[Continuation] General UK Politics III - Dumb and Dumber - Page 14

lobosrul5 · 28th September 2022, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

His big problems are:

being single

being on minimum wage / low paid

expecting to be a first-time buyer in London.

Back in the day, whilst interest rates did indeed go up to 15% (but only for one day; it soon dropped back to 10%) in the '90's, prior to that (going backto the seventies and eighties) the average mortgage applicant was only expected to show their earnings as apx 3:1 the value of the property. Nowadays, whilst interest rates have been very low (<2%) OTOH mortgage providers now expect up to five times one's salary minimum, on the assumption you are in a partnership, and thus able to afford the average high house prices today. This assumption immediately makes it hard for a single person or someone who doesn't want to share. In addition, even if he had the requisite deposit, his earnings wouldn't buy him anywhere in London, with the housing market there grossly overpriced IMO. Renting won't help this chap as rents will rise along with mortgages to meet the landlords' costs. This chap is better off finding a place near Norfolk whilst there are gains to be made on stamp duty and sit it out.

According to the link:

ibid

So, he'll need to ensure he can cope with an extra £190 pcm on a mortgage, together with another £100 pcm...£200 pcm...? extra on energy bills in the coming years, on top of that. Otherwise it is back to living with Mum and Dad for many younger people.

30 year fixed rate in the US is now 6.5%, and only that low if you buy points. I could just barely afford my house at that rate. I'm working out that if I moved to an equivalent house the interest portion of my payment would actually more than double, and my property taxes would also nearly double (because they can only rise by 3%/year for current owners). I could afford it, but my disposable income would be down to maybe $400 or $500 a month.

Originally Posted by Vixen

Also known as, Russian roulette or casino gambling. Just chuck everything onto the red square and hope for the best.

Yeah, with 6 rounds loaded.

Vixen · 28th September 2022, 09:42 AM

That is the problem with Truss' and Kwarteng's naked 'small state' ideology and Ayn Rand style capitalism. What is needed for the position of Chancellor of the Exchequer is someone who is not afraid to tell the boss her ideas are poppycock, and someone who is a hard headed economist or scientist, not someone driven by the 'Britannia Unbound' fantasy of the heroic entrepreneur against the world. It doesn't work like that.

It's like the man who puts his entire week's wages on a horse race.

The Don · 28th September 2022, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

That is the problem with Truss' and Kwarteng's naked 'small state' ideology and Ayn Rand style capitalism. What is needed for the position of Chancellor of the Exchequer is someone who is not afraid to tell the boss her ideas are poppycock, and someone who is a hard headed economist or scientist, not someone driven by the 'Britannia Unbound' fantasy of the heroic entrepreneur against the world. It doesn't work like that.

It's like the man who puts his entire week's wages on a horse race.

Except he's putting someone else's wages on a horse race and stands to collect the winnings in the unlikely event that Dobbin romps home.

GlennB · 28th September 2022, 11:02 AM

The Tory conference starts Saturday. Now it could actually be fun to watch

KDLarsen · 28th September 2022, 11:09 AM

In the "What on earth are the smoking in the House of Lords"-category, we have Tory peer and Brexit architect Daniel Hannan:

Quote:

What we have seen since Friday is partly a market adjustment to the increased probability that Sir Keir Starmer will win in 2024 or 2025 – leading to higher taxes, higher spending, and a weaker economy.
...
Some pundits don’t like Truss, others have never forgiven the Tories for Brexit, yet others are horrified by the idea that growth, rather than equality, should be the government’s priority.

Fair enough. But let’s be clear-headed about what is happening.

https://conservativehome.com/2022/09...h-of-tax-cuts/

catsmate · 28th September 2022, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

That’s 3 or 4 stops past.

Three now, it used to be two.

Garrison · 28th September 2022, 12:04 PM

And Truss reacts exactly as predicted:

Draw up plan for cuts, government departments told

Quote:

Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Chris Philp, will write to government departments in the coming days about finding spending efficiencies.

Of course efficiency savings are the perpetual cover for cuts, because our public services are clearly awash with money. And if there are efficiency savings to be had, why has it taken the Tories 12 years to look for them? And yes, that was a rhetorical question.

GlennB · 28th September 2022, 12:13 PM

Yesterday Truss was 11-1 to be replaced as PM in 2022. Now 7-1. I had a crafty £2 at 11s, so might clean up here!

Unfortunately my winnings could be worth less than £2 of today's money, so maybe I should have spent it on rice and beans?

lomiller · 28th September 2022, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

According to this BBC commentator, Kwasi Kwarteng must U-turn on tax or cut spending.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63049044

I think we all know what they would prefer to do

Stimulus (eg tax cuts) is pure stupidity when the central bank is restricting money supplies to control inflation. Monetary policy far outweighs fiscal policy in terms of it's impact so of the BoE is tightening money supplies to reduce ecnomic activity and inflation along with it, it WILL win out over fiscal policy aimed at increasing economic activity (and inflation along with it). In the end all you get are higher interest rates and deficits.

Mojo · 28th September 2022, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Three now, it used to be two.

Depends on whether it’s East or Heathway.

lomiller · 28th September 2022, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

"Am told the BoE were responding to a “run dynamic” on pension funds - a wholesale equivalent of the run which destroyed Northern Rock.
Had they not intervened, there would have been mass insolvencies of pension funds by THIS AFTERNOON."

linky from Sky News

If the BoE has really been forced into increasing money supplies to keep the financial system stable expect even more inflation over the next couple years.

a_unique_person · 28th September 2022, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Garrison

And Truss reacts exactly as predicted:

Draw up plan for cuts, government departments told

Of course efficiency savings are the perpetual cover for cuts, because our public services are clearly awash with money. And if there are efficiency savings to be had, why has it taken the Tories 12 years to look for them? And yes, that was a rhetorical question.

Blanket cuts don't increase efficiency, they make efficiency worse. It's like saving money by leaving a wheel off a car. Efficiency is a laudable goal but it doesn't happen magically.

GlennB · 28th September 2022, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Blanket cuts don't increase efficiency, they make efficiency worse. It's like saving money by leaving a wheel off a car. Efficiency is a laudable goal but it doesn't happen magically.

Yeah, but it 'sounds good'. The last several years of UK government have been all about sounding good.

The Don · 28th September 2022, 10:34 PM

...and remember, Truss also has to find an additional 157bn to spend on the military.

Filippo Lippi · 28th September 2022, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Blanket cuts don't increase efficiency, they make efficiency worse. It's like saving money by leaving a wheel off a car. Efficiency is a laudable goal but it doesn't happen magically.

They've been making ~~efficiency savings~~ cuts for 12 years, that's why we have so many food banks, starving children, and an NHS in crisis

The Don · 28th September 2022, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi

They've been making ~~efficiency savings~~ cuts for 12 years, that's why we have so many food banks, starving children, and an NHS in crisis

It beggars belief that there's huge amounts of waste that can be addressed in order to make the tens of billions of pounds of savings when successive Conservative and coalition governments have been implementing austerity programmes for over a decade.

Given that most of the individuals are still the same, if those programmes have been unsuccessful for over a decade, why should it be any different now.

Of course what will happen is that budgets will be cut without any clear indication as to where the savings will come which will simply result in reductions in services leading to increases in inequality - which is IMO one of the objectives of the government, to maintain a politically apathetic underclass who can be exploited by the vulture capitalists pulling the strings.

Darat · 29th September 2022, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Stimulus (eg tax cuts) is pure stupidity when the central bank is restricting money supplies to control inflation. Monetary policy far outweighs fiscal policy in terms of it's impact so of the BoE is tightening money supplies to reduce ecnomic activity and inflation along with it, it WILL win out over fiscal policy aimed at increasing economic activity (and inflation along with it). In the end all you get are higher interest rates and deficits.

Especially when there has been no fiscal policy to encourage growth! Removing the top rate of income tax is not a fiscal policy for growth.

Darat · 29th September 2022, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

...and remember, Truss also has to find an additional 157bn to spend on the military.

We should bring back national service!

Lothian · 29th September 2022, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Especially when there has been no fiscal policy to encourage growth! Removing the top rate of income tax is not a fiscal policy for growth.

Au contraire, it grows the wealth of those who were on the top rate.

Filippo Lippi · 29th September 2022, 01:14 AM

The clips of Truss getting taken to the cleaners on numerous BBC local radio stations this morning have been excruciating

wobs · 29th September 2022, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi

The clips of Truss getting taken to the cleaners on numerous BBC local radio stations this morning have been excruciating

I didn't know she'd ventured out to speak to the media. I was going to check my fridge!

Mojo · 29th September 2022, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

It beggars belief that there's huge amounts of waste that can be addressed in order to make the tens of billions of pounds of savings when successive Conservative and coalition governments have been implementing austerity programmes for over a decade.

Given that most of the individuals are still the same, if those programmes have been unsuccessful for over a decade, why should it be any different now.

Of course what will happen is that budgets will be cut without any clear indication as to where the savings will come which will simply result in reductions in services leading to increases in inequality - which is IMO one of the objectives of the government, to maintain a politically apathetic underclass who can be exploited by the vulture capitalists pulling the strings.

Remember when mass unemployment was described as “a price worth paying” for lower inflation?

Filippo Lippi · 29th September 2022, 02:13 AM

Alexander Clarkson on Twitter

Quote:

Liz Truss's Director of Communications, Jason Stein, used to work as Communications Adviser for Prince Andrew until the Maitlis interview

The Don · 29th September 2022, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Remember when mass unemployment was described as “a price worth paying” for lower inflation?

The (by other people) after “a price worth paying” is implicit.

jimbob · 29th September 2022, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

I see that Truss is "standing by Kwarteng". He's toast, then.

Check out the names on this

Almost certainly genuine from 2017 in redacted form

https://twitter.com/wilbur_munch/sta...kbWBvKKMw-9M4Q

GlennB · 29th September 2022, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Check out the names on this

Almost certainly genuine from 2017 in redacted form

https://twitter.com/wilbur_munch/sta...kbWBvKKMw-9M4Q

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Except he's putting someone else's wages on a horse race and stands to collect the winnings in the unlikely event that Dobbin romps home.

Good point.

...And collecting your betting tax.

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

The Tory conference starts Saturday. Now it could actually be fun to watch

Theresa May came out dancing - if you can call jerking dancing - to 'Dancing Queen'.

Truss could come out as the robot in Automatic Lover.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

In the "What on earth are the smoking in the House of Lords"-category, we have Tory peer and Brexit architect Daniel Hannan:

https://conservativehome.com/2022/09...h-of-tax-cuts/

It's called False Memory Syndrome. Everything was the fault of the Labour manifesto of 1998.

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

Yesterday Truss was 11-1 to be replaced as PM in 2022. Now 7-1. I had a crafty £2 at 11s, so might clean up here!

Unfortunately my winnings could be worth less than £2 of today's money, so maybe I should have spent it on rice and beans?

You lose £2,500 on energy bills, win £22. Not so crafty.

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Stimulus (eg tax cuts) is pure stupidity when the central bank is restricting money supplies to control inflation. Monetary policy far outweighs fiscal policy in terms of it's impact so of the BoE is tightening money supplies to reduce ecnomic activity and inflation along with it, it WILL win out over fiscal policy aimed at increasing economic activity (and inflation along with it). In the end all you get are higher interest rates and deficits.

Dominic Cummings really should have brought Andrew Bailey under his control. Can't have all these independent judges and bankers making a mockery of Boris and Liz.

Next to go after the ECHR, the independence of the Bank of England.

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

...and remember, Truss also has to find an additional 157bn to spend on the military.

I know...perhaps ask Dido to repay the £137bn that went missing, n'er to be seen again...?

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi

They've been making ~~efficiency savings~~ cuts for 12 years, that's why we have so many food banks, starving children, and an NHS in crisis

Charity is one of the great Tory principles. I used to go on a 'Charity Day' with all the hooray Henrys and Henriettas I used to work with...once a year. Hurrah, a day out of the office helping the plebs paint their community centres and sweep up the leaves in an East End park. I am so charitable.

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

It beggars belief that there's huge amounts of waste that can be addressed in order to make the tens of billions of pounds of savings when successive Conservative and coalition governments have been implementing austerity programmes for over a decade.

Given that most of the individuals are still the same, if those programmes have been unsuccessful for over a decade, why should it be any different now.

Of course what will happen is that budgets will be cut without any clear indication as to where the savings will come which will simply result in reductions in services leading to increases in inequality - which is IMO one of the objectives of the government, to maintain a politically apathetic underclass who can be exploited by the vulture capitalists pulling the strings.

'Efficiency' is usually a euphemism applied to public services. Now to get rid of all those civil servants whilst at the same time putting out public statements that 'the delays in issuing passports is unacceptable'.

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Especially when there has been no fiscal policy to encourage growth! Removing the top rate of income tax is not a fiscal policy for growth.

Exactament. People on over £150,000 aren't going to spend more, they will just put the excess money not needed into savings or investments. Claim back 40% tax by shoving it in a pension fund.

Vixen · 29th September 2022, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Check out the names on this

Almost certainly genuine from 2017 in redacted form

https://twitter.com/wilbur_munch/sta...kbWBvKKMw-9M4Q

I wouldn't give any credence to muck racking. It is well known Amber Rudd once dated ~~Kami~~ Kwasi Kwarteng. The latter has been a friend of Truss since their Cambridge days and live closeby in Greenwich. The person who compiled the 'intelligence' likely put 2 + 2 together and got 5. Sounds like someone with a dirty mind.

jimbob · 29th September 2022, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

I wouldn't give any credence to muck racking. It is well known Amber Rudd once dated ~~Kami~~ Kwasi Kwarteng. The latter has been a friend of Truss since their Cambridge days and live closeby in Greenwich. The person who compiled the 'intelligence' likely put 2 + 2 together and got 5. Sounds like someone with a dirty mind.

Nope, check out the Chris Pincher information.

And the first date I can see for this is 2017

ohms · 29th September 2022, 09:44 AM

Latest YouGov poll for The Times shows Labour with a 33% point lead over the Tories

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/y...ries-n90lqlgf7

(paywalled but you can read the headline)

GlennB · 29th September 2022, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by ohms

Latest YouGov poll for The Times shows Labour with a 33% point lead over the Tories

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/y...ries-n90lqlgf7

(paywalled but you can read the headline)

Wow. That's going to raise a few eyebrows among her MPs

zooterkin · 29th September 2022, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by ohms

Latest YouGov poll for The Times shows Labour with a 33% point lead over the Tories

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/y...ries-n90lqlgf7

(paywalled but you can read the headline)

Two polls have shown a 17% lead, and another today had 22% or so.

28th September 2022, 09:38 AM	#521
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,718	Originally Posted by Vixen His big problems are: being single being on minimum wage / low paid expecting to be a first-time buyer in London. Back in the day, whilst interest rates did indeed go up to 15% (but only for one day; it soon dropped back to 10%) in the '90's, prior to that (going backto the seventies and eighties) the average mortgage applicant was only expected to show their earnings as apx 3:1 the value of the property. Nowadays, whilst interest rates have been very low (<2%) OTOH mortgage providers now expect up to five times one's salary minimum, on the assumption you are in a partnership, and thus able to afford the average high house prices today. This assumption immediately makes it hard for a single person or someone who doesn't want to share. In addition, even if he had the requisite deposit, his earnings wouldn't buy him anywhere in London, with the housing market there grossly overpriced IMO. Renting won't help this chap as rents will rise along with mortgages to meet the landlords' costs. This chap is better off finding a place near Norfolk whilst there are gains to be made on stamp duty and sit it out. According to the link: ibid So, he'll need to ensure he can cope with an extra £190 pcm on a mortgage, together with another £100 pcm...£200 pcm...? extra on energy bills in the coming years, on top of that. Otherwise it is back to living with Mum and Dad for many younger people. 30 year fixed rate in the US is now 6.5%, and only that low if you buy points. I could just barely afford my house at that rate. I'm working out that if I moved to an equivalent house the interest portion of my payment would actually more than double, and my property taxes would also nearly double (because they can only rise by 3%/year for current owners). I could afford it, but my disposable income would be down to maybe $400 or $500 a month. Originally Posted by Vixen Also known as, Russian roulette or casino gambling. Just chuck everything onto the red square and hope for the best. Yeah, with 6 rounds loaded.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,718

28th September 2022, 09:42 AM	#522
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	That is the problem with Truss' and Kwarteng's naked 'small state' ideology and Ayn Rand style capitalism. What is needed for the position of Chancellor of the Exchequer is someone who is not afraid to tell the boss her ideas are poppycock, and someone who is a hard headed economist or scientist, not someone driven by the 'Britannia Unbound' fantasy of the heroic entrepreneur against the world. It doesn't work like that. It's like the man who puts his entire week's wages on a horse race.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

28th September 2022, 11:02 AM	#524
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 29,715	The Tory conference starts Saturday. Now it could actually be fun to watch
	__________________ "There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury

28th September 2022, 11:09 AM	#525
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,879	In the "What on earth are the smoking in the House of Lords"-category, we have Tory peer and Brexit architect Daniel Hannan: Quote: What we have seen since Friday is partly a market adjustment to the increased probability that Sir Keir Starmer will win in 2024 or 2025 – leading to higher taxes, higher spending, and a weaker economy. ... Some pundits don’t like Truss, others have never forgiven the Tories for Brexit, yet others are horrified by the idea that growth, rather than equality, should be the government’s priority. Fair enough. But let’s be clear-headed about what is happening. https://conservativehome.com/2022/09...h-of-tax-cuts/
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,879

28th September 2022, 11:52 AM	#526
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,603	Originally Posted by Mojo That’s 3 or 4 stops past. Three now, it used to be two.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th September 2022, 10:56 AM	#523
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,612	Originally Posted by Vixen That is the problem with Truss' and Kwarteng's naked 'small state' ideology and Ayn Rand style capitalism. What is needed for the position of Chancellor of the Exchequer is someone who is not afraid to tell the boss her ideas are poppycock, and someone who is a hard headed economist or scientist, not someone driven by the 'Britannia Unbound' fantasy of the heroic entrepreneur against the world. It doesn't work like that. It's like the man who puts his entire week's wages on a horse race. Except he's putting someone else's wages on a horse race and stands to collect the winnings in the unlikely event that Dobbin romps home.

28th September 2022, 12:04 PM	#527
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,960	And Truss reacts exactly as predicted: Draw up plan for cuts, government departments told Quote: Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Chris Philp, will write to government departments in the coming days about finding spending efficiencies. Of course efficiency savings are the perpetual cover for cuts, because our public services are clearly awash with money. And if there are efficiency savings to be had, why has it taken the Tories 12 years to look for them? And yes, that was a rhetorical question.
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

28th September 2022, 12:13 PM	#528
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 29,715	Yesterday Truss was 11-1 to be replaced as PM in 2022. Now 7-1. I had a crafty £2 at 11s, so might clean up here! Unfortunately my winnings could be worth less than £2 of today's money, so maybe I should have spent it on rice and beans?
	__________________ "There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury

28th September 2022, 01:52 PM	#529
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 12,938	Originally Posted by The Don According to this BBC commentator, Kwasi Kwarteng must U-turn on tax or cut spending. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63049044 I think we all know what they would prefer to do Stimulus (eg tax cuts) is pure stupidity when the central bank is restricting money supplies to control inflation. Monetary policy far outweighs fiscal policy in terms of it's impact so of the BoE is tightening money supplies to reduce ecnomic activity and inflation along with it, it WILL win out over fiscal policy aimed at increasing economic activity (and inflation along with it). In the end all you get are higher interest rates and deficits.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

28th September 2022, 02:07 PM	#530
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 37,079	Originally Posted by catsmate Three now, it used to be two. Depends on whether it’s East or Heathway.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

28th September 2022, 02:08 PM	#531
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 12,938	Originally Posted by GlennB "Am told the BoE were responding to a “run dynamic” on pension funds - a wholesale equivalent of the run which destroyed Northern Rock. Had they not intervened, there would have been mass insolvencies of pension funds by THIS AFTERNOON." linky from Sky News If the BoE has really been forced into increasing money supplies to keep the financial system stable expect even more inflation over the next couple years.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

28th September 2022, 04:04 PM	#532
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 45,250	Originally Posted by Garrison And Truss reacts exactly as predicted: Draw up plan for cuts, government departments told Of course efficiency savings are the perpetual cover for cuts, because our public services are clearly awash with money. And if there are efficiency savings to be had, why has it taken the Tories 12 years to look for them? And yes, that was a rhetorical question. Blanket cuts don't increase efficiency, they make efficiency worse. It's like saving money by leaving a wheel off a car. Efficiency is a laudable goal but it doesn't happen magically.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

28th September 2022, 04:09 PM	#533
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 29,715	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Blanket cuts don't increase efficiency, they make efficiency worse. It's like saving money by leaving a wheel off a car. Efficiency is a laudable goal but it doesn't happen magically. Yeah, but it 'sounds good'. The last several years of UK government have been all about sounding good.
	__________________ "There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury

28th September 2022, 10:34 PM	#534
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,612	...and remember, Truss also has to find an additional 157bn to spend on the military.

28th September 2022, 10:55 PM	#535
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 4,376	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Blanket cuts don't increase efficiency, they make efficiency worse. It's like saving money by leaving a wheel off a car. Efficiency is a laudable goal but it doesn't happen magically. They've been making ~~efficiency savings~~ cuts for 12 years, that's why we have so many food banks, starving children, and an NHS in crisis
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

28th September 2022, 11:46 PM	#536
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,612	Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi They've been making ~~efficiency savings~~ cuts for 12 years, that's why we have so many food banks, starving children, and an NHS in crisis It beggars belief that there's huge amounts of waste that can be addressed in order to make the tens of billions of pounds of savings when successive Conservative and coalition governments have been implementing austerity programmes for over a decade. Given that most of the individuals are still the same, if those programmes have been unsuccessful for over a decade, why should it be any different now. Of course what will happen is that budgets will be cut without any clear indication as to where the savings will come which will simply result in reductions in services leading to increases in inequality - which is IMO one of the objectives of the government, to maintain a politically apathetic underclass who can be exploited by the vulture capitalists pulling the strings.

29th September 2022, 12:54 AM	#537
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,588	Originally Posted by lomiller Stimulus (eg tax cuts) is pure stupidity when the central bank is restricting money supplies to control inflation. Monetary policy far outweighs fiscal policy in terms of it's impact so of the BoE is tightening money supplies to reduce ecnomic activity and inflation along with it, it WILL win out over fiscal policy aimed at increasing economic activity (and inflation along with it). In the end all you get are higher interest rates and deficits. Especially when there has been no fiscal policy to encourage growth! Removing the top rate of income tax is not a fiscal policy for growth.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

29th September 2022, 12:56 AM	#538
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,588	Originally Posted by The Don ...and remember, Truss also has to find an additional 157bn to spend on the military. We should bring back national service!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

29th September 2022, 12:57 AM	#539
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 18,597	Originally Posted by Darat Especially when there has been no fiscal policy to encourage growth! Removing the top rate of income tax is not a fiscal policy for growth. Au contraire, it grows the wealth of those who were on the top rate.

29th September 2022, 01:14 AM	#540
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 4,376	The clips of Truss getting taken to the cleaners on numerous BBC local radio stations this morning have been excruciating
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

29th September 2022, 01:22 AM	#541
wobs Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Hull Posts: 2,963	Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi The clips of Truss getting taken to the cleaners on numerous BBC local radio stations this morning have been excruciating I didn't know she'd ventured out to speak to the media. I was going to check my fridge!
	__________________ "To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."

29th September 2022, 02:07 AM	#542
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 37,079	Originally Posted by The Don It beggars belief that there's huge amounts of waste that can be addressed in order to make the tens of billions of pounds of savings when successive Conservative and coalition governments have been implementing austerity programmes for over a decade. Given that most of the individuals are still the same, if those programmes have been unsuccessful for over a decade, why should it be any different now. Of course what will happen is that budgets will be cut without any clear indication as to where the savings will come which will simply result in reductions in services leading to increases in inequality - which is IMO one of the objectives of the government, to maintain a politically apathetic underclass who can be exploited by the vulture capitalists pulling the strings. Remember when mass unemployment was described as “a price worth paying” for lower inflation?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

29th September 2022, 02:13 AM	#543
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 4,376	Alexander Clarkson on Twitter Quote: Liz Truss's Director of Communications, Jason Stein, used to work as Communications Adviser for Prince Andrew until the Maitlis interview
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

29th September 2022, 02:21 AM	#544
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,612	Originally Posted by Mojo Remember when mass unemployment was described as “a price worth paying” for lower inflation? The (by other people) after “a price worth paying” is implicit.

29th September 2022, 03:50 AM	#545
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 30,047	Originally Posted by GlennB I see that Truss is "standing by Kwarteng". He's toast, then. Check out the names on this Almost certainly genuine from 2017 in redacted form https://twitter.com/wilbur_munch/sta...kbWBvKKMw-9M4Q
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

29th September 2022, 03:53 AM	#546
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 29,715	Originally Posted by jimbob Check out the names on this Almost certainly genuine from 2017 in redacted form https://twitter.com/wilbur_munch/sta...kbWBvKKMw-9M4Q
	__________________ "There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury

29th September 2022, 04:02 AM	#547
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by The Don Except he's putting someone else's wages on a horse race and stands to collect the winnings in the unlikely event that Dobbin romps home. Good point. ...And collecting your betting tax.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

29th September 2022, 04:07 AM	#549
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by KDLarsen In the "What on earth are the smoking in the House of Lords"-category, we have Tory peer and Brexit architect Daniel Hannan: https://conservativehome.com/2022/09...h-of-tax-cuts/ It's called False Memory Syndrome. Everything was the fault of the Labour manifesto of 1998.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

29th September 2022, 04:09 AM	#550
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by GlennB Yesterday Truss was 11-1 to be replaced as PM in 2022. Now 7-1. I had a crafty £2 at 11s, so might clean up here! Unfortunately my winnings could be worth less than £2 of today's money, so maybe I should have spent it on rice and beans? You lose £2,500 on energy bills, win £22. Not so crafty.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

29th September 2022, 04:11 AM	#551
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by lomiller Stimulus (eg tax cuts) is pure stupidity when the central bank is restricting money supplies to control inflation. Monetary policy far outweighs fiscal policy in terms of it's impact so of the BoE is tightening money supplies to reduce ecnomic activity and inflation along with it, it WILL win out over fiscal policy aimed at increasing economic activity (and inflation along with it). In the end all you get are higher interest rates and deficits. Dominic Cummings really should have brought Andrew Bailey under his control. Can't have all these independent judges and bankers making a mockery of Boris and Liz. Next to go after the ECHR, the independence of the Bank of England.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

29th September 2022, 04:12 AM	#552
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by The Don ...and remember, Truss also has to find an additional 157bn to spend on the military. I know...perhaps ask Dido to repay the £137bn that went missing, n'er to be seen again...?
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

29th September 2022, 04:15 AM	#553
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi They've been making ~~efficiency savings~~ cuts for 12 years, that's why we have so many food banks, starving children, and an NHS in crisis Charity is one of the great Tory principles. I used to go on a 'Charity Day' with all the hooray Henrys and Henriettas I used to work with...once a year. Hurrah, a day out of the office helping the plebs paint their community centres and sweep up the leaves in an East End park. I am so charitable.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

29th September 2022, 04:18 AM	#554
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by The Don It beggars belief that there's huge amounts of waste that can be addressed in order to make the tens of billions of pounds of savings when successive Conservative and coalition governments have been implementing austerity programmes for over a decade. Given that most of the individuals are still the same, if those programmes have been unsuccessful for over a decade, why should it be any different now. Of course what will happen is that budgets will be cut without any clear indication as to where the savings will come which will simply result in reductions in services leading to increases in inequality - which is IMO one of the objectives of the government, to maintain a politically apathetic underclass who can be exploited by the vulture capitalists pulling the strings. 'Efficiency' is usually a euphemism applied to public services. Now to get rid of all those civil servants whilst at the same time putting out public statements that 'the delays in issuing passports is unacceptable'.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

29th September 2022, 04:19 AM	#555
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by Darat Especially when there has been no fiscal policy to encourage growth! Removing the top rate of income tax is not a fiscal policy for growth. Exactament. People on over £150,000 aren't going to spend more, they will just put the excess money not needed into savings or investments. Claim back 40% tax by shoving it in a pension fund.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

29th September 2022, 04:22 AM	#556
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 32,715	Originally Posted by jimbob Check out the names on this Almost certainly genuine from 2017 in redacted form https://twitter.com/wilbur_munch/sta...kbWBvKKMw-9M4Q I wouldn't give any credence to muck racking. It is well known Amber Rudd once dated ~~Kami~~ Kwasi Kwarteng. The latter has been a friend of Truss since their Cambridge days and live closeby in Greenwich. The person who compiled the 'intelligence' likely put 2 + 2 together and got 5. Sounds like someone with a dirty mind.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend