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18th April 2019, 08:39 AM | #281 |
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Because that's not an analogous system.
Newtonian mechanics defines its terms precisely. A "particle" is that upon which elementary forces act, and which exhibits unary reactions. A "system" is a collection of particles related by mechanics described in the laws of motion and other physical laws. We may reckon some of the physical phenomena of mechanics in terms of net effects, summed across the system. We can also describe different values for those same properties confined to their behavior within the system. Until you understand this, you cannot properly reason your way through Newtonian problems. A mass on a scale in a gravity field describes a system composed of the mass, the scale, and the Earth. When you lift the weight off the scale, you have introduced a force that is external to the system. There is no expectation that momentum will be conserved in that frame of reference. In a different frame of reference, the weight, the scale, the Earth, and you comprise a larger system. If you lift the weight off the scale, the net momentum of that system remains the same despite the velocity and position information of particles in that system having changed. There is no expectation that momentum will be conserved among all particles in a portion of the system. That is, how you specify the system is of utmost importance. |
18th April 2019, 08:39 AM | #282 |
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18th April 2019, 08:40 AM | #283 |
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Your logical fallacy is "argument from personal incredulity."
Quote:
See also "No one I know voted for Nixon." |
18th April 2019, 08:41 AM | #284 |
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See my previous statements. I have designed and built objects that were launched into space on rockets, although you are trying to apply the solopsist argument that I only saw it leave the ground and vanish into the sky. However, once those objects were in space, I was able to use their incorporated rocket propulsion systems to effect changes in their motion that I was able to confirm from the ground by tracking mechanisms independent of NASA. The observed movements conform to the prediction of Newtonian mechanics, including the third law of motion.
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18th April 2019, 08:42 AM | #285 |
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18th April 2019, 08:42 AM | #286 |
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18th April 2019, 08:43 AM | #287 |
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Blow up a balloon. Hold the neck of the balloon so that the air is trapped. Now release the neck. What happens? In the atmosphere, the balloon flies all about. What do you suppose would happen if that balloon was in the vacuum of space?
Is there any important difference between a balloon and a rocket? |
18th April 2019, 08:43 AM | #288 |
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I was not referring to your incorrect video, but an example on real world physics. I've watched that video some time ago, so don't tell me I haven't watched it. And yes it is totally flawed from the a physics understanding. You have been suckered into believing the video is correct, or you are using it to promote your disbelief in rockets travelling into space.
One of the posters asked you a question, what are all those dishes pointing at if it isn't satellites placed into orbit, or how does GPS work. You aren't a flat Earther by chance, because from what I've read it seems like it. We should go into that stupid idea as it isn't on task with your OP, just curious. |
18th April 2019, 08:44 AM | #289 |
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Since a pointless digression can only improve this thread, there was an amusing comic in the Order of the Stick webcomic, in which the party fighter went to a weapon shop to buy a polearm, and every one he asked for was out of stock for various reasons. "Glaive?" "Guisarme?" "Glaive-Guisarme?" "Guisarme-Glaive?" "Glaive-Glaive-Glaive-Guisarme-Glaive? "I think you're drifting into another sketch, sir." |
18th April 2019, 08:44 AM | #290 |
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Because the physics don't allow for it, or because of limitations on your ability to observe? You seem to have conflated your inability to observe a condition with proof that the condition itself cannot arise.
Again, the laws of motion are universal. You have agreed that fluids have mass, and therefore that the motion of fluids must have momentum. Newton's third law applies to systems in which that momentum is a factor. You have attempted to evade that by defining a rocket as a system that does not include its propellants. I have corrected that by giving you the appropriate definition of a system according to Newton, such that the law holds. So far you seem unable to explain, under the proper definitions, why Newton's third law should not hold for rockets. |
18th April 2019, 08:46 AM | #291 |
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I too am interested in learning where the rockets I fly go, if not into space. Everything about the system, over which I and my colleagues have complete control, behaves as if rockets work in space. What is happening instead? Who is making it happen? How are they making it happen?
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18th April 2019, 08:49 AM | #292 |
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Few years back I was on a Ticonderoga Class Cruiser that fired a missile into space to take out a satellite.
What the hell did we shoot down? Now I'm worried. |
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18th April 2019, 08:49 AM | #293 |
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18th April 2019, 08:50 AM | #294 |
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Personally, I'd like to know the exact definition of the point at which a sunstance becomes a fluid, and therefore not subject to Newton's Third Law. Plenty of materials (glass not included!!!!!!!!) flow under sufficient shear, and so are technically very high viscosity fluids. I want to know precisely how runny the Camembert has to get before it doesn't obey Newton's Third Law.
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18th April 2019, 08:50 AM | #295 |
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Also how do things like GPS and Satellite Radio and Cell Phones work if there's no space? Basically any over the horizon... anything. Or are they all myths too?
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18th April 2019, 08:50 AM | #296 |
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18th April 2019, 08:52 AM | #297 |
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18th April 2019, 08:53 AM | #298 |
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18th April 2019, 08:55 AM | #299 |
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18th April 2019, 08:58 AM | #300 |
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And the thing is I spend a lot of my navel career patching into satellite communications. I was an IT it was one of the main parts of my job. Satellite access request, antenna maintenance, solar weather reports.
Kind of wonder know what I was doing all those years. |
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18th April 2019, 09:06 AM | #301 |
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18th April 2019, 09:07 AM | #302 |
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My brother-in-law did that for years on the Perry-class frigates.
Quote:
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18th April 2019, 09:10 AM | #303 |
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Also think about the political implications of this. For the entire space industry to be wrong... literally everybody has to be in on it. The US, the Russian, the European Space Agency, India, Japan, China... all have to be in on it completely and practically every country on Earth is gonna have to be in on it at least a little.
So basically all politics is a lie because all these countries really secretly behind the scenes get along enough to keep perpetrating this myth. So basically we've also solved world peace, as all the fighting and political saber rattling has to be for show because no one is gonna risk one of the other "LOL Space Faring LOL" nations from getting mad enough to let the cat out of the bag. |
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18th April 2019, 09:19 AM | #304 |
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18th April 2019, 09:25 AM | #305 |
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No it's just funny to me that the "implications" of the Conspiracy are bigger and a better story then just the conspiracy theory.
Why if "All of modern history, at the very, very least since the dawn of the space program (and that would bring World War 2 in questions since so much of the space program is a direct off shoot of missile and rocket development of that conflict, but if you call World War 2 in question you have to call World War 1 into question since they are directly linked conflicts, but World War 1 happened largely because of the complicated social-political structure of treaties and agreements brought about after the Napoleonic Wars and so forth and so forth back to the dawn history basically) has basically been a complete and total lie because politics we know it can't exist because rockets don't exist" focus on the "Rockets don't exist" part of that? |
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18th April 2019, 09:37 AM | #306 |
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18th April 2019, 09:42 AM | #307 |
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18th April 2019, 09:42 AM | #308 |
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When do we get our shill hush money?
Also how does everyone categorize their shill hush money for tax purposes? I don't want to pay anymore taxes on my shill hush money then I have to. |
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18th April 2019, 09:44 AM | #309 |
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18th April 2019, 09:44 AM | #310 |
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18th April 2019, 09:45 AM | #311 |
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18th April 2019, 09:50 AM | #312 |
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18th April 2019, 09:51 AM | #313 |
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18th April 2019, 09:55 AM | #314 |
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18th April 2019, 09:55 AM | #315 |
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This seems a perfect analogy.
We know that ships work inshore because we can all watch them sailing. But imagine if your instinctive belief was that they only stay afloat because when the ship settles down into the water, it increases the pressure between its hull and the seabed, and that gives the hull something to push against which holds the ship up. If it sailed beyond the continental shelf into deep ocean there would be nothing to push against and the ship would just sink. |
18th April 2019, 09:58 AM | #316 |
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WHO TOLD YOU THAT!
I mean... that totally not how it works and it's certainly not true that all the Navies in the world are just party boats that go about an hours away from shore, drink cheap beer for a few months, and come back in and tell you about all the cool wars we've been fighting. No sirree certainly not true. *Whistles* |
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18th April 2019, 09:59 AM | #317 |
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18th April 2019, 09:59 AM | #318 |
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No, you didn't answer the question. The question was in what direction the rocket exhaust expands, not why it expands. I think your insistence on answering a different question is evidence that you know the implications of the correct answer for your claims. The direction in which a rocket exhaust expands matters.
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18th April 2019, 10:01 AM | #319 | |||
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Jerry Sprockets is no match for Cogswell and his mighty Cogs!!
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18th April 2019, 10:02 AM | #320 |
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