ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING!

Reply
Old Today, 03:07 AM   #1281
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Errancy; The earth XE "earth" will last for ever (Ecclesiastes 1:4) Vs The earth will be destroyed (2 Peter 3:10)



Excuse; Mistranslation.



Rebuttal: (See Reply letter in Rebuttal Chart)



Correction: The life of this world is short if we all but knew how short;



“On the day when the earth XE "earth" will be changed to other than the earth, and the heavens (also will be changed) and they (humans) will come forth unto Allah, the One, the Almighty” (Quran 14:48)"


https://quranbible.org/english.htm#_Toc96948618

And;

God/Allah saying, except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with Big Crunch:

Quran 21:104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.

Quran 39:67 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up.

And;

heaven is not paradise. Heaven =universe

Heavens = universes

The Qur'an offers a multi-universe model.

But it is not infinite.

Seven universes, for example.

Other universes have planets too.

Quran 65.12 Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah's] command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything.

Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:43 AM   #1282
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,571
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And;



God/Allah saying, except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with Big Crunch:



Quran 21:104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.



Quran 39:67 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up.



And;



heaven is not paradise. Heaven =universe



Heavens = universes



The Qur'an offers a multi-universe model.



But it is not infinite.



Seven universes, for example.



Other universes have planets too.



Quran 65.12 Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah's] command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything.



Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe


Everyone knows there are nine realms, not seven universes.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:50 AM   #1283
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,571
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And;



God/Allah saying, except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with Big Crunch:



Quran 21:104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.



Quran 39:67 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up.



And;



heaven is not paradise. Heaven =universe



Heavens = universes



The Qur'an offers a multi-universe model.



But it is not infinite.



Seven universes, for example.



Other universes have planets too.



Quran 65.12 Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah's] command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything.



Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe


So your mythology has you spending eternity lounging around on the great space wizard’s floor like a lazy dog...

Well, that explains why so many of your posts resemble barking.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 05:16 AM   #1284
Garrison
Illuminator
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,693
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Everyone knows there are nine realms, not seven universes.
And the MCU has much better writers than the Quran.
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/
And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 05:27 AM   #1285
Hungry81
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,124
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Again:



Everyone is free to believe what they wish, according to Quran. This is the goal of the test world. To confront yourself.



Quran only allows a war of defense.



If you read the full of the verses, you will always see the struggle with the attackers in the defense battle.



Example;



2:190 Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.



2:191 Fight them wherever you meet them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. Do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then fight them. Thus is the reward of those who do not appreciate.



2:192 If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.



2:193 Fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is God's. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked.



***********



Here again, He says, fight with the attackers.



But if you pull out a single verse. You make it look like saying the opposite.



And look at:



49:9 And if two parties of believers battle with each other, you shall reconcile them; but if one of them aggresses against the other, then you shall fight the one aggressing until it complies with the command of God. Once it complies, then you shall reconcile the two groups with justice, and be equitable; for God loves those who are equitable.



As you can see saying, if the attackers are Muslims, stop them too.
If a religion did really have the support of an all powerful omnipresent omnipotent god then fighting wouldn't be necessary. The fact that fights erupt over who has the support of the "real" god tells you there likely is no real god.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:03 AM   #1286
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,527
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
And none of that has anything to do with the question you were asked.
Actually, I think he did answer it. He claims the "no true Scotsman" defence. Muslims stopped following the Quran after the death of the prophet, so the Quran is all peaceful, but the Muslims were not really Muslims, because they were aggressive and did not follow the Quran!
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:10 AM   #1287
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,571
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And the MCU has much better writers than the Quran.
The MCU?

Heretic!

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Thor_(New_Earth)
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:50 AM   #1288
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,045
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Excuse; Mistranslation.
Because it is. Which is to say there are many words that translate to "earth" from ancient writings. And because their cosmology is not modern astronomy, those original words mean a host of different things. And that's not even counting the idioms. Remember the part where you don't understand idioms?

Anyway, it's pretty rich of you (that's an idiom) to write off mistranslation as a mere "excuse" when the link you posted regarding jihad made exactly the same kind of argument you're trying to dismiss. So are poor translations legitimate escapes from a reputation of your religion as bloodthirsty and intolerant? Or are they merely "excuses?"

Quote:
Correction: The life of this world is short if we all but knew how short;
No, you just cherry-picked passages from each source that seemed to be in conflict. In any case, this is not a "correction," as both the Bible and the Qu'ran here are just speculating mystically. There's no given right or wrong answer, unless one starts from the premise that the Qur'an is infallible. Which we don't.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:55 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.