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Tags celebrity incidents , celebrity opinions , Ellen Degeneres , George W. Bush

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Old 9th October 2019, 07:36 AM   #81
theprestige
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Just as some consider the sky not to be blue or water to be wet.
Blue sky and wet water tend to have pretty clear-cut meanings, based on measured or defined physical properties.

"Major Republican", not so much. For sure, Trump is POTUS, and campaigned under the GOP banner. It's totally understandable that some people will consider that to be "a major Republican." If that's your opinion, it makes sense to me, and I'm not going to try to contradict you, or ridicule you for seeing it that way. I see it a little differently, though.

The way I see it, Trump is certainly a major Republican on paper (POTUS, GOP ticket). But he's not part of the GOP establishment. And he's not a conservative thought leader the way Buckley was, or even the way the folks at NRO are today. Or even really a conservative thinker at all. Even though he has a major role in the governing of the nation, I don't see that he has a major role in the direction of the GOP or the ideology of conservatives in general. As an elected official under the GOP banner, he's too much of an anomaly for me to consider him a "major Republican".

He's definitely a major something, but if you'd asked me even five years ago, I'd have said he's an apolitical opportunist with a left-leaning facade. I don't think campaigning under the GOP banner has magically turned him into a poster child for, or leader of, the Republican agenda. Especially considering the amount of backlash he's gotten from more longstanding and mainstream Republicans whose jobs don't depend on their ability to make something productive out of the fact that he's in the White House.

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Old 9th October 2019, 07:37 AM   #82
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The thing that really irks me about Ellen's closeness to Dubya is the fact that he stringently opposed LGBTQ marriage while in office, and proposed a constitutional admendment banning it. That goes a bit beyond a "difference of opinion". Personally, I would have a very hard time being friends with someone who didn't believe that I had a right to exist and be treated as fully and equally human. But rich white people clearly have more in common with each other than they do with the peon masses.
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:42 AM   #83
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I'm not about to tell the lesbian she doesn't hate someone enough for being anti-gay. I think she's a better judge of it then I am.

For all the "Check your privilege" talk among progressives they never seem to have a problem telling minorities they aren't offended enough for their taste.
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:49 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm not about to tell the lesbian she doesn't hate someone enough for being anti-gay. I think she's a better judge of it then I am.

For all the "Check your privilege" talk among progressives they never seem to have a problem telling minorities they aren't offended enough for their taste.

As someone who has repeatedly faced threats of violence and ostracism simply for being LGBTQ, I am very comfortable telling someone to check their privilege for being friends with a person who encouraged and enforced marginalization and oppression of LGBTQ people.
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:53 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Listen this is how I've always looked at it.

Ask yourself these questions and be honest.

Step 1. Take the whatever "the system" is you are discussing; anything from a 1 on 1 personal relationship to the entire functioning culture or society or anything in between.

Step 2. Ask yourself where "the line" is. At what point does someone stop being wrong or misinformed or "just having a different opinion" but instead becomes the enemy.

Step 3. Are there enough people on your side of "the line" to maintain the system defined in Step 1?

If the answer is no, you HAVE TO ADJUST THE LINE.
There's no line between black and white
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:56 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't remember Michelle Obama's friendship with George Bush causing anyone any concern.

But I don't know if African American Woman or Gay Woman ranks higher or lower on the "Woke" scale. I haven't gotten my updated copy of the flowchart yet this month so maybe Ellen is more of a traitor to cause then Michelle.
The highlighted statement is incoherent, as there's no "woke scale" for people to "rank" on.

Originally Posted by luchog View Post
The thing that really irks me about Ellen's closeness to Dubya is the fact that he stringently opposed LGBTQ marriage while in office, and proposed a constitutional admendment banning it. That goes a bit beyond a "difference of opinion". Personally, I would have a very hard time being friends with someone who didn't believe that I had a right to exist and be treated as fully and equally human. But rich white people clearly have more in common with each other than they do with the peon masses.
Can't say I blame you there. It's also worth pointing out that GWB's push for LGBT marriage bans was a cynical attempt to turn black voters into republicans - and given his administration's dismal record on racial civil rights, I'd have much preferred that he did something to end gerrymandering, or to stop the dismantling of the Civil Rights division of the DoJ in general.

I don't care much about Ellen, nor about GWB now that he's not president - but I have to wonder just how much are we supposed to let slide? I'm not even going to say that he caused the financial collapse (though he didn't help), or single-handedly drowned New Orleans (there's lots of blame to go around there). But the Iraq War, and letting Osama slide both before 9/11 and afterwards, were on him, among other major problems.

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Old 9th October 2019, 07:57 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Blue sky and wet water tend to have pretty clear-cut meanings, based on measured or defined physical properties.

"Major Republican", not so much. For sure, Trump is POTUS, and campaigned under the GOP banner. It's totally understandable that some people will consider that to be "a major Republican." If that's your opinion, it makes sense to me, and I'm not going to try to contradict you, or ridicule you for seeing it that way. I see it a little differently, though.

The way I see it, Trump is certainly a major Republican on paper (POTUS, GOP ticket). But he's not part of the GOP establishment. And he's not a conservative thought leader the way Buckley was, or even the way the folks at NRO are today. Or even really a conservative thinker at all. Even though he has a major role in the governing of the nation, I don't see that he has a major role in the direction of the GOP or the ideology of conservatives in general. As an elected official under the GOP banner, he's too much of an anomaly for me to consider him a "major Republican".

He's definitely a major something, but if you'd asked me even five years ago, I'd have said he's an apolitical opportunist with a left-leaning facade. I don't think campaigning under the GOP banner has magically turned him into a poster child or leader of the Republican agenda. Especially considering the amount of backlash he's gotten from more longstanding and mainstream Republicans whose jobs don't depend on their ability to make something productive out of the fact that he's in the White House.
This is a thoughtful and well-articulated argument, and I appreciate it.

I, however, very much disagree.

Republicans chose Trump over a fairly robust field of other Republican candidates and made him their president. And the majority of them continue to give him their support.

Whether or not Trump reflects traditional Republican principles has less to do with him and more to do with how much Republicans in general have abandoned those principles.

I think the reflexive need for some Republicans to distance themselves from Trump is very understandable.

But to them I say: You've made your bed, now you have to lie in it. Even if Trump did take a giant **** on your pillow.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:03 AM   #88
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bds never dies
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:06 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm not about to tell the lesbian she doesn't hate someone enough for being anti-gay. I think she's a better judge of it then I am.

For all the "Check your privilege" talk among progressives they never seem to have a problem telling minorities they aren't offended enough for their taste.
I think that's a pretty unfair characterization of at least some of the complaints.

TragicMonkey and luchog in particular have made very good arguments about why they are troubled by this.

Not only is it unfair to dismiss what they say as some kind of progressive hypocrisy, but that dismissal is actually part of the problem that leads to these complaints in the first place.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:07 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
bds never dies
From his latest tweets, it seems to be something that the current President suffers from.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:08 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
bds never dies
Amen, brother.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:33 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The highlighted statement is incoherent, as there's no "woke scale" for people to "rank" on.
It's probably at least a decade too late for you to pretend you're unaware of the concept of intersectionality and its application to questions of social justice.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:42 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
The thing that really irks me about Ellen's closeness to Dubya is the fact that he stringently opposed LGBTQ marriage while in office, and proposed a constitutional admendment banning it. That goes a bit beyond a "difference of opinion". Personally, I would have a very hard time being friends with someone who didn't believe that I had a right to exist and be treated as fully and equally human. But rich white people clearly have more in common with each other than they do with the peon masses.
I'm with JoeMorgue on this one.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:47 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I think that's a pretty unfair characterization of at least some of the complaints.

TragicMonkey and luchog in particular have made very good arguments about why they are troubled by this.

Not only is it unfair to dismiss what they say as some kind of progressive hypocrisy, but that dismissal is actually part of the problem that leads to these complaints in the first place.
Furthermore, this whole affair does more to highlight right-wing hypocrisy.

George W Bush has made the entire world significantly worse with his actions, and yet we are meant to believe that he deserves forgiveness he never asked for, for the wrongdoing that he has never acknowledged.

Compare that to the right-wing reaction to Jussie Smollett, who did a bad, though comparatively negligible action. I don't think too many of his critics are waiting in line to have a beer with him.

Right-wing guys should have their wrongdoing ignored. Perceived left-wing guys should have their wrongdoing punished with the fury of an angry god. I'm not stupid. I see the game being played.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:51 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
As someone who has repeatedly faced threats of violence and ostracism simply for being LGBTQ, I am very comfortable telling someone to check their privilege for being friends with a person who encouraged and enforced marginalization and oppression of LGBTQ people.
So how do you get someone to change their opinion if you don't engage with them? By finding common ground and becoming friends, I think it can only be good for the LGBTQ community if Ellen can start making GWB rethink his stance. Instead of constantly looking for ways we are different, isn't it better to start sharing how we are the same?
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:51 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SOme of the attitudes in this thread sum up everything I do not like about the dogmatic Left in this country...which, surprise, are the same things I do not like about the dogmatic Right.
In fact that people with differing political opinions seem to automatically hate each other is what could destroy democracy in this country.
Yea I mean there is no reasons people with different views on if black people should have equal rights can be friends. Just like there is no reason an nazi and a jew can not be friends. Really there is no reason to not be friends with someone who wants you to be stripped for rights and sent to camps.

That was the whole problem with the so called civil rights movements no willingness to compromise on their desire to have blacks have equal rights to real Americans.

How many of your friends want you specifically targeted and driven from society?
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:53 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Meanwhile, today the Supreme Court heard a case to determine whether gays can be protected from discrimination. Looks like they're leaning towards "no". It's 2019 and I can be fired for being gay.

Go ahead, tell me how both sides are full of good people.
Of course they can;t be protected, but just because they want you to lose your job and home is no reason to get all upset at someone.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:54 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
It doesn't bother me that people keep seeing Iraq when Bush is brought up.

He deserves it.
You make it sound like torture is a bad thing, torturing people is legal and always will be. Otherwise how could be lie and pretend that our military would care about illegal orders to violate the UCMJ? Clearly there is and never was any issues with torture.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:57 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The real problem is that although these polticians do a great deal of demonizing each other in public, they don't really believe a lot of the things they say. Major Democrats don't consider Bush a war criminal, just as major Republicans don't believe that Obama was an Alinsky plant. It's all a show for the gullible rubes on both sides who believe these nutty things.
Exactly torture was never illegal and even if it was following and issuing orders properly legally insulates you from all legal consequences.

There is no legal or moral obligation to refuse to torture or kill innocent people and any so called soldier who claims otherwise is simply lying to you.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:57 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yea I mean there is no reasons people with different views on if black people should have equal rights can be friends. Just like there is no reason an nazi and a jew can not be friends. Really there is no reason to not be friends with someone who wants you to be stripped for rights and sent to camps.
Or, to put it another way...

Originally Posted by Martin Luther King Jr.
First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:04 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
So how do you get someone to change their opinion if you don't engage with them? By finding common ground and becoming friends, I think it can only be good for the LGBTQ community if Ellen can start making GWB rethink his stance. Instead of constantly looking for ways we are different, isn't it better to start sharing how we are the same?
Hey why should he be upset that we want him sent to prison for his crimes? Shouldn't he not let such minor political disagreements get in the way of true friendship? He should be fine with people telling him he belongs in prison and in no way take such political statements personally.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:07 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Or, to put it another way...
Now imagine how much better he would be regarded if he had been willing to be good friends with George Wallace and be willing to put their political differences beside them?

I mean clearly fairly distant friends as they certainly couldn't be in the same box at sporting events with King being in the negro section, but still friends.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:07 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yea I mean there is no reasons people with different views on if black people should have equal rights can be friends. Just like there is no reason an nazi and a jew can not be friends. Really there is no reason to not be friends with someone who wants you to be stripped for rights and sent to camps.

That was the whole problem with the so called civil rights movements no willingness to compromise on their desire to have blacks have equal rights to real Americans.

How many of your friends want you specifically targeted and driven from society?
I'm just curious did neither of them bring up the elephant in the room? I mean, Ellen is a lesbian who is married, GWB was a politician who advocated preventing such civil rights for homosexuals as a matter of policy and law. I'm not even saying that they can't be friendly, but it seems odd to me that she wouldn't mention it.

Who knows how she feels about all the foreign policy blunders, that much easier to ignore for most people. But the anti-gay stuff hits her right where she lives.

Ellen has been vocal in shaming Indiana over its RFRA laws, but shaming GWB is apparently beyond the pale.

It's a strange world where calling someone a slur makes you a bigot, but trying to codify denial of civil rights into law is just politics and a difference of opinion.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:08 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
So how do you get someone to change their opinion if you don't engage with them? By finding common ground and becoming friends, I think it can only be good for the LGBTQ community if Ellen can start making GWB rethink his stance. Instead of constantly looking for ways we are different, isn't it better to start sharing how we are the same?
Are we sure President Bush wasn't trying to convince her to come over to his side?
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:10 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm just curious did neither of them bring up the elephant in the room? I mean, Ellen is a lesbian who is married, GWB was a politician who advocated preventing such civil rights for homosexuals as a matter of policy and law. I'm not even saying that they can't be friendly, but it seems odd to me that she wouldn't mention it.

Who knows how she feels about all the foreign policy blunders, that much easier to ignore for most people. But the anti-gay stuff hits her right where she lives.

Ellen has been vocal in shaming Indiana over its RFRA laws, but shaming GWB is apparently beyond the pale.
Look clearly the answer is that no one should ever be held accountable for their political views and actions, even by the victims of said views and actions. This is as wrong as Martin Luther King snubbing George Wallace as a friend. I mean sure they were on different sides of the segregation debate but that is no reason to let that get in the way of your friendship right?
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:13 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
So how do you get someone to change their opinion if you don't engage with them? By finding common ground and becoming friends, I think it can only be good for the LGBTQ community if Ellen can start making GWB rethink his stance. Instead of constantly looking for ways we are different, isn't it better to start sharing how we are the same?

First, it's not necessary to become friends with someone in order to engage with them. One can remain cordial with opponents and challenge their beliefs while still working to find and develop common ground. But to actually be friends with someone is to ignore or fail to challenge the problematic beliefs and behaviour.

Second, Ellen's comments were too cavalierly dismissive and unchallenging of GW's legislative record and beliefs with regard to LGBTQs, which I've found is something that is all too common for the privileged. There is a segment of the LGBTQ community which is perfectly happy to throw their peers under the bus in order to support their own classist, racist, or bigoted agendas. Lesbian TERFs, for example, making common cause with the Religious Right. Xenophobia, classism, and racism pretty well define the Log Cabin wing of the Republican party. It's a position of privilege.

At best, it's simple Tokenism to make common cause with those who refuse to acknowledge your humanity.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:13 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Or, to put it another way...
This isn't a race issue, it's a sexuality issue. Degeneres isn't a white moderate, she's a gay liberal. King's opinions about the race of his allies are irrelevant here.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:17 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This isn't a race issue, it's a sexuality issue. Degeneres isn't a white moderate, she's a gay liberal. King's opinions about the race of his allies are irrelevant here.
Yes but why is that any different? Radicals like king were clearly incapable of being friends with anyone with the slightest difference of opinion on their politics, so why does he get a pass on his political bigotry?
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:21 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
As someone who has repeatedly faced threats of violence and ostracism simply for being LGBTQ
You think Ellen hasn't?

Quote:
I am very comfortable telling someone to check their privilege for being friends with a person who encouraged and enforced marginalization and oppression of LGBTQ people.
Ellen wasn't always privileged, you know. Most of her life, she was a hard-working, middle-class, closeted homosexual. On that basis alone, I think she has at least as much standing as you do, to judge her relationship with George Bush. (And that's before we consider her standing by virtue of the fact that it's her relationship).

Instead of trying to dismiss her standing, maybe you should be thinking about how her experiences and choices might inform your own perspectives and prejudices on the subject.

I could go on, but the MA forbids us from engaging in debates about fellow members. So maybe it's best if we all agree not to give a **** about your personal history. Keep it to yourself, maybe?
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:22 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes but why is that any different? Radicals like king were clearly incapable of being friends with anyone with the slightest difference of opinion on their politics, so why does he get a pass on his political bigotry?
I'm sorry, because this really does look like a good faith attempt at discussion. But I can't quite put it together into a coherent remark that I can respond to. Even though I'd very much like to. Can you perhaps rephrase it?
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:25 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm with JoeMorgue on this one.
Yes, ignoring the concerns of persecuted minorities is definitely the way to go.

I can't think of a single problem that can't be solved by simply pretending it doesn't exist.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:30 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
First, it's not necessary to become friends with someone in order to engage with them. One can remain cordial with opponents and challenge their beliefs while still working to find and develop common ground. But to actually be friends with someone is to ignore or fail to challenge the problematic beliefs and behaviour.

Second, Ellen's comments were too cavalierly dismissive and unchallenging of GW's legislative record and beliefs with regard to LGBTQs, which I've found is something that is all too common for the privileged. There is a segment of the LGBTQ community which is perfectly happy to throw their peers under the bus in order to support their own classist, racist, or bigoted agendas. Lesbian TERFs, for example, making common cause with the Religious Right. Xenophobia, classism, and racism pretty well define the Log Cabin wing of the Republican party. It's a position of privilege.

At best, it's simple Tokenism to make common cause with those who refuse to acknowledge your humanity.
But maybe they started cordially and became friends. Since you do not know how they interact or what discussions they have had, kind of tough to make judgments. If we can never interact and learn something, makes it a lot harder to make progress.

Instead of complaining about her friendship, ask her how she is using it to help change things for the better in the LGBTQ community. Ask her how this can be used to change perceptions and keep the stupidity that is before the SC from happening.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:33 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sorry, because this really does look like a good faith attempt at discussion. But I can't quite put it together into a coherent remark that I can respond to. Even though I'd very much like to. Can you perhaps rephrase it?
What is different about it because it is sexuality instead of race? Being a jew is an OK reason not to be friends with a nazi but being gay isn't because the nazi gay victims were kept in concentration camps after WWII while the jews were released? So gays to take issue with nazi persecution are being disingenuous.

Why should someone be friends with an oppressor based on sexuality while race based persecution political differences are understandable reasons not to be friends with someone?
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:36 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
But maybe they started cordially and became friends. Since you do not know how they interact or what discussions they have had, kind of tough to make judgments. If we can never interact and learn something, makes it a lot harder to make progress.
And that does not require them to be friends. I get it you will not hold someones past, current and future attempts to destroy your life against them, and anyone who might is petty. Hence we know Dr King was a small petty man who could tolerate no differences of opinion on the role segregation had in society.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:37 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You think Ellen hasn't?



Ellen wasn't always privileged, you know. Most of her life, she was a hard-working, middle-class, closeted homosexual. On that basis alone, I think she has at least as much standing as you do, to judge her relationship with George Bush. (And that's before we consider her standing by virtue of the fact that it's her relationship).

Indeed. Having climbed the ladder Ellen surveys the view from the top and finds it lovely, and wonders what the people below are complaining about. Can't they see how great everything is now, for Ellen?


Quote:

Instead of trying to dismiss her standing, maybe you should be thinking about how her experiences and choices might inform your own perspectives and prejudices on the subject.

I could go on, but the MA forbids us from engaging in debates about fellow members. So maybe it's best if we all agree not to give a **** about your personal history. Keep it to yourself, maybe?
Agreed: all we have to do is become millionaires ourselves, then like Ellen our past problems are overcome. If I were a millionaire I could retire and not worry about whether gays can be fired from jobs for being gays. I could purchase a mansion and not worry about being evicted. I could float above it all on a cloud of privilege and wealth. All problems would be fixed, for me, and I'd be able to wonder what on earth everyone less fortunate was complaining about.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:41 AM   #116
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I haven't read the thread in it's entirety because I really can't be bothered.

I would like to say that I hope my life never gets to the point where I give a flying **** what celebrities\politicians spend time together. They shouldn't have to explain anything.

Perhaps it's the fact I'm an *******, but if I were in their shoes I'd simply say "don't worry about it". That's it.

I really don't understand why "it's none of your ******* business" isn't used more often.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:49 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I haven't read the thread in it's entirety because I really can't be bothered.

I would like to say that I hope my life never gets to the point where I give a flying **** what celebrities\politicians spend time together. They shouldn't have to explain anything.

Perhaps it's the fact I'm an *******, but if I were in their shoes I'd simply say "don't worry about it". That's it.

I really don't understand why "it's none of your ******* business" isn't used more often.
Prince Andrew agrees with you.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:55 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Prince Andrew agrees with you.
Neat...
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:59 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What is different about it because it is sexuality instead of race?
The difference is between being a white ally of black activists and being a black activist yourself.

In your analogy, Ellen Degeneres isn't the white moderate, she's the black activist.

On the flip side of your analogy, Ellen Degeneres isn't the straight moderate ally of gay activists. She's the gay activist. Maybe she's not doing a good job of being a gay activist, but if that's your argument, then you'll need to find an analogous quote from Dr King about his problems with black activists who don't do a good job.

ETA: I think your analogy perhaps ran aground on the idea that because Ellen is white, she must be analogous to the white person in King's remark.

Last edited by theprestige; 9th October 2019 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:02 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I haven't read the thread in it's entirety because I really can't be bothered.

I would like to say that I hope my life never gets to the point where I give a flying **** what celebrities\politicians spend time together. They shouldn't have to explain anything.

Perhaps it's the fact I'm an *******, but if I were in their shoes I'd simply say "don't worry about it". That's it.

I really don't understand why "it's none of your ******* business" isn't used more often.
This is a pretty good take. The fascination with the political and social opinions of rich celebrities has always struck me as obscene. Tabloid style fascination with their personal lives is bad enough, but when it bleeds through to start treating their political takes as especially insightful, it becomes absurd.

These rich celebrities may as well live on another planet, their lives are so far removed from that of ordinary people. Their perspective is tremendously skewed.

Ellen is daytime television. She dances and shows puff pieces. her trash takes on GWB are an idle curiosity, but not very instructive.
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