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Tags Coronavirus , vaccines

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Old 26th March 2020, 12:00 PM   #41
dann
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I suspect it is pretty easy to quickly ramp up fertile egg production. And relatively cheap. There already are in place huge commercial chicken breeding and egg production facilities.

Yes, but they are reserved for Trump's Easter celebration!
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:30 PM   #42
Planigale
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
I think this is unhelpful because the author conflates vaccines, preventative treatment given to well persons who have not been infected, with treatment given to ill people who have been infected. most of the former have little gain and much to lose. Most people will not come to any significant harm from covid. At best the vaccine offers most people two weeks less cough and a week less feeling miserable. It might do them harm. A few probably <1% might have their lives saved. In the latter group treatment for those in hospital and unwell may offer all benefit and save 25%? of their lives. Any effective treatment in this group will be easy to detect on a relatively small study, though harms might require a larger study. Given a high mortality of those admitted to hospital with covid 19 studies should be easy and quick.

However preventative studies will need to be much larger if they are to detect saving lives, because only a few of the people vaccinated will die. equally it is more important to detect harms because most people are well when vaccinated.
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:30 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
The complication is that the people putting pressure on the government to expedite testing are usually the patients at risk themselves.

Again, reaching back to my experience, the strongest lobbyists for Fast Tracking HIV drugs were AIDS patients who were running out of time. For them, the tradeoff seemed worth it.

The analogy with COVID19 is probably closer to research involving a treatment rather than a vaccine. In the above list, antisense, antibody, antiviral protein binders, those sorts of things, they're potential treatments post-infection. Sort of like snake venom antidote.

For patients who are infected and have poor prospects, they're being rational if they want to explore something that has credible hope.

This is the thing about science is that especially with medical sciences, a lot of definitions are influenced by culture. Is pregnancy a medical condition? Is chickenpox a disease? Is giving an informed patient a choice of being untreated and probably dying versus participating in a trial for a promising treatment that may save them or kill them faster 'exploitation'? Or is it 'patient autonomy'?

Medical Ethics is a rich field of study, and this is an old discussion that reasonable people hold differing opinions about.
Indeed.
All rather moot (on COVID-19) I guess as it appears that researchers are testing on healthy (mostly) young subjects so as not to endanger anyone.
And I guess - fewer complicating health factors needet to account for in their analyses.
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:38 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I was doing no such thing and made no such admission.
Just my knees jerking then.
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Old 27th March 2020, 10:53 PM   #45
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The new mRNA vaccines look very promising.
Instead of containing viral proteins they contain viral mRNA and rely on your cells to produce the viral proteins. This bypasses the difficult and time consuming process of having to produce pure viral proteins in large quantities.

Coronavirus: A new type of vaccine using RNA could help defeat COVID-19

mRNA-1273 is ready for clinical trials in humans, it encodes for a stable form of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.
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Last edited by Cheetah; 27th March 2020 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 27th March 2020, 10:57 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Human testing has already begun..
45 volunteers between 18 and 55.
Looks like the researchers don’t think boomers are good candidates despite the prejudices shown on this thread.
That's a standard age group for phase 1 trials researching new meds and vaccines.
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Old 28th March 2020, 12:18 AM   #47
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It is reported that SARS-CoV-2 is mutating relatively slowly, which is good news for vaccination efficacy and production.
Our initial data show that this is a very stable RNA virus, with only five novel variants,” Professor Stefano Menzo, head of Virology at Ancona University Hospital, said in a statement. "Had we investigated other viruses we might have expected up to dozens of new mutations after so many infectious cycles in patients."

Menzo also explained how this could impact a potential vaccine. “A virus with a stable genome is good news for vaccine development because it indicates that the effectiveness of vaccines could be more consistent, possibly over many years.”
Informed speculation is that a SARS-CoV-2 may quite possibly be a single vaccine, rather than an new vaccine each year, as is needed for flu.

They do caution, “[that]findings are not “over interpreted,” as sample sizes are still small and we are still early in the outbreak” and also that there is a possible second (older) strain circulating in humans .
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Last edited by EHocking; 28th March 2020 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 28th March 2020, 12:44 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
The new mRNA vaccines look very promising.
Instead of containing viral proteins they contain viral mRNA and rely on your cells to produce the viral proteins. This bypasses the difficult and time consuming process of having to produce pure viral proteins in large quantities.

Coronavirus: A new type of vaccine using RNA could help defeat COVID-19

mRNA-1273 is ready for clinical trials in humans, it encodes for a stable form of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.

And also is not grown in eggs.


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Old 28th March 2020, 01:12 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
It is reported that SARS-CoV-2 is mutating relatively slowly, which is good news for vaccination efficacy and production.
Our initial data show that this is a very stable RNA virus, with only five novel variants,” Professor Stefano Menzo, head of Virology at Ancona University Hospital, said in a statement. "Had we investigated other viruses we might have expected up to dozens of new mutations after so many infectious cycles in patients."

Menzo also explained how this could impact a potential vaccine. “A virus with a stable genome is good news for vaccine development because it indicates that the effectiveness of vaccines could be more consistent, possibly over many years.”
Informed speculation is that a SARS-CoV-2 may quite possibly be a single vaccine, rather than an new vaccine each year, as is needed for flu.

They do caution, “[that]findings are not “over interpreted,” as sample sizes are still small and we are still early in the outbreak” and also that there is a possible second (older) strain circulating in humans .
My understanding is that can cut both ways. Makes it easier to vaccinate. But, that may not be easy, especially with some minor mutations.

As I understand it, Spanish flu hit large. Then it mutated and hit harder, but not as large. Then it mutated again, and went out. So it hit twice. But it was really the last mutation that drove it to essential extinction.

I don't know.
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Old 29th March 2020, 10:50 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
My understanding is that can cut both ways. Makes it easier to vaccinate. But, that may not be easy, especially with some minor mutations.

As I understand it, Spanish flu hit large. Then it mutated and hit harder, but not as large. Then it mutated again, and went out. So it hit twice. But it was really the last mutation that drove it to essential extinction.

I don't know.
Influenza is far more mutagenic than CoronaVirus.
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Old Today, 05:06 AM   #51
Roboramma
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This is similar to what I was talking about this the OP:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...-so-fast-some#
Quote:
Stanley Plotkin of the University of Pennsylvania, inventor of the current rubella vaccine and a leader in the vaccine field, says a carefully designed “human challenge” trial could offer clear proof of a vaccine’s worth at blinding speed. “We’re talking 2, 3 months,” says Plotkin, who has co-authored a commentary, now being submitted for publication, that describes how this might be ethically done. “People who are faced with a terrifying problem like this one will opt for measures that are unusual. And we have to constantly rethink our biases.” A similar proposal for coronavirus challenge studies was published online today in the Journal of Infectious Diseases.
Quote:
Myron Levine, a vaccine researcher at the University of Maryland School of Medicine who has conducted challenge experiments for more than 40 years, doubts traditional clinical trials for COVID-19 vaccine candidates will be as slow as some fear. “I think we’re going to move very, very fast,” he says. Because of the high levels of new infections occurring in many places, conventional trials will reveal a vaccine’s worth on the same timeline as a human challenge. “I cannot imagine that it would be ethical and would really speed up what we have to do.”
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