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Old 27th April 2019, 12:24 AM   #481
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You may have found a website that claims that all slippery slope arguments are fallacies but that doesn't make it so. Educate yourself.
It doesn't change anything. There is nothing wrong with the slippery slope argument per se, but there is when you try to use it in the way that you are.

YOU are using the slippery slope argument as if each successive movement on the slope is inevitable; that is, if you allow A then it must follow that B will automatically happen, followed by C and D etc

What the slippery slope argument is, is a warning to be vigilant - you are using it as a fallacy by claiming inevitability where none exists.
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Old 27th April 2019, 03:05 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You may have found a website that claims that all slippery slope arguments are fallacies but that doesn't make it so. Educate yourself.
I know how the fallacy works. It applies when one has refrained from showing how A leads to B. You have made no attempt at substantiating this connection. Either do so or concede the argument.
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Old 27th April 2019, 04:18 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I know how the fallacy works. It applies when one has refrained from showing how A leads to B. You have made no attempt at substantiating this connection. Either do so or concede the argument.
Your LINK was about "A leads to Z". It is good to see that you are now more educated.
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Old 29th April 2019, 03:39 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Notice how psionIO tries to shift from "quite a few Republicans", with clear and obvious examples given, to just "Republicans" as a general target.

I'm not falling for GOB's illusions. Bill Weld, Rick Wilson, Tim Scott, and Marco Rubio, to name a few, would be fine. For that matter, so would Twitter user blackrepublican, who goes into the GOP's racial problems in great detail - a lesson that many republicans desperately need.

But Steve King? Despicable Donald? They're both obviously white supremacists who post white supremacist memes and phrases, so of course they'd get caught up in any effort to ban white supremacists.
If twitter blocked white supremacists where would the president get his policy advice from?
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Old 29th April 2019, 02:43 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
If twitter blocked white supremacists where would the president get his policy advice from?
Breitbart, Fox News, and Infowars
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Old 30th April 2019, 06:45 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
What the slippery slope argument is, is a warning to be vigilant - you are using it as a fallacy by claiming inevitability where none exists.
I'm totally going to steal that. That is well written and concise description of the slippery slope and how and how it should not be used.


Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
If twitter blocked white supremacists where would the president get his policy advice from?
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Breitbart, Fox News, and Infowars
Specifically, Fox and Friends, the version of Fox News produces by a Junior High AV club.

Last edited by ahhell; 30th April 2019 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 12:28 PM   #487
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/02/tech/...mer/index.html
"Facebook bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and others from its platforms as 'dangerous'"
I don't have a problem with this. If this were an ISP, good arguments could be made about not banning and slippery slopes but the entire business model of facebook is curating and moderating content, it isn't a blank slate for content like an ISP is and never has been so excluding racists etc and seems pretty acceptable to me.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 12:46 PM   #488
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I like how (for some reason) Farrakhan is brought up as the other side of the coin to these other guys. "If you ban Milo, you gotta ban Louis, too!" - as though that's gonna make leftists hold back.

And then they just got rid of all of them on Facebook. Good all around, I say.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:52 PM   #489
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Facebook bans far right groups

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/t...core-ios-share

Alex Jones banned from Facebook. Ha! Ha!

Also Paul Joseph Watson and others as mentioned above.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:15 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I like how (for some reason) Farrakhan is brought up as the other side of the coin to these other guys. "If you ban Milo, you gotta ban Louis, too!" - as though that's gonna make leftists hold back.

And then they just got rid of all of them on Facebook. Good all around, I say.
More like if you ban white supremacists, ban black supremacists too. Farrakhan is not left wing as I define the left. He is, however, painted by the GOP as left wing in order to tarnish liberals.

Take this American Spectator article which attempts to paint the left-wing as anti-semitics. Farrakhan, The Left, and Anti-Semitism

He's not a Democratic Party figure, for example. Just where do his beliefs cross over left-wing territory except his hatred of white supremacists?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:28 PM   #491
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I like how (for some reason) Farrakhan is brought up as the other side of the coin to these other guys. "If you ban Milo, you gotta ban Louis, too!" - as though that's gonna make leftists hold back.

And then they just got rid of all of them on Facebook. Good all around, I say.
Well...it's true that Farrakhan has done more good in his life than Milo Alyankovich or Ifnowars' conspiracy theorizing placebo peddlers. He has managed to get high-crime areas under control when police simply refused to do so, as well as providing security for black celebrities when police wouldn't (at this point, black police unions are around to step in when the normal unions and fellowships throw a fit over mild criticisms). People who speak of him fondly usually recall this, and mostly consider his racism and anti-semitism to be all bark and no bite.

However!

Farrakhan's still a hateful SOB who likely had Malcolm X killed for leaving the group, and he's still a conspiracy theorist and a woo peddler who has increasingly strange ties with Scientology. Saying he's done more good than Infowars - that bar isn't low, it doesn't even exist. If he's on the wrong side of an anti-hate policy, then the policy is being applied properly.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:35 PM   #492
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Banning is easy
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:25 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
If twitter blocked white supremacists where would the president get his policy advice from?
Stephen Miller, Steve King and Matt Gaetz?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 09:07 PM   #494
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Relevant, IMHO:

"The Existential Crisis Plaguing Online Extremism Researchers"

https://www.wired.com/story/existent...m-researchers/

Quote:
The past decade has been an exercise in dystopian comeuppance to the utopian discourse of the '90s and ‘00s. Consider Gamergate, the Internet Research Agency, fake news, the internet-fueled rise of the so-called alt-right, Pizzagate, QAnon, Elsagate and the ongoing horrors of kids YouTube, Facebook’s role in fanning the flames of genocide, Cambridge Analytica, and so much more.

“In many ways, I think it [the malaise] is a bit about us being let down by something that many of us really truly believed in,” says Marwick. Even those who were more realistic about tech—and foresaw its misuse—are stunned by the extent of the problem, she says. “You have to come to terms with the fact that not only were you wrong, but even the bad consequences that many of us did foretell were nowhere near as bad as the actual consequences that either happened or are going to happen.”

"Part of the problem, Phillips says, is that most users don’t think about the ramifications of every retweet, or Facebook post, or upvote. Without a sense of communal impact or personal responsibility, it’s increasingly difficult to expect a shift towards less toxic behavior and amplification."

So very much this. Stop engaging with extremist content.
You're:
making each other angry;
earning extremist media ad revenue for reach;
making extremist clickbait "a good investment";
giving extremist organisations visibility.

Be prudent with your engagement.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 09:50 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
More like if you ban white supremacists, ban black supremacists too. Farrakhan is not left wing as I define the left. He is, however, painted by the GOP as left wing in order to tarnish liberals.

Take this American Spectator article which attempts to paint the left-wing as anti-semitics. Farrakhan, The Left, and Anti-Semitism

He's not a Democratic Party figure, for example. Just where do his beliefs cross over left-wing territory except his hatred of white supremacists?
A religious extremists who uses others' faith to enrich and empower himself and preaches hate against gays, Jews, the government and thinks women should be subservient to men?

If he was running the Nation of Christianity, the Oval Office would have his number hard wired into speed dial.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 09:51 AM   #496
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Relevant, IMHO:

"The Existential Crisis Plaguing Online Extremism Researchers"

https://www.wired.com/story/existent...m-researchers/




"Part of the problem, Phillips says, is that most users donít think about the ramifications of every retweet, or Facebook post, or upvote. Without a sense of communal impact or personal responsibility, itís increasingly difficult to expect a shift towards less toxic behavior and amplification."

So very much this. Stop engaging with extremist content.
You're:
making each other angry;
earning extremist media ad revenue for reach;
making extremist clickbait "a good investment";
giving extremist organisations visibility.

Be prudent with your engagement.
Hallelujah! I keep saying this. Don't ignore them, but certainly don't get into it with them.
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Old 4th May 2019, 12:42 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
A religious extremists who uses others' faith to enrich and empower himself and preaches hate against gays, Jews, the government and thinks women should be subservient to men?

If he was running the Nation of Christianity, the Oval Office would have his number hard wired into speed dial.
HOW VERY DARE YOU

Don't be ridiculous.


Unless you are saying he also became white
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Old 4th May 2019, 01:11 PM   #498
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And Trump shows his even further alt-white views by Tweeting about how unfair it is Zuckerberg controls the banning of Jones. It's another move toward Trump's authoritarian wet dream.
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Old 4th May 2019, 01:34 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And Trump shows his even further alt-white views by Tweeting about how unfair it is (((Zuckerberg))) controls the banning of Jones. It's another move toward Trump's authoritarian wet dream.
Minor suggested correction
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Old 4th May 2019, 02:05 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Minor suggested correction
Yeah, Trump used "big corporation" or something like that. I think Trump focuses on his perceived enemies. I think he meant Zuckerberg.
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Old 4th May 2019, 04:11 PM   #501
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Meh.

Let us know when Facebook bans communists.
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Old 4th May 2019, 04:16 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Meh.

Let us know when Facebook bans communists.
Ones advocating violence at least.
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Old 4th May 2019, 07:06 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Meh.

Let us know when Facebook bans communists.
Why would they do that?
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Old 4th May 2019, 07:32 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Why would they do that?
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Old 4th May 2019, 09:52 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well...it's true that Farrakhan has done more good in his life than Milo Alyankovich or Infowars' conspiracy theorizing placebo peddlers. He has managed to get high-crime areas under control when police simply refused to do so, as well as providing security for black celebrities when police wouldn't (at this point, black police unions are around to step in when the normal unions and fellowships throw a fit over mild criticisms). People who speak of him fondly usually recall this, and mostly consider his racism and anti-semitism to be all bark and no bite.

However!

Farrakhan's still a hateful SOB who likely had Malcolm X killed for leaving the group, and he's still a conspiracy theorist and a woo peddler who has increasingly strange ties with Scientology. Saying he's done more good than Infowars - that bar isn't low, it doesn't even exist. If he's on the wrong side of an anti-hate policy, then the policy is being applied properly.
You already did more good than Alex Jones or Infowars by being born and thereby becoming a member of the human race.
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Old 4th May 2019, 10:43 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Why would they do that?
Some people think there is like for like equivalence of left and right between "communists" and "nazis"; that communists are the left wing version of nazis.

This is false equivalence, and a very politically naive viewpoint.. a noobie mistake.
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Old 5th May 2019, 01:22 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Why would they do that?
Threatening Facebook's future profits?
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Old 5th May 2019, 03:39 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Some people think there is like for like equivalence of left and right between "communists" and "nazis"; that communists are the left wing version of nazis.

This is false equivalence, and a very politically naive viewpoint.. a noobie mistake.
See, this is why I like you. We are pretty far apart politically speaking, but you actually seem to know what you are talking about. Unlike so many others on here.

Much respect for your no BS attitude.
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Old 5th May 2019, 03:50 AM   #509
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So you're saying communists never killed people!
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:10 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
So you're saying communists never killed people!
If only there was a spurious rule of so to invoke.

As that was a stupid way to avoid a substantive response.

Communists are not the left-wing equivalent of Nazis. Stalinists might be, Maoists might be.

That's not to say that Communism is a good idea, or that I think it can work. It's pointing out that advocating non-violent redistribution of wealth and reordering of society along Communist principles is a valid approach. One might plausibly argue that the end goal would lead to many deaths in that case, but unlike Nazism those deaths are not the goal. In Nazism, the deaths are the goal.
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:19 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
If only there was a spurious rule of so to invoke.

As that was a stupid way to avoid a substantive response.

Communists are not the left-wing equivalent of Nazis. Stalinists might be, Maoists might be.

That's not to say that Communism is a good idea, or that I think it can work. It's pointing out that advocating non-violent redistribution of wealth and reordering of society along Communist principles is a valid approach. One might plausibly argue that the end goal would lead to many deaths in that case, but unlike Nazism those deaths are not the goal. In Nazism, the deaths are the goal.
Nailed it.
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:26 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
So you're saying communists never killed people!

Would you please mention one group of people where nobody ever killed anybody?
Stalin represents communists the same way Hitler represents vegetarians.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:36 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Would you please mention one group of people where nobody ever killed anybody?
Stalin represents communists the same way Hitler represents vegetarians.
I wonder how the people in this thread feels about twenty years of US troops in Iraq, or the fact that asian factories need to install "suicide nets" so we can all get affordable smartphones.
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Old 5th May 2019, 10:58 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
So you're saying communists never killed people!
Yes, that is definitely what posters in this thread have stated. And you are definitely a mentally well individual because you actually saw those words that other people definitely typed.
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Old 5th May 2019, 11:19 AM   #515
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Probably just typed by some of those childless Europeans....
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Old 5th May 2019, 11:40 AM   #516
Trebuchet
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Facebook banning extremists is a violation of the first amendment because it's a public company! So there!

So, go get a court order!
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:35 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
If only there was a spurious rule of so to invoke.

As that was a stupid way to avoid a substantive response.

Communists are not the left-wing equivalent of Nazis. Stalinists might be, Maoists might be.

That's not to say that Communism is a good idea, or that I think it can work. It's pointing out that advocating non-violent redistribution of wealth and reordering of society along Communist principles is a valid approach. One might plausibly argue that the end goal would lead to many deaths in that case, but unlike Nazism those deaths are not the goal. In Nazism, the deaths are the goal.
"non-violent redistribution of wealth" That's not at all oxymoronic.

Many horrendous atrocities are part and parcel when it comes to communism. Dispossession, starvation, and war on people of faith. Your Muslim brethren in UKGBNI would be stripped of their Religion of Peace if the declared communists of this forum got their way.

Last edited by Baylor; 5th May 2019 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:58 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
"non-violent redistribution of wealth" That's not at all oxymoronic.

Many horrendous atrocities are part and parcel when it comes to communism. Dispossession, starvation, and war on people of faith. Your Muslim brethren in UKGBNI would be stripped of their Religion of Peace if the declared communists of this forum got their way.

As we all know, the dispossession practiced by capitalism from the very beginning, for instance enclosure, slavery and unemployment, was and is completely non-violent, based exclusively on the enthusiastic willingness of peasants and workers to be poor and bereft of all means of sustaining themselves. That's what makes the wonderful world of the market economy superior to any other mode of production.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 5th May 2019, 03:19 PM   #519
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This isn't about capitalism. This is about self-declared communists posting on the ISF forum who want to strip Muslims of their right to practice their religion. Banning religion is part and parcel in communism and it's shocking that members of this forum want to do that to their fellow countrymen.
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Old 5th May 2019, 06:35 PM   #520
I Am The Scum
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What on earth are you talking about?
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