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#1 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 298
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Is Michael Shermer becoming a believer??
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More info: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...m-to-the-core/ |
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#2 |
Pedantic Bore
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Abandon All Hope
Posts: 6,808
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Quote:
Nothing paranormal there. Speaking as a former Philips employee I can confirm that the old 070 had a design flaw, giving it a tendency to, as the QC people put it, "mess with people". ... OK fine, but the part about me being a former Philips employee is actually true. |
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Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. - Harlan Ellison |
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#3 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 91,605
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I had a radio that came on by itself, discussed it in another thread. Shermer of all people should know that was just a coincidence and an electronic anomaly that was explicable based on some part connecting that then came loose again.
I didn't know he'd gotten a divorce from wife #1. |
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#4 |
Adrift on an uncharted sea
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,410
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I posted this comment at Scientific American:
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#5 |
Adrift on an uncharted sea
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,410
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I agree, and it's might even be less of a coincidence considering my above comment suggesting the possibility that this may not have even been the only time the radio came on.
It's not even like the radio had been sitting there for decades or something. It had only been in the drawer for 3 months. I thought the article was pretty lame. |
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#6 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 298
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I think its also lame. Shermer judgments are clouded by his emotions here.
1. He was on a wedding which was quite emotional for him according to the text. 2. His bride became emotional because she wanted her grandfather to be there. 3.the radio started to play and woala you have a miracle. It does not matter that the radio was playing music and no voices from the underworld of the dead grandfather. It is like fatalism and that is what Shermer is doing here claiming fatalism its the same like when a person is praying and something happens like the wind starts to blow and the person then thinks that god is communicating with him. 4. I would like to know if the radio will start to work again and what would Shermer then claim that grandfather is communicating again?? 5. Many electronic things die and then work again. My PC notebook from my university times died many times for no reason and after a week I turned him on again and it worked etc.. There are many instances something stops to work and then starts to work in electronics and its NOT paranormal. It happens. The whole story reminds me of Uri Geller and his tricks debunked here: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/i_was_a_teenage_psychic Where it is shown that people who are told something to look for they will find paranormal phenomena everywhere even Uri Geller used this trick on the audiences on TVs. He just told that he is concentrating and a psychic phenomena will happen and woala clocks stopped working, books have fallen from the library etc.. However this happens all the time but people are not aware of it because no one told them. Shermer had the same experience, his wife said she is said and would like that her grandfather would be hear and then they heard the radio and woala it must be the grandfather who fixed it. Next time when my refrigerator dies I know that someone is communicating with me beyond the grave.(sarcasm) |
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#7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
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Reads to me like he's saying that he accepts the credible explanation that it's an electrical anomaly, but he's just had it demonstrated to him why such experiences can be so emotionally powerful if you're the person that they're happening to. The first paragraph reads like hyperbole in order to get people to read the rest of the article.
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#8 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 298
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim
Quote:
Also I am starting to doubt that Michael Shermer would be convinced that there is paranormal thanks to a broken radio that started to play because its quite stupid and it smells like fatalism.. |
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#9 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,568
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What about the final paragraph, particularly the final sentence?
Quote:
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Well, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU LIKE TO BELIEVE, GODDAMMIT! I DEAL IN THE FACTS! -Cecil Adams |
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#10 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 298
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Here is what Michael Shermer is claiming about it and clarifying it:
Quote:
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#11 |
Adrift on an uncharted sea
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,410
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Originally Posted by Michael Shermer
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#12 |
a carbon based life-form
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
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#13 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 298
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly
Maybe that is what Shermer is trying to say.. That he liked the mystery of what happened but does not believe that it was paranormal. However I can be wrong here. |
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#14 |
Inquisitor
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,483
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His future life with his wife may now be more problematic as she seems to be fully convinced that her dead grandfather communicated to her via an old radio. Her husband went along with this at the time (I can understand why) so she'll feel a bit betrayed if he later tries to give it a more mundane explanation.
This is going to come back and bite him in the rear. |
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"You're entitled to your opinion; you're just not entitled to have it taken seriously when you can offer no evidence to support it." - Garrison "I am the danger." - Heisenberg |
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#15 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,812
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I fancy myself a skeptic, but my world view was seriously shaken when I saw a UFO (which I have posted about many times). I do remember my jaw literally hung open as I tried to come to grips with what I had thought I saw. I don't know what I would believe now if that flock of geese hadn't circled around and started honking. So I can understand anyone's moment of doubt and how someone could become a believer in woo.
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"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
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#16 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,679
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This goes back to what I've often thought. Believers claim that if skeptics only experienced the powerful things they had, skeptics would believe too. But these things are not rare. Most everybody experiences them, but their significance is due to how people interpret them. Skeptics simply don't interpret them like believers, but they're still fun to enjoy in a mild, that's cool sort of way, but not in a life-changing OMG the woo is real sort of way.
Not sure how Shermer is going with this one. |
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#17 |
Ardent Formulist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 15,334
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I gave up believing in synchronicity a long time ago, but I still think meaningful coincidence can be really cool.
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To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens. |
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#18 |
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 10,279
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Last I heard about Shermer, he was dead!
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#19 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
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#20 |
a carbon based life-form
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
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#21 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 91,605
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Originally Posted by MS
Though I have to admit I thought she'd be a younger model. ![]() ![]() |
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#22 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 298
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Even some believers are not swallowing it:
Quote:
Also Bernardo Kastrup is writing about it: http://www.bernardokastrup.com/2014/...kepticism.html And Michael Prescott: http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/m...played-on.html The only question will remain what will happen with the Skeptic Magazine? Will it become a woo magazine now? Or will Shermer explain what he is talking about? |
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#23 |
Half True Scotsperson
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,666
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What a stupid thing to think is mysterious. I guess we have a mysterious truck, then, because we have one that you can't keep the radio off in, no matter how much you want to. The volume gradually increases, too. You turn it off via dial, and it turns itself back on in a few seconds. I know nothing about radios, but I suspect there's a spring or similar device in the dial which, when gunked-up or broken, will push the dial back into 'on' position.
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#24 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 91,605
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I'm not too impressed by those comments. Unless I misread them (always possible) they seem to lean toward: the supernatural exists and those bad ol' skeptics are finally getting it.
No skeptics I know doubt that weird things happen. What we doubt is that the explanation involves things for which there is no reason (evidence) to add said supernatural explanation to the hypothesis list. |
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#25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,607
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Wow a Sceptic admits weird stuff happens and sometimes it is more fun to just say "that was odd" than to try and find an explanation?
Good for him. Shame woomeisters are already trying to make that mean all sceptics are wrong. |
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#26 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 446
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We must not give them the satisfaction of appearing to reject Shermer's statement a priori. Let's humour him and come across as open-minded. We can say: "Hey well! Fancy that. Mike, that is amazing and we're right behind you in trying to explain it." I don't think Shermer would say something like this lightly; he must understand the implications of what he's said. We can't just act like he's Uri Geller all of a sudden.
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"Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh." The Doctor |
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#27 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 298
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Shermer is not a believer here is his response:
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#28 |
Scholar
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 73
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#29 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,264
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This reminds me of when I was a kid. Every once in a while, I would "hear voices." I couldn't figure out what they were saying, but they seemed definitely to be voices. I considered the possibility that I was going mad, but I eventually realized that however mad I was, I wouldn't be that kind of mad.
Decades later, I found out where they came from. There was a stadium with loudspeakers some distance away. On particular nights with cold, dry air (of which there were few in Florida), it could barely be heard. |
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"It probably came from a sticky dark planet far, far away." - Godzilla versus Hedora "There's no evidence that the 9-11 attacks (whoever did them) were deliberately attacking civilians. On the contrary the targets appear to have been chosen as military." -DavidByron |
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#30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 14,166
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I am also amazed that, of all the issues that could have seemed paranormal, that something so benign and explainable, this is what jumped out at him.
I had a friend that insisted that her dead mother-in-laws stereo turned itself on when it wasn't even plugged in. When I tried to explain options that were not paranormal, I got the eye roll and the look like 'oh, she's one of those'. |
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Julia |
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#31 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,057
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Why would anyone listen to Shermer on anything, ever?
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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#32 |
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 31,186
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Any good skeptic has an answer to the question, "Isn't there anything you've seen that seemed paranormal?"
I have one -- I was riding my minibike up and down the strip of land behind our house with friends, max speed about 35 miles per hour. On one trip returning to the starting point, I decided for no apparent reason to try to drive as slow as possible without falling over (and well away and around the corner, so I wasn't approaching.) So I slowed way way down and was putt putting along and whoomp! The minibike fell in half, the bolt holding the front fork coming out. Would I have been killed had that happened at 35 mph on a strip of grass? Maybe. Badly injured with broken neck? Maybe. Scraped up a bit? Maybe. Slid with little more than a scratch? Maybe. Did I detect something wrong subconsciously so slowed down? Maybe. Incredible coincidence? Probably. I could say the honest skeptic thing, "I don't know." Which is true. But I do know it's not something mystical. |
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"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? |
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#33 |
Scholar
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 87
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I eagerly await Shermer's next book, You Guys, I Saw a GHOST!!!
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#34 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,190
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He's lost it.
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#35 |
Adrift on an uncharted sea
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,410
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#36 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,485
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The shower in my en-suite does the same thing. With the shower running, while standing under or near it, I can hear what sounds like distant/faint music. It doesn't sound like rushing water at all - it sounds just like a neighbour down the road is having a party and the strains of music make it into the bathroom. The effect is so real, that even though I've identified the shower as the culprit several times (since turning the shower off stops the "music") I still occasionally turn the shower off half way through, just to check.
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#37 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,679
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That sounds a lot like musical ear syndrome. I have it too and have had it all my life, with no hearing loss, so as a data point of one, I'd say that one doesn't necessarily need hearing loss to have it.
More similar to the situation epepke described, we were looking to buy vacant land in the country next door to where an old one-room schoolhouse had been at the turn of the century, long since torn down and left to be more vacant land. When we visited the land, at certain times of day one could hear faint voices of children reciting things, the pledge of allegiance, and other less recognizable things but obviously group recitation like in an old schoolroom. Spooky, until we realized the loudspeaker from an elementary school three miles away was audible from hilltop to hilltop. I don't know if they broadcast special programs on outside speakers too, or just from inside with the windows open, but it was definitely faint but clear enough to hear. |
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#38 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,346
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#39 |
Adrift on an uncharted sea
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,410
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#40 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,679
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No in both cases. On the musical ear thing, thought it was real sounds from a distance until I learned about it.
As far as the kids reciting, I thought it sounded like what stereotypical ghosts ought to sound like, but figured there had to be some real explanation. When we could hear a football announcer and a band (there was also a middle school about the same distance and direction that had games and a band) we realized the elementary school explanation. |
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