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Tags Charles Kinsey , Jonathan Aledda , police misconduct charges , police shootings , racial incidents , racism charges

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Old 21st July 2016, 11:12 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He was only hit once, three rounds were discharged by officer Opps.
Even so, my leg would be a mangled mess from an AR-15 round.

In no way would it feel like a "mosquito bite".

Possibly ricochet and debris, perhaps?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:12 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
...

Why would a police force meet a suicidal person with raised weapons and orders of "DROP THE WEAPON" barked at them? How is that in any way a meaningful interaction?

So many questions...
On the officer side of this debate, the Dallas Chief had an excellent observation about this. As the legislators cut back treatment for the mentally ill, it falls on the cops, and no they aren't trained.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard cops claim anyone getting shot other than in a shootout it was, "suicide by cop". It doesn't bother them a bit when they say it, as if the victim deserved it.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:12 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
That's not what I said.
So what are you claiming then, you seemed to think it was basically impossible that this gun was anything other than semiauto only. So cite your source for that.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:13 AM   #164
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5.56 leg wound.

WARNING! NSFW! GRAPHIC!

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ning-GRAPHIC**
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:15 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Even so, my leg would be a mangled mess from an AR-15 round.

In no way would it feel like a "mosquito bite".

Possibly ricochet and debris, perhaps?
Wounds are weird, like with burns they can be very unpredictable exactly how much they hurt or do not hurt. Got any actual evidence for the lack of severity of his being shot?
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:15 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So what are you claiming then, you seemed to think it was basically impossible that this gun was anything other than semiauto only. So cite your source for that.
That's not what I said.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:16 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
That's not what I said.
So you then have specific knowledge about the rifle used? What did you mean with the constant rebuttal that the 3 round fired could be a result of a 3 round burst?
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:19 AM   #168
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Ironic that lack of training and competence ( ... with regard to marksmanship ) of the police officer probably saved the man's life.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:21 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Has anyone in this thread thus far indicated that he/she thinks the victim deserved to be shot?
Applecorped comes pretty close acting like we should brush off an accidental discharge (maybe of a 3-burst rifle round), like give the police free range to screw up, never criticize them for anything.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:21 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So you then have specific knowledge about the rifle used? What did you mean with the constant rebuttal that the 3 round fired could be a result of a 3 round burst?
I didn't say that.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:23 AM   #171
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I'll ask my brother what kind of M4 he is issued. It may be just semi automatic. But there is no reason it can't have three round burst or even full auto capabilities. Police departments can purchase those weapons if they want.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:23 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Applecorped comes pretty close acting like we should brush off an accidental discharge (maybe of a 3-burst rifle round), like give the police free range to screw up, never criticize them for anything.
I actually would too. Or say well, maybe put him on desk duty. If he had good reason to be pointing his rifle at someone with a potential split second reason to shoot. But he didn't. He was pointing it at an unarmed man with his hands in the air explaining that he was trying to help an also unarmed mentally ill person.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:24 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
The truck could have been loaded.
Since no one died.

You can't blame the police for being concerned about the toy truck - in 2014 alone 11 people were killed by toys and a quarter million of people injured. Why there isn't stronger regulation on these deadly and dangerous toys I simply don't know.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:26 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
I didn't say that.
Then what was the constant absolute refusal that this rifle could be anything other than semiauto all about?
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:27 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Wounds are weird, like with burns they can be very unpredictable exactly how much they hurt or do not hurt. Got any actual evidence for the lack of severity of his being shot?
I just don't think you can take a direct hit in the leg at close range with an AR-15 round and think it was a mosquito bite, or have much chance of keeping your leg.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:27 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
I actually would too. Or say well, maybe put him on desk duty. If he had good reason to be pointing his rifle at someone with a potential split second reason to shoot. But he didn't. He was pointing it at an unarmed man with his hands in the air explaining that he was trying to help an also unarmed mentally ill person.
Is it accurate to class an autistic man as mentally ill?
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:28 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I just don't think you can take a direct hit in the leg at close range with an AR-15 round and think it was a mosquito bite, or have much chance of keeping your leg.
Pain and injuries of all kinds are strange things.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:28 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Is it accurate to class an autistic man as mentally ill?
I have no idea, if I made a faux pas, I apologize.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:30 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I just don't think you can take a direct hit in the leg at close range with an AR-15 round and think it was a mosquito bite, or have much chance of keeping your leg.
If it hit the bone then his odds of losing the leg are pretty high. Otherwise it can be saved. You might be right though.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:31 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Pain and injuries of all kinds are strange things.
Yes. I know a young man who took a .45 Hollowpoint through the thigh and...it didn't hurt. Very strange, but true. Thank gawd an artery wasn't clipped!
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:31 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
No...They do not.
Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
That's not what I said.
So here we have you flat out stating that many police rifles are in no way anything other than semi-auto and then flat out claiming you never said that.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:33 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Pain and injuries of all kinds are strange things.
Not with these extremely high velocity rounds.

The injuries are pretty predictable and recognizable.

At any rate, we still have a cop out there who should lose his job.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:33 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Pain and injuries of all kinds are strange things.
This is why I think the weapon (we'll find out for sure in some future news report) was a smaller calibre sidearm, possibly with low load. It may also have grazed or passed through clean.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:35 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Yes. I know a young man who took a .45 Hollowpoint through the thigh and...it didn't hurt. Very strange, but true. Thank gawd an artery wasn't clipped!
Low velocity and probably did not even expand.

Typical 5.56 round is about 4X the velocity.

I still suspect a ricochet and/or debris.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:35 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Two things:
  1. He was laying on the ground with his hands in the air. Clearly, he was resisting arrest.
  2. The police shot him. He obviously cops only shoot criminals, so there.
And a third thing, if a bystander some distance away using a phone camera upon which you can clearly see a grown man playing with a toy truck and hear the victim say, "It's a toy truck," .... how hard is that to see if you are there on the scene?
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:35 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I just don't think you can take a direct hit in the leg at close range with an AR-15 round and think it was a mosquito bite, or have much chance of keeping your leg.
Depending on where it hit it's possible. I was tagged just above the knee by a .222 & I fell in mid stride, thought I'd tripped & banged my knee on something. Didn't realize I'd been shot until I looked.

Not saying it wasn't a ricochet mind you, but it is possible to not feel like you'd think.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:36 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
This is why I think the weapon (we'll find out for sure in some future news report) was a smaller calibre sidearm, possibly with low load. It may also have grazed or passed through clean.
Ahh...yes.

That is probably the best answer.

It was a pistol round.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:37 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I can actually understand cuffing him. People often react angrily and violently when someone shoots them (imagine that).

The rest just boggles my mind. A 20 minute wait for medical care? What, did they call their union reps before the EMTs?
Gee, guess we should be cuffing people in the ED, never know when they are going to slug you if you hurt them during an exam.

Sorry, I'm not buying that, cuff first, figure out the bloody obvious after. Your gun accidentally went off, there was no man with a gun, it was a toy truck!!! How long does that take to figure out?
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:39 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And a third thing, if a bystander some distance away using a phone camera upon which you can clearly see a grown man playing with a toy truck and hear the victim say, "It's a toy truck," .... how hard is that to see if you are there on the scene?
"It was like a mosquito bite, and when it hit me, I'm like, I still got my hands in the air, and I said, 'No I just got shot!' And I'm saying, 'Sir, why did you shoot me?'" Kinsey recalled, "and his words to me, he said, 'I don't know.'"

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...ile-he-n614106


That's pretty-much spot-on.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:39 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
You can't seriously think that "Police militarization for the win" is a serious position to hold?
For the record, I thought it was hilarious, and apt, and I fail to see how anyone thought it was anything but a joke.

Sorry Jrrarglblarg.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:39 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Applecorped comes pretty close acting like we should brush off an accidental discharge (maybe of a 3-burst rifle round), like give the police free range to screw up, never criticize them for anything.
At five pages in that's quite a reach. Don't you think?
Even taken at face value (that it was an accident, and not in any way criminal) it still doesn't in any way convey the sentiment that the victim "deserved" to be shot.

Maybe this thread illustrates something WRT other threads discussing officer shootings.
Some things are more "obvious" than others.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:40 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Gee, guess we should be cuffing people in the ED, never know when they are going to slug you if you hurt them during an exam.

Sorry, I'm not buying that, cuff first, figure out the bloody obvious after. Your gun accidentally went off, there was no man with a gun, it was a toy truck!!! How long does that take to figure out?
Over 20 minutes apparently.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:40 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
The 20 minute wait was for an arrest squad not medical care. He was taken to hospital from jail, not the scene. ....
Are you sure? It's SOP to take people to the ED, not the jail clinic for a GSW.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:42 AM   #194
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2 (out of 3) of my young adult kids are on the autistic spectrum. One of them is routinely mistaken for mixed-race.

This is one of the reasons I fear and distrust police.

And yes, the local police have not only shot people in mental health crisis, they've also let them bleed to death rather than get medical help.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:43 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Ahh...yes.

That is probably the best answer.

It was a pistol round.
The odds of it being burst fire is next to zero then, and he really did fire three time. Yes I know such pistols do exist.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:43 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And now you are trying to ruin a mans career for one little mistake.
It depends. First, it wasn't a little mistake. Second all of their actions after shots fired at a minimum need disciplinary action. Third, whether the shooter is fired depends on his work record, but this should not be some little report that shows up in his annual review. An accidental discharge is a mistake of the highest magnitude.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:45 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
As I said before .. I'm quite sure police did not want shoot the black man. If they were intentionally shooting at anyone, it was the man with autism, who clearly disobeyed anything police said, and had an object in his hands.
If the gun was in burst mode, then it simply was negligent discharge. If it was not, then it was very poor shooting.

As for handcuffs .. my friend was once not let into USA on the airport, cause he had wrong type of visa. They told him that have to detain him until next plane flies, and he had to be handcuffed all the time he was transported (walked and taken by the car) to the detainment room, which basically was a overnight jail. The cop straight out apologized for that and said that sadly it's regulation, and that he can't walk or take anyone into car without handcuffs.

So I wouldn't find it surprising if they were to handcuff even wounded persons, especially if the person is wounded lightly.

That doesn't mean I don't find it ridiculous.
You don't handcuff accident victims just because you caused the accident. Your analogy is a fail.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:54 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
The odds of it being burst fire is next to zero then, and he really did fire three time. Yes I know such pistols do exist.
Yeah, but they're not common, and they're certainly not standard police issue.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:55 AM   #199
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Try reading the article.
He's complaining about the 'another hands up' as if Brown was the only time that has occurred. He thinks that never happens.

Video Shows UNARMED Man With Hands Up Right Before Cops Shoot and Kill Him Oh wait, that guy was white.

Here's a black man:
New Jersey Cops Shot Man With Hands Up, Get Away With Video Recorded Murder

That search took less than a minute.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:56 AM   #200
crescent
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Hearsay...of the worst sort.
Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
That's not what I said.
Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
That's not what I said.
Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
I didn't say that.
Okay, first things first: Being cryptic is a poor communication strategy. It does not make you look intelligent, it makes it look like you are trying to avoid substantive communication.

What about my comment was hearsay? I can find multiple sources indicating that many police departments are equipped with selective fire rifles.

I don't know what the man in question was shot with, I am only arguing what is possible, based on how American municipal police departments are often equipped.
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