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Tags New Zealand incidents , transgender incidents , transgender issues

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Old 17th May 2019, 04:25 AM   #2041
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
If hospitals can't cope with trans people and it causes trans people real harm then, and work with me on this one because I know you are capable of reasoned thought.... THAT'S NOT THE TRANSPEOPLE WHO ARE TO BLAME, THAT'S THE HOSPITAL'S FAULT!!!
If the reason for failure is because of policies created by trans people, then no, trans people do share some blame. The fiction that a female can become a male is a dangerous one in a medical setting, but that is exactly what trans activists have pushed people into accepting.
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:19 AM   #2042
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Some in the trans community are upset by Snapchat's new gender swap filter.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashabl...wap-filter.amp

You can see what it looks like here if you don't want to download the app yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3Zn5xhNwuA
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:39 AM   #2043
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A question I've asked before, here and in meatspace : if you can have a man who is pregnant or a woman with a fully functional penis, what information is carried by the words 'man' and 'woman'? What utility do they have?

Last time this came up was about a year ago in the 'man gives birth' thread. The person in the article birthed a child, said they were a man. What information is carried by the term 'man' in that case, and (a question for the person in the article not the posters here) what precisely would have to be/feel different for them to say they were a woman?

Setting aside for the moment all considerations of bathrooms or athletic teams or the like : in those extreme cases where someone is pretty much fully biologically one sex, what are the precise differences which make them say they're the opposite gender? "Yes, I'm biologically a male, but I identify as a woman. Now, if <x> were different, then I'd be a man.".

None of this is meant as a judgement, a dig a motivations, or anything to do with morality. In these edge cases I'm honestly failing to see what information is being conveyed by 'man' or 'woman'.

Last edited by Joe Random; 17th May 2019 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:41 AM   #2044
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
A question I've asked before, here and in meatspace : if you can have a man who is pregnant or a woman with a fully functional penis, what information is carried by the words 'man' and 'woman'? What utility do they have?
I've been screaming that question into the void ever since the trans movement really came into the broad public discourse. I've gotten nothing even close to something that could be mistaken for something that could even be pretending to be an attempt at an answer.
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Old 17th May 2019, 06:09 AM   #2045
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've been screaming that question into the void ever since the trans movement really came into the broad public discourse. I've gotten nothing even close to something that could be mistaken for something that could even be pretending to be an attempt at an answer.

The most detailed answer I was ever given actually came from a woman (cis-) who I think was pretty much just guessing and trying to make sense of it herself. What it boiled down to were essentially preferences and interests. When I was growing up we'd have used the word 'tomboy' (with no insult intended) not 'transman'. You're not a boy, you're a girl who hates frilly dresses, wants to play on the football team, and traded in that Ez-Bake oven she got for her birthday for a Creepy Crawler Thingmaker. And that's wonderful and cool, we support you. Just use the right word to describe it.

So I can't imagine that trans* is actually like the seeming guesses my friend above was making, because it's not like we needed new terms to describe some new (or even newly accepted) phenomena.

I mean, I'm heterosexual. I say this because I'm sexually attracted to women and the idea of being with another man in a sexual setting is very off-putting to me. Now, if I were to wake up tomorrow and suddenly be turned on by men as well, I'd say I was bi, or if I was grossed out at the idea of being in bed with a woman but men really did it for me I'd call myself homosexual. The terms used convey information beyond something circular. I honestly struggle to see what non-circular information "I identify as ..." conveys.
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Old 17th May 2019, 06:11 AM   #2046
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
What has gender got to do with genitals?
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22b...ith+one+sex%22
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Old 17th May 2019, 06:24 AM   #2047
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I decided to give up some of the pseudointellectual crap.
Ah, so the reasoned debate wasn't working for you and you decided insults are the way to go?

Quote:
That person in the article is a woman.
Funny that the medical profession struggled with any of this. Its a pity they didn't have your expertise to help them.

Quote:
Her baby is dead.
His baby is dead indeed. You glad?
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Old 17th May 2019, 06:25 AM   #2048
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If the reason for failure is ...
And, it seems appropriate to use the old Scots proverb here.... "if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle".
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Old 17th May 2019, 06:31 AM   #2049
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've been screaming that question into the void ever since the trans movement really came into the broad public discourse. I've gotten nothing even close to something that could be mistaken for something that could even be pretending to be an attempt at an answer.
Rather than screaming into the void maybe take a moment to reflect that the good news is that you probably don't have gender dysphoria then?

There are a whole host of things that I don't understand fully and don't really 'get' but I am willing to accept that they are real things, and that other people indeed may have knowledge, experiences and emotions that I do not share.
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Old 17th May 2019, 06:34 AM   #2050
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Rather than screaming into the void maybe take a moment to reflect that the good news is that you probably don't have gender dysphoria then?

There are a whole host of things that I don't understand fully and don't really 'get' but I am willing to accept that they are real things, and that other people indeed may have knowledge, experiences and emotions that I do not share.
If by "get" you mean treat with the same basic level of human respect and dignity as everyone else, yes.

If by "get" you mean "literally perceive reality the way I do or pretend to do so, up to and including acknowledging a distinction without difference while not being allowed to discuss the difference" then no.
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Old 17th May 2019, 06:43 AM   #2051
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
...if you can have a man who is pregnant or a woman with a fully functional penis, what information is carried by the words 'man' and 'woman'? What utility do they have?
For one thing, it tells people where to shop for gender-appropriate attire.

https://twitter.com/BlueBallSkeptic/...87889960841217

I can probably think of other gender-specific situations that don't directly involve genitals and such.
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Old 17th May 2019, 07:17 AM   #2052
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Quote:
...if you can have a man who is pregnant or a woman with a fully functional penis, what information is carried by the words 'man' and 'woman'? What utility do they have?
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
For one thing, it tells people where to shop for gender-appropriate attire.

https://twitter.com/BlueBallSkeptic/...87889960841217

I can probably think of other gender-specific situations that don't directly involve genitals and such.
"Gender-appropriate"??? Perhaps you mean gender-specific? Having specific utility to one sex or other? Trousers have flys to accomodate the penis, allow men to to urinate, a skirt does the same for women. Y-fronts vs knickers. Bras?

You're just confirming that to you "gender stereotypes" and even simple definitions exist or don't, whenever it suits you to try and win a point (in your mind).
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Old 17th May 2019, 07:31 AM   #2053
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
A question I've asked before, here and in meatspace : if you can have a man who is pregnant or a woman with a fully functional penis, what information is carried by the words 'man' and 'woman'? What utility do they have?
I see the problem, you're overthinking the whole issue.

Best not to do that lest you find yourself asking questions like....If gender is a social construct, then why be trans ?

Why not just be a girly guy or a mannish chick ?
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Old 17th May 2019, 07:33 AM   #2054
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
"Gender-appropriate"??? Perhaps you mean gender-specific? Having specific utility to one sex or other? Trousers have flys to accomodate the penis, allow men to to urinate, a skirt does the same for women. Y-fronts vs knickers. Bras?
Never been to Scotland, eh?

...but seriously why does it matter to you if a bloke wants to wear a skirt? Or a bra?
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Old 17th May 2019, 07:41 AM   #2055
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I see the problem, you're overthinking the whole issue.

Best not to do that lest you find yourself asking questions like....If gender is a social construct, then why be trans ?

Why not just be a girly guy or a mannish chick ?
The funny thing is that many activist "trans women" are anything but 'girly' - they act exactly like male bullies;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgQy70_LPS4
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Old 17th May 2019, 07:54 AM   #2056
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I see the problem, you're overthinking the whole issue.

Best not to do that lest you find yourself asking questions like....If gender is a social construct, then why be trans ?

Why not just be a girly guy or a mannish chick ?
That's exactly the questions I've been asking and I haven't gotten answer beyond "You're being a transphobe!" or progressivism's standard excuse at pointing at some "Official Victim Ranking Chart" only they can see and grunting.
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Old 17th May 2019, 07:55 AM   #2057
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Well clothing might be an issue still, but I've found a handy flow chart to determine the gender-appropriateness of toys :


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Old 17th May 2019, 08:45 AM   #2058
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Ah, so the reasoned debate wasn't working for you and you decided insults are the way to go?
It is impossible to have a reasoned debate about pregnant men. Any 12 year old can explain why, but since you went to college you might not understand the explanation. If that is the case, then the Joes have done a good job of explaining.
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Old 17th May 2019, 08:47 AM   #2059
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
If gender is a social construct, then why be trans ?

Why not just be a girly guy or a mannish chick ?
I don’t know why you say this like it’s an apocryphal question. There’s nothing wrong with it. You only get any pushback from people who answered it already while you weren’t looking and are tired of trying to answer it again.

I don’t think it’s a question with a singular answer either. Gender and presentation seem to mean different things to different people. Plenty of people are indeed happy being mannish chicks, and some trans men still enjoy a lot of typically feminine things. I can’t tell you what the point is, but I also can’t tell you the point of a thousand other things humans do. It doesn’t bother me. Human beings are not actually particularly good at living their lives based on good logical consistent sense. The more I think about it the more I liken gender identity to religion; it’s personal, it doesn’t actually make any sense but people feel very deeply about it, and hopefully one day we’ll all outgrow it.
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Old 17th May 2019, 10:29 AM   #2060
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
I don’t know why you say this like it’s an apocryphal question. There’s nothing wrong with it. You only get any pushback from people who answered it already while you weren’t looking and are tired of trying to answer it again.

I don’t think it’s a question with a singular answer either. Gender and presentation seem to mean different things to different people. Plenty of people are indeed happy being mannish chicks, and some trans men still enjoy a lot of typically feminine things. I can’t tell you what the point is, but I also can’t tell you the point of a thousand other things humans do. It doesn’t bother me. Human beings are not actually particularly good at living their lives based on good logical consistent sense. The more I think about it the more I liken gender identity to religion; it’s personal, it doesn’t actually make any sense but people feel very deeply about it, and hopefully one day we’ll all outgrow it.
I totally agree with you on the being like religion thing. Personally I don't give a rip who uses what bathroom but there are certainly those who do and for reasons that could be described as illogical.

The question could be reworded to ask...Why is is so important that I, John Q Public accept you for something that you're not ? Why do I need to go whole hog and believe that you're the exact same as someone who was born into their apparent gender ?

I also have to accept that a a cis dude any opinion I have on trans women in sport of accessing bathrooms/changerppms is going to get me labelled as either a transphobe or a misogynist, maybe even a transmisogynist to which I can only say....So what ?
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Old 17th May 2019, 11:10 AM   #2061
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Ah, so the reasoned debate wasn't working for you and you decided insults are the way to go?



Funny that the medical profession struggled with any of this. Its a pity they didn't have your expertise to help them.



His baby is dead indeed. You glad?
It's not funny that the medical profession struggled with this situation. Its ******* tragic. And it's also insulting that you insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.

The whole point is that, in certain situations (and in my opinion, especially dealing with the medical profession where life or death may hinge on decisions such as biological sex), correctly identifying yourself by your birth-biological sex is vitally important and should be required. Damned your feelings when so much is at stake: not only your life, but the possibility of protracted lawsuits, misdiagnosis, and simple insurance settlements. There is firm, scientific reasoning for requiring medical documents to show biological sex. Hell, I'd be ok if the forms had some sort of blank after the two checkboxes for sex that would allow for further explanation. But let's not pretend that the sex of the individual is unimportant, as the example shows.
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Old 17th May 2019, 11:31 AM   #2062
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
not only your life, but the possibility of protracted lawsuits, misdiagnosis, and simple insurance settlements.
and , let's not forget, someone else's life.
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Old 17th May 2019, 11:36 AM   #2063
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In any medical situation you must answer honestly to help them help you.

Do you have any allergies to any meds?

I got lucky and do not. They always ask and I appreciate it. My 'stache probably gives away my gender and other small details confirm it for them. I bet they appreciate that after this gal's mess.

She should have mentioned something if none of the folks on staff noted (s)he looked a bit off kilter for a typical male. Never assume anything when a life is on the line. Even if it might offend her feelings.

This is an extreme case and my hope is it stays a rare one. Like never again.
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Old 17th May 2019, 12:53 PM   #2064
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It’s a weird world when good medical practice becomes: when a patient presents to the ER for abdominal pain, run a pregnancy test even if the patient has all outward appearances of being male. In an office setting, the insurance company wouldn’t pay for it because the gender would be set to make on the claim. No big deal because it’s pretty cheap...

Now consider the case of a biologically female patient who identifies as male who presents for an annual exam...I cannot put male on their demographic form, obviously, but this might hurt their feelings. I would imagine that transmen still have the same genetic predispositions to certain diseases as females, especially if they haven’t fully transitioned. So propensity to Osteoporosis, breast/cervical/ovarian cancer...

I’m just imagining a scenario where a patient really wants to pass as a man, is offended by being called a woman and therefore doesn’t get the necessary tests done. I would hope that such a patient would be forthcoming about his true situation so proper medical care can be provided but seeing so much rhetoric, it’s hard to be certain.
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Old 17th May 2019, 01:54 PM   #2065
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
It's not funny that the medical profession struggled with this situation. Its ******* tragic. And it's also insulting that you insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.

The whole point is that, in certain situations (and in my opinion, especially dealing with the medical profession where life or death may hinge on decisions such as biological sex), correctly identifying yourself by your birth-biological sex is vitally important and should be required. Damned your feelings when so much is at stake: not only your life, but the possibility of protracted lawsuits, misdiagnosis, and simple insurance settlements. There is firm, scientific reasoning for requiring medical documents to show biological sex. Hell, I'd be ok if the forms had some sort of blank after the two checkboxes for sex that would allow for further explanation. But let's not pretend that the sex of the individual is unimportant, as the example shows.
re: the highlighted, they didn't insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
They simply asked a question after the other person brought it up.

Stop being so insulted about imaginary things that your emotions told you to be insulted about, when the reality is that it never happened in the first place.
**** I get annoyed about this pretend insulting/offence stuff.
This is a prime example of that.

re: the stuff i didn't highlight, I have no opinion on that.

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Old 17th May 2019, 02:01 PM   #2066
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
In these edge cases I'm honestly failing to see what information is being conveyed by 'man' or 'woman'.
Well, if you'd ever heard of "edging" you might wish you'd phrased that differently.

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Bras?
Ask a soccer player - it looks like all the professional players wear one.

Maybe they're at the forefront of blurring gender?
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Old 17th May 2019, 02:21 PM   #2067
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
re: the highlighted, they didn't insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
They simply asked a question after the other person brought it up.

Stop being so insulted about imaginary things that your emotions told you to be insulted about, when the reality is that it never happened in the first place.
**** I get annoyed about this pretend insulting/offence stuff.
This is a prime example of that.

re: the stuff i didn't highlight, I have no opinion on that.
I can't really take this seriously. Stating "His baby is dead indeed. You glad?" is not only off topic, but is so outside the scope of what was being discussed that it implies something despicable. And I would bet my bottom dollar that most of the posters here would agree with my assessment. If not, I would gladly retract.
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Old 17th May 2019, 02:58 PM   #2068
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
re: the highlighted, they didn't insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
They simply asked a question after the other person brought it up.

Stop being so insulted about imaginary things that your emotions told you to be insulted about, when the reality is that it never happened in the first place.
**** I get annoyed about this pretend insulting/offence stuff.
This is a prime example of that.

re: the stuff i didn't highlight, I have no opinion on that.


The “you glad?” part is the one that indicates, to me anyway, that there was some sinister insinuation (next band name?). An insult disguised as JAQ.
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Old 17th May 2019, 04:08 PM   #2069
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
I can't really take this seriously. Stating "His baby is dead indeed. You glad?" is not only off topic, but is so outside the scope of what was being discussed that it implies something despicable. And I would bet my bottom dollar that most of the posters here would agree with my assessment. If not, I would gladly retract.
This is the actual thing that happened,

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I decided to give up some of the pseudointellectual crap.
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Ah, so the reasoned debate wasn't working for you and you decided insults are the way to go?

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
That person in the article is a woman.
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Funny that the medical profession struggled with any of this. Its a pity they didn't have your expertise to help them.
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Her baby is dead.


Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
His baby is dead indeed. You glad?
Let us not lose ourselves in imaginary insulting things that never happened, lets's stick to the facts.

replying to something that someone else brought up can't be offtopic, unless that someone else bringing it up was being offtopic in the first place.
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Old 17th May 2019, 04:57 PM   #2070
Joe Random
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Well, if you'd ever heard of "edging" you might wish you'd phrased that differently.

<...>

When I was young we used to call that 'tantra'. Today I tend to call it 'three shots of a single malt before "happy adult alone time"'.

Six of one, 45 minutes of another ...
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:23 PM   #2071
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
And, it seems appropriate to use the old Scots proverb here.... "if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle".
That's transphobic.
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Old 18th May 2019, 12:08 PM   #2072
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
The funny thing is that many activist "trans women" are anything but 'girly'

<snip>

When you say "many", are you suggesting than some significant percentage of 'activist "trans women"' are bullies?

Would you like to clarify how large a percentage you believe that to be?

Evidence by anecdote isn't really helpful. I'm pretty sure that for every example of a transwoman you can find who is acting like a bully I can find several where they are not.

And without too much difficulty find anti-trans "activists" who are.
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Old 18th May 2019, 11:58 PM   #2073
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
This is the actual thing that happened,
















Let us not lose ourselves in imaginary insulting things that never happened, lets's stick to the facts.

replying to something that someone else brought up can't be offtopic, unless that someone else bringing it up was being offtopic in the first place.
It seems very clear from Meadmaker's post that he does indeed think the death of that baby is tragic. I'm not clear why you think Archie asked "You glad?" if not to insinuate that Meadmaker was, but maybe you think he was just generally uncertain and was asking out of concern for the answer?

Meadmaker is very clearly not glad that the baby died. No sane person is. That should be assumed by anyone.

He furthermore seems upset that trans ideology contributed to baby's death, in so much as if the mother had simply said "I'm a woman" then the death would have been avoided. Anyone who is more concerned with the baby's life than the feelings of the mother should be able to see this.

It's possible that the death could have been avoided in other ways. If the hospital had some option for "transman" instead of just male or female, and if it's staff were familiar enough with the term, perhaps that could work, but it does increase the complexity of the situation and that inevitably leads to mistakes with people who are overworked, sleep deprived, etc. If we can't even get doctors to wash their hands, anything that makes their job simpler seems like a good idea, including putting biological sex on forms rather than gender.
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Old 19th May 2019, 08:02 AM   #2074
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Meghan Murphy coming to Scotland.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...land-1-4930060

Seems she's a little irked about being silenced by "the left".

Quote:
Laws were being passed and nobody was being consulted about it and there was no argument in the media. You just had to accept it or, as I found out when I started asking questions, you were a right-wing bigot.”

The irony in being declared right-wing is not lost on Murphy, who grew up with a Marxist father. She describes herself as a “socialist feminist” but says being labelled right-wing is used by her detractors an “easy out” from engaging with her arguments. However, her views have been embraced by the farthest reaches of American conservatism, something which she says is “not comfortable” but at least shows “they are willing to engage” – while those on the left just want to silence her.
Bolding mine.

So is she just coming to this realization now, or finally admitting to it ?

I'm no fan of Murphy, ever since she outed herself as a ageist douchbag

Quote:
I’d like to walk down the street in a dress without feeling like some 60 year old dude is ******* me with his eyes. It’s gross, not flattering. I don’t need the gaze of a 60 year old man to validate my existence. All that gaze does is make me hate 60 year old men.
But it is funny listening to her complain about "young people"

Quote:
When women were fighting for the rights we have now – which so many take for granted – those women were dismissed as crazy and radical. Young people think of all of that as insignificant. And that is upsetting.”
This is kind of like watching a pod of killer whales pigging out of a herd of seals. You don't know who to root for. The Orcas because they're just doing what Orcas do and everybody gotta eat, or the cute fluffy seals. Now exactly who is who in this analogy is up to you and your preferred political affiliations.

Or maybe a better analogy would be watching auto racing. Sure it's sort of interesting watching the cars go around the track but the real excitement, the stuff everybody wants, are the crashes.
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Old 19th May 2019, 11:11 AM   #2075
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Rather than screaming into the void maybe take a moment to reflect that the good news is that you probably don't have gender dysphoria then?

There are a whole host of things that I don't understand fully and don't really 'get' but I am willing to accept that they are real things, and that other people indeed may have knowledge, experiences and emotions that I do not share.
Ghosts
Aliens
Telekinesis
Psychics.

If hypocrisy was still a thing I'd accuse you of it.
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Old 19th May 2019, 11:19 AM   #2076
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
When you say "many", are you suggesting than some significant percentage of 'activist "trans women"' are bullies?

Would you like to clarify how large a percentage you believe that to be?

Evidence by anecdote isn't really helpful. I'm pretty sure that for every example of a transwoman you can find who is acting like a bully I can find several where they are not.

And without too much difficulty find anti-trans "activists" who are.
The poster would have been more accurate saying "the loudest trans activists are often bullies".

And the problem is we live in an age where being loud is more important than being right. So those are the people that get rallied behind.

The problem isn't trans folks or conservative folks. The problem is we let the loudest ,most extreme 3 per cent be our mouthpieces because we are more concerned with rustling jimmies than actually coming to a conclusion that is fair or logical.

If this was not the most extreme 3 power cent on both sides being icons we would have a hell of a lot more progress at this point in time. And as a personal opinion the pile of **** with a bad tupee wouldn't be president.
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Old 19th May 2019, 03:01 PM   #2077
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
It seems very clear from Meadmaker's post that he does indeed think the death of that baby is tragic.
really? It just looked like a factual statement to me.

Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
I'm not clear why you think Archie asked "You glad?" if not to insinuate that Meadmaker was, but maybe you think he was just generally uncertain and was asking out of concern for the answer?
If Meadmaker brought it up then it is not offtopic to reply to it.

Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Meadmaker is very clearly not glad that the baby died. No sane person is. That should be assumed by anyone.
I'm not keen on assumptions, I think there's an expression somewhere, that points the problem out?

Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
He furthermore seems upset that trans ideology contributed to baby's death, in so much as if the mother had simply said "I'm a woman" then the death would have been avoided. Anyone who is more concerned with the baby's life than the feelings of the mother should be able to see this.

It's possible that the death could have been avoided in other ways. If the hospital had some option for "transman" instead of just male or female, and if it's staff were familiar enough with the term, perhaps that could work, but it does increase the complexity of the situation and that inevitably leads to mistakes with people who are overworked, sleep deprived, etc. If we can't even get doctors to wash their hands, anything that makes their job simpler seems like a good idea, including putting biological sex on forms rather than gender.
I'm addressing the accusation of being offtopic when you reply to meadmakers 'her baby is dead' statement.

It's not offtopic, there might be ways to project your own shizzle on to it to seem that way, but it would be incorrect to do so.
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Old 19th May 2019, 04:23 PM   #2078
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
really? It just looked like a factual statement to me.


If Meadmaker brought it up then it is not offtopic to reply to it.


I'm not keen on assumptions, I think there's an expression somewhere, that points the problem out?



I'm addressing the accusation of being offtopic when you reply to meadmakers 'her baby is dead' statement.

It's not offtopic, there might be ways to project your own shizzle on to it to seem that way, but it would be incorrect to do so.
I didn't claim it was offtopic. Someone else said that "you glad?" was insulting, and you disagreed with that. I was disagreeing with you because the "you glad?" comment was in fact insulting.
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Old 19th May 2019, 04:45 PM   #2079
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Ahh, my favorite ISF sport, arguing about whether or not someone said something. Well, we have a quote, and even a multiquote function. It shouldn't be too hard.

Well, at any rate, I think this was the post that started this sub-discussion.

Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
re: the highlighted, they didn't insinuate that he would be glad that the child is dead.
They simply asked a question after the other person brought it up.
That post occurred prior to any mention of "off topic".

Now, POlka, if you didn't understand what I meant in my original post about a dead baby, or the subsequent question about whether or not I was glad it is dead, Roboramma got it right.

Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
It seems very clear from Meadmaker's post that he does indeed think the death of that baby is tragic. I'm not clear why you think Archie asked "You glad?" if not to insinuate that Meadmaker was, but maybe you think he was just generally uncertain and was asking out of concern for the answer?

Meadmaker is very clearly not glad that the baby died. No sane person is. That should be assumed by anyone.

He furthermore seems upset that trans ideology contributed to baby's death, in so much as if the mother had simply said "I'm a woman" then the death would have been avoided. Anyone who is more concerned with the baby's life than the feelings of the mother should be able to see this.

It's possible that the death could have been avoided in other ways. If the hospital had some option for "transman" instead of just male or female, and if it's staff were familiar enough with the term, perhaps that could work, but it does increase the complexity of the situation and that inevitably leads to mistakes with people who are overworked, sleep deprived, etc. If we can't even get doctors to wash their hands, anything that makes their job simpler seems like a good idea, including putting biological sex on forms rather than gender.
As for what Archie meant when he asked me if I was glad, I think Archie would have to answer that one. I could speculate, but that often leads to poor results. I will say that I think he had something in mind, but the something he had in mind wasn't reflected very well in what he actually wrote. It happens.
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Old 20th May 2019, 02:44 AM   #2080
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
The poster would have been more accurate saying "the loudest trans activists are often bullies".

<snip>

And would have been even more accurate had they said, "some of the loudest trans activists can sometimes be bullies"

But I don't think accuracy was the goal.

Demonization was.
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