ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 27th September 2016, 07:05 AM   #81
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,107
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Ohhhhh!

I think that one was linked to last week (or maybe the week before).

Ah, I must confess to not having read the whole thread (shocker, I know )
__________________
Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 07:07 AM   #82
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
When I first joined this forum there was an epic thread regarding whether it was possible to build a wind powered vehicle that went Directly Downwind Faster Than The Wind.

As it turned out, it was. After this had been proven to the satisfaction of everyone sane, there was one dissenting voice insisting that it was a scam, despite there being several videos of the feat actually being achieved.
This thread is going to be like that one.

Only in reverse.
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 07:14 AM   #83
Dr.Sid
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,233
? esrever ni, naem uoy od tahW.
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 07:21 AM   #84
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
 
Hokulele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Biggest Little City in the World
Posts: 29,518
esspee is trying to imply that instead of being the lone, dissenting voice, all of the other posters will be convinced that he/she right all along.

Even though esspee has already made the typical "Ha ha! I was just trolling you all along! I can't believe you are still falling for it" desperate attempt at saving face a few days back.
__________________
"Oh god...What have you done, zooterkin? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!?!" - Cleon
Hokulele is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 08:57 AM   #85
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
esspee is trying to imply that instead of being the lone, dissenting voice, all of the other posters will be convinced that he/she right all along.

Even though esspee has already made the typical "Ha ha! I was just trolling you all along! I can't believe you are still falling for it" desperate attempt at saving face a few days back.
If that is what you thougth i was saying I failed massivley in my communication. I think you are refering to when i said smart people get fooled all the time, or are easier to fool. I meant that smart people are easier to fool as in in this case they less likely to see the Flyboard as a fake because they have their noses too close up to he detail and have cerebral/acedemic way of looking at stuff, not a intuition based one. And they are tempted to let their knowledge flatter themselves.

I genuinely believe that this is very likely a hoax. Lets be clear - if it is proven real - i will stand up and stand by what will be my legendary fail and let everyone throw rotten tomatoes.
BUt i think it is hoax - and i think it will come out as such.

However I have not yet been able to prove it myself. You lot have been helpful and educational to bounce ideas off and help me see how i could approach proving it, or even how i could be wrong.
But this is not trolling.

Nor is editing together videos and uploading them to youtube.

That is not trolling either.
Believe it or not, i had to learn an entire editing program (well two really) and probrably all up spent about 40-50hrs or more sourcing footage and editing and learning how to edit just to make my 4 most recent short videos. Learning new programs is a bithc.
Plus my computer is super slow for rendering. Like abacus slow.

I would not put that much effort in if I was just trolling.


Speaking of videos, i think the hive mind of the internet is starting to suspect something is not quite right with the Flyboard.

I have had a rather large uptick in views on my flyboard videos in the last day. The latest video even got more likes than dislikes. Simply unheard of before recently. Before a few days ago it was just dislikes and abuse.


The recent 3 videos on facebook of the Florida flight which have about 100million views alone mean that everyone is looking towards this Flyboard now ( everyone except newspapers and news agencies, funny that)

I predict that this will mean that the hoax (if it is one) will be busted pretty soon. The more eyes looking at it, the better.

This week alone I've had around 20,000+ views on my flyboard vids.
That is a lot compared to normal.
And the ratio of dislikes to likes is turning too. People are actually thumbing up my videos now.
I think the doubters will reach critical mass soon and someone with inside knowledge or who sees something I have missed will bust it open.
ANd then that will be that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0sxFkN2Eg

Last edited by esspee; 27th September 2016 at 09:20 AM.
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 09:34 AM   #86
Tolls
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,582
That's all well and good, and I'm sure it helps to drive traffic to your Youtube vids, but you still haven't explained where the Guinness World Records people fit in, and what is in it for them considering this would destroy their reputation.
Tolls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 09:45 AM   #87
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
That's all well and good, and I'm sure it helps to drive traffic to your Youtube vids, but you still haven't explained where the Guinness World Records people fit in, and what is in it for them considering this would destroy their reputation.
Well, I personally do not consider them a solid source.

The company has changed hands many times recently.
It is not what it used to be when we were kids and got the Book for christmas.

Its business model has changed with the times too. It is a brand awareness marketing company now.

I agree that it does not make sense for them to endager there entire brand over a hoax.

BUt it also makes no sense training untethered over concrete with no crash mats.
Or the press not covering a truly viral high interest event (100million views on FB alone).
Or the FAA not arresting Franky for flying a jet powered aircraft in a public space without a licence or permissions.
etc etc

Lot of things do not make sense.

Those things that i believe do not make sense, by themselves do not prove it is fake.

ANd your vailid point about GUiness...that not making sense by itself does not prove it is real.

I will let you have your opinion in the face of the many things i see as making no sense,
ANd you let me have my opinion in the face of the one thing that you see as making no sense (Guiness)

Deal?


p.s. My channel is not monetised, it is simply there to share my opinion and help solve this possible hoax via exposure to many people. SO more eyes does not mean money. But someone watching my vid or reading this thread might just turn out to be the person who finally proves it a fake. (....or finally proves it real) So its not about views, its about finding out the truth.

Last edited by esspee; 27th September 2016 at 09:51 AM.
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 10:53 AM   #88
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 38,525
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Well, I personally do not consider them a solid source.

The company has changed hands many times recently.
Last time was in 2008, and only three times before that, in over sixty years. Hardly "many times".
Quote:
It is not what it used to be when we were kids and got the Book for christmas.
How is it different?
Quote:

Its business model has changed with the times too. It is a brand awareness marketing company now.
How is that different? It's always been about the brand.

Quote:
I agree that it does not make sense for them to endager there entire brand over a hoax.
Exactly.
Quote:
BUt it also makes no sense training untethered over concrete with no crash mats.
Does he do this? How much? Perhaps he's over-confident.
Quote:
Or the press not covering a truly viral high interest event (100million views on FB alone).
It was covered in the press.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/late...st-drive-video
http://naplesherald.com/2016/09/24/p...deo-in-naples/
http://newswatchtv.com/2016/09/23/je...ed-hoverboard/
Quote:
Or the FAA not arresting Franky for flying a jet powered aircraft in a public space without a licence or permissions.
Does the FAA have the power of arrest?
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 12:42 PM   #89
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,725
esspee must be pulling his hair out trying to figure out how they always hide the cable and the helicopter.

Ernie M has already left the building because, well, because no crane, helicopter, or cable. He doesn't even have a pair of deuces in his hand.

Wait, there was some other unknown drive-by guy who posted a few weeks ago saying he thought it was fake. Where the hell did he go? Dammit, esspee needs to talk to him. Come back!
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 12:56 PM   #90
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,321
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
esspee must be pulling his hair out trying to figure out how they always hide the cable and the helicopter.

Ernie M has already left the building because, well, because no crane, helicopter, or cable. He doesn't even have a pair of deuces in his hand.

Wait, there was some other unknown drive-by guy who posted a few weeks ago saying he thought it was fake. Where the hell did he go? Dammit, esspee needs to talk to him. Come back!
The helicopter is held out of shot by a larger helicopter.

It's helicopters all the way up.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 01:07 PM   #91
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,725
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Lot of things do not make sense.
There is really only one thing that doesn't make any sense. The thing that doesn't make any meaningful and rational sense is the holding of the following concept...

Eventually yes, at some yet unknown time in the future, the reality of the Flyboard Air will finally be revealed.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 01:14 PM   #92
ceptimus
puzzler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,835
Maybe Bigfoot is evading all those trail cameras using the same invisible helicopter and cable system?
ceptimus is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 01:26 PM   #93
GlennB
In search of pi(e)
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 21,065
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
When I first joined this forum there was an epic thread regarding whether it was possible to build a wind powered vehicle that went Directly Downwind Faster Than The Wind.

As it turned out, it was. After this had been proven to the satisfaction of everyone sane, there was one dissenting voice insisting that it was a scam, despite there being several videos of the feat actually being achieved.
Yeah, that was good Did you follow it on Talk Rational?

Was it Uncayimmy doubting it here, or was he just spoofing doubt?
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

Last edited by GlennB; 27th September 2016 at 01:29 PM.
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 01:32 PM   #94
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,725
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
But this is not trolling.
This is a debatable topic. You are not excluded from this just because you say so.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 01:35 PM   #95
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Maybe Bigfoot is evading all those trail cameras using the same invisible helicopter and cable system?
YOu know whats intersting?

I've went back and looked and some of the older FlyBd air videos today, like the popular first ones, and the record ones etc. And the popular more recent ones.

YOu know whats happening?

Noticeably more people recently are commenting that it is fake or questioning its legitimacy or discussing how they think it is faked in the comments.

And instead of just getting shouted down, or told 'Guiness GUiness' some people are actually discussing it. Like the doubters are no longer total lone wolfs.


I think the critical mass of doubters is now here. There is now enough discussion for people not to feel that they are the only ones who think its BS or shady in some way.

I think that now more people will start to make videos about why they think it is a hoax. And more eyes will be looking into the strange aspects of the story.

I think it will be busted fairly soon.





Last edited by esspee; 27th September 2016 at 01:37 PM.
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 02:13 PM   #96
Dr.Sid
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,233
It's just your confusion deepening friend ..
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 07:24 PM   #97
macdoc
Philosopher
 
macdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet earth on slow boil
Posts: 7,750
I hear the flat earth society is on a membership drive

something in the water maybe
macdoc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 08:33 PM   #98
CynicalSkeptic
Master Poster
 
CynicalSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,600
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
YOu know whats intersting?

I've went back and looked and some of the older FlyBd air videos today, like the popular first ones, and the record ones etc. And the popular more recent ones.

YOu know whats happening?

Noticeably more people recently are commenting that it is fake or questioning its legitimacy or discussing how they think it is faked in the comments.

And instead of just getting shouted down, or told 'Guiness GUiness' some people are actually discussing it. Like the doubters are no longer total lone wolfs.


I think the critical mass of doubters is now here. There is now enough discussion for people not to feel that they are the only ones who think its BS or shady in some way.


YouTube comment trolls.
CynicalSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th September 2016, 11:41 PM   #99
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,575
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
YOu know whats intersting?

I've went back and looked and some of the older FlyBd air videos today, like the popular first ones, and the record ones etc. And the popular more recent ones.

YOu know whats happening?

Noticeably more people recently are commenting that it is fake or questioning its legitimacy or discussing how they think it is faked in the comments.

And instead of just getting shouted down, or told 'Guiness GUiness' some people are actually discussing it. Like the doubters are no longer total lone wolfs.


I think the critical mass of doubters is now here. There is now enough discussion for people not to feel that they are the only ones who think its BS or shady in some way.

I think that now more people will start to make videos about why they think it is a hoax. And more eyes will be looking into the strange aspects of the story.

I think it will be busted fairly soon.






Of course if it does turn out to be entirely legitimate you'll at least have the experience of having been right at the eye of the storm when a brand new conspiracy theory was born.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 12:53 AM   #100
mike81
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
YOu know whats intersting?

I've went back and looked and some of the older FlyBd air videos today, like the popular first ones, and the record ones etc. And the popular more recent ones.

YOu know whats happening?

Noticeably more people recently are commenting that it is fake or questioning its legitimacy or discussing how they think it is faked in the comments.

And instead of just getting shouted down, or told 'Guiness GUiness' some people are actually discussing it. Like the doubters are no longer total lone wolfs.


I think the critical mass of doubters is now here. There is now enough discussion for people not to feel that they are the only ones who think its BS or shady in some way.

I think that now more people will start to make videos about why they think it is a hoax. And more eyes will be looking into the strange aspects of the story.

I think it will be busted fairly soon.





Lots of idiots, I mean people, on the internet say lots of things are fake. Mass shootings, moon landing, you name it.
mike81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 01:12 AM   #101
Tolls
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,582
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
It is not what it used to be when we were kids and got the Book for christmas.
My eldest got one this last Christmas. Not sure I see how that's different?
As said, it's always been about the brand. The McWhirters quite liked the publicity.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I agree that it does not make sense for them to endager there entire brand over a hoax.
... snip ...
ANd your vailid point about GUiness...that not making sense by itself does not prove it is real.
But that's a massive glaring hole in your theory.
Well, amongst all the other technical bits, but I'll leave those to others to argue.
If you can't explain why Guinness would do this (other than as an April Fool's joke) then you're in a spot of bother.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
YOu know whats intersting?

I've went back and looked and some of the older FlyBd air videos today, like the popular first ones, and the record ones etc. And the popular more recent ones.

YOu know whats happening?

Noticeably more people recently are commenting that it is fake or questioning its legitimacy or discussing how they think it is faked in the comments.
You've met the internet I take it?
This is a pretty common phenomenon.
People see some "interesting" conspiracy nonsense and they start to congregate. And then the echo chamber kicks in.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
And instead of just getting shouted down, or told 'Guiness GUiness' some people are actually discussing it. Like the doubters are no longer total lone wolfs.
And it's been discussed here.
And everything (everything) you've brought up has been refuted, both technical and not.
So, no...it's not people shouting "Guinness Guinness". That's just me, because I don't know enough about jets to answer those questions.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I think the critical mass of doubters is now here. There is now enough discussion for people not to feel that they are the only ones who think its BS or shady in some way.
Which simply means there's enough people to form their own clique and feed each other's views. The echo chamber effect. Welcome to the internet.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I think that now more people will start to make videos about why they think it is a hoax. And more eyes will be looking into the strange aspects of the story.
Again, that's how all these things work. We've seen it time and again. Doesn't make the nonsense any more true.
Tolls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 01:14 AM   #102
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 6,455
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
YOu know whats intersting?

I've went back and looked and some of the older FlyBd air videos today, like the popular first ones, and the record ones etc. And the popular more recent ones.
Well, I have gone back and looked at some of the earlier Flyboard Air videos too, and compared them with the more recent ones. What I have noticed is that Franky has become more confident in flying the thing.... more spins, flatter AoA leading to higher forward speed, more accurate flying and steeper, faster turns.

This is exactly the sort of progression you would expect to see as a pilot becomes accustomed to flying a new machine and learning, by practical experience, what the limits of its flight envelope are.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is a real flying machine; none whatsoever. Its performance appears to match very closely what we know about how it works, and there have literally been tens of thousands of eye-witnesses. Not one single eye-witness has come forward and said they were there and it was a drone or he was slung below a helicopter.
__________________
► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 02:32 AM   #103
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,114
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I genuinely believe that this is very likely a hoax. Lets be clear - if it is proven real - i will stand up and stand by what will be my legendary fail and let everyone throw rotten tomatoes.
No you won't. No matter what kind of evidence, you will find more things that "do not feel right".
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 03:49 AM   #104
RussDill
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Charleston
Posts: 5,399
Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
No you won't. No matter what kind of evidence, you will find more things that "do not feel right".
Yup, we've been through this before, attempting to pin down a direct statement from esspee on what he would consider proof is impossible.

ETA: Oh, and here's more local media coverage of the flyboard air demonstration:

http://www.naplesnews.com/story/news...ship/90827786/

Quote:
After the competition wrapped up, Zapata gave an even more amazing demonstration of the next direction he is taking aerial sports. With no hose or tether connecting him to the ground, he flew over Lake Avalon in an air-powered contraption called Flyboard Air, easily outpacing jet-skis racing along the water below.
Even includes a photo showing that french press was also present.
__________________
The woods are lovely, dark and deep
but i have promises to keep
and lines to code before I sleep
And lines to code before I sleep

Last edited by RussDill; 28th September 2016 at 03:55 AM.
RussDill is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 04:53 AM   #105
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
@Tolls.


I mean - it has become a MARKETING company. SPecialising in viral marketing and raising brand awareness via 'Records'.


ie - they don't make thee bulk of there money from books anymore.
There buisiness is this - say you are a company making chocolate - you phone them up, they design a marketing campaign around a record. Like biggest chocolate bar - or most chocolate bars stacked on top of each other etc etc etc. And they can tie it all in with other brands for sponsorship.
ANd you have to pay not only for the marketing team, but also for use of there logo, and for the replacement McWurter to turn up and hand you a certficate. Its all very expensive stuff.
ADVERTISING AGENCIES ARE EXPENSIVE - and Guinness is an advertising agency, trading off the perceived cultural trust people have in the name due to growing up with the books as Christmas presents for a few generations now.

That is what i mean by brand awareness. They are a marketing consultant team with a very effective delivery vehicle.

A lot of people are mentioning conspiracy theories.
You need a plot for a conspiraccy theory.
So if I am one of those in 'the eye of the storm' I best make one up quick

CONSPIRACY THEORY:
I will write one possible explanation as to how GUiness got involved: ONe possible scenario. Not saying this is what happened however. BUt this will be entertaining to imagine if nothing else.


***A couple of years back Zapata Industries create a great and amazing new product - the Flyboard Water jetpack thing.
THey develop and hone the product.
They take on debt and expand the market worldwide via a network of owner operators giving rides to tourists and trading under his Logo and with support from his marketing team, and product after sales service team.
They expand too quickly and owner operators are not really making enough to thrive, the novelty has worn off a little, and business is in dire need of a huge increase in new customers worldwide to keep the business alive and keep it above water. ( expanded too quickly)

You will see Franky is not a bad guy in this conspiracy theory.

Franky goes all in in a bold and brave attempt to save his company and the jobs of all his friends and employees. They are about to go bust - everything is on the line.
And also he feels obliged to try his best to save the incomes of the people he sold these franchises and products to worldwide (most people buying will have bought to use as a buisiness, as part of teh Flyboard Family ).

He re-mortgages the house, he sells his favorite jet-ski, he sells the motorbike, he takes out as many loans as he can on his business using whatever assets they have as collateral, he sells the family silverware.

He takes his huge pile of money - takes his already very good sales team, and walks into the offices of either Guiness, or another top end best of the best marketing advertising company.
They sit down and thrash it out.

Together with the top end marketing dudes or Guiness themselves, they come up with the idea of teh viral hoverboard videos. He already has a hoverboard afterall, but imagine it does not use water but air instead, WITH NO HOSE? And flys around like the Green Goblin.

ALl are agreed. Its risky, and its going to be expensive, but this will go mega viral for sure, raising brand awareness in a good way as what it looks like ( the green goblin hoverboard) is likely what it actually feels like to fly on a water flyboard.

A million or so euros is handed over to the marketing guys and Guinness get there cut and they call in the magicians and VFX dudes.


1. They have to lay the stage for the plot - so they come up with the first record - the Alex Duru record. A hoax by itself. But actually part of this whole marketing campaign. Low budget short video. Fake as ****, but good enough for people to buy it as real.

2. They get to work planning the main event - the RECORD, and integrating other marketing campaigns into it such as ford europe and crosscall ect.

3.They release a video that looks intentionally like it could be real or fake ( Flyboard Air test 1). This is to stir interest and discussion.

4. They flood online journalism with a press release containing the phrase - 'hoax or not, is it real? ' . This not only promotes discussion, but more importantly makes it so that anyone looking into it being fake using google to come staight across their marketing. Like mice in a maze.

5. Its record time. The main event goes flawlessly. Whatever movie magic/stunts cgi, conjouring trick they pull they do too good a job of it.

6. They continue with the press releases. The internet is now totally spammed with the flyboard air story. Every article says 'its real - is it real hoax or not etc etc)

7. The idea was to market through discussion of it being a hoax,
WHat they could not prepare for, was how gullible the public is these days. How much they would 'want to believe'.
No one is discussing it being fake. It was supposed to be that Guinness would say - it was just a april fools prank. What do they do now?
They keep rolling with it, I mean why not. The production level goes up. They learn form their mistakes. Luckily for them there is a thread on a strange website called International Skeptics. This gives them all the pointers they need to improve their future videos and help make the story more convincing to get as much mileage out of it as possible before the inevitable busting of the hoax.

8. when its finally busted open, everyone will slip away scot free, not least franky - who will be seen as 'the mischevious Frenchman that fooled the world'. The crowd will applaud.
In fact, the fact that it is a hoax, will be used to create even more free publicity and brand awareness, and free advertising.
If you can convince the world of a Flybaord Air, you can spin anything to look good. Even Guinness will come out of it looking good somehow.



Maybe they have a special ceremony and present a special certificate to Franky:

Official Guiness WOrld Record: Most successful viral hoax of all time - Franky Zapata 2016.

Last edited by esspee; 28th September 2016 at 05:43 AM.
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 05:36 AM   #106
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,126
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
DDWFTTW?

I filled the blanks with all the swear words I could think of and, apart from making me chuckle, I don't think I figured out what that stands for.
Directly Down Wind Faster Than The Wind. There were a number of threads on the subject of wind powered vehicles that could move faster than the wind, counter-intuitive but not particularly difficult technically. A couple of posters (Humber was the main one IIRR) refused to accept this reality and created a whole universe of their own to show why it was impossible.

Kinda like the person who's currently trying to prove the moon landings never happened because Earth re-entry was impossible, with much ignoring of inconvenient facts and evidence.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 05:38 AM   #107
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,126
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Ohhhhh!
I think that one was linked to last week (or maybe the week before).
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Ah, I must confess to not having read the whole thread (shocker, I know )
Yes, by me in fact.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
This thread is going to be like that one.

Only in reverse.
No. You are completely wrong and this has been shown repeatedly. Like Humber in that thread you demonstrate a lack of understanding basic physics, an inability/unwillingness to learn, and complete confidence in your (flawed) understanding with no basis whatsoever.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 05:41 AM   #108
jrhowell
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 245
Perhaps the Flyboard Air exists to distract you from realizing that the original water jet pack is the actual hoax. Looks fishy to me. I mean, how could that ever work!
jrhowell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 05:43 AM   #109
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,126
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
<snip>
Does the FAA have the power of arrest?
Actually the FAA, while not a specified FLEA. does have agents with the usual powers of arrest of special agents of the 1811 type.
Of course this trivia is irreverent as there was no crime committed as esspee claims.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 05:44 AM   #110
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,126
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
The helicopter is held out of shot by a larger helicopter.

It's helicopters all the way up.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 05:49 AM   #111
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,126
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
SPecialising in viral marketing and raising brand awareness via 'Records'.
Evidence?
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
There buisiness is this - say you are a company making chocolate - you phone them up, they design a marketing campaign around a record. Like biggest chocolate bar - or most chocolate bars stacked on top of each other etc etc etc.
Evidence?
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
ANd you have to pay not only for the marketing team, but also for use of there logo, and for the replacement McWurter to turn up and hand you a certficate. Its all very expensive stuff.
Evidence?
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
A lot of people are mentioning conspiracy theories.
Yep, the one you're promulgating.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
CONSPIRACY THEORY:
<snippage of much conspiratorial gibberish>
So you admit you have absolutely no evidence for your claims?



And get a spell-checker.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 05:56 AM   #112
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 38,525
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Maybe they have a special ceremony and present a special certificate to Franky:

Official Guiness WOrld Record: Most successful viral hoax of all time - Franky Zapata 2016.
Cool story, bro.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 06:16 AM   #113
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Perhaps the Flyboard Air exists to distract you from realizing that the original water jet pack is the actual hoax. Looks fishy to me. I mean, how could that ever work!
Now your talking.
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 06:22 AM   #114
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Actually the FAA, while not a specified FLEA. does have agents with the usual powers of arrest of special agents of the 1811 type.
Of course this trivia is irreverent as there was no crime committed as esspee claims.

Are you saying that he probably never flew an experimental aircraft without proper permissions in a public place?

Me too. So we have something in common at last.

If he did fly that thing as shown on the video footage without approval, FAA would have nailed his balls to the wall and extracted a rather large fine. Not to mention likely seizing the 'aircraft', all of his equipment, all footage and computers and doing a full investigation.
Aviation authorities do not piss about. They are very serious dudes. And for good reason.

Here is a snippet of the FAA statement according to Fox4

"The FAA is aware of the operation, and is looking into it," said Kathleen Bergen, an FAA spokeswoman in a statement. "The device/operator did not have an FAA-issued experimental aircraft certificate, which is required for an experimental aircraft."
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 06:30 AM   #115
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Evidence?

Evidence?

Evidence?

Yep, the one you're promulgating.


So you admit you have absolutely no evidence for your claims?



And get a spell-checker.
Evidence.

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/...ness/publicity

More evidence

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/...s/our-services

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/...small-business


http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/...s/case-studies


http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/...tial-marketing

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/corporate-news

Explore the website if you want to see more. Or just watch their promo video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5CQAJ5scDo this one is even more cynical https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN-...V1bh1YKt7evZMQ

If you are still unsure - if i find the time later i will see if i can find the article i read about it a while ago, about how Guiness world Records have had to change business plans due to people just not buying books anymore in general.

Last edited by esspee; 28th September 2016 at 07:24 AM.
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 06:35 AM   #116
esspee
black goo
 
esspee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,092
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Cool story, bro.
Thanks bro!
esspee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 07:55 AM   #117
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,321
Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Yup, we've been through this before, attempting to pin down a direct statement from esspee on what he would consider proof is impossible.

ETA: Oh, and here's more local media coverage of the flyboard air demonstration:

http://www.naplesnews.com/story/news...ship/90827786/



Even includes a photo showing that french press was also present.

Naples News added to the list of people in on the con.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 12:17 PM   #118
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 6,455
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
No. You are completely wrong and this has been shown repeatedly. Like Humber in that thread you demonstrate a lack of understanding basic physics, an inability/unwillingness to learn, and complete confidence in your (flawed) understanding with no basis whatsoever.
And for someone who claims to be involved in the aviation industry, I would have thought that would be a fatal flaw... unless of course his "involvement" amounted to being a baggage handler or serving coffee & buns at the cafeteria in his local airport
__________________
► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 02:59 PM   #119
RussDill
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Charleston
Posts: 5,399
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Now your talking.
...horse? Yes, his talking horse is also a hoax.
__________________
The woods are lovely, dark and deep
but i have promises to keep
and lines to code before I sleep
And lines to code before I sleep
RussDill is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2016, 03:07 PM   #120
RussDill
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Charleston
Posts: 5,399
Originally Posted by esspee View Post
If he did fly that thing as shown on the video footage without approval, FAA would have nailed his balls to the wall and extracted a rather large fine. Not to mention likely seizing the 'aircraft', all of his equipment, all footage and computers and doing a full investigation.
Evidence? You might want to look at their attempts to exercise any investigative, much less arresting, powers regarding the following individual:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
The woods are lovely, dark and deep
but i have promises to keep
and lines to code before I sleep
And lines to code before I sleep
RussDill is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:24 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.