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Old 22nd May 2019, 10:26 AM   #2641
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Why are we continuing to entertain this troll?
Low hanging fruit.

To recap this thread:

OP features bad math and makes an inaccurate statement based on this bad math.

When confronted with facts, the author disputes those facts with counter claims that amount to something like "Nah ah". Along the way the he demonstrates ignorance of basic physics, chemistry, history, and how NASA does, and does not work.

A clear example is the claims of CGI in the many videos linked on this thread. Rockets have been around since the year 1232, the first liquid fueled rocket was launched in 1926, and from there we had the V-2, and the evolution of rocketry through the post-war era. 2D CGI has been around since 1972, and has only become seamless in the last 15 years or so.

There are a lot of smart, educated people posting on this thread who would rather build a rocket than render images on a computer because building a rocket is easier, and much more productive even if it's just an Estes model rocket.

Bottom Line:

Rockets work in the vacuum of space. This is not theoretical science, this is fact. Not believing this fact indicates an intellectual character flaw.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 10:51 AM   #2642
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
How?
Just about everything you have been posting is a lie.

Therefore, you are a liar.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 11:19 AM   #2643
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Nope, doesn’t answer the question. Here it is again:

Imagine a single gas molecule travelling through vacuum. How much force does the vacuum exert on the molecule?

Hint: you don’t actually need to do any maths to answer it.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 11:49 AM   #2644
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Just about everything you have been posting is a lie.

Therefore, you are a liar.
Even his video. The buoyancy experiment has some additional ballast in the form of a 9 V battery. When he realizes that it is in the shot he turns it away from the camera so the ballast is obscured by the ruler/paint stick thingy.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 12:00 PM   #2645
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Even his video. The buoyancy experiment has some additional ballast in the form of a 9 V battery. When he realizes that it is in the shot he turns it away from the camera so the ballast is obscured by the ruler/paint stick thingy.
Which makes it all the more amusing when he declares that he won't accept video evidence from anyone else, on the abstract grounds that it could be gimmicked or faked. Remember how he bristled when I suggested the scales could have been doctored to read anything he wished. Now that's certainly possible, and it would take me very little time to rig up something like that as a theater/film prop. But the point I was trying to make was that he applied a double standard to his video evidence versus other video evidence. Maybe I should have poked harder, now that his deception is revealed.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 02:22 PM   #2646
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
An inability to understand what a single gas molecule is !
The question was Imagine a single gas molecule travelling through vacuum. How much force does the vacuum exert on the molecule from Mojo.

Pressure Gradient Force Calculator is the pressure of a gas. A gas is a really high number of molecules!

The link talks about air and kilometers so it is probably weather related, e.g. the flow of air between high and low pressure areas. I think we call this wind .

This link emphasizes the "pressure gradient force" part of the rockets do not work in space (because they do not have anything to push against) delusion as stated here and in a video. A pressure gradient force exists within a gas. It moves the gas from "areas of high pressure (H) to areas of low pressure (L)". What this says is that the high pressure caused by burning propellant in a rocket engine + the low pressure at the rocket nozzle forces the gas out of the engine chamber. This is blinding obvious to anyone who has seen a skyrocket or rocket launch!

For a rocket in space, the equation in the link gives a pressure gradient force inside the propellant gas proportional to the pressure in the rocket chamber.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 02:29 PM   #2648
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Question Do you understand that the OP image has obvious ignorance or lies

22 May 2019 Gingervytes: Do you understand [yet] that the OP image has obvious ignorance or lies?
This is high science level science of looking at the dimensions of the equation in the OP (dimensional analysis) that author of that video is ignorant about or lies about.
You may have ignored the science when you wrote the OP and included that massively ignorant or blatantly lying image sourced from the video. Do you understand how ignorant or lying the author of that video is now?

Last edited by Reality Check; 22nd May 2019 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 02:43 PM   #2649
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Question Gingervytes: What makes the demonstrations in that YouTube video not faked

Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Even his video. The buoyancy experiment has some additional ballast in the form of a 9 V battery. When he realizes that it is in the shot he turns it away from the camera so the ballast is obscured by the ruler/paint stick thingy.
Which brings up a question for Gingervytes: What makes the demonstrations in that YouTube video not faked?

There will be no answer but it is obvious. Gingervytes became a believer in an impossible conspiracy. Anything Gingervytes finds supporting that conspiracy is not faked even if it is full of ignorance, lies or possible fraud (hiding that 9 V battery). Anything that debunks that conspiracy is be faked or lies, e.g. the Apollo images and videos, images and videos of rockets working in space, the terabytes? of data from spacecraft, astronauts have to be liars, telemetry from spacecraft showing them changing course in space, GPS and Internet infrastructure (satellites!), etc. etc.

Hiding the extra ballast is close to fraud. An honest person would have stated that extra ballast was added, e.g. to ease dunking of the container.

Last edited by Reality Check; 22nd May 2019 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 02:45 PM   #2650
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Let's assume the OP is running over to Above Top Secret, reading the conspiratorial scientifically sound responses over there, and then running back here to post the same arguments.

It's the only explanation I can think of for this ongoing comedic theatrical production.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 05:51 PM   #2651
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Nope, doesn’t answer the question. Here it is again:

Imagine a single gas molecule travelling through vacuum. How much force does the vacuum exert on the molecule?

Hint: you don’t actually need to do any maths to answer it.
More than anything this demonstrates that he doesn't really believe that rockets don't work in a vacuum. He consistently knows what questions to steer clear of. If he really believed then he wouldn't understand enough to know that.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 07:50 PM   #2652
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
More than anything this demonstrates that he doesn't really believe that rockets don't work in a vacuum. He consistently knows what questions to steer clear of. If he really believed then he wouldn't understand enough to know that.
Of course he doesn't. Not believing rockets work in space is an extension of this flat Earth beliefs and no one really holds those. Some people just want to be the train wreck the rest of us can't look away from.

Watch the Netflix documentary on Flat Earthers. The mayor of Flat Earth Town or head of their movement lives, and I'm not making this up, in his mom's basement. Flat Earthers and their, "rockets don't work" fellow travelers aren't real. They don't actually exist. They spout off because being irrelevant and living in mom's basement is to harsh a reality to conceive of. They create their manufactured smugness as a balm for the failure of their lives. Fear not, no one in this thread, not even the OP actually thinks rockets don't work in space.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 08:07 PM   #2653
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Of course he doesn't. Not believing rockets work in space is an extension of this flat Earth beliefs and no one really holds those. Some people just want to be the train wreck the rest of us can't look away from.

Watch the Netflix documentary on Flat Earthers. The mayor of Flat Earth Town or head of their movement lives, and I'm not making this up, in his mom's basement. Flat Earthers and their, "rockets don't work" fellow travelers aren't real. They don't actually exist. They spout off because being irrelevant and living in mom's basement is to harsh a reality to conceive of. They create their manufactured smugness as a balm for the failure of their lives. Fear not, no one in this thread, not even the OP actually thinks rockets don't work in space.
Mostly true, however there exists a small subset of genuine believers. Shocking, I know, that anyone could be that idiotic, but there it is. Which camp our protagonist falls into is up for guesses, but given the posting pattern I would suggest he is not one of the rare believers in an idiotic idea. His posting frequency hockey-sticked downward the moment he glommed onto the fact that nobody was buying the notion, and we had sufficient expertise available to sink it as a viable idea.
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Old Yesterday, 12:31 AM   #2654
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Which brings up a question for Gingervytes: What makes the demonstrations in that YouTube video not faked?

There will be no answer but it is obvious. Gingervytes became a believer in an impossible conspiracy. Anything Gingervytes finds supporting that conspiracy is not faked even if it is full of ignorance, lies or possible fraud (hiding that 9 V battery). Anything that debunks that conspiracy is be faked or lies, e.g. the Apollo images and videos, images and videos of rockets working in space, the terabytes? of data from spacecraft, astronauts have to be liars, telemetry from spacecraft showing them changing course in space, GPS and Internet infrastructure (satellites!), etc. etc.

Hiding the extra ballast is close to fraud. An honest person would have stated that extra ballast was added, e.g. to ease dunking of the container.
How does the Flat Earther explain satellite TV? How do they explain that as you go further and further south (or further and further North in the Southern Hemisphere) that the elevation angle of people's satellite dish increases?

This is the really stupid thing about the Flat Earth conspiracy. This is not like JFK Conspiracy, or 9/11 Conspiracy, or Apollo Hoax Conspiracy, where what happened is in the past, and you need to have some faith in experts and the records and the investigations into what happened. Flat Earth conspiracy is NOW, you can debunk it yourself with your own observations.

Anyone who lives in a port city can watch a departing ship disappear over the horizon as it sails away; watch the water level appear to rise up as it does so until you can only see the superstructure, and eventually, even that disappears.

Anyone who has travelled to the other hemisphere (and I guess if you've lived all your life in your Mummy's basement, that might be unlikely) cannot help but notice that the sun travels "the other way" across the sky, and passes over the other pole.
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Old Yesterday, 02:48 AM   #2655
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
How does the Flat Earther explain satellite TV? How do they explain that as you go further and further south (or further and further North in the Southern Hemisphere) that the elevation angle of people's satellite dish increases?

This is the really stupid thing about the Flat Earth conspiracy. This is not like JFK Conspiracy, or 9/11 Conspiracy, or Apollo Hoax Conspiracy, where what happened is in the past, and you need to have some faith in experts and the records and the investigations into what happened. Flat Earth conspiracy is NOW, you can debunk it yourself with your own observations.

Anyone who lives in a port city can watch a departing ship disappear over the horizon as it sails away; watch the water level appear to rise up as it does so until you can only see the superstructure, and eventually, even that disappears.

Anyone who has travelled to the other hemisphere (and I guess if you've lived all your life in your Mummy's basement, that might be unlikely) cannot help but notice that the sun travels "the other way" across the sky, and passes over the other pole.
That's just perspective...
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Old Yesterday, 07:15 AM   #2656
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Why are we continuing to entertain this troll?
As long as he is busy and entertained with this kind of digital vandalism,
he doesn't commit any crimes IRL...
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Old Yesterday, 11:05 AM   #2657
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
How does the Flat Earther explain satellite TV? How do they explain that as you go further and further south (or further and further North in the Southern Hemisphere) that the elevation angle of people's satellite dish increases?

This is the really stupid thing about the Flat Earth conspiracy. This is not like JFK Conspiracy, or 9/11 Conspiracy, or Apollo Hoax Conspiracy, where what happened is in the past, and you need to have some faith in experts and the records and the investigations into what happened. Flat Earth conspiracy is NOW, you can debunk it yourself with your own observations.

Anyone who lives in a port city can watch a departing ship disappear over the horizon as it sails away; watch the water level appear to rise up as it does so until you can only see the superstructure, and eventually, even that disappears.

Anyone who has travelled to the other hemisphere (and I guess if you've lived all your life in your Mummy's basement, that might be unlikely) cannot help but notice that the sun travels "the other way" across the sky, and passes over the other pole.
One of the more prominent flat earth channels had members involved in the purchase of a fiber optic gyroscope and they measured 15°/hr rotation with it. Their conclusion, it is the rotation of heavenly energies or the aether that it was measuring.
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 PM   #2658
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I've just watched live video of a rocket propelling in a vacuum. Either that or the PTB's are going to a LOT of effort and have many thousands of people enlisted in their deception.

Oh, BTW, GV: Have you figured out yet how pressure increases at the bottom of a ship?
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Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM   #2659
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
.......................................

Oh, BTW, GV: Have you figured out yet how pressure increases at the bottom of a ship?
Yep. That's the way. Just keep pushing him to try .
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Old Yesterday, 08:31 PM   #2660
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I should go see if his thread at CQ has been reopened again.
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Old Yesterday, 08:56 PM   #2661
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I've just watched live video of a rocket propelling in a vacuum. Either that or the PTB's are going to a LOT of effort and have many thousands of people enlisted in their deception.

Oh, BTW, GV: Have you figured out yet how pressure increases at the bottom of a ship?
Just watched the deployment. A big blob of 60 satellites just slowly drifting apart...

Notably, SpaceX has done several launches in lighting conditions that put the stage separation in sunlight after the sun had set at the launch site. These give great views of the changing plume shapes as the rocket moves into thin atmosphere, the stages separate and their exhausts interact (so far something unique to SpaceX launches), and the second stage accelerates past its own exhaust velocity into vacuum, causing the airspeed of the exhaust to drop to near zero briefly just as the plume starts to expand into an enormous space jellyfish...all in plain view of anyone looking up. So where do those jellyfish come from, super-secret holographic projectors?
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Old Yesterday, 08:59 PM   #2662
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
One of the more prominent flat earth channels had members involved in the purchase of a fiber optic gyroscope and they measured 15°/hr rotation with it. Their conclusion, it is the rotation of heavenly energies or the aether that it was measuring.
There was also the Flat Earth Rocket Man last year who seems have been surprisingly silent about his results. It is almost as if during his flight to 1,875 feet he recorded new features appear over the horizon and maybe recorded a curved horizon .

More recent weirdness from Mad Mike. A plan to go to the Antarctic to find the edge of the world as if he were abysmally ignorant about Antarctic expeditions and the people living there. Or maybe paranoid about no one reporting they fell over the edge. Another rocket, this time to the edge of space. He may be ignorant of the large cost of building such a rocket. Some craziness: a April 05, 2019 article where he plans a May 9 launch (presumably 2019)!

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 09:09 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:55 PM   #2663
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I've just watched live video of a rocket propelling in a vacuum. Either that or the PTB's are going to a LOT of effort and have many thousands of people enlisted in their deception.

Oh, BTW, GV: Have you figured out yet how pressure increases at the bottom of a ship?
He doesn't need to figure it out. He can just deny it. Unless he has gone under water and tested the pressure on the hull of a ship, he cannot know, because the physics of such things are all wrong, all those who claim to observe reality are liars, their instruments, images and measurements fraudulent, their dreadful secrets guarded by an all powerful conspiracy which has already been shown to reach to the midst of the ocean, the poles, and the remotest deserts and jungles, with technology so marvelous, complex, expensive and sophisticated that ordinary people might be forgiven for believing it cannot exist. Given his account so far of things that are common knowledge, this is the only possibility, since to believe otherwise would be crazily inconsistent.
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Old Yesterday, 10:18 PM   #2664
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
He doesn't need to figure it out. He can just deny it. Unless he has gone under water and tested the pressure on the hull of a ship.............................................. .
Well, that is exactly what I am hoping he will do - a good chance he will never come back.
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Old Yesterday, 11:42 PM   #2665
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Or........

He is just a troll.

Occam says that is how it should be cut.
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Old Today, 12:43 AM   #2666
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
There was also the Flat Earth Rocket Man last year who seems have been surprisingly silent about his results. It is almost as if during his flight to 1,875 feet he recorded new features appear over the horizon and maybe recorded a curved horizon .

More recent weirdness from Mad Mike. A plan to go to the Antarctic to find the edge of the world as if he were abysmally ignorant about Antarctic expeditions and the people living there. Or maybe paranoid about no one reporting they fell over the edge. Another rocket, this time to the edge of space. He may be ignorant of the large cost of building such a rocket. Some craziness: a April 05, 2019 article where he plans a May 9 launch (presumably 2019)!
Just taking a flight from city on the West Coast of North America to Amsterdam or Frankfurt would sort it all out nicely and be cheaper than building a rocket.
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Old Today, 02:51 AM   #2667
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Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
Just watched the deployment. A big blob of 60 satellites just slowly drifting apart...

Notably, SpaceX has done several launches in lighting conditions that put the stage separation in sunlight after the sun had set at the launch site. These give great views of the changing plume shapes as the rocket moves into thin atmosphere, the stages separate and their exhausts interact (so far something unique to SpaceX launches), and the second stage accelerates past its own exhaust velocity into vacuum, causing the airspeed of the exhaust to drop to near zero briefly just as the plume starts to expand into an enormous space jellyfish...all in plain view of anyone looking up. So where do those jellyfish come from, super-secret holographic projectors?

Did you notice how "toasty" the grid fins got before the groundlink cutout? That must have been quite a high energy re-entry.
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Old Today, 04:02 AM   #2668
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
There was also the Flat Earth Rocket Man last year who seems have been surprisingly silent about his results. It is almost as if during his flight to 1,875 feet he recorded new features appear over the horizon and maybe recorded a curved horizon .

More recent weirdness from Mad Mike. A plan to go to the Antarctic to find the edge of the world as if he were abysmally ignorant about Antarctic expeditions and the people living there. Or maybe paranoid about no one reporting they fell over the edge. Another rocket, this time to the edge of space. He may be ignorant of the large cost of building such a rocket. Some craziness: a April 05, 2019 article where he plans a May 9 launch (presumably 2019)!
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Just taking a flight from city on the West Coast of North America to Amsterdam or Frankfurt would sort it all out nicely and be cheaper than building a rocket.
No, because all the windows in airplanes are specially ground to create the illusion of a round earth.

I would like to see him ask Sir Ran Fiennes (who crossed Antarctica) about his supply needs. But then he would just count the man off as Another One Of The Eeebil Conspirators.

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Old Today, 05:03 AM   #2669
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The throat chokes the flow, which then allows for chamber pressure even when there's a pure vacuum outside the divergent end.
Thanks, that put the final piece of the puzzle in place for me. It was already easy to see how the converging-diverging shape would exchange the random component of the molecules' velocity for the linear component directed outwards (or in thermodynamic terms, exchange the gas pressure for flow velocity) but I wasn't yet sure why the subsonic/supersonic thing was so important. But yes, it means pressure differences can't travel backwards through a (super)sonic flow and you can hence up the pressure in the thrust chamber without being bothered by the vacuum outside.
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"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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