Covid-19 and Politics - Page 81

Darat · 16th July 2020, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Planigale

There are preparations going on for a winter second peak, and there have been for some time. Modelling suggesting the second peak goes back to March. One of the paradoxes is the more effective controls are now potentially the worse the peak might be!

Could you let the PM know?

Mojo · 16th July 2020, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by Planigale

There are preparations going on for a winter second peak, and there have been for some time. Modelling suggesting the second peak goes back to March. One of the paradoxes is the more effective controls are now potentially the worse the peak might be!

Originally Posted by Darat

Could you let the PM know?

He’s already doing his best to minimise the second peak.

Mojo · 16th July 2020, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

I recommend a 'Listerian Antiseptic Aerator' for your office; a wonderful piece of nineteenth century medical technology. Basically a small steam engine that vapourises a mist of carbolic acid (i.e. phenol) to kill any pathogens in the vicinity.
Perfect for the House of Commons, Cabinet Office et cetera.

Sounds a bit like the “Carbolic Smoke Ball”.

angrysoba · 16th July 2020, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Planigale

There are preparations going on for a winter second peak, and there have been for some time. Modelling suggesting the second peak goes back to March. One of the paradoxes is the more effective controls are now potentially the worse the peak might be!

Would this be confirmed if, say, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand etc...had devastating second peaks, whereas the UK, the US and Brazil just sailed through it?

Or are talking in terms of relative to the first peak, in which case any number of deaths in South Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand could look bad?

catsmate · 16th July 2020, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Sounds a bit like the “Carbolic Smoke Ball”.

Ah, Asquith...

Yep they both used 'carbolic' (i.e. phenol) which was a popular antiseptic; Lister's device was a serious (if deeply unsafe) attempt to reduce infections while the Smoke Ball was a stunt.

jimbob · 16th July 2020, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Would this be confirmed if, say, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand etc...had devastating second peaks, whereas the UK, the US and Brazil just sailed through it?

Or are talking in terms of relative to the first peak, in which case any number of deaths in South Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand could look bad?

Indeed.

Given the uncertainty over how long immunity lasts, it is possible that the first wave will do nothing to the second wave beyond killing people earlier. And, by having a higher level in the population (the decline is slow in many places) making it bigger.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 16th July 2020, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Indeed.

Given the uncertainty over how long immunity lasts, it is possible that the first wave will do nothing to the second wave beyond killing people earlier. And, by having a higher level in the population (the decline is slow in many places) making it bigger.

Oh, the second wave should kill fewer people, because the first was unexpected. The government have had time to prepare for a second wave, and will have not only ensured there are things like stockpiles of PPE and drugs, they'll also have been recruiting and training new staff in relevant fields, preparing new strategies after learning from the old ones, and ensuring that the public are well-informed and prepared.

I'm sure that's how it's going to play out.

The Don · 16th July 2020, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Oh, the second wave should kill fewer people, because the first was unexpected. The government have had time to prepare for a second wave, and will have not only ensured there are things like stockpiles of PPE and drugs, they'll also have been recruiting and training new staff in relevant fields, preparing new strategies after learning from the old ones, and ensuring that the public are well-informed and prepared.

I'm sure that's how it's going to play out.

I'm sure it will.

After all the current UK government (and the couple that preceded it) is world renowned for its ability to prepare in advance for things, for its level of attention to detail, its skill at executing a previously defined plan, its regard for experts and its ability to stick to its guns for the good of the country regardless of any short-term popularity issues.

If anyone needs any evidence of the above, they only need to look at the masterful way that the government handled the Brexit process and is handling the negotiations with the EU for the ongoing relationship after the transition period has expired.

The Don · 16th July 2020, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Would this be confirmed if, say, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand etc...had devastating second peaks, whereas the UK, the US and Brazil just sailed through it?

Or are talking in terms of relative to the first peak, in which case any number of deaths in South Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand could look bad?

There could conceivably be something to it if:

Countries like the UK had a significant majority of people infected in the first wave
Being infected provided long-term immunity

Unfortunately, despite the number of deaths, the proportion of people who have been infected is still in the mid-single digits and as has been pointed out in all the Covid-19 threads, both the proportion of people who have been infected who gain immunity and the length of time for which that immunity lasts are being questioned.

There's no reason to assume that the UK would handle the second wave any better, or that for the same competence in dealing with the second wave that the impact would be any less severe.

Likewise, there's no reason to assume that New Zealand would suddenly become incompetent and/or that the impact would be higher, not least because their first wave was during Autumn/Winter.

The Don · 16th July 2020, 06:55 AM

More good news for those of us living in Wales:

Quote:

No new deaths of people in Wales with coronavirus have been reported, with the total now standing at 1,545.

Public Health Wales (PHW) said there were 18 new cases reported, meaning 16,871 people have tested positive for Covid-19.

The figures have been revised to include tests carried out at non-NHS laboratories.

It is the fifth day in the last 10 that no deaths with Covid-19 have been announced in Wales.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51888681

Wales, and in particular the health board where I live, the Aneurin Bevan Health Board was hit particularly badly at the start of the outbreak. While some of the poorest parts of Wales still feature prominently in the lists of worst affected areas per capita, it seems that a lot of that data is historic and Coronavirus is currently nearly under control in Wales.

My local area, Monmouthshire, has only had a handful of confirmed cases in the past month and has gone as long as a week with no cases whatsoever. We are compromised by our proximity to England and the fact that a lot of people here work, and shop, over the border which means that there is a risk of returning with the virus.

I hope that the Welsh government continues to be cautious in lifting the lockdown restrictions and that the majority of people and businesses in Wales continue to act responsibly. For example, our local pub has chosen not to re-open for outside service because they feel that they cannot do so without compromising the safety of their staff and patrons. The vast majority of the comments to their announcement to this effect on Facebook were supportive and I'm sure that the support they have received for their takeaway service will continue.

Rolfe · 16th July 2020, 07:05 AM

I'm getting more and more inclined to shout "speak for yourself" in all this. There is no such thing as "the UK" in terms of coronavirus planning or response, not any more.

I'm not sure where to find the full modelling document, but the modellers' estimate of the number of people in Scotland who are infectious with coronavirus right now is estimated at 700. That's not the number of actual people tested and known about, which is considerably smaller, it's the number of people the statisticians believe to be actually infected calculating back from all the data available. That is 0.013% of the population or about one person in every eight thousand.

The political determination appears to be there to prevent this turning into a second wave and the public health teams seem to be on it and getting better by the week. The one thing I'm not confident about is the resolve to institute travel restrictions from outwith Scotland should that turn out to be necessary, and if that's the cause of us getting involved in a second wave happening elsewhere we will know who to blame.

There are four regions of Scotland which haven't had any cases at all for weeks. We're still damping it down elsewhere but that is being done. If England wants to have a second wave of sickness and death we do not want any part of it.

Captain_Swoop · 16th July 2020, 07:23 AM

Matt Hancock says the govt is "rolling out new cutting-edge predictive technology" to forecast coronavirus hospitalisations.

.

The Don · 16th July 2020, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Matt Hancock says the govt is "rolling out new cutting-edge predictive technology" to forecast coronavirus hospitalisations.

.

Yes, where lockdown restrictions are lifted, Coronavirus hospitalisations are likely to increase.

Where they are retained, or reimposed they Coronavirus hospitalisations are likely to fall.

Unless of course Dom has worked out the graphing functions in Excel.

Rolfe · 16th July 2020, 08:14 AM

Each one of these is a potential human tragedy. The Westminster government needs to stop thinking of them as statistics and points on a spreadsheet and start thinking about how to prevent these tragedies.

How long is it going to take the English population in particular to look at what's happening in other countries and realise that their own government is casually putting them in danger whereas other major industrial nations (with the conspicuous exception of the USA) are actually trying to protect their citizens?

Darat · 16th July 2020, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Matt Hancock says the govt is "rolling out new cutting-edge predictive technology" to forecast coronavirus hospitalisations.

.

SuperPredictor to the rescue!!!!!!!!

catsmate · 16th July 2020, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Each one of these is a potential human tragedy. The Westminster government needs to stop thinking of them as statistics and points on a spreadsheet and start thinking about how to prevent these tragedies.

How long is it going to take the English population in particular to look at what's happening in other countries and realise that their own government is casually putting them in danger whereas other major industrial nations (with the conspicuous exception of the USA) are actually trying to protect their citizens?

Well they swallowed Brexit so they're not that bright.

The Don · 16th July 2020, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Each one of these is a potential human tragedy. The Westminster government needs to stop thinking of them as statistics and points on a spreadsheet and start thinking about how to prevent these tragedies.

How long is it going to take the English population in particular to look at what's happening in other countries and realise that their own government is casually putting them in danger whereas other major industrial nations (with the conspicuous exception of the USA) are actually trying to protect their citizens?

The UK Government seems to be driven almost exclusively by the need for positive publicity.

Opening up pubs and restaurants, having major sporting events on the TV and being able to go on your holidays all generate positive headlines.

Having had very high daily deaths a few months ago mean that even "66 people died in the UK of Coronavirus today" generates somewhat positive headlines.

Until and unless people start to react negatively to the number of new cases and/or number of deaths then the UK Government doesn't care. Even then, they'll have a jolly good go at blaming the public for failing to be alert rather than accepting responsibility for their lack of leadership and inability to provide good guidance to the public.

The public on the other hand are just happy to be in the pub or on the beach. I don't see the prospect of disgruntlement unless the numbers of cases and deaths return to their peaks and the weather turns in the autumn and people are less likely to go out and have fun.

Mojo · 16th July 2020, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Matt Hancock says the govt is "rolling out new cutting-edge predictive technology" to forecast coronavirus hospitalisations.

.

Then again, yesterday he said face masks would be compulsory in takeaways, while today: Face masks not compulsory in takeaways in England, says Sharma

Quote:

Only 24 hours earlier the health secretary, Matt Hancock, couldn’t have been clearer, declaring that new rules will mean that people grabbing a takeaway from a sandwich shop must wear a face mask.

But now his cabinet colleague, Alok Sharma, has claimed that face coverings will be only a recommendation – not compulsory – for people going into cafes for takeaway food.

Rolfe · 16th July 2020, 09:54 AM

It's depressing. I only hope there is a vaccine soon. I wonder if Johnson is secretly banking on that to get him out of this.

zooterkin · 17th July 2020, 04:21 AM

Thread closed due to size.

Continues here.

Posted By:zooterkin

16th July 2020, 02:32 AM	#3201
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,809	Originally Posted by Planigale There are preparations going on for a winter second peak, and there have been for some time. Modelling suggesting the second peak goes back to March. One of the paradoxes is the more effective controls are now potentially the worse the peak might be! Could you let the PM know?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

16th July 2020, 02:43 AM	#3202
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 35,778	Originally Posted by Planigale There are preparations going on for a winter second peak, and there have been for some time. Modelling suggesting the second peak goes back to March. One of the paradoxes is the more effective controls are now potentially the worse the peak might be! Originally Posted by Darat Could you let the PM know? He’s already doing his best to minimise the second peak.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

16th July 2020, 02:47 AM	#3203
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 35,778	Originally Posted by catsmate I recommend a 'Listerian Antiseptic Aerator' for your office; a wonderful piece of nineteenth century medical technology. Basically a small steam engine that vapourises a mist of carbolic acid (i.e. phenol) to kill any pathogens in the vicinity. Perfect for the House of Commons, Cabinet Office et cetera. Sounds a bit like the “Carbolic Smoke Ball”.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

16th July 2020, 03:51 AM	#3204
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 32,788	Originally Posted by Planigale There are preparations going on for a winter second peak, and there have been for some time. Modelling suggesting the second peak goes back to March. One of the paradoxes is the more effective controls are now potentially the worse the peak might be! Would this be confirmed if, say, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand etc...had devastating second peaks, whereas the UK, the US and Brazil just sailed through it? Or are talking in terms of relative to the first peak, in which case any number of deaths in South Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand could look bad?
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

16th July 2020, 03:58 AM	#3205
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,913	Originally Posted by Mojo Sounds a bit like the “Carbolic Smoke Ball”. Ah, Asquith... Yep they both used 'carbolic' (i.e. phenol) which was a popular antiseptic; Lister's device was a serious (if deeply unsafe) attempt to reduce infections while the Smoke Ball was a stunt.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

16th July 2020, 04:01 AM	#3206
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25,583	Originally Posted by angrysoba Would this be confirmed if, say, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand etc...had devastating second peaks, whereas the UK, the US and Brazil just sailed through it? Or are talking in terms of relative to the first peak, in which case any number of deaths in South Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand could look bad? Indeed. Given the uncertainty over how long immunity lasts, it is possible that the first wave will do nothing to the second wave beyond killing people earlier. And, by having a higher level in the population (the decline is slow in many places) making it bigger.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

16th July 2020, 04:59 AM	#3207
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 32,124	Originally Posted by jimbob Indeed. Given the uncertainty over how long immunity lasts, it is possible that the first wave will do nothing to the second wave beyond killing people earlier. And, by having a higher level in the population (the decline is slow in many places) making it bigger. Oh, the second wave should kill fewer people, because the first was unexpected. The government have had time to prepare for a second wave, and will have not only ensured there are things like stockpiles of PPE and drugs, they'll also have been recruiting and training new staff in relevant fields, preparing new strategies after learning from the old ones, and ensuring that the public are well-informed and prepared. I'm sure that's how it's going to play out.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

16th July 2020, 06:17 AM	#3208
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Oh, the second wave should kill fewer people, because the first was unexpected. The government have had time to prepare for a second wave, and will have not only ensured there are things like stockpiles of PPE and drugs, they'll also have been recruiting and training new staff in relevant fields, preparing new strategies after learning from the old ones, and ensuring that the public are well-informed and prepared. I'm sure that's how it's going to play out. I'm sure it will. After all the current UK government (and the couple that preceded it) is world renowned for its ability to prepare in advance for things, for its level of attention to detail, its skill at executing a previously defined plan, its regard for experts and its ability to stick to its guns for the good of the country regardless of any short-term popularity issues. If anyone needs any evidence of the above, they only need to look at the masterful way that the government handled the Brexit process and is handling the negotiations with the EU for the ongoing relationship after the transition period has expired.

16th July 2020, 06:23 AM	#3209
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	Originally Posted by angrysoba Would this be confirmed if, say, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand etc...had devastating second peaks, whereas the UK, the US and Brazil just sailed through it? Or are talking in terms of relative to the first peak, in which case any number of deaths in South Korea, Taiwan and New Zealand could look bad? There could conceivably be something to it if: Countries like the UK had a significant majority of people infected in the first wave Being infected provided long-term immunity Unfortunately, despite the number of deaths, the proportion of people who have been infected is still in the mid-single digits and as has been pointed out in all the Covid-19 threads, both the proportion of people who have been infected who gain immunity and the length of time for which that immunity lasts are being questioned. There's no reason to assume that the UK would handle the second wave any better, or that for the same competence in dealing with the second wave that the impact would be any less severe. Likewise, there's no reason to assume that New Zealand would suddenly become incompetent and/or that the impact would be higher, not least because their first wave was during Autumn/Winter.

16th July 2020, 06:55 AM	#3210
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	More good news for those of us living in Wales: Quote: No new deaths of people in Wales with coronavirus have been reported, with the total now standing at 1,545. Public Health Wales (PHW) said there were 18 new cases reported, meaning 16,871 people have tested positive for Covid-19. The figures have been revised to include tests carried out at non-NHS laboratories. It is the fifth day in the last 10 that no deaths with Covid-19 have been announced in Wales. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51888681 Wales, and in particular the health board where I live, the Aneurin Bevan Health Board was hit particularly badly at the start of the outbreak. While some of the poorest parts of Wales still feature prominently in the lists of worst affected areas per capita, it seems that a lot of that data is historic and Coronavirus is currently nearly under control in Wales. My local area, Monmouthshire, has only had a handful of confirmed cases in the past month and has gone as long as a week with no cases whatsoever. We are compromised by our proximity to England and the fact that a lot of people here work, and shop, over the border which means that there is a risk of returning with the virus. I hope that the Welsh government continues to be cautious in lifting the lockdown restrictions and that the majority of people and businesses in Wales continue to act responsibly. For example, our local pub has chosen not to re-open for outside service because they feel that they cannot do so without compromising the safety of their staff and patrons. The vast majority of the comments to their announcement to this effect on Facebook were supportive and I'm sure that the support they have received for their takeaway service will continue.

16th July 2020, 07:05 AM	#3211
Rolfe Adult human female Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 48,076	I'm getting more and more inclined to shout "speak for yourself" in all this. There is no such thing as "the UK" in terms of coronavirus planning or response, not any more. I'm not sure where to find the full modelling document, but the modellers' estimate of the number of people in Scotland who are infectious with coronavirus right now is estimated at 700. That's not the number of actual people tested and known about, which is considerably smaller, it's the number of people the statisticians believe to be actually infected calculating back from all the data available. That is 0.013% of the population or about one person in every eight thousand. The political determination appears to be there to prevent this turning into a second wave and the public health teams seem to be on it and getting better by the week. The one thing I'm not confident about is the resolve to institute travel restrictions from outwith Scotland should that turn out to be necessary, and if that's the cause of us getting involved in a second wave happening elsewhere we will know who to blame. There are four regions of Scotland which haven't had any cases at all for weeks. We're still damping it down elsewhere but that is being done. If England wants to have a second wave of sickness and death we do not want any part of it.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

16th July 2020, 07:23 AM	#3212
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,154	Matt Hancock says the govt is "rolling out new cutting-edge predictive technology" to forecast coronavirus hospitalisations. .

16th July 2020, 08:11 AM	#3213
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Matt Hancock says the govt is "rolling out new cutting-edge predictive technology" to forecast coronavirus hospitalisations. . Yes, where lockdown restrictions are lifted, Coronavirus hospitalisations are likely to increase. Where they are retained, or reimposed they Coronavirus hospitalisations are likely to fall. Unless of course Dom has worked out the graphing functions in Excel.

16th July 2020, 08:14 AM	#3214
Rolfe Adult human female Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 48,076	Each one of these is a potential human tragedy. The Westminster government needs to stop thinking of them as statistics and points on a spreadsheet and start thinking about how to prevent these tragedies. How long is it going to take the English population in particular to look at what's happening in other countries and realise that their own government is casually putting them in danger whereas other major industrial nations (with the conspicuous exception of the USA) are actually trying to protect their citizens?
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

16th July 2020, 08:20 AM	#3215
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,809	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Matt Hancock says the govt is "rolling out new cutting-edge predictive technology" to forecast coronavirus hospitalisations. . SuperPredictor to the rescue!!!!!!!!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

16th July 2020, 08:27 AM	#3216
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,913	Originally Posted by Rolfe Each one of these is a potential human tragedy. The Westminster government needs to stop thinking of them as statistics and points on a spreadsheet and start thinking about how to prevent these tragedies. How long is it going to take the English population in particular to look at what's happening in other countries and realise that their own government is casually putting them in danger whereas other major industrial nations (with the conspicuous exception of the USA) are actually trying to protect their citizens? Well they swallowed Brexit so they're not that bright.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

16th July 2020, 08:33 AM	#3217
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	Originally Posted by Rolfe Each one of these is a potential human tragedy. The Westminster government needs to stop thinking of them as statistics and points on a spreadsheet and start thinking about how to prevent these tragedies. How long is it going to take the English population in particular to look at what's happening in other countries and realise that their own government is casually putting them in danger whereas other major industrial nations (with the conspicuous exception of the USA) are actually trying to protect their citizens? The UK Government seems to be driven almost exclusively by the need for positive publicity. Opening up pubs and restaurants, having major sporting events on the TV and being able to go on your holidays all generate positive headlines. Having had very high daily deaths a few months ago mean that even "66 people died in the UK of Coronavirus today" generates somewhat positive headlines. Until and unless people start to react negatively to the number of new cases and/or number of deaths then the UK Government doesn't care. Even then, they'll have a jolly good go at blaming the public for failing to be alert rather than accepting responsibility for their lack of leadership and inability to provide good guidance to the public. The public on the other hand are just happy to be in the pub or on the beach. I don't see the prospect of disgruntlement unless the numbers of cases and deaths return to their peaks and the weather turns in the autumn and people are less likely to go out and have fun.

16th July 2020, 09:46 AM	#3218
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 35,778	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Matt Hancock says the govt is "rolling out new cutting-edge predictive technology" to forecast coronavirus hospitalisations. . Then again, yesterday he said face masks would be compulsory in takeaways, while today: Face masks not compulsory in takeaways in England, says Sharma Quote: Only 24 hours earlier the health secretary, Matt Hancock, couldn’t have been clearer, declaring that new rules will mean that people grabbing a takeaway from a sandwich shop must wear a face mask. But now his cabinet colleague, Alok Sharma, has claimed that face coverings will be only a recommendation – not compulsory – for people going into cafes for takeaway food.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

16th July 2020, 09:54 AM	#3219
Rolfe Adult human female Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 48,076	It's depressing. I only hope there is a vaccine soon. I wonder if Johnson is secretly banking on that to get him out of this.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.