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Old 21st May 2017, 12:27 AM   #441
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
What happened to him? Didn't he once have a reputation as a serious journalist?
He still has a reputation as a serious journalist.
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Old 21st May 2017, 01:36 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's plausible Assange feared the extradition he cited. To dismiss that goes back to that dislike of Assange bias.
Possible but doubtful. He could have escalated to the ECJ which would almost certainly have not allowed the extradition to the US. As for Bias... I consider the disclosure of the spy stuff to be on point and needed. So what bias could I have ? Speaking of bias , that you jumped to a possible bias on my side betray a certain bias on yours, doesn't it ?
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Old 21st May 2017, 06:47 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's plausible Assange feared the extradition he cited. To dismiss that goes back to that dislike of Assange bias.
It's possible he fears it, but it's utterly irrational. Why would he run a higher risk that Sweden would extradite him to the USA than that the UK, America's favorite lapdog, would? It requires quite some cognitive dissonance.

ETA: on top of that, the Obama administration has repeatedly said they were not interested in him. And the Obama administration always held consistent views. Now, more than ever, with a president with a vocal penchant for locking up journalists, and a British Tory administration with an anti-human rights bias, he should be more afraid than ever.
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Old 21st May 2017, 09:04 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Possible but doubtful. He could have escalated to the ECJ which would almost certainly have not allowed the extradition to the US. As for Bias... I consider the disclosure of the spy stuff to be on point and needed. So what bias could I have ? Speaking of bias , that you jumped to a possible bias on my side betray a certain bias on yours, doesn't it ?
Why are you so sure about that? Extradition is controlled by treaties between countries, and both Sweden and the UK have extradition treaties with the U.S. Assange is not a citizen of either country. Why would you think either one wouldn't turn him over? He and his lawyers certainly think it could happen. And of course there is the possibility of an extrajudicial grab if somebody can get to him.
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Old 21st May 2017, 09:30 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why are you so sure about that? Extradition is controlled by treaties between countries, and both Sweden and the UK have extradition treaties with the U.S. Assange is not a citizen of either country. Why would you think either one wouldn't turn him over? He and his lawyers certainly think it could happen. And of course there is the possibility of an extrajudicial grab if somebody can get to him.
While the EAW was in effect extradition from Sweden to the USA would have required the agreement of both Swedish and UK governments. Swedish law specifically forbids extradition for political crimes and it would be a very very brave Swedish govt that bowed that way.
UK governments of all stripes have been bending over and greasing up for successive US governments of all stripes for many years.
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Old 21st May 2017, 10:47 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Possible but doubtful. He could have escalated to the ECJ which would almost certainly have not allowed the extradition to the US. As for Bias... I consider the disclosure of the spy stuff to be on point and needed. So what bias could I have ? Speaking of bias , that you jumped to a possible bias on my side betray a certain bias on yours, doesn't it ?
We all have a bias, but mine isn't because I like or dislike Assange. I dislike him. But the women never complained until they found out about each other and asked him for an HIV test which he refused, IOW, he dissed them. In addition the prosecutor had issues which you can go back and look. The original prosecutor who looked at the complaint didn't find it prosecutable.

So either you think we have to believe all women no matter the circumstances, or you despise Assange or both, this is not a believable accusation.

That is my bias.

It is unfortunate it pisses people off that I disagree with them (see tyr_13's ad hom). I'm not pissed off that people disagree with me. One isn't denying facts because one doesn't believe the evidence supports said facts.
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Old 21st May 2017, 10:51 AM   #447
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
It's possible he fears it, but it's utterly irrational.
No one said Assange's beliefs were rational.

The guy thinks everything posted on Wikileaks is good and he's a hero. That's not rational either.

People get railroaded in the legal system all the time. Under the circumstances, I fail to see how hiding out in the Ecuadorian Embassy is an admission of guilt by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 21st May 2017, 11:57 AM   #448
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[deleted after further reading]

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Old 21st May 2017, 01:29 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
He still has a reputation as a serious journalist.
Not after that piece.
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Old 21st May 2017, 06:14 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
He still has a reputation as a serious journalist.
It's just that this reputation only holds with people of a certain political perspective. It's not the reputation of an objective journalist.

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Old 21st May 2017, 06:24 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why are you so sure about that? Extradition is controlled by treaties between countries, and both Sweden and the UK have extradition treaties with the U.S. Assange is not a citizen of either country. Why would you think either one wouldn't turn him over? He and his lawyers certainly think it could happen. And of course there is the possibility of an extrajudicial grab if somebody can get to him.
In addition to what Wudang has already explained, it's also significant that Sweden has a history of harboring American traitors. Political enemies of the US have more than once found safe haven there.
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Old 21st May 2017, 08:51 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In addition to what Wudang has already explained, it's also significant that Sweden has a history of harboring American traitors. Political enemies of the US have more than once found safe haven there.
You'd have to be more specific to make a comparison. If you're talking about Vietnam-era war protesters, "traitor" is quite a stretch. Many people here and around the world thought the U.S. was the war criminal at the time. But Assange is not American, so he can't claim to be seeking asylum from his own oppressive government. And quite a number of commentators seem to think that the U.S. has exerted substantial pressure on Sweden to give him up and will continue to do so. They really don't have any obvious reason to protect him. They could simply decide that the dispute is between Assange and the U.S., and that it doesn't involve them.

ETA: Foreign Policy, a serious journal, contended in 2014 that Sweden probably wouldn't extradite him for a charge of espionage, but might do so if the charge was theft or cybercrime. And as I noted, he also has reason to worry about being grabbed off the street, something the U.S. has done before.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/18...united-states/

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Old 21st May 2017, 09:49 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No one said Assange's beliefs were rational.

The guy thinks everything posted on Wikileaks is good and he's a hero. That's not rational either.

People get railroaded in the legal system all the time. Under the circumstances, I fail to see how hiding out in the Ecuadorian Embassy is an admission of guilt by any stretch of the imagination.
His fears are entirely rational. The US is a hyperviolent rogue state that repeatedly ignores international law, locks people up for years without charge, keeps them imprisoned even after it has admitted that they are innocent, and murders and tortures people all over the world with impunity in secret prisons.

US politicians, including Hillary Clinton, have expressed a desire to have Assange murdered.
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Old 21st May 2017, 09:51 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not after that piece.
Which piece?
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Old 21st May 2017, 10:11 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Which piece?
Just pick one at random

https://www.greenleft.org.au/content...mp-and-clinton
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Old 21st May 2017, 10:27 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You'd have to be more specific to make a comparison. If you're talking about Vietnam-era war protesters, "traitor" is quite a stretch.
I'm talking about literal traitors who sought asylum in Sweden and found asylum there. If you don't know about this, then you're not competent to discuss this.

But Julian Assange is competent. He went to Sweden originally because of its strong protections against US extradition.

For Assange to flee FROM Sweden TO the UK makes no sense, from a US point of view.

The only reason for that is if he's more worried about about rape charges in Sweden than about extradition to the US.
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Old 21st May 2017, 10:59 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm talking about literal traitors who sought asylum in Sweden and found asylum there. If you don't know about this, then you're not competent to discuss this.

But Julian Assange is competent. He went to Sweden originally because of its strong protections against US extradition.
.....
Assange is not American. He cannot be a traitor to the U.S. because he owes it no allegiance.

Only a handful of people have ever been convicted of treason against the U.S. If you think the Vietnam-era draft resisters who sought asylum in Sweden were "traitors," you are misusing the word and expressing a political opinion with which many would disagree.

In any case, what Sweden did for Americans 50 years ago has nothing to do with what they might do today to an Australian to maintain good relations with the U.S.
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Old 21st May 2017, 11:53 PM   #458
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Assange is not American. He cannot be a traitor to the U.S. because he owes it no allegiance.
He also can't be charged with espionage or mishandling classified material, because he was never given access to sensitive information in confidence. The crimes were committed by Manning, who was convicted and sentenced. Assange is a step removed from the entire process. It is irrational to believe the US is or ever was actively pursuing extradition of Assange beyond an exploratory consideration stage.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 05:32 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
He also can't be charged with espionage or mishandling classified material, because he was never given access to sensitive information in confidence. The crimes were committed by Manning, who was convicted and sentenced. Assange is a step removed from the entire process. It is irrational to believe the US is or ever was actively pursuing extradition of Assange beyond an exploratory consideration stage.
According to Sessions, they apparently are now, although my conspiratorial side says that that's just a cover for Assange; sort of a "say you're out to get me so I'll keep being relevant". Quid-pro-quo for services rendered.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 10:31 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Assange is not American. He cannot be a traitor to the U.S. because he owes it no allegiance.

Only a handful of people have ever been convicted of treason against the U.S. If you think the Vietnam-era draft resisters who sought asylum in Sweden were "traitors," you are misusing the word and expressing a political opinion with which many would disagree.

In any case, what Sweden did for Americans 50 years ago has nothing to do with what they might do today to an Australian to maintain good relations with the U.S.
Correct, but you are forgetting that everyone owes allegiance to the global US empire, which, due being a shining light on the hill, has the right to destroy any country it chooses, let alone whichever individuals are on the kill list this Tuesday. Journalists who do not tow the line deserve to be smeared, imprisoned, tortured and/or murdered. They are traitors. Welcome to the incredible, delusional arrogance of American exceptionalism.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 11:41 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Which piece?
The one you quoted linked to.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 11:56 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
The one you quoted linked to.
Right. Feel free to present some kind of argument in support of your assertions.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 07:35 PM   #463
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The US wouldn't get anything for prosecuting Assange even if they had a crime to prosecute him for. He's not essential to the continuation of wikileaks, and even if he were wikileaks itself is just a platform. Any website or blog could take its place.

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Old 13th June 2017, 05:15 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
so all you have is your guess work and biased assumption, yes very skeptical.

And the info from CNN that, yes, at the end the US Government was indeed after Assange
After all
but they will not grab him, my guess is that he will be in Moscow in two or three months
With the sound disappointment of all the freedom haters and the parrots braiinwashed of the regime
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Old 13th June 2017, 06:06 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by Antonio Coceri View Post
my guess is that he will be in Moscow in two or three months
Well, that would involve him leaving the embassy, at which point PC Plod will arrest him for jumping bail.

You still haven't answered why Assange would find the UK a safer place from US extradition than Sweden...which has been the key of pretty much all our arguments here.
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Old 13th June 2017, 07:17 AM   #466
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Antonio Coceri, have you considered that the administration change might have something to do with the current treatment of the Assange matter? That the new regime might want to make a renewed example out of anyone who screws with the U.S.? CNN reports that connections with Snowden are a factor in the renewed charges, so the posters claiming the Sweden angle was wrong probably still have their point and are not exactly wrong. I think it's likely that the current powers would like to see anyone remotely connected to embarrassing/exposing the U.S. be made an example of.
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Old 13th June 2017, 07:31 AM   #467
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If there is some substance (however slight) to the allegation that Wikileaks and/or Assange encouraged Snowden in any way or requested particular data or something that might plausibly suggest the same that Assange was aware of, then perhaps Assange was right to be wary of extradition to the USA.
However as that would be an act of espionage, as previously stated, he would be far safer in Sweden than the the USA's bitch the UK.
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Old 13th June 2017, 10:28 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by Antonio Coceri View Post
Oh, this one is exellent

"The US Government is not currently involved, so I don't know why you keep mentioning it. "
(zooterkin )
And the reason it's so excellent? Was the US Government involved at the time?
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Old 13th June 2017, 12:03 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by Antonio Coceri View Post
I have checked a few writings of you in the past and found this

"Assange has what he always wanted, the undying attention of his ideologically constipated worshipers and a gaggle of unclaimed kids for which he takes no financial responsibility. "
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1629
And I was correct. Thanks.
Edited by zooterkin:  Edited for rule 12
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Old 13th June 2017, 12:26 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
If there is some substance (however slight) to the allegation that Wikileaks and/or Assange encouraged Snowden in any way or requested particular data or something that might plausibly suggest the same that Assange was aware of, then perhaps Assange was right to be wary of extradition to the USA.
However as that would be an act of espionage, as previously stated, he would be far safer in Sweden than the the USA's bitch the UK.
It's a reasonable idea, but Assange applied to Ecuador for asylum in 2012. Edward Snowden was hired by an NSA contractor in 2013.

Antonio Coceri is trying to retcon history so that Assange is telling the truth about things that didn't actually exist at the time.
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Old 13th June 2017, 12:56 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's a reasonable idea, but Assange applied to Ecuador for asylum in 2012. Edward Snowden was hired by an NSA contractor in 2013.

Antonio Coceri is trying to retcon history so that Assange is telling the truth about things that didn't actually exist at the time.
As often happens here, you are parroting what the US Government says without even realizing that you are merely parroting what the US Government says (that is, that Snowden was the real reason of the renewed interest in Assange and that the Leaks had nothing to do with it)



Incredible
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Old 13th June 2017, 01:00 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
If there is some substance (however slight) to the allegation that Wikileaks and/or Assange encouraged Snowden in any way or requested particular data or something that might plausibly suggest the same that Assange was aware of, then perhaps Assange was right to be wary of extradition to the USA.
However as that would be an act of espionage, as previously stated, he would be far safer in Sweden than the the USA's bitch the UK.
Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
And I was correct. Thanks.
Edited by zooterkin:  Edited for rule 12
I am quite happy to have shown you wrong guys (i.e. to see that, when Assange is to have his charges dropped the US Government finally shows his cards), I know that it is impossible to make his head change to a guy who is a true believer on the rightfulness of his own government
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Old 13th June 2017, 01:18 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by Antonio Coceri View Post
As often happens here, you are parroting what the US Government says without even realizing that you are merely parroting what the US Government says (that is, that Snowden was the real reason of the renewed interest in Assange and that the Leaks had nothing to do with it)
You're not making sense. Snowden leaked to Assange. Even in the government version, leaks have everything to do with Snowden-Assange.
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Old 13th June 2017, 02:08 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's a reasonable idea, but Assange applied to Ecuador for asylum in 2012. Edward Snowden was hired by an NSA contractor in 2013.
Ah. Good point.
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Old 13th June 2017, 06:14 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by Antonio Coceri View Post
Assange was there as he claimed the US wanted to extradite him for the Wikileaks thing

Now this is made clear and this is true. [opinion redacted]
It was always clear and true that Assange was claiming that.
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The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.
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