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Tags donald trump , Jeff Sessions , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations

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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:12 PM   #161
sunmaster14
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Just the ones with the highest likelihood of making Heil Trumpers squirm trying to make excuses for this too.
Are you admitting to spamming then?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:16 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Are you admitting to spamming then?
No, if I were admitting to spamming, I'd say something like "I'm admitting to spamming".

So, sunmaster14...how many people in and around the Trump Administration does this make who have been in communication with Russian officials and been, shall we say, less than honest about it now?

EDIT: Heck, how many has it been just today?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:17 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I'm pretty sure Sessions doesn't do much in the way of intelligence - he's mostly law enforcement. As for sharing intelligence, I'm sure they're more interested in Trump than Sessions.
And I'm pretty sure that the agency primarily responsible for domestic counterintelligence reports to him.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:40 PM   #164
sunmaster14
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
No, I were admitting to spamming, I'd say something like "I'm admitting to spamming".

So, sunmaster14...how many people in and around the Trump Administration does this make who have been in communication with Russian officials and been, shall we say, less than honest about it now?
Two?

Quote:
EDIT: Heck, how many has it been just today?
One?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:44 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
And I'm pretty sure that the agency primarily responsible for domestic counterintelligence reports to him.
The FBI reports to Sessions, but the DHS has their own Secretary of Homeland Security who reports to the president. Since Jan 20th, that would be John Kelly.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:46 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Now that I've explained why your position is wrong, do you understand the issue properly?
The post of yours I responded to was #46. Mine was #55. This is your first post since #46. You literally didn't even post, but you think you've now explained why my position is wrong?

Quote:
This adherence to toxic pedantry ("he lied, he LIED!!!") is silly and immature. But I'll spell it out just in case. There is a lie that is a misstatement of facts. There is a lie that attempts to mislead. Consider the difference between the two and recognize we are not Vulcans, but human beings.

Do you really want to cripple our national government by swinging the pedant sword? Really?
I have not communicated with you that Sessions lied...

I didn't lie, I meant in my capacity as a magical elf of the forgotten realms.


Back to being serious... Okay let's break this down. Sessions meets with the Russian ambassador in September. He knows what a contentious issue this is, and he is specifically prompted about communications with Russia by Franken. This doesn't seem like something one would forget but let's just assume he did. Or let's even assume he choose really poorly when he said "... I did not have communications with the Russians".

After the testimony, Sessions and staff review it and can clarify anything that was misstated. They did not. They left it exactly as is. Once this story broke, Sessions could have shown something from the meeting to show it was in his official capacity of the committee. Maybe he has done so since originally posting in this thread but not that I'm aware of.

Either he lied, as in attempted to mislead. Or he and his staff are incompetent. I think one is more likely than the other but either way he should resign. Sound good? Btw, you can't claim this is partisan BS because I was just as hard on Clinton and Lynch. If this is the bar we set, then people can lie about anything and just claim it was a misstatement.

Quote:
ETA: Go all in and commit. Does the difference between Sessions being an effective AG and not boil down to how he answered that question? If he had answered differently, all would be happiness and joy? Hardly. This is just party politics and "What can we throw at them next?"
I still wouldn't like him for some of his positions, but I wouldn't have said he lied under oath. Again, I hold both parties to my standard. You know I didn't vote for either Clinton or Trump right? Party politics is ********, at least that we can agree on.

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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:47 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
No, I were admitting to spamming, I'd say something like "I'm admitting to spamming".

So, sunmaster14...how many people in and around the Trump Administration does this make who have been in communication with Russian officials and been, shall we say, less than honest about it now?

EDIT: Heck, how many has it been just today?
Problem is that Sunmaster see NOTHING WRONG OR EVEN QUESTIONABLE with all those contacts with Russians.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 04:52 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Problem is that Sunmaster see NOTHING WRONG OR EVEN QUESTIONABLE with all those contacts with Russians.
Someone should tell Sunmaster that the mandarins at 10 Downing Street won't see things the same way. I'd imagine there's one name going through their minds at the moment - Kim Philby.

And Britain's twitchiness is likely to be echoed across Canada, Australia, New Zealand and beyond.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:00 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Two?



One?
Your numbers are off, but let's set that aside for now. Why are you okay with there being any people in and around the Trump Administration who have been in communication with Russian officials and been less than honest about it, much less (by your own count) more than one?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:05 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
The FBI reports to Sessions, but the DHS has their own Secretary of Homeland Security who reports to the president. Since Jan 20th, that would be John Kelly.
Which is fine, except that DHS doesn't handle, for example, the prosecution of spy cases...or any other cases, for that matter. There's a reason Sessions had no choice but to bow out of the relevant investigation(s). He's now a suspect.

This is turning out to be just about everything some of us expected out of this first 100 days.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:13 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Are you going to post this nothingburger in every thread?
Channeling your inner Cruz ?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:18 PM   #172
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A useful tool for keeping up to date with the Sessions Situation

http://www.hassessionsresignedyet.com/index.html
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:19 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Problem is that Sunmaster see NOTHING WRONG OR EVEN QUESTIONABLE with all those contacts with Russians.
People are allowed to talk to Russians.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:31 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Sessions seemed "old man" confused. Not encouraging.
I find it encouraging. Trump's AG is an enfeebled chipmunk - I like it. I did not actually watch.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:33 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I find it encouraging. Trump's AG is an enfeebled chipmunk - I like it. I did not actually watch.
https://twitter.com/darth/status/837409884912046081
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:39 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Back to being serious... Okay let's break this down. Sessions meets with the Russian ambassador in September. He knows what a contentious issue this is, and he is specifically prompted about communications with Russia by Franken. This doesn't seem like something one would forget but let's just assume he did. Or let's even assume he choose really poorly when he said "... I did not have communications with the Russians".

After the testimony, Sessions and staff review it and can clarify anything that was misstated. They did not. They left it exactly as is. Once this story broke, Sessions could have shown something from the meeting to show it was in his official capacity of the committee. Maybe he has done so since originally posting in this thread but not that I'm aware of.

Either he lied, as in attempted to mislead. Or he and his staff are incompetent. I think one is more likely than the other but either way he should resign. Sound good? Btw, you can't claim this is partisan BS because I was just as hard on Clinton and Lynch. If this is the bar we set, then people can lie about anything and just claim it was a misstatement.
That is a very clear and concise position - thank you.

Here's the way I view it. I think he's answering the question about whether or not he has any knowledge of the Trump campaign dealing with the Russians in the context of influencing the election. He mentions he was viewed as a surrogate and then says (inartfully) that, although he (Sessions) was viewed as a surrogate for the Trump campaign, he (Sessions) didn't have any dealings with the Russians about campaign issues.

I took his response to be something akin to: I don't know if I'd prosecute because I don't know anything about dirty dealings with the Russians.

I grant that my view is not the only possible reading of the interaction.

Quote:
I still wouldn't like him for some of his positions, but I wouldn't have said he lied under oath. Again, I hold both parties to my standard. You know I didn't vote for either Clinton or Trump right? Party politics is ********, at least that we can agree on.
Yes, I think we can agree on that. It gets out of hand sometimes. If Sessions is a traitor, I hope he gets nailed for it. It's just that we seem to be going through a lot of people, trying to staff the administration. That can't be good for the country.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:39 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I think what's happening is exactly what Putin wanted: Ineffectual chaos.
That's what Bannon wants to see too, if I am reading this week's events correctly.

Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
With the nutbars currently running the executive branch, Putin at least makes it more difficult for there to be any rapid intervention by the US when he decides to deploy his army to take over another neighboring state.
Trump would ignore that anyway.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:41 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Love the ferret.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:57 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
That is a very clear and concise position - thank you.

Here's the way I view it. I think he's answering the question about whether or not he has any knowledge of the Trump campaign dealing with the Russians in the context of influencing the election. He mentions he was viewed as a surrogate and then says (inartfully) that, although he (Sessions) was viewed as a surrogate for the Trump campaign, he (Sessions) didn't have any dealings with the Russians about campaign issues.

I took his response to be something akin to: I don't know if I'd prosecute because I don't know anything about dirty dealings with the Russians.

I grant that my view is not the only possible reading of the interaction.
Fair enough.

I wonder if maybe it was an optics thing. Like he thought it would look bad admitting to meeting with the Russian ambassador even if nothing nefarious occurred.

I'm glad that he has recused himself and we'll have to see if it goes any farther than that or if any more information comes to light.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 05:59 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Trump would ignore that anyway.
Probably. That's why I consider the continuing chaos a bonus for Putin. The morons in the executive branch can't make any of their lies stick.

Consider how long the Bush Administration managed to keep up the illusion that Iraq was invaded over WMDs. The current collection of buffoons wouldn't be able to keep that kind of lie going for the full length of a UN speech. They'd probably present satellite images with the word "fake" printed on them.

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Old 2nd March 2017, 06:00 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Fair enough.

I wonder if maybe it was an optics thing. Like he thought it would look bad admitting to meeting with the Russian ambassador even if nothing nefarious occurred.

I'm glad that he has recused himself and we'll have to see if it goes any farther than that or if any more information comes to light.
Next up: Rick Perry.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 06:28 PM   #182
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ms-lies-russia
Quote:
The second occasion was in the senator’s office on 8 September, exactly one month before the presidential election and amid accusations of a Russian cyber-attack. Sessions said Kislyak had requested the meeting and the senator’s staff made the arrangements. During the meeting, Sessions said they discussed his first trip to Russia in 1993, their religious convictions, terrorism and Ukraine, but he said that he did not recall “any specific political discussions”.
Quite apart from anything else this raises questions. For instance, what reason did Kislyak give for requesting a meeting? Not, surely, to discuss their religious convictions. Presumably the request is a matter of record : might it be subject to an FOI request?

The argument that "ambassadors meet politicians, Sessions was a politician, ergo nothing to see here" is obviously spurious, on a par with "He can't release his tax-return because it's being audited". No doubt further detail will emerge.

One thing is beyond question : the administration has handled this very clumsily. Fingers crossed they'll get even more cack-handed : best result is Trump has a meltdown.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 06:42 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ms-lies-russia

Quite apart from anything else this raises questions. For instance, what reason did Kislyak give for requesting a meeting? Not, surely, to discuss their religious convictions. Presumably the request is a matter of record : might it be subject to an FOI request?

The argument that "ambassadors meet politicians, Sessions was a politician, ergo nothing to see here" is obviously spurious, on a par with "He can't release his tax-return because it's being audited". No doubt further detail will emerge.

One thing is beyond question : the administration has handled this very clumsily. Fingers crossed they'll get even more cack-handed : best result is Trump has a meltdown.
Oh come on. Sept 8 was TWO months before the election, not one. If the Guardian can't even get something simple right, how can we believe anything else they say?

#fakenews
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Old 2nd March 2017, 06:46 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Oh come on. Sept 8 was TWO months before the election, not one. If the Guardian can't even get something simple right, how can we believe anything else they say?

#fakenews
From the Guardian:
Quote:
The second occasion was in the senator’s office on 8 September, exactly two months before the presidential election and amid accusations of a Russian cyber-attack.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 07:03 PM   #185
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Why would Sessions recuse himself based on fake new?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 07:26 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
From the Guardian:

Tell Capel Dodgers. He's the one who quoted them
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Old 2nd March 2017, 07:47 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Tell Capel Dodgers. He's the one who quoted them
Now, now people don't fall out. You're all Comrades at the end of the day. For the next four years at least.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 07:56 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Tell Capel Dodgers. He's the one who quoted them
It was what it was. Now it is what it is. It's like the tide, you can't explain it.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 07:56 PM   #189
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The first quote by Capel says one month, and gingers says two months. Obviously fake.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 07:57 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's been mentioned in various threads.

IMO there's enough wriggle-room in his statements so that he hasn't actually lied.

Others have suggested that he was merely fulfilling his obligations as a senior member of the senate defense committee.

If he's important enough to Trump and/or the GOP then he will escape serious censure.

If he isn't, then he may be thrown under the bus.
Things move fast around here, so this may be addressed but I saw that it wasn't mentioned in the mini-discussion the the President Trump thread....

The Beeb mentioned yesterday that a journalist (not their own - I think it was NPR, but not sure) actually polled the other members of his committee and with responses from almost 80% of the committee members, not a one of them has ever seen a need to contact the Russian Ambassador on "Committee Business".

My extrapolation of that factoid is "What Committee Business, Mr. Secretary"? Which bill were you examining that required input from the Russian ambassador or from his superiors in Moscow? That should be easy to identify. And then ask the same question of all the members of the committee at that time.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:10 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
No, if I were admitting to spamming, I'd say something like "I'm admitting to spamming".

So, sunmaster14...how many people in and around the Trump Administration does this make who have been in communication with Russian officials and been, shall we say, less than honest about it now?

EDIT: Heck, how many has it been just today?
Maybe just as many who were in the Obama administration?

Pathetic!
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:13 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
If by your side you mean the entire country ... spot on.
Was election night a dream for you?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:14 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Sessions needs to resign before his presence starts to damage America's relations with her allies, if it isn't already.

To anybody in this thread who's defending Sessions - your excuses might fly in Trump's heartlands, they might even silence Democrats, but they won't fly among the intelligence services of the other Five Eyes countries. Get rid of him, before the Brits, Aussies, etc, start cutting your guys out of the loop.
How ridiculous! We are the loop!
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:15 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Y'all, I apologize. i got so excited to do racism that i slipped up and did a dang perjury!
We're used to it from the left, no need to apologize.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:20 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
How ridiculous! We are the loop!
No you're not. You have the edge when it comes to technology, but the British have the edge with HUMINT. Your country needs the rest of the loop, so don't get too arrogant.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:20 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Were they discussing that reset button, or cheering the Russians on to divulge more dirt on loser Hills?
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:23 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
No you're not. You have the edge when it comes to technology, but the British have the edge with HUMINT. Your country needs the rest of the loop, so don't get too arrogant.
Yeah sure from your little island.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:28 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yeah sure from your little island.
I expect you prefer larger land masses? Each to their own, comrade.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:30 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Was election night a dream for you?

Goodness, man, there's no doubt that the Republicans have a great upper hand now, but these things change you know. There's not been a period in which one party dominated so greatly that it never swung the other way. Of course, there's always a first time, but I don't think that you have good evidence that this is it, especially given that the current President is a Republican pretty much in the same sense that I'm a platypus.

Go ahead and gloat, if you must, but at some date in the future, the tide will turn again. I'd like to think that it's in 2018, but maybe not. Maybe it's later.

Mind, I'm not opposed to principled Republicans. I will disagree on this or that issue, but find other issues of agreement. I am deeply opposed to Donald Trump, the most pathetic candidate in my lifetime, with the possible exception of Larouche.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 08:33 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
I expect you prefer larger land masses? Each to their own, comrade.
Yeah, the smaller ones don't seem to know their place.
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