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Old 5th March 2019, 04:13 AM   #81
3point14
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Why are people so damn greedy? Can't we just make a thing, sell it, and that's it? Does every last possible hypothetical cent have to be screwed out of every last possible customer?
Yes, yes it does.

Look at banking, the sweetest gig ever - you get to borrow people's money at practically cost then loan that money out at a good interest rate, not only that, but you effectively get to loan out each pound taken in about seven times.

This is easy money. Did they leave it at that? Did they heck.
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Old 5th March 2019, 06:23 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
<snip>

And this creates a conundrum for me. I think this practice is dirty and self serving but how would we even codify any sort of "You can't make it harder people to work on your products" standard into law? I mean how would that even work?

Focusing in on this bit. I don't have a problem mfgs doing things like voiding warranties if the owner tries to fix or modify the item. I bought my first pre-built PC in over a decade (I normally piece together myself), and was surprised that there was some white caulk-looking substance on the screw holding the HDD cage in the case. Turned out that was a flag that if removed it voided warranty (supposedly according to one on-line article I read). So even though the machine had an open SATA connector, available power connector, and physical space to install another drive, undoing a screw to add one would (again, supposedly) void the warranty. As lame as that sounds I'm not going to rail against that. The ability to add another drive was not an advertised feature and didn't show up anywhere on the spec lists, so I wasn't being deprived of anything, and I used the machine long enough to make sure it wasn't DoA before adding the drive.

But it's a different story when devices are built to detect non-mfg branded replacement parts, especially when those parts are designed to be consumed during normal use. "Non-HP toner cartridge detected", etc. That's the sort of BS which I think should be made illegal. I'm not talking aftermarket add ons designed to change/improve performance. But simple, standard replacement parts and consumables. I'm not a lawmaker so I don't know how you'd actually write the law, but surely legal beagles out there who have experience in the field could come up with something that says "you can't disable or degrade performance solely on the basis of 3rd party repair/replacement/consumable parts which are not intended to alter original function or performance having been installed"?

Then again maybe there's a way to put a patent on your, say, power supply so that it has five pin connectors instead of four, and anyone trying to make a 3rd party replacement violates that patent.

Last edited by Joe Random; 5th March 2019 at 06:25 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 5th March 2019, 06:32 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
In other words l, Iím an informed customer. I rarely buy anything without understanding what it is Iím buying.
No, you are not. Because:

Quote:
I donít know any of those things. Iíve never seen a sticker like you describe. I just understand that if something goes wrong under warranty,I have to send it to Apple. Outside of warranty? Donít know...Iíve never dealt with that situation.
Well, if you don't open your system, then odds are, you've not seen them. But, if you have the unmitigated gall to, say, want more memory at competitive prices and figure you can just add it to your system, you will see them.

As far as work outside of warranty, which is a main point of the right to repair,
why haven't you looked into it? Apple isn't going to warranty it forever, and if you plan to use the device until it's no longer viable, what are your plans to fix it? Once Apple declares the device to be "vintage" your ability to repair it are all but done. Apple won't do the work at all. And forget about an authorized 3rd party having spare parts around to repair it, Apple doesn't allow that.
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Old 5th March 2019, 08:01 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
why haven't you looked into it? Apple isn't going to warranty it forever, and if you plan to use the device until it's no longer viable, what are your plans to fix it? Once Apple declares the device to be "vintage" your ability to repair it are all but done. Apple won't do the work at all. And forget about an authorized 3rd party having spare parts around to repair it, Apple doesn't allow that.
Good reasons not to use apple in industry, equipment life is important, I had to use a windows 98 laptop last week for example. Apple would make a 20 year old computer self destruct.
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Old 5th March 2019, 09:05 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Why are people so damn greedy? Can't we just make a thing, sell it, and that's it? Does every last possible hypothetical cent have to be screwed out of every last possible customer?
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Old 5th March 2019, 11:47 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Why are people so damn greedy? Can't we just make a thing, sell it, and that's it? Does every last possible hypothetical cent have to be screwed out of every last possible customer?
Because, "The x million peope addicted to apple products are all going to have to buy new chargers, at £25.00 a pop, when we change the standard next year" looks really really good on profit forecasts?
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Old 5th March 2019, 04:52 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
No, you are not. Because:







Well, if you don't open your system, then odds are, you've not seen them. But, if you have the unmitigated gall to, say, want more memory at competitive prices and figure you can just add it to your system, you will see them.
Thatís why Iím an informed consumer. I already know that I canít open my Mac and expect Apple to honor my warranty. I donít buy a Mac to tinker with them. I have never opened any of my Macs.



Quote:
As far as work outside of warranty, which is a main point of the right to repair,

why haven't you looked into it? Apple isn't going to warranty it forever, and if you plan to use the device until it's no longer viable, what are your plans to fix it? Once Apple declares the device to be "vintage" your ability to repair it are all but done. Apple won't do the work at all. And forget about an authorized 3rd party having spare parts around to repair it, Apple doesn't allow that.
Again, this is something I understand when I buy Apple. When they donít work anymore I buy another. If I wanted to buy something that I could fix, I would not buy Apple.

And I think you are fundamentally wrong about something. There are third party glass replacements, for example. I could open my Mac and pop in some Crucial memory or a bigger hard drive if I wanted to. Sure, Apple will void my warranty but it exists if I wanted to do it. I have an old iMac that is out of warranty now. Iíve been thinking about adding memory and upgrading the hard drive and guess what? The parts exist -not ďauthorizedĒ but they work- and it would be relatively easy to do. But I did not buy the thing with that expectation. In fact, it still works fine I just canít upgrade it to the latest OS.

Is it Appleís fault if people buy their product and arenít as informed as I am? I donít think so. Caveat emptor and all that.






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Old 5th March 2019, 04:56 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Good reasons not to use apple in industry, equipment life is important, I had to use a windows 98 laptop last week for example. Apple would make a 20 year old computer self destruct.
We canít use windows 98 in the medical industry because MS doesnít support security updates anymore. Soon, we will have to upgrade our Windows 7 machines. Obsolescence is a thing for every piece of tech. I have an old EKG machine that canít be repaired anymore. The expectation that you should be able to maintain a piece of tech for 20 or more years is a little ridiculous.


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Old 5th March 2019, 05:15 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Again, this is something I understand when I buy Apple. When they donít work anymore I buy another. If I wanted to buy something that I could fix, I would not buy Apple.
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The expectation that you should be able to maintain a piece of tech for 20 or more years is a little ridiculous.

Late-state consumerist capitalism in a nutshell, folks. Guess you should all get rid of your pre-2000 automobiles, since it's "a little ridiculous" that you're not driving brand new cars right now, those cars shouldn't be expected to still function, after all. And don't forget to throw away all your old toasters and refrigerators as well.

And if you're too poor to keep up with the latest and greatest, well, you don't matter.
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Old 5th March 2019, 07:27 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Late-state consumerist capitalism in a nutshell, folks. Guess you should all get rid of your pre-2000 automobiles, since it's "a little ridiculous" that you're not driving brand new cars right now, those cars shouldn't be expected to still function, after all. And don't forget to throw away all your old toasters and refrigerators as well.



And if you're too poor to keep up with the latest and greatest, well, you don't matter.

Lol. I guess thatís one way to interpret it.

Itís ridiculous for a business to expect to be able to use a piece of tech for 20 years, for the most part. Especially computers but even cars and other equipment where safety, security and accuracy are important. Thatís the context of my comment.

No one said get rid of anything. In fact I think, if you want something that you can tinker with, buy something older. However you spend your dollars will send a message to the market. If people stop buying the new locked-in stuff, manufacturers will have to take heed.

All Iím saying is that the message consumers are sending to the market right now is: ďWe are A-ok with the products we canít fix ourselves.Ē How else could Apple become one of the biggest companies in the world.


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Old 5th March 2019, 07:32 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Late-state consumerist capitalism in a nutshell, folks. Guess you should all get rid of your pre-2000 automobiles, since it's "a little ridiculous" that you're not driving brand new cars right now, those cars shouldn't be expected to still function, after all. And don't forget to throw away all your old toasters and refrigerators as well.

And if you're too poor to keep up with the latest and greatest, well, you don't matter.
Things become obsolete. Just a face of life.
Seems like you want a society where everything is kept in a state of statis. Good luck with that.
And comparing toasters and refrighirators with computer software is pretty silly anyway.
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Old 5th March 2019, 09:52 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Late-state consumerist capitalism in a nutshell, folks.
Marx assumed for himself an air of scientific authority by claiming to predict how society would inevitably evolve. His predictions utterly failed, but that didn't appear to disabuse his adherents of their belief in him.

The term "late-stage capitalism" assumes a similar mantle of prophetic power. But as with Marx, there is no reason to think that such predictions will have any connection to actual events.

Quote:
And if you're too poor to keep up with the latest and greatest, well, you don't matter.
If you're too poor to keep up with the latest and greatest, wait a few years and you can get the same or better for cheap. That's actually a pretty good deal.
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Old 5th March 2019, 09:54 PM   #93
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"Late stage" doesn't say anything about when "final stage" will be.
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Old 5th March 2019, 09:59 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
What is the make and model of the camera and the part number on the battery?
Camera's long buried in the boxes of dead devices.

What did you have in mind as far as finding a battery?
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Old 5th March 2019, 10:01 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Do you think it would be profitable for them to continue to make the parts?

Keeping machines that take up space, require maintenence, safety inspections and staff is kind of expensive for the tiny minority of people who take pride in keeping technology long past its best before date.

Or to put it another way.

Would you pay the cost of a new device for these parts? If not, it is not an issue of wanting the device, but wanting the company to dance to your tune. And in that case I do not believe they could take enough actions to please you regardless so the cheapest option for them is to not bother.
I think a dryer switch that lasted 30 years has very little reason for a new design.

These guys have business models based on built-in obsolescence. Good for them, bad for the planet.
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Old 5th March 2019, 10:07 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I can't believe we are arguing about the right to have laws to make sure anything we buy will work forever..

Horse and buggy whip owners are turning over in their graves.. (from laughter...)
Straw man much?

The government, aka the citizens, has an interest in conserving resources when greed is interested in not giving a **** about the planet.

Tragedy of the commons.
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Old 5th March 2019, 10:14 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
What's the part?

We don't use hot water in the washer because that input switch valve doesn't open anymore. I should probably put in a hose splitter valve. Reversed so hot, cold or both can go to the one working input when wanted.

https://www.amazon.com/Morvat-Heavy-...gateway&sr=8-5
It's in the starter chain, the relay switch.

I'm going to call in a repairperson and see if they have a work-around solution.
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Old 5th March 2019, 10:20 PM   #98
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[quote=Ziggurat;12623198]

If you're too poor to keep up with the latest and greatest, wait a few years and you can get the same or better for cheap. That's actually a pretty good deal

It's a great idea. I buy older top line phones and use them where I used to recycle and repair old desktop units. Right now on an old Sony Ericsson with Andy 2,3,4 purchased for a song.
Add a backup battery and if power goes out I am still online at full speed.
An older Samsung tablet and Andy 5 phone back up if WiFi or current software is required.

In fact power went out for a storm an hour ago and no loss for me.

The kids use old whatnot brand phones I pick up for ten bucks each as tablets to play their games. They get beat up or fail in a year it was well worth the price.

My wife gets new near top line phones and computers every five years or so and squeezes the last bit of useful from them before repeating the process.

Not because we are poor, we put the money in stuff that lasts instead of the new IPhone versionevery year or so. Toys we can safely skimp on a bit.
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Old 5th March 2019, 10:39 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Look, if you donít like the fact that you canít repair something you buy yourself, donít buy that something. If Appleís, for example, policy of non-3rd-party-repair was truly a problem, then they would not sell many phones.

If we consumers truly wanted something that we could fix ourselves, then the market would reflect that. We donít have to buy things we donít want. We could force the manufacturers to give us what we want by voting with our dollars.

Want a tractor you can fix yourself? Cool, buy a brand that allows it and donít buy the brand that restricts you. If all manufacturers are switching to the no-fix policy, then that tells you something about the market -namely that the market wants things you canít fix yourself.

We just need to be smarter, more informed consumers, buy what we actually want and not just buy something because itís the latest and greatest without understanding exactly what we are buying....
Not that simple when every one of the things you want, like a digital camera or a printer, ora car, all have the same business model.
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Old 5th March 2019, 10:45 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
...

Of course you are happy to have the manufacturer be able to decide that your purchase will automatically stop working after 5 years and so you need to buy a new one or take it to them and pay them to fix the planned obsolescence.

Face it owning the stuff you buy is such an outdated concept.
I had a TV with a picture in a picture feature, my TV, I owned it. Had the same cable, it worked fine. Then the cable company mandated switched equipment and it overrode the feature. My TV with a feature I paid for was essentially confiscated by the cable company.

The books you put on your Amazon Kindle are only loaned to you. Amazon can wipe your device clean if it wants to.
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Old 5th March 2019, 10:59 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
"Late stage" doesn't say anything about when "final stage" will be.
But you have to know itís near the final stage. But that isnít close to certain.
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Old 5th March 2019, 11:01 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
But you have to know itís near the final stage. But that isnít close to certain.
We are at the stage where we know it's not sustainable for very much longer.
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Old 6th March 2019, 05:52 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
We are at the stage where we know it's not sustainable for very much longer.
What exactly is ďitĒ in this statement? Consumption rates of certain resources? Sure. Thatís happened before. We had to ween ourselves off whale oil, for example. Capitalism? No, we do not know that at all.
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Old 6th March 2019, 06:28 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If you're too poor to keep up with the latest and greatest, wait a few years and you can get the same or better for cheap. That's actually a pretty good deal.

Except, of course, you can't, because no one will support it anymore, and you can't expect it to last more than a few years at most, and you're not allowed to repair it.

Meanwhile, the landfills are filling up with consumerist trash that otherwise should have been perfectly good and useful if we were allowed to repair it, and reclamation/recycling efforts are poisoning huge tracts of Africa and China.

As well as being an economic boondoggle, our disposable culture is an ecological nightmare.
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Old 6th March 2019, 06:40 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What exactly is ďitĒ in this statement? Consumption rates of certain resources? Sure. Thatís happened before. We had to ween ourselves off whale oil, for example. Capitalism? No, we do not know that at all.

Actually, we do. We can see numerous examples of civilizations in the past that destroyed themselves through over-exploitation of resources and destroying their local environment; and we're on track for the same thing.

Consumerist culture is responsible for the exploitation of native peoples around the world, wholesale destruction of local ecosystem to feed the increasing demands for resources, and its dependence on cheap sources of energy and raw materials is one of the biggest drivers of climate change. Not to mention the pollution resulting from nearly every step of the process. Landfills leeching toxic chemicals and heavy metals into the air and water and ground, reclamation efforts that ramp that up several orders of magnitude. Factory farming destroying the land, factory fishing which has depleted numerous fish species, reducing large species by 80% and driving many to near-extinction, and filled the seas with toxic and dangerous plastics that are slowly destroying what's left of sea life.

Not all of that is the result of Capitalism per se, but the vast majority is a result of consumerism and the throw-away culture promulgated by consumerist capitalist countries like the US, who is the biggest offender.

We're staring the "end stage" of runaway global warming, oceanic bio-collapse, and mass extinction in the face right now, and not enough of the nations and communities responsible for it are willing to do enough to stop it.
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Old 6th March 2019, 07:20 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Thatís why Iím an informed consumer. I already know that I canít open my Mac and expect Apple to honor my warranty. I donít buy a Mac to tinker with them. I have never opened any of my Macs.
You do know that what you "know" is just wrong? Opening a Mac does not void the warranty. You are misinformed. Probably because you've been lied to. The MagnusonĖMoss Warranty Act strictly forbids such behavior.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blog...ord-warranties

Just because you choose not to do something, doesn't mean the right to do that activity doesn't exist.

Open your Mac, if only to dust it out. You won't damage it, and it doesn't void the warranty.
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Old 6th March 2019, 10:37 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Actually, we do. We can see numerous examples of civilizations in the past that destroyed themselves through over-exploitation of resources and destroying their local environment; and we're on track for the same thing.

Consumerist culture is responsible for the exploitation of native peoples around the world, wholesale destruction of local ecosystem to feed the increasing demands for resources, and its dependence on cheap sources of energy and raw materials is one of the biggest drivers of climate change. Not to mention the pollution resulting from nearly every step of the process. Landfills leeching toxic chemicals and heavy metals into the air and water and ground, reclamation efforts that ramp that up several orders of magnitude. Factory farming destroying the land, factory fishing which has depleted numerous fish species, reducing large species by 80% and driving many to near-extinction, and filled the seas with toxic and dangerous plastics that are slowly destroying what's left of sea life.

Not all of that is the result of Capitalism per se, but the vast majority is a result of consumerism and the throw-away culture promulgated by consumerist capitalist countries like the US, who is the biggest offender.

We're staring the "end stage" of runaway global warming, oceanic bio-collapse, and mass extinction in the face right now, and not enough of the nations and communities responsible for it are willing to do enough to stop it.
We're not a capitalist society anymore. We are a corporatist one. We are kowtowing to large global corporations in the hopes that they may bestow upon us the gift of jobs. Look at Amazon and New York City. They basically put themselves up for bid, whomever gives us the best breaks will get some jobs. But **** that start up down the street that has to pay all of their taxes.

We've really become a bizarre and twisted society, where John Deere can sue you for working on your own property... because they've copyrighted a tractor.

https://www.wired.com/story/john-dee...ght-to-repair/
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Old 6th March 2019, 11:51 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Actually, we do. We can see numerous examples of civilizations in the past that destroyed themselves through over-exploitation of resources and destroying their local environment; and we're on track for the same thing.
Numerous pre-industrial non-capitalist civilizations.

And in case you weren't aware, capitalist countries have far, far better track records with protecting the environment than any of their competitors. Have you seen what China and Russia have done?

Quote:
We're staring the "end stage" of runaway global warming, oceanic bio-collapse, and mass extinction in the face right now, and not enough of the nations and communities responsible for it are willing to do enough to stop it.
Now you're arguing for late-stage civilization, not late-stage capitalism.
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Old 6th March 2019, 11:56 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Actually, we do. We can see numerous examples of civilizations in the past that destroyed themselves through over-exploitation of resources and destroying their local environment; and we're on track for the same thing.

Consumerist culture is responsible for the exploitation of native peoples around the world, wholesale destruction of local ecosystem to feed the increasing demands for resources, and its dependence on cheap sources of energy and raw materials is one of the biggest drivers of climate change. Not to mention the pollution resulting from nearly every step of the process. Landfills leeching toxic chemicals and heavy metals into the air and water and ground, reclamation efforts that ramp that up several orders of magnitude. Factory farming destroying the land, factory fishing which has depleted numerous fish species, reducing large species by 80% and driving many to near-extinction, and filled the seas with toxic and dangerous plastics that are slowly destroying what's left of sea life.

Not all of that is the result of Capitalism per se, but the vast majority is a result of consumerism and the throw-away culture promulgated by consumerist capitalist countries like the US, who is the biggest offender.

We're staring the "end stage" of runaway global warming, oceanic bio-collapse, and mass extinction in the face right now, and not enough of the nations and communities responsible for it are willing to do enough to stop it.
And what do you propose to do about it?
It is easy to spout anti capitalistic rhetoric, harder to come up with a viable replacement.
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Old 6th March 2019, 11:58 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Except, of course, you can't, because no one will support it anymore
You don't buy a first gen iphone now because you couldn't afford it when it came out, you buy a low end android phone which is better than the original iphone, and it is supported.

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and you can't expect it to last more than a few years at most
That's the nature of the product. Making cell phones serviceable like cars would also make them more expensive, and at the current pace of development, it's not really worth it for most consumers or manufacturers. That will likely change over time as the technology matures and innovation rate starts to level off.

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and you're not allowed to repair it.
And I'm in favor of changing that, in case you weren't paying attention. But the fact that the newest gadgets are too expensive for the poor isn't the problem.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:04 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And what do you propose to do about it?

What I'm already doing, and what many others are doing, voting for people who will make the sorts of changes needed; and engaging in activism advocating for those changes.

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It is easy to spout anti capitalistic rhetoric, harder to come up with a viable replacement.

Funny how that only applies to the US. Good old American exceptionalism, again. Except given how detrimental corporatist capitalism is to the nation and the world, "exceptionalism" isn't really the right word, is it? Perhaps "Good old American flaming stupidity and insane short-sightedness," would be more apropos.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:05 PM   #112
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I also detect a good deal of good old fashioned Ludditism here.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:08 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
We canít use windows 98 in the medical industry because MS doesnít support security updates anymore. Soon, we will have to upgrade our Windows 7 machines. Obsolescence is a thing for every piece of tech. I have an old EKG machine that canít be repaired anymore. The expectation that you should be able to maintain a piece of tech for 20 or more years is a little ridiculous.
Welcome to manufacturing. I can still buy new PLC's that are the same as units purchased 20 years ago. Telling someone they have to replace their entire process every 10 years is not going to fly in a lot of industries.

Hell about 10 years ago we had pieces of equipment bought used in the 50's finally stop being supported by their manufacturer.

I know PLC companies that will let you know years ahead of time before a product is going to be discontinued and they will support it with repairs for another 5-10 years after that.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:12 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I also detect a good deal of good old fashioned Ludditism here.

Perhaps you should read the actual words posted here then, and stop fantasizing about straw men, so you'll have something worthwhile to contribute to the discussion.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:20 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Welcome to manufacturing. I can still buy new PLC's that are the same as units purchased 20 years ago. Telling someone they have to replace their entire process every 10 years is not going to fly in a lot of industries.

And all of these people arguing in favour of planned obsolescence and fantasizing about armies of luddites sweeping over the horizon are very likely listening to music made on instruments whose technology has been effectively unchanged for hundreds of years, eating food made on kitchen appliances utilizing a level of technology that is older than they are, reading books whose technological progress halted a millennium-and-a-half in the past, and driving cars which despite minor engineering refinements are still based on a technology developed generations in the past. Oh, and some of them still possess tools and utensils whose basic form and function have remained effectively unchanged since before recorded human history.

But it's still unreasonable to assume a phone could last more than a few years; because the way that people talk to each other has changed so much in that time that those three-year-old phones simply can't handle the conversation anymore.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:22 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Perhaps you should read the actual words posted here then, and stop fantasizing about straw men, so you'll have something worthwhile to contribute to the discussion.
And if you stop just mouthing College Bull Session Trendy Marxism you have something worthwhile to contribute.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:25 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
And all of these people arguing in favour of planned obsolescence
Nobody here has argued in favor of it. We just don't all see it as the problem that you see it as.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:39 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Nobody here has argued in favor of it. We just don't all see it as the problem that you see it as.
Yea why is anyone care about such obsolete tech like air traffic controls! That is dead and no one should care.

Throw it all out and ignore it.

https://www.wired.com/2015/02/air-traffic-control/

"At any given time, around 7,000 aircraft are flying over the United States. For the past 40 years, the same computer system has controlled all that high-altitude trafficóa relic of the 1970s known as Host. The core system predates the advent of the Global Positioning System, so Host uses point-to-point, ground-based radar. Every day, thousands of travelers switch their GPS-enabled smartphones to airplane mode while their flights are guided by technology that predates the Speak & Spell. If you're reading this at 30,000 feet, relaxóHost is still safe, in terms of getting planes from point A to point B. But it's unbelievably inefficient. It can handle a limited amount of traffic, and controllers can't see anything outside of their own airspaceówhen they hand off a plane to a contiguous airspace, it vanishes from their radar."

Clearly we need to totally rebuild all infrastructure every 4 years or so.
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Old 6th March 2019, 12:44 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yea why is anyone care about such obsolete tech like air traffic controls! That is dead and no one should care.
Your posts have no connection to anything that anyone is actually saying.
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Old 6th March 2019, 01:09 PM   #120
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Part of the problem with losing the right to repair also shows up in the Internet of Things technology. What do you do when you've built your "Smart Home" and then the company drops that standard and adopts a new one that's not compatible? Or even worse, just goes bankrupt. On a smaller scale, and recently happened, what if their servers crash and suddenly your lights don't work.

Do you really want to have to replace your kitchen appliances, lights, thermostat, toaster and security systems every time a company changes direction, gets bought out, or dies entirely? Because without Right to Repair, nobody would be allowed to support that older technology or fix it, and the company could simply brick all the smart features, or the entire appliance, depending on how it was built.

I'm a technophile, but I'm also a little cautious after many years of learning skills that promptly became useless (hey, I can do computer typesetting with paper tape machines, which was useful for about 3 years before it was made obsolete) and going through generations of tech devices.

If you want to have to send your phone to Apple every time it needs a minor repair, that's your business. If you want to use the IoT as an excuse to remodel your house regularly, that's nice. But a lot of us don't want to do that. We want things that can be repaired locally and supported as long as they can function. To do otherwise is hugely wasteful of time, money and resources. I don't think that makes me a Luddite.
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