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Tags humanism , politics , reason , science , skepticism

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Old 13th June 2022, 09:03 PM   #1
skepticsalamander
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Science & Reason Can Make The World A Better Place

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29k4rHMdp8

Please discuss!
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Old 13th June 2022, 10:10 PM   #2
The Great Zaganza
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if you want to discuss something, please post your ideas here.

Don't do a shameless link to your own video in order to drive up views.
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Old 13th June 2022, 11:00 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
if you want to discuss something, please post your ideas here.

Don't do a shameless link to your own video in order to drive up views.
Hear, hear!
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Old 13th June 2022, 11:56 PM   #4
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I watched the video. It's only 57 seconds long.

I guess I agree with most of what you said.

But of course, it's never easy to get people to embrace science and reason over superstition and bigotry. And when you bring religion and politics into it from the very beginning, you immediately alienate a lot of people. You'll end up just preaching to people who already agree with you.
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Old 14th June 2022, 05:58 AM   #5
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I remember first finding out about the internet. (or world wide web - I don't make a distinction and don't even know what it is.) I thought, wow, now people all over the world are going to be able to communicate almost instantly. It's going be like the ansible in Ender's Game, opening up a whole new world where people will be able to see other points of view and perspectives, and eventually it will boil down to a massive truth that will be obvious to everyone. I mean, who would use it to spread anything but facts?

Boy, was I wrong.
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Old 14th June 2022, 06:09 AM   #6
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I watched the video. It's only 57 seconds long.

I guess I agree with most of what you said.

But of course, it's never easy to get people to embrace science and reason over superstition and bigotry. And when you bring religion and politics into it from the very beginning, you immediately alienate a lot of people. You'll end up just preaching to people who already agree with you.
I'm not sure that science and bigotry are mutually exclusive. See trans issues for only one example. People who reference the science are considered by many to be bigots.
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Old 14th June 2022, 06:24 AM   #7
The Great Zaganza
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instead of invoking Science & Reason, I would go with something both simpler and more fundamental:

the principle of incremental improvement


a lot of the problem I see with the rejection of reason comes from the belief that there is the actual possibility of an Utopia, either as a state of the past (Eden), the future (political communism) or in an afterlife; anyone who says he can get you there is an enemy of Reason.
We will never reach a Perfect Solution for any problem, because by the time we solved the problem we realize that it was only part of a bigger one, or we learn that there are other ways to improve our situation.

Never seek or ask for Perfection, just look what greatest good you can do the with the least effort (Pareto style), so that you can quickly reiterate the process and find the next thing in reach you can improve on.
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Old 14th June 2022, 09:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
instead of invoking Science & Reason, I would go with something both simpler and more fundamental:

the principle of incremental improvement


a lot of the problem I see with the rejection of reason comes from the belief that there is the actual possibility of an Utopia, either as a state of the past (Eden), the future (political communism) or in an afterlife; anyone who says he can get you there is an enemy of Reason.
We will never reach a Perfect Solution for any problem, because by the time we solved the problem we realize that it was only part of a bigger one, or we learn that there are other ways to improve our situation.

Never seek or ask for Perfection, just look what greatest good you can do the with the least effort (Pareto style), so that you can quickly reiterate the process and find the next thing in reach you can improve on.
you might even reduce it to the highlighted.
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Old 14th June 2022, 10:12 PM   #9
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Science and reason have already made the world a better place.
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Old 15th June 2022, 12:08 AM   #10
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There was some confusion on this point?
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Old 15th June 2022, 01:51 PM   #11
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I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world?
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Old 15th June 2022, 08:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I remember first finding out about the internet. (or world wide web - I don't make a distinction and don't even know what it is.) I thought, wow, now people all over the world are going to be able to communicate almost instantly. It's going be like the ansible in Ender's Game, opening up a whole new world where people will be able to see other points of view and perspectives, and eventually it will boil down to a massive truth that will be obvious to everyone. I mean, who would use it to spread anything but facts?

Boy, was I wrong.
But at least you were spectacularly wrong.
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Old 19th June 2022, 05:45 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
you might even reduce it to the highlighted.
Gord checks his sig. Hmm. Someone may have already done that.
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Old 20th June 2022, 03:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Science and reason have already made the world a better place.
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world?

Seems to be a disagreement here.

I'm with Pixel here. Science sure has made the world a more comfortable place for us homo sapiens, but we must be cautious of the risks of some scientific advances - atom bombs and such.
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Old 22nd June 2022, 05:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world?
Valid question. Someone above mentioned that it has made life easier for humans, but we are not the world (nor the children). Or not necessarily.

Is the planet and everything on it better or worse for our science?

I think the cows, pigs and chickens would disagree that science, or human beings for that matter, have been a bonus for them. I think The World would be better off without us.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 12:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Seems to be a disagreement here.

I'm with Pixel here. Science sure has made the world a more comfortable place for us homo sapiens, but we must be cautious of the risks of some scientific advances - atom bombs and such.
I agree science has helped make the world a better place. It is just that the video does not do a good job of explaining that.

There are many other factors that have helped make the world a better place. One of the critical ones is giving women more power and the right to have a well-paid job that does not discriminate against them. Plus infant mortality has gone down (though this has been a benefit of science). So parents now have fewer children and give them more resources (time, money, rights). The last major war (where most people were involved either as soldiers or producing war materials) ended in 1945. This means that governments can invest in other things such as the space race.

Edited by sarge:  edited to remove moderated content
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Last edited by sarge; 23rd June 2022 at 04:15 AM.
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