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Old 15th March 2019, 11:41 AM   #401
sadhatter
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I'm having trouble commenting in this thread as this act disgusts me on a pretty deep level, and several facets of it are genuinely shocking to me, which is admittedly quite rare.

Here is my opinion such as it is, someone who is increasingly becoming more center leaning.

This event makes me realize how much the world is being ruined by groups of people who believe their way is the only way. That there is no room for arguement ,no room for compromise , all or nothing , fight for the sake of fighting ********.

And this can be said for the vast majority of social interaction in this day and age, and I'll be damned if I can think of any way to try and help change that.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:44 AM   #402
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CNN says that each gas can was equipped with an exploding device. So I guess those are the IEDs.

Also a clarification. He first enters Al Noor carrying a semi-auto shotgun in hand and also with a rifle slung over a shoulder. After 9 shots from the shotgun he switches to the rifle. My earlier error was saying that he only carried one gun when entering the mosque.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:50 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I'm having trouble commenting in this thread as this act disgusts me on a pretty deep level, and several facets of it are genuinely shocking to me, which is admittedly quite rare.

Here is my opinion such as it is, someone who is increasingly becoming more center leaning.

This event makes me realize how much the world is being ruined by groups of people who believe their way is the only way. That there is no room for arguement ,no room for compromise , all or nothing , fight for the sake of fighting ********.

And this can be said for the vast majority of social interaction in this day and age, and I'll be damned if I can think of any way to try and help change that.
Agreed.

I'd throw in the fact that there are folks on both sides of just about any political question past their favorite ice cream flavor that approve of violence against individuals holding divergent opinions.

I recently heard someone disapprove of a law enforcement action against an individual planning attacks on muslims - these ********:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/n...community.html

The comment was that the police were arresting the wrong people and they (suspects) should be given a medal.

Did this guy lose a leg or a kid downrange? a loved one? No. No military service, no family serving. His opinion based on the fact "they shouldn't be here..."
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:54 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I see that PewDiePie fans have taken to social media to explain to us all in no uncertain terms that the real victim of the Christchurch mosque shootings was PewDiePie.
Well ... PewDiePie AND Arthur Brown.*





*Both totally suck!

We need some laughs in between the crying, people.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:56 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I see that PewDiePie fans have taken to social media to explain to us all in no uncertain terms that the real victim of the Christchurch mosque shootings was PewDiePie.


I never liked PewDiePie anyway, I thought his game reviews were stupid,desperate attampts to be funny and outrageous, and soon it became all about PewDiePie with little about whether the game he was reviewing was good or not.
When he begun making bigoted statements in a an attempt to be outrageous and provocative, I stopped paying attention to him.
Sorry, but you don't spew bigoted crap and then get away with saying "I was only joking". I don't thing the guy is a bigot. but he is a sad example of the whole internet culture where anything goes and they refuse to tbeleive their actions might have bad consequences.
And don't get me started on how fanboys will defend ANYTHING the object of their worship does.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:58 AM   #406
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I'm so happy to have no clue what PewDiePie is. Never heard of it.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:05 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I see that PewDiePie fans have taken to social media to explain to us all in no uncertain terms that the real victim of the Christchurch mosque shootings was PewDiePie.
There are a lot of them so any number of them could be insensitive dicks.

For me, a far more worrying thought is the number of people cheering on the shooter.

I wonder if any of their support is prosecutable. After all, depending on context and jurisdiction, support of terrorism is a criminal act.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:05 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm so happy to have no clue what PewDiePie is. Never heard of it.
It's "Never Heard of Him" but consider yourself lucky.
He is a video game reviewer with delusions of grandeur, and who makes bigoted statements in a desperate attempt to be edgy and outrageous. He is best ignored.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:09 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
There are a lot of them so any number of them could be insensitive dicks.

For me, a far more worrying thought is the number of people cheering on the shooter.

I wonder if any of their support is prosecutable. After all, depending on context and jurisdiction, support of terrorism is a criminal act.
Yeah, the people who support PewDiePie are just another bunch of moronic fanboys, but the ones who are cheering the shooter are sick,sick,bastards.
I know some of them are probably just 16 year old kids trying to be as ourtrageous as possible, but enough of them are hard core dangerous bigots to be very worrying.
And, nope, their support is not criminal. You have to materially support a terrorist to be prosecutable under most countrie's laws.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:11 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It's "Never Heard of Him" but consider yourself lucky.
He is a video game reviewer with delusions of grandeur, and who makes bigoted statements in a desperate attempt to be edgy and outrageous. He is best ignored.
Oh. Easy for me to ignore because I have zero interest in video games. I stopped at Space Invaders. Anyway I won't derail.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:13 PM   #411
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Trump tweets

Just spoke with Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, regarding the horrific events that have taken place over the past 24 hours. I informed the Prime Minister....

....that we stand in solidarity with New Zealand – and that any assistance the U.S.A. can give, we stand by ready to help. We love you New Zealand!
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:13 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
...And don't get me started on how fanboys will defend ANYTHING the object of their worship does.
That does trip me out because it's literally anything. You can't even say "well ... I like (object of worship) but when they do x, they suck." Nuance is not allowed. It's disturbing.

End rant.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:18 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, the people who support PewDiePie are just another bunch of moronic fanboys, but the ones who are cheering the shooter are sick,sick,bastards.
I know some of them are probably just 16 year old kids trying to be as ourtrageous as possible, but enough of them are hard core dangerous bigots to be very worrying.
And, nope, their support is not criminal. You have to materially support a terrorist to be prosecutable under most countrie's laws.
I think it depends. It might be illegal under UK law to encourage the shooter, so any comments that could be traced to an actual user could potentially be criminal. Aside from that, there could be people watching who had failed to report him to the authorities in the early stages. This would also be considered criminal in certain circumstances.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:24 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm so happy to have no clue what PewDiePie is. Never heard of it.
You must have, albeit without realizing it. PewDiePie is only relevant because the gunman on his video is heard saying "Subscribe to PewDiePie" before beginning the massacre. It is a phrase his fans like to post, speak, and spread over the internet at every opportunity. PewDiePie is known for racist utterances so it is unsurprising that a white supremacist shooter would be a fan of his; but otherwise the YouTuber isn't particularly important to the shooting. The terrorist evidently stuffed his video and manifesto with any number of jokes, references, and memes commonly shared among net-Nazi manchildren and evoking the YouTuber's name is just another one of them.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:24 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump tweets

Just spoke with Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, regarding the horrific events that have taken place over the past 24 hours. I informed the Prime Minister....

....that we stand in solidarity with New Zealand – and that any assistance the U.S.A. can give, we stand by ready to help. We love you New Zealand!
I think I am going to lose my lunch at the huge hypocrisy of that statement.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:29 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
You must have, albeit without realizing it. PewDiePie is only relevant because the gunman on his video is heard saying "Subscribe to PewDiePie" before beginning the massacre. It is a phrase his fans like to post, speak, and spread over the internet at every opportunity. PewDiePie is known for racist utterances so it is unsurprising that a white supremacist shooter would be a fan of his; but otherwise the YouTuber isn't particularly important to the shooting. The terrorist evidently stuffed his video and manifesto with any number of jokes, references, and memes commonly shared among net-Nazi manchildren and evoking the YouTuber's name is just another one of them.
PewDiePie responds to the shootings https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattper.../#1a08180e6f66

I had to laugh at PewDiePie's pious shock that his name was mentioned by the shooter;you constanly make racist statements ,even if you are "only joking" you are going to get racist followers.
God, Internet fandom is so often freaking clueless.

He
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:31 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
That does trip me out because it's literally anything. You can't even say "well ... I like (object of worship) but when they do x, they suck." Nuance is not allowed. It's disturbing.

End rant.
Remember the death threats that critics got from DC fanboys when they gave
Batman Vs Superman bad reviews?

But yeah;you overall like a film but mention it's flaws the fanboys go crazy.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:31 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Oh. Easy for me to ignore because I have zero interest in video games. I stopped at Space Invaders. Anyway I won't derail.
I think he is one of the top two or three most popular channels on Youtube. He's one of those people who is nearly invisible to most adults, but hugely popular with kids and teens and younger adults. He's got 90 million subscribers, and has been accused of anti-semitism.

So, not really a derail - PewDiePie has more influence than most politicians and all but a handful of celebrities. You may not know who he is, but your kids or grandkids and such do (if you have any).

That said, what little of him I have seen was juvenile and stupid.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:37 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I had to laugh at PewDiePie's pious shock that his name was mentioned by the shooter;you constanly make racist statements ,even if you are "only joking" you are going to get racist followers.
God, Internet fandom is so often freaking clueless.
That's the whole problem with "only joking" racism - when you think casual racism is "funny" and "ironic", you think it's even funnier when your fans make more and more extreme comments because as far as you're concerned it's all a big joke. It never even occurs to you that some of those people aren't really joking; anybody who suggests as much is just another target for your derision.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:38 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I think he is one of the top two or three most popular channels on Youtube. He's one of those people who is nearly invisible to most adults, but hugely popular with kids and teens and younger adults. He's got 90 million subscribers, and has been accused of anti-semitism.

So, not really a derail - PewDiePie has more influence than most politicians and all but a handful of celebrities. You may not know who he is, but your kids or grandkids and such do (if you have any).

That said, what little of him I have seen was juvenile and stupid.
He hired people to stand behind him with signs saying "Death To ALl Jews" and has used the N word on several occasions. That cost him a deal with Disney .

I don't think he is a bigot, but have no sympathy for him. I am sick and tired of people tyring to be edgy using racial and ethnic slurs and then try to get off the hook by saying "Only Joking" or"Just exposing Bigotry".
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:42 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
PewDiePie responds to the shootings https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattper.../#1a08180e6f66

I had to laugh at PewDiePie's pious shock that his name was mentioned by the shooter;you constanly make racist statements ,even if you are "only joking" you are going to get racist followers.
God, Internet fandom is so often freaking clueless.

He
I’ve never watched any of his stuff and know of him by reputation alone. That, yes, he has tried to shock and sometimes gets called on it. I don’t know whether the guy is a racist or not but nonetheless it probably *is* a shock if someone going on a murderous spree namechecks you. Apparently another person the shooter referenced is Candace Owens, a young, black Republican activist who is probably also shocked at both the news and the association.

Similarly, I doubt Arthur Brown appreciates the boost in clicks his music has been getting in the last few hours. I have to say I did not know the singer’s name and when I Googled it a news story tells me that someone called Arthur Brown was shot dead in Auckland. Was the shooter making some connection? It seems a bit of a stretch but...

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...klands-m-ngere
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:45 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I had to laugh at PewDiePie's pious shock that his name was mentioned by the shooter;you constanly make racist statements ,even if you are "only joking" you are going to get racist followers.

"Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

-They Might be Giants, "Your Racist Friend"
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:47 PM   #423
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They took this guy alive.

I'm not sure that American cops would have done that. Lots of Americans would be disappointed with him being taken alive. Yeah but if he isn't pointing a gun you can't shoot him. Yeah but those American cops do it all the time - so do it this time and lie about it. Just kill him and say it was self defense.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:52 PM   #424
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Wow! Candace Owens response is even more time-deaf than I can imagine:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-attack.html
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:58 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They took this guy alive.

I'm not sure that American cops would have done that. Lots of Americans would be disappointed with him being taken alive. Yeah but if he isn't pointing a gun you can't shoot him. Yeah but those American cops do it all the time - so do it this time and lie about it. Just kill him and say it was self defense.
Apart from all the times American cops have taken shooters alive you mean?
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:04 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They took this guy alive.

I'm not sure that American cops would have done that. Lots of Americans would be disappointed with him being taken alive. Yeah but if he isn't pointing a gun you can't shoot him. Yeah but those American cops do it all the time - so do it this time and lie about it. Just kill him and say it was self defense.


What follows is predicated on my being "Grand Tyrant of New Zealand" for a while.

I don't know whether NZ has a death penalty, but even if it does, in this case I don't think it should be used. Not because I am at all sympathetic to the criminal, but because it's not needed except for revenge.

In fact, I would not even allow a trial. He has incriminated himself by his statements and video, and thus a trial is not needed.

I would sentence him to a term of life imprisonment without parole, once consecutively for each person he murdered.

NO trial; NO appeals; NO argument over death penalty; NO permission for him to make statements; NO visits by relatives, friends, supporters, curious reporters; NO correspondence from or to him. No circus; no expenditure of Crown funds on trials and appeals and whatever other shenanigans he or his lawyers might attempt.

He just ... evaporates.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:05 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They took this guy alive.

I'm not sure that American cops would have done that. Lots of Americans would be disappointed with him being taken alive. Yeah but if he isn't pointing a gun you can't shoot him. Yeah but those American cops do it all the time - so do it this time and lie about it. Just kill him and say it was self defense.
Most American mass shooters shoot themselves rather than submit to capture:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ide-connection
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:08 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They took this guy alive.

I'm not sure that American cops would have done that. Lots of Americans would be disappointed with him being taken alive. Yeah but if he isn't pointing a gun you can't shoot him. Yeah but those American cops do it all the time - so do it this time and lie about it. Just kill him and say it was self defense.
A number of mass murderers get taken alive by the police. The Aurora movie shooter comes to mind,

Most take their own lives as he police close in. It’s less common that the police kill the shooter.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:08 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
As he leaves Al Noor he puts music on his car stereo. Loud music. Then as he is pulling away he sees somebody on the sidewalk. He slows and grabs the pump-action shotgun. He aims through the windshield and shoots. Pumps and shoots through holes in the glass several times. Then shoots through the passenger window as it shatters and falls out.

The song playing through all of this is Fire by Arthur Brown. Again like some sort of spree killer video game or a movie.

Here is the song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE
I saw that performed live when I was a teen in California. He had that lit fire thing on his head.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:09 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
What follows is predicated on my being "Grand Tyrant of New Zealand" for a while.

I don't know whether NZ has a death penalty, but even if it does, in this case I don't think it should be used. Not because I am at all sympathetic to the criminal, but because it's not needed except for revenge.

In fact, I would not even allow a trial. He has incriminated himself by his statements and video, and thus a trial is not needed.

I would sentence him to a term of life imprisonment without parole, once consecutively for each person he murdered.

NO trial; NO appeals; NO argument over death penalty; NO permission for him to make statements; NO visits by relatives, friends, supporters, curious reporters; NO correspondence from or to him. No circus; no expenditure of Crown funds on trials and appeals and whatever other shenanigans he or his lawyers might attempt.

He just ... evaporates.
There’s no death penalty in New Zealand but there is a legal system which would require a trial, obviously.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:13 PM   #431
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[For some unknown reason, the quite function isn't working. This responds to angrysoba.]


I understand that the current legal system requires a trial. That's why I said I'd have to be the Tyrant to implement the sentence.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:20 PM   #432
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump tweets

Just spoke with Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, regarding the horrific events that have taken place over the past 24 hours. I informed the Prime Minister....

....that we stand in solidarity with New Zealand – and that any assistance the U.S.A. can give, we stand by ready to help. We love you New Zealand!
Press conference just now was pretty disgusting. Trump went from reading a support statement to NZ then went directly into promoting fear mongering, his veto so he can build the wall, and he brought "Angel families" and complimented them...

Talk about faux concern over the slaughter of Muslims.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:29 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
"Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

-They Might be Giants, "Your Racist Friend"
I am so stealing that quote.
And that is the big downside of the internet and social media:Bad Behavior is hard to punish, and that means more Bad Behavior.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:32 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Press conference just now was pretty disgusting. Trump went from reading a support statement to NZ then went directly into promoting fear mongering, his veto so he can build the wall, and he brought "Angel families" and complimented them...

Talk about faux concern over the slaughter of Muslims.
Meh. Trump's concern IS faux concern of course; but the direction of his press conference wasn't objectionable. It is common practice to give a solidarity statement at the beginning of the next press conference after a major tragic event like this, but in all cases the conference then normally proceeds to the business it was actually held for - in this case, his veto of yesterday's Senate rejection of his state of emergency.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:34 PM   #435
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Press conference just now was pretty disgusting. Trump went from reading a support statement to NZ then went directly into promoting fear mongering, his veto so he can build the wall, and he brought "Angel families" and complimented them...

Talk about faux concern over the slaughter of Muslims.
I would like to go one week without Trump making me embaraced to be an American.
He starts with a phony statement about bigotry, then proceeds to fearmonger against people with brown skins . Disgusting.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:35 PM   #436
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am so stealing that quote.
It's a fine sentiment.

I'll go with: if you molest a child "as a joke", you're still a child molester.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:41 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
He hired people to stand behind him with signs saying "Death To ALl Jews" and has used the N word on several occasions. That cost him a deal with Disney .

I don't think he is a bigot, but have no sympathy for him. I am sick and tired of people tyring to be edgy using racial and ethnic slurs and then try to get off the hook by saying "Only Joking" or"Just exposing Bigotry".
To clarify: No one was standing behind him. He experimented with an online marketing service called fiver, where you pay as little as $5 to have someone film a message. He wanted to see if the site had any oversight as to what kind of messages were allowed. Two men, who seemingly did not speak any English, made a sign with the message he had sent, and held it up for the camera. He unintentionally highlighted a potential exploit in a service and was shocked that they actually allowed it. Fiverr then took steps to have more oversight and control over what messages could be read through their site.

I give him a pass on saying the word "******" while playing PUBG and live streaming, since it was out of frustration and in the heat of the moment. He didn't know the other player or their race. He immediately apologized the second the words left his mouth. I have heard far worse on XBOX live where online games can become really intense and emotional situations, where some even get physically destructive.

He went from obscurity to having over 89 milllion subscribers in just a few years using a medium that was largely unexplored territory. There were no steps to follow. He was bound to make mistakes along the way. Its been a learning process for everyone. I have no doubt he will take this tragedy to heart.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:42 PM   #438
William Parcher
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CNN says that only one person died at the hospital.

A witness at Al Noor says it took police 20 minutes to arrive when it should have taken about 2 minutes.

I have no idea if any of this stuff is true.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:55 PM   #439
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PM says she will tighten gun laws in NZ.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:03 PM   #440
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
PM says she will tighten gun laws in NZ.
I said earlier that would be the result.
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