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20th April 2019, 01:13 PM | #521 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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20th April 2019, 01:40 PM | #522 |
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20th April 2019, 02:33 PM | #523 |
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20th April 2019, 02:33 PM | #524 |
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You would have to look at the illustration in the video to know what it was supposed to mean: Two chambers/containers (whatever), one with gas, the other one with a vacuum, connected by a tube. The free expansion would be the gas expanding into the vacuum through the tube.
Quote:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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20th April 2019, 02:38 PM | #525 |
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20th April 2019, 02:49 PM | #526 |
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20th April 2019, 02:59 PM | #527 |
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‣“Facts are stubborn things.” —John Adams ‣IANAL, but I do have a white wig. |
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20th April 2019, 03:00 PM | #528 |
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Of course, it's a lose lose situation. The most obvious people to convince Gingervytes and his ilk of the truth would be rocket scientists and physicists, and here, on this very thread are
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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20th April 2019, 03:34 PM | #529 |
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20th April 2019, 03:50 PM | #530 |
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20th April 2019, 04:18 PM | #531 |
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Absolutely. Very unfair. The sane part of this forum can present (I am afraid, it had already) only a limited number of argument and formulas and can't go any further without moving to quantum physics. If the other side doesn't accept them, it can fight back with and infinite load of crap so stupid, it is virtually impossible to argue with - just look at some of the sarcastic posts that, if by different posters, could be considered serious by some. Dead end...
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20th April 2019, 05:12 PM | #532 |
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20th April 2019, 05:13 PM | #533 |
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Reminds me of that never ending threat about how a plane cannot fly anywhere on a global sphere as it has to face a 1,000 MPH wind or something....that one was just dripping with mental denial too.
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20th April 2019, 05:15 PM | #534 |
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20th April 2019, 06:49 PM | #535 |
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History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell |
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20th April 2019, 07:32 PM | #536 |
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This is a mistake made again and again and again by skeptics, thinking that the greatest experts in the field are the ones most qualified to convince people about something having to do with their profession. It's not true. If knowledge of physics were all that was necessary to convince the non-believers, this particular subject could be tackled by anyone who scored a 4 or better on their physics AP exam, or who had equivalent education.
The problem isn't lack of physics knowledge on the part of people trying to explain the problem. The problem is lack of understanding of psychology. To convince someone of something that you see as an obvious truth, you have to get to the underlying reason why those people can't see that obvious truth. Unfortunately, that's a very difficult task, because each believer in whatever brand of flim flam is being peddled may have different psychological reasons for not believing the scientific explanation for whatever phenomenon is being discussed. As far as convincing Gingervites, specifically, about how rockets work and that they really have been used in space, I have no answers. It's different for each person, and that assumes that Gingervites isn't just yanking our chains and having some laughs at our reactions. The latest issue of Skeptical Inquirer has a good article about "Respectful Skepticism". It touches on barriers to acceptance of scientific beliefs, and on better ways to turn people away from wooish beliefs. I will not pretend to be good at persuading any of our various unorthodox thinkers that visit the JREF/ISF forums over the years. What I am sure of, however, is that a deeper understanding of quantum physics, or a greater facility with calculating required size of reaction masses to attain various orbits, would not make me more persuasive to someone who does not accept this rather elementary, fundamental, aspect of physics. |
20th April 2019, 08:38 PM | #537 |
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Meadmaker, the best contribution to this thread so far.
Except, I still think Gingervytes is a troll :-). |
20th April 2019, 09:37 PM | #538 |
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I do, of course, realize it's a mistake, which is why I put it as I did. A person woefully ignorant of basic science ought, of course, to be persuaded by people who know what they're talking about, but it's quite clear that this is not actually effective in cases like this where, though it's perhaps impolite to say so, the problem is more akin to madness than to ignorance.
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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21st April 2019, 02:57 AM | #539 |
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It's worth bearing in mind that the notion that rockets can't work outside the atmosphere may just be a supporting argument the OP stumbled upon which seems to justify their core belief, e.g that the moon landings were faked.
It may well be that the OP is not interested in how rockets work, but having found a clever looking (to them) reason to reject the moon landings they will just keep repeating it to justify their gut feeling, which is no more than that their government lied. |
21st April 2019, 04:02 AM | #540 |
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You may be right. I said I believe Gingervytes is a troll - well. that is what the rational part of my mind says because nobody can be THAT stupid you know ;-). But my experience tells me otherwise. Scary.
Anyway, it looks like all the ideas our friend used come from that video he pointed at in the end. I watched it eventually and it is all there. Totally moronic. At one stage the author is talking about a rocket and he is showing it all on a picture of a jet engine... No wonder it wouldn't work in vacuum! I am singling out this point only because it is the easiest one to show, but the whole vid is just a continuous chain of absurd nonsense presented as rocket science. Highly recommended for its entertainment value, don't miss it! |
21st April 2019, 04:53 AM | #541 |
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21st April 2019, 05:19 AM | #542 |
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Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
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21st April 2019, 06:27 AM | #543 |
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Ever hear of the sound barrier? Ever hear of friction.
https://www.quora.com/Will-a-plane-g...m-air-friction |
21st April 2019, 06:30 AM | #544 |
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21st April 2019, 06:31 AM | #545 |
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What about the sound barrier and friction?
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21st April 2019, 06:31 AM | #546 |
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Experiments showing that there is no equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AubIFUsq7Ss |
21st April 2019, 06:33 AM | #547 |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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21st April 2019, 06:34 AM | #548 |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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21st April 2019, 06:34 AM | #549 |
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21st April 2019, 06:37 AM | #550 |
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Well can you help
Get my work published? |
21st April 2019, 06:46 AM | #551 |
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Flat Earth Theory: The unfortunate result of ordering pizza to satisfy munchies after smoking way too much weed to bring you down from that hectic acid trip. |
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21st April 2019, 06:49 AM | #552 |
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21st April 2019, 06:54 AM | #553 |
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Flat Earth Theory: The unfortunate result of ordering pizza to satisfy munchies after smoking way too much weed to bring you down from that hectic acid trip. |
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21st April 2019, 06:55 AM | #554 |
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The balloon car is such an experiment. Our explanation for why the balloon car moves forward is that the pressure gradient causes the air to be expelled from the balloon. The force on the air is coupled with an opposite and equal force on the balloon in the other direction, and since the balloon is attached to the car, the car moves forward.
In the video, they show a balloon car working, but they have an alternative explanation. They say that the forward motion of the car is caused when the air from the balloon pushes off the air from the atmosphere. Then, they show that it goes slower if a vacuum cleaner is activated behind the car. Their explanation is that the air is less dense behind the car, so there's less to push off of. What do you think would happen if a second vacuum cleaner were to be operated in front of the car? What is predicted by each of the two theories? (i.e. by our conventional theory, and by your theory challenging that conventional theory?) |
21st April 2019, 07:02 AM | #555 |
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Those publications usually demand a bit more mathematical rigor than you, or your videos seem to demonstrate.
If you were to work out all the forces in the balloon car experiment, and then make some predictions about similar experiments based on your theory, you would have some hope. So far, you, and your sources are a bit too vague. |
21st April 2019, 07:05 AM | #556 |
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OK. Here’s a handy checklist. You already comply with some of the points, so you have a head start. |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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21st April 2019, 07:14 AM | #557 |
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21st April 2019, 07:21 AM | #558 |
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I thought of a very simple experiment to test the theories. The vacuum cleaner experiment from the youtube video is explained, in your theory, by the lower atmospheric pressure behind the car.
So, why not compare the speed of the balloon car at sea level, versus the speed of the balloon car at high altitude. Your theory predicts that the car would go slower in the lower pressure found at high altitude. Our theory predicts that there would be a slight, probably difficult to measure, increase in speed because of a slight increase in exit velocity of the air, plus a tiny decrease in atmospheric drag. Another very, very, simple experiment would be to fire a rocket in space. A lot of us think this experiment was conducted successfully by Werner Von Braun in the 1940s, and repeated thousands of times since them, but you seem to have some doubt about those experiments. |
21st April 2019, 07:28 AM | #559 |
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Here's what I do to get my work published
1) Have a new result that would be a contribution to our scientific knowledge - you think you have that 2) write it up so to communicate it with the scientific world - YouTube videos and notes don't work here 3) submit it to an appropriate journal - something like Phys Rev A would be appropriate here Most journals have straightforward submission interfaces, so easy enough to do 4) if the editor deems it worthy, it will be sent to experts in the field for their assessment about suitability for publication 5) the reviewers may recommend revisions before publication, or may recommend rejection straight out. The editor will use the advice of the reviewers to determine whether to publish the paper That's the best help I can give, the rest is up to you. I fear your process is going to stall at step 4. There's no way the editor is going to waste reviewers' time with it. The reason I know that is that you've already had comments from actual experts, and they've laughed at you. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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21st April 2019, 07:48 AM | #560 |
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Flat Earth Theory: The unfortunate result of ordering pizza to satisfy munchies after smoking way too much weed to bring you down from that hectic acid trip. |
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