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Tags donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 9th May 2019, 10:12 AM   #281
theprestige
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
As a memento, his underlings might steal the "T" keys off all of the white house keyboards. Or, if the CT forum is to be believed, the Q keys.
Even that would be within the norms of presidential behavior:

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/12/u...gao-finds.html
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:24 AM   #282
autumn1971
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I really think a lot of people are overestimating a large minority of enlisted soldiers. There’s a to. Of racist trash that leave the forces even more convinced that violence against others is the absolute correct idea.

Once home, the other is anyone who disagrees with whatever political opinion they’ve been indoctrinated with.

Trump would have quite a large army willing to kill for him
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:24 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Even that would be within the norms of presidential behavior:

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/12/u...gao-finds.html
Pretty sure that's why Carlitos mentioned it.

But the fact that it was done during the transition from Clinton to W doesn't put it within the norms of behavior (much less presidential behavior, since it's not clear that Clinton encouraged it). Indeed, were it within the norms of behavior, I don't suppose we'd still be talking about it. It was an outlier, a case of bad behavior not normal or expected behavior.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:39 AM   #284
theprestige
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Pretty sure that's why Carlitos mentioned it.

But the fact that it was done during the transition from Clinton to W doesn't put it within the norms of behavior (much less presidential behavior, since it's not clear that Clinton encouraged it). Indeed, were it within the norms of behavior, I don't suppose we'd still be talking about it. It was an outlier, a case of bad behavior not normal or expected behavior.
I'm open to the argument that Trump might behave unusually badly upon leaving office - as badly as Bill Clinton behaved.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:43 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Even that would be within the norms of presidential behavior:

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/12/u...gao-finds.html
I was indeed referring to that. I figured that "USA Politics" fans would get the reference.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:06 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Is that news to you? Because already there have been stories coming out of relevant documents that Nunes didn’t get from the FBI. For example:
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...air-trump-dirt
Oh brother, that article just repeats GOP's false narrative. Once again the Men in Black flash pen is wiping memories.
Quote:
meeting with FBI informant Christopher Steele shows the Hillary Clinton campaign-funded British intelligence operative admitted that his research was political and facing an Election Day deadline.

And that confession occurred 10 days before the FBI used Steele’s now-discredited dossier to justify securing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant to surveil former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page and the campaign’s ties to Russia.
Steele admits? Seriously? He worked for the GOP, then for the Clinton campaign. He's a hired investigator, not some Democrat producing lies for Clinton. He isn't even a US citizen. Though by now I suspect his opinion of Trump is quite dismal.

And over and over it has been very clear, the Papadopolus leak initiated the investigation and was an important part of the FISA warrant request. The dossier was inicluded and it was identified to the judge in the warrant request as coming from a partisan hired investigator.

And beyond all that, [write it down so when your brain is wiped again you can remember this], NOTHING in the dossier has been discredited. Two things have yet to be confirmed, the Prague trip and the pee tape, though the FBI may indeed have evidence who went to Prague that the public has not seen unless it's in the redacted part of Mueller's report.


Stop echoing right wing falsehoods.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:10 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I really think a lot of people are overestimating a large minority of enlisted soldiers. There’s a to. Of racist trash that leave the forces even more convinced that violence against others is the absolute correct idea.

Once home, the other is anyone who disagrees with whatever political opinion they’ve been indoctrinated with.

Trump would have quite a large army willing to kill for him
This is paranoid to the point of delusion.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:13 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
This is paranoid to the point of delusion.
is it?

There a number of militia who have all but sworn allegiance to him; and many ICE agents seem way too comfortable with his calls to violence against migrants and breaking the law for him in other ways.
No reason to assume that the military is entirely immune to his authoritarian charms.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:14 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
I have a (much) bigger concern.

Suppose Trump loses in 2020, he rages and storms on Twitter for two months, but achieves nothing. The Senate Republicans tell him there is nothing they can do, the military tells them to **** off. He knows he's in legal hot water, the teasing of protesters about seeing Trump in an orange suit. A semi-competent lawyer still willing to work for him tells him they're right and recommends a plea bargain.

So what does he do? Easy. On the night prior to inauguration he jumps into Air Force One and flies to Russia. He steps off the plane and asks for a political asylum in Russia.

He spends his final years spewing out verbal vomits against Democrats on Twitter and giving interviews about corrupt Democrat witch hunts in the US and so on and so forth.

If that's not scary enough imagine him bringing a briefcase loaded with sensitive goodies too.

McHrozni
None of that fits with his pathologic narcissism. He is incapable of believing he'd be convicted.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:16 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
is it?

There a number of militia who have all but sworn allegiance to him; and many ICE agents seem way too comfortable with his calls to violence against migrants and breaking the law for him in other ways.
No reason to assume that the military is entirely immune to his authoritarian charms.

Yes.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:21 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
...

I bet that in his final weeks, he'll stay true to form, and do far less damage than he could, before leaving leaving office.
I picture the family stealing the silverware.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:22 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I really think a lot of people are overestimating a large minority of enlisted soldiers. There’s a to. Of racist trash that leave the forces even more convinced that violence against others is the absolute correct idea.

Once home, the other is anyone who disagrees with whatever political opinion they’ve been indoctrinated with.

Trump would have quite a large army willing to kill for him
I disagree, I have friends who are current and ex military, one has been off since high school. However except for that one out of six I beleive that while they may of may not support Trump, they all take COTUS very seriously I do not think they would support the subversion of COTUS
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:32 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
is it?

There a number of militia who have all but sworn allegiance to him; and many ICE agents seem way too comfortable with his calls to violence against migrants and breaking the law for him in other ways.
No reason to assume that the military is entirely immune to his authoritarian charms.
There is significantly less reason to think they'd abandon their oaths and turn their guns on civilians for loyalty to the orange bafoon.

What percentage of ICE agents have broken the law for Trump?
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:43 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
There is significantly less reason to think they'd abandon their oaths and turn their guns on civilians for loyalty to the orange bafoon.

What percentage of ICE agents have broken the law for Trump?
They don't have any reason to break the law. Trump has given them permission to do whatever they want. If they have to choose between Trump and the Constitution, it might not be an easy call for them.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:40 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I was indeed referring to that. I figured that "USA Politics" fans would get the reference. : thumbsup :
I figured.

The funny thing is, I stopped to make sure it actually happened, and wasn't just me remembering some false GOP accusation as fact.

It would have been awkward if I'd said, "remember that time Bill Clinton's staff did some nasty and unpresidential **** in the White House," and then got schooled by a Snopes article?

But it turns out that Clinton's staff really did do some nasty and unpresidential **** in the White House, and our leading educator on this topic is the New York Times.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:42 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh brother, that article just repeats GOP's false narrative.
Way to miss the point of the link. Regardless of what you think of the significance of those documents, they are related to the investigation, and the Senate inquiry never turned them up. It's evidence that Barr may have access to information that the Senate never did.

ETA: oh, and BTW, quoted from the Mueller report: "At that time, Cohen understood Congress's interest in him to be focused on the allegations in the Steele reporting concerning a meeting Cohen allegedly had with Russian officials in Prague during the campaign. Cohen had never traveled to Prague and was not concerned about those allegations, which he believed were provably false."

So yeah, that claim is bull ****.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:46 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
They don't have any reason to break the law. Trump has given them permission to do whatever they want. If they have to choose between Trump and the Constitution, it might not be an easy call for them.
I don’t think the officers are in my list of being fully capable of ignoring their oaths, but a hell of a lot of soldiers I know have come back from our present wars completely radicalized. They believe that all Muslims are the enemy and any concession to Muslim civil rights is a betrayal.

In a decade or two this will die down, but right now it is pretty bad where I sit.

All anecdotal, so I know it’s not in the wet an argument worth more than a few grains of salt. Just two cents, take it as you will.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:23 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Way to miss the point of the link. Regardless of what you think of the significance of those documents, they are related to the investigation, and the Senate inquiry never turned them up. It's evidence that Barr may have access to information that the Senate never did.
Way to dodge the facts.

So your complaint is the Senate didn't ask about a false narrative?

Let's look at The Hill article:
Quote:
meeting with FBI informant Christopher Steele shows the Hillary Clinton campaign-funded British intelligence operative admitted that his research was political and facing an Election Day deadline.
How is that some big revelation? It was public knowledge.

Quote:
And that confession occurred 10 days before the FBI used Steele’s now-discredited dossier to justify securing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant to surveil former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page and the campaign’s ties to Russia.
This is an outright lie. The dossier has not been discredited. -- Repeat a lie often enough it comes to be believed.

And calling it "a confession"? What a joke.

Quote:
The memos were unearthed a few days ago through open-records litigation by the conservative group Citizens United.
Ouuuuu, the memos were unearthed by a FOIA request. They were then promptly distorted to claim falsely some deep-state or other nefarious motive going on.

You can hire foreigners to investigate your opponent. What you can't do is hire state operatives and/or use illegally obtained information then trade that information for promised political favors.

Quote:
Kavalec’s notes do not appear to have been provided to the House Intelligence Committee during its Russia probe, according to former Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.). "They tried to hide a lot of documents from us during our investigation, and it usually turns out there’s a reason for it," Nunes told me. Senate and House Judiciary investigators told me they did not know about them, even though they investigated Steele’s behavior in 2017-18.
Surprise surprise, this whole faux conspiracy comes from Nunes.

We see the memo. There are no revelations. I have no idea if or why the FBI would want to block it. And you can't easily search past the right-wing bombardment with CTs and other nonsense to get to an actual answer.

Why would the FBI give a **** that Steele said who he was working for? It wasn't secret.


Are you arguing a deep state CT here involving the FBI?

What do you think the FBI was hiding?

And more importantly why?


In case you missed, it the FBI made the FISA warrant public.

FBI releases FISA warrant for former Trump campaign aide Carter Page
Quote:
The documents released Saturday appear to discount claims made by some Republicans that the FBI failed to properly disclose sources of information used to seek the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant, and it shows that authorities used other sources of information besides the Steele "dossier" in the application, which was granted by a judge. ...

The warrant backs up a claim made by Democrats in Congress that the FBI did notify the judges of where some of the information came from — Christopher Steele, the former British spy who drafted the unverified "dossier" about Trump, and Steele’s associates.

And it backs up the claim that the FBI used information from other sources that were wholly uninvolved with Steele, including published reports.
Let's see, does unverified mean discredited?


We are back to the same ****. If the dossier's source was on the FISA warrant request, just what is it you think is incriminating?

BTW, we know Barr has information the public doesn't have, and the only reason to fight so hard to hide it pretty much says it incriminates Trump.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:35 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Way to dodge the facts.

So your complaint is the Senate didn't ask about a false narrative?
I'm not making any complaint. I observed the fact that Barr has access to more information about the origins of the Mueller investigation than the Senate does. This should be obvious, but it was contested. That link is one example of documents which were relevant to the Senate investigation but which the Senate never obtained. That is the full extent of my purpose in posting that link, and nothing you have responded with indicates that this is wrong.

Quote:
BTW, we know Barr has information the public doesn't have
Tell that to The Great Zaganza.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:42 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Way to miss the point of the link. Regardless of what you think of the significance of those documents, they are related to the investigation, and the Senate inquiry never turned them up. It's evidence that Barr may have access to information that the Senate never did.

ETA: oh, and BTW, quoted from the Mueller report: "At that time, Cohen understood Congress's interest in him to be focused on the allegations in the Steele reporting concerning a meeting Cohen allegedly had with Russian officials in Prague during the campaign. Cohen had never traveled to Prague and was not concerned about those allegations, which he believed were provably false."

So yeah, that claim is bull ****.
From my post upthread in case you missed it:
Quote:
Two things have yet to be confirmed, the Prague trip and the pee tape, though the FBI may indeed have evidence who went to Prague that the public has not seen unless it's in the redacted part of Mueller's report.
There's an obvious logic flaw in this:
Originally Posted by inZig'spost
"At that time, Cohen understood Congress's interest in him to be focused on the allegations in the Steele reporting concerning a meeting Cohen allegedly had with Russian officials in Prague during the campaign.
Can you guess what that flaw is?

Besides assuming Cohen wasn't still lying about his Prague trip, there's nothing there that says it was the sole reason the FBI was looking at Cohen. The man is in jail, surely that is not only because he did or didn't go to Prague. Seems to me there was that little paying off women Trump ****** among other things.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:44 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I don’t think the officers are in my list of being fully capable of ignoring their oaths, but a hell of a lot of soldiers I know have come back from our present wars completely radicalized. They believe that all Muslims are the enemy and any concession to Muslim civil rights is a betrayal.

In a decade or two this will die down, but right now it is pretty bad where I sit.

All anecdotal, so I know it’s not in the wet an argument worth more than a few grains of salt. Just two cents, take it as you will.

There is a stereotype that people who enlist in the military are more likely to come from rural areas, also now known as Trump Country. Where do the guys you know come from? If a lot of military members are visceral Trump supporters, that might raise some questions about where their ultimate loyalties would lie.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:45 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm not making any complaint. I observed the fact that Barr has access to more information about the origins of the Mueller investigation than the Senate does. This should be obvious, but it was contested. That link is one example of documents which were relevant to the Senate investigation but which the Senate never obtained. That is the full extent of my purpose in posting that link, and nothing you have responded with indicates that this is wrong.....
More blatant dodging. It was your link.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:49 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
I disagree, I have friends who are current and ex military, one has been off since high school. However except for that one out of six I beleive that while they may of may not support Trump, they all take COTUS very seriously I do not think they would support the subversion of COTUS
Any authoritarian trying to take control of the U.S. would almost certainly claim to be doing so in defence of the constitution. Many willing idiots would contort their beliefs to match - no matter how obviously unconstitutional such a power grab might be.

The actual constitutionality of the power grab would not be questioned by its supporters and would quickly become irrelevant.

That said, I don't think Trump will do any such thing.

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Old 9th May 2019, 01:54 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
More blatant dodging. It was your link.
Of course it was my link. And I just told you why I linked it. You can also follow the conversation back and see what exchange led to me posting that link.

But you haven't paid any attention, and so you're still confused.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:57 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Besides assuming Cohen wasn't still lying about his Prague trip
Do you honestly think Mueller didn't check?
Do you honestly think that there aren't records that would indicate the truth?
Have you ever even traveled outside the country? Do you not know how it works?

Quote:
there's nothing there that says it was the sole reason the FBI was looking at Cohen.
Not relevant to the claim.
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Old 9th May 2019, 02:06 PM   #306
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Double post.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
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Old 9th May 2019, 02:45 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
There is a stereotype that people who enlist in the military are more likely to come from rural areas, also now known as Trump Country. Where do the guys you know come from? If a lot of military members are visceral Trump supporters, that might raise some questions about where their ultimate loyalties would lie.
There's also as stereotype of Polish people. Do you or anyone else have evidence other than, I know a guy or I'm pretty sure active duty military folks are evil and stupid?

Seriously, this thread belongs in a 9/11 truth forum not a skeptics forum. Its all conspiracy fantasy.

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Old 9th May 2019, 03:03 PM   #308
autumn1971
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
There is a stereotype that people who enlist in the military are more likely to come from rural areas, also now known as Trump Country. Where do the guys you know come from? If a lot of military members are visceral Trump supporters, that might raise some questions about where their ultimate loyalties would lie.
The officers I know are from all over. The enlisted veterans are mostly rural southerners
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Old 9th May 2019, 03:06 PM   #309
alfaniner
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I picture the family stealing the silverware.
Nah, silverware would be too pedestrian. Besides, they've already replaced it with goldware.
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Old 9th May 2019, 03:07 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
That bit about the Nixon staff not following orders form Nixon is quite true, and it was due to the fact that Nixon was often drunk during the last few months of the Watergate crisis.

And for all of the various Trump faults, at least Trump is not a drunk. So when Trump screws up, it is a screw up that is made by a person who is sober.
Two things worth remembering: You can't believe a damn word he says, and there are rumors of Adderall abuse. I've personally heard him rant on Fox News in a manner consistent with a cocaine binge.
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Old 9th May 2019, 03:10 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Even that would be within the norms of presidential behavior:

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/12/u...gao-finds.html
Protip: You are confusing "Happened Once Before" with "Normal".

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Old 9th May 2019, 03:34 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Protip: You are confusing "Happened Once Before" with "Normal".

You're Welcome!
Thank you. As I said, I'm open to the argument that Donald Trump might behave unusually bad - as bad as Clinton behaved, even.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:10 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Of course it was my link. And I just told you why I linked it. You can also follow the conversation back and see what exchange led to me posting that link.

But you haven't paid any attention, and so you're still confused.
Not falling for this crap. You read my post, you can't address the falsehoods you are promoting. Pretending it was some special context is a dodge.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:11 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Thank you. As I said, I'm open to the argument that Donald Trump might behave unusually bad - as bad as Clinton behaved, even.
But you're damned determined to willfully ignore that Trump is worse. For example, please remind me of when Clinton declared a National Emergency to bypass Congress' authority. Or when he fomented anger toward the press. Or when he separated children from their parents at the border. Or when he tried to fire the Special Counsel. Or when he lied 10,000 times in a span of just over two years. Or when he threatened (in California's case) or actually did (in Puerto Rico's case) to withhold federal aid for a natural disaster. Or refuse to comply with Congress' investigative authority? Or said of neo-Nazis that "Some of them are good people". Or took a foreign adversary's leader word over his own intelligence services? Or destroyed records of conversations with that same leader? Or wantonly gave security clearances to over 30 people that failed to qualify for security clearances? Or whined and bitched about a war hero's funeral? Or unilaterally pulled us out of international agreements, such as the Paris Agreement or the Iran Deal?

Just trying to get you to finally open your eyes, bro.

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Old 9th May 2019, 04:13 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do you honestly think Mueller didn't check?
Where did I say that? I said it isn't relevant.
Quote:
Do you honestly think that there aren't records that would indicate the truth?
That's absurd and also nothing I said.
Quote:
Have you ever even traveled outside the country? Do you not know how it works?
Well there you go, you can't address the fact you are promoting falsehoods so you turn to insults.


Quote:
Not relevant to the claim.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:15 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
....
Seriously, this thread belongs in a 9/11 truth forum not a skeptics forum. Its all conspiracy fantasy.
The last few pages are almost certainly in CT-land. Especially that Nunes letter.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:19 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Nah, silverware would be too pedestrian. Besides, they've already replaced it with goldware.
Trump loves counterfeit paintings he pretends are real, they could probably get a couple valuable paintings out the back door.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:25 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
There's also as stereotype of Polish people. Do you or anyone else have evidence other than, I know a guy or I'm pretty sure active duty military folks are evil and stupid?
....

Do you think "rural" means "evil and stupid?" I don't. But it does likely mean a different worldview from someone who grew up in the cities and suburbs.

The fact is that U.S. military service is entirely voluntary and has been since 1973. It would follow that people choosing that particular course have characteristics in common with each other that they might not have with others who choose different paths. I would bet that, say, civil engineers might have more in common with each other than they have with, say, kindergarten teachers or gardeners. The difference is that the military is entrusted with unique responsibilities, so what motivates military members is of interest to everyone.

And here's something that says that, at least during the Iraq War, a disproportionate percentage of recruits came from depressed rural areas. There's not much reason to think that would have changed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110302528.html
https://livinghistoryfarm.org/farmin...s/life_07.html
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:43 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Do you think "rural" means "evil and stupid?" I don't. But it does likely mean a different worldview from someone who grew up in the cities and suburbs.

The fact is that U.S. military service is entirely voluntary and has been since 1973. It would follow that people choosing that particular course have characteristics in common with each other that they might not have with others who choose different paths. I would bet that, say, civil engineers might have more in common with each other than they have with, say, kindergarten teachers or gardeners. The difference is that the military is entrusted with unique responsibilities, so what motivates military members is of interest to everyone.

And here's something that says that, at least during the Iraq War, a disproportionate percentage of recruits came from depressed rural areas. There's not much reason to think that would have changed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110302528.html
https://livinghistoryfarm.org/farmin...s/life_07.html
Reread what he said; I really don't see how you can honestly get that from what he wrote. Looks to me like he was dismissing that point of view.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:55 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Where did I say that? I said it isn't relevant.
That's absurd and also nothing I said.
Well there you go, you can't address the fact you are promoting falsehoods so you turn to insults.


The Mueller report explicitly states Cohen never went to Prague. You were wrong. You promoted a falsehood, not me
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