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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 1st February 2019, 02:56 PM   #561
theprestige
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It's not me who has made up a whole scenario about a scooter.
That one did go quite a bit off the rails. I'm not sure what Drewbot was thinking, but I'm content to leave him to it.

Quote:
It's not me who has invented a self-inflicted broken rib, and a diving-onto-a-kerb to inflict it.
It looks like the broken rib has quietly dropped out of the narrative, so this is probably a moot point we don't need to concern ourselves with anymore.

Anymore with which we don't need to concern ourselves.

Quote:
It's not me who has dreamt up a tinder-gone-wrong scenario. It's not me who has decided this is a publicity stunt. I am not the fantasist here.
You complain about fantasy, but don't even mention the unicorn hypothesis! Up your game, MikeG.

Anyway, it's okay to speculate about alternative hypotheses. And human beings are in fact known for (a) concocting implausible stories to cover up embarrassing stories (and having this strategy backfire), and (b) doing absurdly stupid things as publicity stunts. Neither of these possibilities seems substantially more fantastical than MAGA-country noose-ninjas prowling the streets looking for actors from their favorite hip-hop soap opera.

But this is also kind of moot, since alternative hypotheses aren't necessary to conclude that Smollett's own hypothesis hasn't yet met its burden of proof.

Quote:
You people without a shred of evidence have assumed that it is impossible he could be telling the truth, and in flapping about in a critical-thinking void, in some sort of fantasists' feeding frenzy, you are painting a really ugly picture of your corner of American society. Really, really ugly.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you should consider finding a better class of Internet community, to share your wise and civil thoughts with.

With which to share your thoughts.
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Old 1st February 2019, 02:56 PM   #562
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Chicago's Superintendent said that they were making "progress" on the alleged hate crime hoax.

Ask him how progress is doing on the unsolved murder crisis! Just kidding, those people were not famous like the minor character on "empire."
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Old 1st February 2019, 03:19 PM   #563
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
MAGA-country noose-ninjas prowling the streets
This is one of the main reasons I'm skeptical about the story. As with many fake hate crimes, the details of the incident seem almost a little too perfectly designed to appeal those with certain type of progressive mindset. That, and the complete lack of any corroborating evidence.
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Old 1st February 2019, 03:24 PM   #564
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
my post clearly speaks for itself.
You told me to look at the title and then talked about a lot of things not in the title.
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Old 1st February 2019, 03:30 PM   #565
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
This is one of the main reasons I'm skeptical about the story. As with many fake hate crimes, the details of the incident seem almost a little too perfectly designed to appeal those with certain type of progressive mindset.
Well, but so does an armed white man walking into a grocery store, deliberately seeking out black people to shoot, and then later appealing for an armed citizen not to shoot him because "whites don't shoot whites". It sounds like something that a fictional caricature of a "white conservative male" made up for a liberal-aimed television show would do; and it is also something that actually happened.
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Old 1st February 2019, 03:34 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You told me to look at the title and then talked about a lot of things not in the title.
Ah the old confusion regarding the Imperative Tense!

Perhaps you will wish to "look" again at what I actually wrote.
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Old 1st February 2019, 03:36 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Well, but so does an armed white man walking into a grocery store, deliberately seeking out black people to shoot, and then later appealing for an armed citizen not to shoot him because "whites don't shoot whites". It sounds like something that a fictional caricature of a "white conservative male" made up for a liberal-aimed television show would do; and it is also something that actually happened.
Actually, that one seemed entirely plausible to me.

And if CPD were to announce that they'd arrested a couple of white guys who were running around downtown shouting "this is MAGA country!" and throwing nooses on people, I'd think that was plausible, too. Assuming they had actual dudes in custody, and independent corroboration of what these dudes were doing.

What's not so plausible is that they're doing it in freezing weather at 2 in the morning, without any corroboration at all, and without any of their supposed victims ever calling the police about it.

The objection is not "this kind of attack couldn't possibly happen", but rather "this particular attack is implausible as currently described". It's not the MAGA-country noose-ninjas in isolation. It's the MCNNs in combination with the rest of the information we have about this particular attack.

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Old 1st February 2019, 03:39 PM   #568
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#ChicagoPolice source tells @fox32news that #JussieSmollett was seen on surveillance still holding his #Subway sandwich when he returned to the building after the alleged attack.

I guess he beat them off with his foot long club!

Can a brother get a laughing dog?
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Old 1st February 2019, 03:42 PM   #569
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They didn't take his phone. They didn't take his sandwich. They didn't even break his rib. What kind of amateur-hour hate crime was this? It's barely a mild-dislike-crime.
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Old 1st February 2019, 04:41 PM   #570
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That’s another thing that doesn’t add up -

All those wonderful Chicago beef sandwich joints and he’s gonna get ******* Subway - at 2 in the freakin AM on a Sunday?
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Old 1st February 2019, 04:46 PM   #571
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I expect none of the wonderful beef sandwich joints are open at 2AM on Sunday...

Besides, it might be incredibly overstated. I've tried both a "Chicago hot dog" and Chicago-style pizza, while in Chicago. The first just tasted like a hot dog with a bunch of extra stuff on it that I don't usually put on hot dogs but was otherwise unremarkable; the second wasn't actually pizza, but some kind of spicy tomato-and-cheese quiche or something. I didn't understand the hype over either.
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Old 1st February 2019, 04:50 PM   #572
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I expect none of the wonderful beef sandwich joints are open at 2AM on Sunday...
Yes, I kid, I kid.
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Old 1st February 2019, 05:26 PM   #573
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I expect none of the wonderful beef sandwich joints are open at 2AM on Sunday...

Besides, it might be incredibly overstated. I've tried both a "Chicago hot dog" and Chicago-style pizza, while in Chicago. The first just tasted like a hot dog with a bunch of extra stuff on it that I don't usually put on hot dogs but was otherwise unremarkable; the second wasn't actually pizza, but some kind of spicy tomato-and-cheese quiche or something. I didn't understand the hype over either.
I was pretty surprised to hear that the Subway was open then, actually.

Only 24 hour Subway I've ever encountered was on my military base when I was still in.
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Old 1st February 2019, 05:41 PM   #574
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He said he fought back.

I guess he remembered to pick his sub sandwich and phone up after the attack?
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Old 1st February 2019, 05:50 PM   #575
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
He said he fought back.

I guess he remembered to pick his sub sandwich and phone up after the attack?
He went out in sub-zero temperatures at 2AM to get that sandwich. You better believe he was not going to abandon it for anything.
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Old 1st February 2019, 05:56 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
He said he fought back.

I guess he remembered to pick his sub sandwich and phone up after the attack?
I have a hard time seeing the argument that's an issue. Are people who are actually attacked supposed to leave all their stuff on the street?
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Old 1st February 2019, 05:56 PM   #577
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Sandwich grifter
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Old 1st February 2019, 06:17 PM   #578
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I have a hard time seeing the argument that's an issue. Are people who are actually attacked supposed to leave all their stuff on the street?
Me too.

Is it significant?

Whoever leaked the info probably thinks it is.

We heard for days about the video of him entering the building, and the visible noose, but nothing about him still having his sandwich.

Why leak that now?

When I think "brutal attack" by two on one, I think phone and sandwich would probably go flying off somewhere.
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Old 1st February 2019, 06:24 PM   #579
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I have a hard time seeing the argument that's an issue. Are people who are actually attacked supposed to leave all their stuff on the street?
Leave the "noose" take the cannolli **** sandwich from subway
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Old 1st February 2019, 06:27 PM   #580
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Sandwich grifter
grift currency in that case - condiments.
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Old 1st February 2019, 06:30 PM   #581
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A frozen sub sandwich would make a nice one shot club.
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Old 1st February 2019, 06:41 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Well, but so does an armed white man walking into a grocery store, deliberately seeking out black people to shoot, and then later appealing for an armed citizen not to shoot him because "whites don't shoot whites". It sounds like something that a fictional caricature of a "white conservative male" made up for a liberal-aimed television show would do; and it is also something that actually happened.
Again, as Tyr said, 2017 saw white nationalists, KKKers, and Nazi wannabes, dressed like Dolt 45, converge on a college town, hold a torchlit rally, attack a synagogue, chant Nazi slogans, and spew slurs at counterprotestors and passers-by. And then Dolt 45 came out and said that there were some good people in that group. I was expecting to see a lot of bigoted crap when Dolt 45 was elected but even I didn't see that one coming.
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Old 1st February 2019, 07:10 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Again, as Tyr said, 2017 saw white nationalists, KKKers, and Nazi wannabes, dressed like Dolt 45, converge on a college town, hold a torchlit rally, attack a synagogue, chant Nazi slogans, and spew slurs at counterprotestors and passers-by. And then Dolt 45 came out and said that there were some good people in that group. I was expecting to see a lot of bigoted crap when Dolt 45 was elected but even I didn't see that one coming.
Mmmm, type Dolt 45 again.

Say, Mumbles, you think all those things encouraged this phony ************ to come out and lie so ridiculously?
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:07 PM   #584
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Haven’t been keeping up on the news lately but my wife was telling me about this. My immediate reaction was “you’ve got to be kidding. That sounds made up” and she rolled her eyes at me (not uncommon). But skimming through this thread, wow, some of you guys actually believe this went down like this? I would believe it with the right evidence of course, but come on... a couple of Trump supporters rolling around at 2 am with a noose and some bleach and they happen into an actor they both happen to want to assault and know enough about him to know he’s gay and insult him to that effect? And then they just let him go with his sandwich and a rope around his neck?

I’m not saying it’s impossible, but this smells pretty bad.
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:37 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Haven’t been keeping up on the news lately but my wife was telling me about this. My immediate reaction was “you’ve got to be kidding. That sounds made up” and she rolled her eyes at me (not uncommon). But skimming through this thread, wow, some of you guys actually believe this went down like this? I would believe it with the right evidence of course, but come on... a couple of Trump supporters rolling around at 2 am with a noose and some bleach and they happen into an actor they both happen to want to assault and know enough about him to know he’s gay and insult him to that effect? And then they just let him go with his sandwich and a rope around his neck?

I’m not saying it’s impossible, but this smells pretty bad.
No, I would expect it to have been a planned attack, like many attacks on celebrities are. But as others have noted, most of the doubters here have managed to come up with absolutely absurd scenarios for why it didn't happen, so I'm mostly laughing at them while the police investigate.
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:42 PM   #586
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
No, I would expect it to have been a planned attack, like many attacks on celebrities are. But as others have noted, most of the doubters here have managed to come up with absolutely absurd scenarios for why it didn't happen, so I'm mostly laughing at them while the police investigate.
What kind of plan could they possibly have had?
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:46 PM   #587
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
When I think "brutal attack" by two on one, I think phone and sandwich would probably go flying off somewhere.
Especially taking into account he was on the phone with his manager when the attack happened. So he's outside in this horrible weather, talking on the phone (presumably with gloves on?), when these guys start yelling MAGA stuff at him so they can be heard over the phone. And then they attack him and he decides to and has time to put his phone in his pocket? Otherwise, it seems it would almost certainly end up with a broken phone.
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Old 1st February 2019, 08:54 PM   #588
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What kind of plan could they possibly have had?
To have completely evaded all surveillance, both coming and going, in an overtly surveilled area?
Something on the order of a Bond villain would be required to pull it off.
MAGA chanting, bleach wielding, noose tossing, homophobic, TV soap watching, ninja bigfoot supervillains.
What chance do the bumbling CPD have against such evil forces?
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Old 1st February 2019, 09:46 PM   #589
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horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett

Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
That’s another thing that doesn’t add up -



All those wonderful Chicago beef sandwich joints and he’s gonna get ******* Subway - at 2 in the freakin AM on a Sunday?


It was a Monday. Al’s Beef was closed but a cold half mile walk could have got him Mr. Q’s.

Last edited by carlitos; 1st February 2019 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 1st February 2019, 09:49 PM   #590
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horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Especially taking into account he was on the phone with his manager when the attack happened. So he's outside in this horrible weather, talking on the phone (presumably with gloves on?), when these guys start yelling MAGA stuff at him so they can be heard over the phone. And then they attack him and he decides to and has time to put his phone in his pocket? Otherwise, it seems it would almost certainly end up with a broken phone.


The kids these days use Bluetooth earbuds or those apple thingies. Phone remains safely in pocket. Come on.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:06 PM   #591
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The kids these days use Bluetooth earbuds or those apple thingies. Phone remains safely in pocket. Come on.
You're absolutely right. Scratch that.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:07 PM   #592
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None of the scenarios I can come up with make any sense to me.

For all the reasons others have posted, the idea that he is telling the truth is at best suspect. It could be. It has been said that there are some homeless dudes around. Imagine (it's not much of a stretch) that a couple of them are racists. They learn that the guy they see sometimes is an uppity ****** queer guy. (Counting on autocensor) They decide to beat him up and show him who's boss. That isn't too much of a stretch. But in the middle of a very cold night, and they just happen to conduct the attack in an area that isn't covered by cameras? And the sandwich....? Seems weird.


But.....it's fake? What? A publicity stunt? That seems weird.



I keep trying to come up with something that happened, and he needed a cover story. In the middle of some kinky sex game, and requires medical attention, so they make up a story about MAGA hat wearers? Unless the kinky sex games required a sandwich, it doesn't seem good, and although he was treated, it doesn't sound like his wounds were all that sever that he absolutely had to go to the hospital.


I even wondered if maybe a suicide attempt. But.....sandwich?


No. I can't come up with anything. Nothing fits. What's the frequency, Kenneth? By default, I'll assume he's telling the truth, and figure that there are professonals following up on this to reveal what really happened.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:16 PM   #593
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This thread is reinforcing my impression of the old telephone game.

He didn’t claim that they were wearing maga hats. That was probably added by people who heard the “Maga country” comment. And really, a cheap mesh back baseball cap on top of a ski mask?
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:20 PM   #594
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
This thread is reinforcing my impression of the old telephone game.

He didn’t claim that they were wearing maga hats. That was probably added by people who heard the “Maga country” comment. And really, a cheap mesh back baseball cap on top of a ski mask?
I've never once said they were wearing MAGA hats, so give me credit for keeping the known facts straight.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:25 PM   #595
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
This thread is reinforcing my impression of the old telephone game.

He didn’t claim that they were wearing maga hats. That was probably added by people who heard the “Maga country” comment. And really, a cheap mesh back baseball cap on top of a ski mask?
I stand corrected. You are right. I was conflating a MAGA statement with a MAGA hat.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:27 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
None of the scenarios I can come up with make any sense to me.

For all the reasons others have posted, the idea that he is telling the truth is at best suspect. It could be. It has been said that there are some homeless dudes around. Imagine (it's not much of a stretch) that a couple of them are racists. They learn that the guy they see sometimes is an uppity ****** queer guy. (Counting on autocensor) They decide to beat him up and show him who's boss. That isn't too much of a stretch. But in the middle of a very cold night, and they just happen to conduct the attack in an area that isn't covered by cameras? And the sandwich....? Seems weird.


But.....it's fake? What? A publicity stunt? That seems weird.



I keep trying to come up with something that happened, and he needed a cover story. In the middle of some kinky sex game, and requires medical attention, so they make up a story about MAGA hat wearers? Unless the kinky sex games required a sandwich, it doesn't seem good, and although he was treated, it doesn't sound like his wounds were all that sever that he absolutely had to go to the hospital.


I even wondered if maybe a suicide attempt. But.....sandwich?


No. I can't come up with anything. Nothing fits. What's the frequency, Kenneth? By default, I'll assume he's telling the truth, and figure that there are professonals following up on this to reveal what really happened.
Its rare that I agree with you.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:48 PM   #597
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
None of the scenarios I can come up with make any sense to me.

For all the reasons others have posted, the idea that he is telling the truth is at best suspect. It could be. It has been said that there are some homeless dudes around. Imagine (it's not much of a stretch) that a couple of them are racists. They learn that the guy they see sometimes is an uppity ****** queer guy. (Counting on autocensor) They decide to beat him up and show him who's boss. That isn't too much of a stretch. But in the middle of a very cold night, and they just happen to conduct the attack in an area that isn't covered by cameras? And the sandwich....? Seems weird.


But.....it's fake? What? A publicity stunt? That seems weird.



I keep trying to come up with something that happened, and he needed a cover story. In the middle of some kinky sex game, and requires medical attention, so they make up a story about MAGA hat wearers? Unless the kinky sex games required a sandwich, it doesn't seem good, and although he was treated, it doesn't sound like his wounds were all that sever that he absolutely had to go to the hospital.


I even wondered if maybe a suicide attempt. But.....sandwich?


No. I can't come up with anything. Nothing fits. What's the frequency, Kenneth? By default, I'll assume he's telling the truth, and figure that there are professonals following up on this to reveal what really happened.
Good on you trying to be open minded, but the hilighted bit isn't really a thing.

There aren't violent, racist, homophobic white homeless dudes in pairs roaming Chicago beating up minorities. Especially not that area of Chicago (or any other.)

No. This didn't happen.

Not too odd to me that he would seek attention and seek to defame his racial/political opponents (white conservatives) though.

You saw how absolutely bonkers the left went over a 16 year old smiling in a MAGA hat - the left are just insane. They are insane with a fervor to destroy civilization and insane with anti-white hatred.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:52 PM   #598
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Good on you trying to be open minded, but the hilighted bit isn't really a thing.

There aren't violent, racist, homophobic white homeless dudes in pairs roaming Chicago beating up minorities. Especially not that area of Chicago (or any other.)

No. This didn't happen.

Not too odd to me that he would seek attention and seek to defame his racial/political opponents (white conservatives) though.

You saw how absolutely bonkers the left went over a 16 year old smiling in a MAGA hat - the left are just insane. They are insane with a fervor to destroy civilization and insane with anti-white hatred.
See guys, racists don't exist! Skeptic Tank says so.

Oh wait...
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:56 PM   #599
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
See guys, racists don't exist! Skeptic Tank says so.

Oh wait...
I didn't say racists don't exist. Racists most certainly do exist. There are over 7 billion of them, in fact.

What I'm saying is that the type of racists described in this hoax, in the area it's claimed to have happened in, do not exist.

This event did not happen.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:14 PM   #600
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
The argument I'm addressing is that if Smollett is telling the truth, then he would happily hand over his phone because it would help with his case. But his phone would add nothing to his case and all of the reasons even skeptical posters gave show us reasons handing over the phone could suck. Given all that, not turning in his phone doesn't look like particularly damming evidence he's lying.
No, he wouldn't. It's private.
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