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Tags Occupy movement , protest incidents , protest rallies , rape incidents

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Old 21st May 2014, 07:33 PM   #1
MattusMaximus
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Thumbs up Operation American Spring... is an epic fail

Wow, who could have seen this one coming?

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/...epic-fail.html
Quote:
This weekend, 10 to 30 million patriotic Americans were supposed to descend on Washington, D.C. and take back America from the Marxist regime of President Obama. The plan was to have millions ‘peacefully’ demonstrate for three days. After the demonstration was over, one million people would then stay in Washington and force the non-Tea Party elected officials in D.C, starting with the President, to resign from office. At that point, tribunals led by the likes of Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Allen West, Jim DeMint and Mike Lee would convene and conduct investigations, while the new Congress, consisting of only like-minded individuals, would appoint a new President and replacements of those who were removed from office.

Hrafnkell Haraldsson already covered the unmitigated disaster that was the Operation American Spring weekend protest. At best, a few hundred individuals appeared this weekend for the rally. Of the few that did show up, many were true zealots and lunatics hoping to get noticed. Hrafnkell did a great job providing the names of some of the crazies that made appearances and what they hoped to accomplish this weekend. ...
Seems like these clowns took a page from the Cliven Bundy book of... whatever...

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Old 21st May 2014, 08:09 PM   #2
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I think you may have missed the party.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=273188

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Old 21st May 2014, 10:36 PM   #3
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Yeah, we Republicans don't do revolution in the streets.
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Old 21st May 2014, 10:44 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yeah, we Republicans don't do revolution in the streets.
No, you steal it with voter disqualifications, gerrymandering, and dodging campaign finance laws.
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Old 21st May 2014, 11:05 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yeah, we Republicans don't do revolution in the streets.
Rural Nevada roads?

Seems to me your statement should've been, ".... don't do revolution in the streets very well", 'cuz it seems that a whole lot of them keep trying their hands at it and it also sure seems to me that I'm hearing a lot of verbage out of your militant right wing about watering the tree of liberty and Second Amendment Solutions.

What these idiots proposed was nothing short of a putsch, but they wrap themselves in the flag and the Constitution, just like the miscreants making up the Bundy Bunch. Do you actually identify them as "we Republicans"? Is this just your naughty wing? "Oh, jes' a bunch of the good ol' boys having theyselves some fun. Don' mean nothing by it."

If that's your party you can cry if you want to. I'd cry too if it happened to me-e.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 08:05 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jj View Post
No, you steal it with voter disqualifications, gerrymandering, and dodging campaign finance laws.
I think in the 1960 election in Chicago this is how the conversation went. John Daley to JFK "How many votes do you need there, Jack?". In my opinion only.

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Old 22nd May 2014, 08:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ABC10 View Post
In my opinion only.
Was this revelation gleaned during the time you voted straight Democratic and were marching and sitting in for equal rights, or was it after you started spouting far right wing dogma and supporting folks like George Zimmerman, Cliven Bundy, and Donald Sterling?
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Old 22nd May 2014, 08:29 AM   #8
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We could look at this in a positive light.

They accomplished the same thing that the Occupy movement accomplished, but without making the same amount of mess.

So they got that going for them, which is nice.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 10:01 AM   #9
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Operation American Spring... is an epic fail

Originally Posted by ABC10 View Post
I think in the 1960 election in Chicago this is how the conversation went. John Daley to JFK "How many votes do you need there, Jack?". In my opinion only.
That would have been a pretty impressive feat for a 14 year old kid.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 10:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
We could look at this in a positive light.

They accomplished the same thing that the Occupy movement accomplished, but without making the same amount of mess.

So they got that going for them, which is nice.
You beat me to it. There is something to be said for a protest movement without the rapes, arson, and vandalism.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 09:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer View Post
That would have been a pretty impressive feat for a 14 year old kid.
Methinks he meant:

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Old 23rd May 2014, 05:14 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
You beat me to it. There is something to be said for a protest movement without the rapes, arson, and vandalism.
And poop.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 05:30 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
And poop.
Well, three out of four ain't bad...
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Old 23rd May 2014, 05:33 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
You beat me to it. There is something to be said for a protest movement without the rapes, arson, and vandalism.

If they had been there for more than a day or two, it might be another story.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 07:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
You beat me to it. There is something to be said for a protest movement without the rapes, arson, and vandalism.
...and people.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 08:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
You beat me to it. There is something to be said for a protest movement without the rapes, arson, and vandalism.
or a valid point to make.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 08:48 AM   #17
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Sadly OAS is still suffering death spasms. The are under the impression that the annual Rolling Thunder motorcycle rally for POW's is going to be there to bolster their numbers.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 08:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
You beat me to it. There is something to be said for a protest movement without the rapes, arson, and vandalism.
You know, you claim to be a libertarian who isn't a part of the GOP culture wars, but you sure do absorb a great deal of Breitbartian politics.

"Rapes"?

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Old 23rd May 2014, 09:07 AM   #19
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From the OAS forum,

Quote:
To any and all doubters: the patriots will be in DC this weekend, when the hundreds of thousands of bikers arriving for the annual Rolling Thunder rally 'turn right' and join forces with OAS!! And Colonel Riley will be leading them!!
Something tells me that while some RT participants may agree with OAS the leadership of RT, that has for years been a voice for POW's, will not take kindly to a handful of disorganized racists trying to co-opt their annual event.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 09:16 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
You know, you claim to be a libertarian who isn't a part of the GOP culture wars, but you sure do absorb a great deal of Breitbartian politics.

"Rapes"?

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Yes, at "Occupy Cleveland" an underage girl was made to share a tent with a man and reported being raped to both the Occupy people and the police.

It's worth noting that in the aftermath, some of the occupiers accused the victim of being a CIA "plant", which is classy.

ETA: I believe it was subsequent to this incident that the Wall Street camp asked its residents not to report sex crimes to the police, but rather to the camp "committee". Presumably so that the offender could (maybe) be quietly kicked out of the camp while avoiding bad press.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 09:52 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yes, at "Occupy Cleveland" an underage girl was made to share a tent with a man and reported being raped to both the Occupy people and the police.

It's worth noting that in the aftermath, some of the occupiers accused the victim of being a CIA "plant", which is classy.

ETA: I believe it was subsequent to this incident that the Wall Street camp asked its residents not to report sex crimes to the police, but rather to the camp "committee". Presumably so that the offender could (maybe) be quietly kicked out of the camp while avoiding bad press.
Links to this?

ETA: I found this article and most of what you wrote appears to be factually incorrect.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/1...she-was-raped/

The woman was 19, she reported it to her teacher, and there's no mention of anyone telling women not to report sexual assaults.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 09:58 AM   #22
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Did the alleged rape at Occupy Cleaveland result in a conviction?
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Old 23rd May 2014, 05:30 PM   #23
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STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!

OAS was an amazing success and thousands turned out to remove the usuper in chief President.

To celebrate the turnout and the thousands that remain in Washington Riley has announced that OAS is now moving into Phase II.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...verthrow-obama

Quote:
Declaring the event to be a success, Riley said Operation American Spring is now entering a second phase in its plan to oust President Obama and top administration officials.

“We’re still in that process, we were in a mobilization phase, now we’re in phase II of exercising our strength and length of phase.”
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Old 23rd May 2014, 06:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Alareth View Post
STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!

OAS was an amazing success and thousands turned out to remove the usuper in chief President.

To celebrate the turnout and the thousands that remain in Washington Riley has announced that OAS is now moving into Phase II.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...verthrow-obama
... Do they ever say what phase II is?
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Old 23rd May 2014, 06:52 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Alareth View Post
STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!......

OAS was an amazing success
Nice
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Old 23rd May 2014, 06:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Alareth View Post
STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!......

OAS was an amazing success
Okay
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Old 23rd May 2014, 07:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
...and people.
Yup. It's pretty easy to have few problems with few people.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 09:25 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
... Do they ever say what phase II is?
Originally they said that Phase One would be the initial event, with 10 to 30 million people. If Obama was still around after the first week or so, then Phase 2 wold start.

Phase 2 was to be about a million people campingout in D.C. until the revolution succeeded.

Very realistic planning.
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Old 24th May 2014, 05:56 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
... Do they ever say what phase II is?
It seems "exercising our strength and length of phase" was it. I think, like crescent says, that means "sticking around for a while."

Now, I was just a poor little old squid, and I'll admit we didn't get a whole lot of instruction in your fancy military terms like "mobilization" and "Phase II," so I have to wonder- do you normally follow up with a Phase II that was predicated on "10 million or more people that are going to be there to back this up, verified, validated" for the mobilization part, when, by your own estimate, you fall about ten million short of that?
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Old 24th May 2014, 06:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
It seems "exercising our strength and length of phase" was it. I think, like crescent says, that means "sticking around for a while."

Now, I was just a poor little old squid, and I'll admit we didn't get a whole lot of instruction in your fancy military terms like "mobilization" and "Phase II," so I have to wonder- do you normally follow up with a Phase II that was predicated on "10 million or more people that are going to be there to back this up, verified, validated" for the mobilization part, when, by your own estimate, you fall about ten million short of that?
I'm guessing that their math teachers graded on the curve. "Uh, colonel... if Tommy had four hundred apples and you took away 90% how many apples would Tommy have?"

"Ummmm, is this going to be on the test....? ..... A million!"
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Old 24th May 2014, 06:11 AM   #31
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I just hope they don't get to Phase IV where the hyper intelligent ants take over the world.
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Old 24th May 2014, 07:00 AM   #32
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The orders the Col issued for OAS were a failure. The first phase of the operation was a failure (I've seen Cub Scout camps that were better attended and that got more media attention) and he thinks that it's time for phase 2?

If this was something he tried to put forward at staff college he'd have failed out.
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Old 24th May 2014, 08:59 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by thrombus29 View Post
I just hope they don't get to Phase IV where the hyper intelligent ants take over the world.

You know, sometimes I think this might actually be an improvement. At least they have "intelligent" in their name.
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Old 25th May 2014, 12:08 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Links to this?

ETA: I found this article and most of what you wrote appears to be factually incorrect.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/1...she-was-raped/

The woman was 19, she reported it to her teacher, and there's no mention of anyone telling women not to report sexual assaults.
You are correct. I appear to have conflated the rape in Cleveland with the one in Dallas.

However, it was indeed the bulletin board of the Cleveland protesters where I saw that victim referred to (a few months after the fact) as a "CIA plant" by posters. In fairness, the operators of the website did keep a description of the assailant as given by the victim on their main page.
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Old 25th May 2014, 12:21 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
You are correct. I appear to have conflated the rape in Cleveland with the one in Dallas.

However, it was indeed the bulletin board of the Cleveland protesters where I saw that victim referred to (a few months after the fact) as a "CIA plant" by posters. In fairness, the operators of the website did keep a description of the assailant as given by the victim on their main page.
But even in your new link, they specifically urge people to contact police. There's no urging of anyone to avoid reporting rapes. That appears to be a complete myth.

So what you've described is not OWS people committing sexual assaults, it's them being VICTIMS of sexual assaults.

I have no idea who accused them of being "CIA plants". Maybe those were CIA plants?
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Old 25th May 2014, 12:28 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
You know, you claim to be a libertarian who isn't a part of the GOP culture wars, but you sure do absorb a great deal of Breitbartian politics.

"Rapes"?

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Nice try on the ad hominem. If you want links, here are some links.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-philadelphia/

http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/211...cupy-Cleveland

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/a...occupy-dallas/
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Old 25th May 2014, 01:08 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ravdin View Post
We've already been discussing this. You're using the Benghazi logic here. This wasn't a scandal BY OWS, it was a crime AGAINST OWS. So when you describe OWS, it's not fair to accuse them of being rapists or abetting rape. In fact, that's pretty disgusting.
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Old 25th May 2014, 01:20 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
But even in your new link, they specifically urge people to contact police. There's no urging of anyone to avoid reporting rapes. That appears to be a complete myth.
It may well have been but if so, it was a fairly widespread one at the time, and was perpetuated by at least some members of OWS themselves who stated that they preferred to chase assailants away rather than turn them in to police. The statements in the article I linked about always contacting police were made in response to rebukes by the mayor of New York for the aforementioned preference.

Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
So what you've described is not OWS people committing sexual assaults, it's them being VICTIMS of sexual assaults.
Special pleading. Inasmuch as participating in the OWS protests meant showing up and camping in the public space along with all the other attendees, the assailants were just as much participants as the victims were.
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Old 25th May 2014, 01:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It may well have been but if so, it was a fairly widespread one at the time, and was perpetuated by at least some members of OWS themselves who stated that they preferred to chase assailants away rather than turn them in to police. The statements in the article I linked about always contacting police were made in response to rebukes by the mayor of New York for the aforementioned preference.
Well there's a pretty big jump from people who resort to vigilantism vs., for instance, what the Catholic Church did, which was to actively cover for the rapists. I don't agree with what they did, but again, there's a distinction here to be made.

Quote:
Special pleading. Inasmuch as participating in the OWS protests meant showing up and camping in the public space along with all the other attendees, the assailants were just as much participants as the victims were.
Well no, since we don't know who the assailants were. It's possible (and perhaps even likely) that sexual predators just go where they think they can get away with it, and a campground full of hippies may have been easy pickings.

Note that unlike the right wingers, police consistently break up left wing protests with force, be it at UC Davis or OWS. It's far more likely that lefty protesters see police as unfriendly to them or their cause. This would explain why they preferred to avoid the police and took matters into their own hands when they could. The assertion that anyone abetted rape is what's at issue here.
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Old 25th May 2014, 01:57 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Well no, since we don't know who the assailants were. It's possible (and perhaps even likely) that sexual predators just go where they think they can get away with it, and a campground full of hippies may have been easy pickings.
Both the victims and their rapists were present at the protest before the rapes, just like all the other protesters. Both remained at the protest site in tents, just like all the other protesters. While it's a truism that any given person at the protest could possibly be there without any interest in the actual protest, if the only reason you can offer as to why we should consider the victims as "true" OWS protesters but not their rapists is that the latter committed a rape, that's a special pleading. Is there a compelling reason why someone who sympathized with the OWS movement could not be a rapist?
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