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Old 28th May 2019, 07:22 AM   #1
zooterkin
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Naomi Wolf boobs

Naomi Wolf has just published a book about marginalisation of gay men in Victorian society. However, the central thesis, that men were being executed for sodomy, appears to be based on a complete misunderstanding of a legal term, "death recorded", which actually meant the opposite.

This was, somewhat embarrassingly, revealed during an interview with historian Matthew Sweet intended to publicise the book on BBC radio (revelation is around 21'30", relevant section starts around 19').
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Old 28th May 2019, 07:26 AM   #2
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Again with the clickbait titles.
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Old 28th May 2019, 07:27 AM   #3
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I suppose it is fortunate for her that her boobs were only embarrassingly revealed on the radio.
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Old 28th May 2019, 08:20 AM   #4
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She's always been a boob.
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Old 28th May 2019, 08:35 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Naomi Wolf has just published a book about marginalisation of gay men in Victorian society. However, the central thesis, that men were being executed for sodomy, appears to be based on a complete misunderstanding of a legal term, "death recorded", which actually meant the opposite.

This was, somewhat embarrassingly, revealed during an interview with historian Matthew Sweet intended to publicise the book on BBC radio (revelation is around 21'30", relevant section starts around 19').
I heard that last week. You can kind of tell when it hits her. The host is very good in the interview.
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Old 28th May 2019, 08:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Naomi Wolf has just published a book about marginalisation of gay men in Victorian society. However, the central thesis, that men were being executed for sodomy, appears to be based on a complete misunderstanding of a legal term, "death recorded", which actually meant the opposite.

This was, somewhat embarrassingly, revealed during an interview with historian Matthew Sweet intended to publicise the book on BBC radio (revelation is around 21'30", relevant section starts around 19').
It gets worse: The book started out as a doctoral thesis. Wolf earned a PhD from Oxford behind this research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_..._personal_life
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Old 28th May 2019, 08:47 AM   #7
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The patriarchy hacked her thesis.
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Old 28th May 2019, 08:48 AM   #8
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So .. where are the boobs ? I'm waiting !
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Old 28th May 2019, 08:55 AM   #9
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I think a more appropriate title would have been

Naomi Wolf Boner
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Old 28th May 2019, 10:58 AM   #10
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The 'death recorded' usage may be obscure, but how on earth could anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the Victorian era think executions for sodomy occurred? Oscar Wilde, for god's sake! Such a thing would have been rather widely talked about!
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Old 28th May 2019, 12:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The 'death recorded' usage may be obscure, but how on earth could anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the Victorian era think executions for sodomy occurred? Oscar Wilde, for god's sake! Such a thing would have been rather widely talked about!
You'd think that even if she didn't catch it, her thesis supervisor would have caught it.

Though, the doctorate is in English Literature, not history or jurisprudence. Probably Dr. Stefano-Maria Evangelista isn't a specialist in Victorian-era English lit.

Though, that then does raise the question of how legal documents are proper study for a doctor of literature. Did Wolf and Evangelista think these were works of literary fiction? I guess it might help explain why her history book is a work of fiction.

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Old 28th May 2019, 02:00 PM   #12
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From the interview link in the OP, it's not just a misunderstanding of the term; it is also a miscategorization of events. Her claim is about executions for consensual homosexuality, but as the interviewer points out, one of her cases is for bestiality, another for felonious assault of school boys by an adult, and another for an assault on a six year old boy by her premier example.
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Old 28th May 2019, 02:25 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It gets worse: The book started out as a doctoral thesis. Wolf earned a PhD from Oxford behind this research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_..._personal_life
Does that mean they can ask for her PhD back?
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Old 28th May 2019, 02:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Does that mean they can ask for her PhD back?
Is that how PhDs work? I just assumed they were a form of accreditation that could be rescinded unilaterally by the accrediting entity.
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Old 28th May 2019, 08:03 PM   #15
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Who’s afraid of Naomi Wolf?
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Old 28th May 2019, 09:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
Who’s afraid of Naomi Wolf?
Historians, maybe.
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Old 28th May 2019, 11:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Naomi Wolf has just published a book about marginalisation of gay men in Victorian society. However, the central thesis, that men were being executed for sodomy, appears to be based on a complete misunderstanding of a legal term, "death recorded", which actually meant the opposite.

This was, somewhat embarrassingly, revealed during an interview with historian Matthew Sweet intended to publicise the book on BBC radio (revelation is around 21'30", relevant section starts around 19').
Way to go, zooterkin. Thanks to the thread title I had Naomi Wolf confused with Bettany Hughes for some reason.*





*And thinking that she had quite a nice pair ...



of history shows on the Beeb.
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Old 28th May 2019, 11:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Naomi Wolf has just published a book about marginalisation of gay men in Victorian society. However, the central thesis, that men were being executed for sodomy, appears to be based on a complete misunderstanding of a legal term, "death recorded", which actually meant the opposite.

This was, somewhat embarrassingly, revealed during an interview with historian Matthew Sweet intended to publicise the book on BBC radio (revelation is around 21'30", relevant section starts around 19').
Thanks for this I just listened to the broadcast. It is refreshing that on what would be a minority radio program the presenter had obviously read the book he was reviewing with the author, but had also fact checked it.

What was enlightening for me was how moderate sentencing was; in one key case where the author (Wolf) claimed a 14 yr old was executed for gay sex, it turned out that although the crime carried a death sentence the actual punishment was 2 years in prison for having sex with a six year old boy. Probably a less severe punishment than would be given now. Several of the cases which she assumed were consensual would be convicted today e.g. teachers having sex with pupils; none were clearly consensual, and those where more information was available appear to be rape, none were sentenced to death although in theory all were capital offences.

As the presenter says, the evidence actually contradicts the thesis in the book.
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Old 29th May 2019, 04:59 PM   #19
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Naomi Wolf has shown on several occasions that she IS a Boob.....
Dammit, Ninja'd by Brainster......
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The 'death recorded' usage may be obscure, but how on earth could anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the Victorian era think executions for sodomy occurred? Oscar Wilde, for god's sake! Such a thing would have been rather widely talked about!
You are assuming! But consider: Even Oscar Wilde himself, after he was executed for sodomy, never lost another word about it!
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:02 PM   #21
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Amazed somebody would write a book of history without doing much research....but that is what Naomi Wolfe has done, apparently.
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Amazed somebody would write a book of history without doing much research....but that is what Naomi Wolfe has done, apparently.
To be fair, it was an English lit thesis. It's possible her thesis advisor didn't realize any research would be necessary.
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Old 30th May 2019, 06:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To be fair, it was an English lit thesis. It's possible her thesis advisor didn't realize any research would be necessary.
I always wondered about English majors in college. They seemed to think themselves more qualified than philosophy majors to discuss philosophy and more qualified than history majors to discuss history. As a double major in history and philosophy I was frequently tempted to violence.
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Old 30th May 2019, 08:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The 'death recorded' usage may be obscure, but how on earth could anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the Victorian era think executions for sodomy occurred? Oscar Wilde, for god's sake! Such a thing would have been rather widely talked about!
Especially when he showed up at soirées as a zombie!
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Old 31st May 2019, 12:26 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The 'death recorded' usage may be obscure, but how on earth could anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the Victorian era think executions for sodomy occurred? Oscar Wilde, for god's sake! Such a thing would have been rather widely talked about!
Certainly better than not being talked about.
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Old 6th June 2019, 10:58 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I always wondered about English majors in college. They seemed to think themselves more qualified than philosophy majors to discuss philosophy and more qualified than history majors to discuss history. As a double major in history and philosophy I was frequently tempted to violence.
That's part of the natural order of things. It helps keep the population of English majors at manageable levels.
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