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Tags donald trump , fascism charges , Trump controversies

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Old 8th January 2021, 08:47 AM   #921
Armitage72
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay here's a half serious/half sarcastic question.

If you asked Trump if he was fascist... what we he say?

Because I wouldn't be surprised at all if some Trump-speak mush-mouth mumbling that amounted to "Yes" would be it.

That would require him to know the word.

"Of course I'm fascist. I'm a great athlete. I run very fasct. People say I'm the fascist runner they've ever seen."
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Old 8th January 2021, 09:52 AM   #922
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I doubt it, personally. That's the thing about living in an alternate fact world, though. Much like devout followers of a religion can truly believe all manner of absurdities.
theprestige openly admitted in this subforum a while ago that he's just trolling for reactions.
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Old 8th January 2021, 09:55 AM   #923
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
FWIW, Godwin's Law is the rather banal observation that the longer a thread gets, the more likely that Nazi's will be invoked. As Godwin himself has repeatedly made clear, the invocation of Nazis doesn't actually indicate that they're being correctly used or not. Rather, the thoughtful use of such can be entirely appropriate.
The thing that seems to always be ignored WRT Godwin's Law is that the same thing is true about anything. The longer a thread gets, the more likely it is that someone will mention an apple. Or My Little Pony. Or a shadow that evokes a feeling of ennui.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:05 AM   #924
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Have y'all had the chance to reflect and extract yourselves from Dear Leader's rectum?
Up and vanished like a fart in the wind.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:06 AM   #925
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm not so sure that nobody could have imagined this.

Fascists have been holding a series of escalating events all summer. This includes events where they forcibly entered state government buildings.

MAGA CHUDs announced their intentions for this to be a moment of revolutionary violence weeks in advance. They literally said they would do it, they listened to speeches from politicians encouraging them to do it, then they did it.
And with plans to kidnap and put the governor on trial.

This type of event was easily predictable, if you were objective about the groups that were undertaking domestic terrorism and violence.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:21 AM   #926
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And with plans to kidnap and put the governor on trial.

This type of event was easily predictable, if you were objective about the groups that were undertaking domestic terrorism and violence.
Their final plan ended up being a plot to either assassinate or kidnap (then kill) the governor, but originally they had plans that looked a lot more like the DC capitol invasion. They wanted to raid the state capitol with a bunch of gunmen and capture the state politicians inside.

The rhetoric of the right wing has been pretty clear this whole time. People have always doubted that they really meant it, but the messaging has been pretty consistent.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:36 AM   #927
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The thing that seems to always be ignored WRT Godwin's Law is that the same thing is true about anything. The longer a thread gets, the more likely it is that someone will mention an apple. Or My Little Pony. Or a shadow that evokes a feeling of ennui.
Also Godwins law was essentially to highlight absurdities such as:

A: I am a vegetarian.
B: well then you must be Nazi, because Hitler was a vegetarian.

The law was later appropriated and invoked by those who just wanted to trivialize any debate about the dangers of fascist resurgence.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:50 AM   #928
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Yeah even the misunderstood, misused version of Godwin's Law never mean "You can never compare anyone to Hitler ever."

As said "Oh you can't say that, that's Godwinning" almost always can either from pedants or apologists for fascism.
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:25 AM   #929
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
I don't see point in giving benefit of the doubt. Republicans are pretty much modern equivalents of early 30's Nazis nowadays. Looking forward to end of 30's.

And no, I don't care about Godwin.
From what I have seen of Godwin lately (reported & on his Twitter feed), you probably have his permission in this case.
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:32 AM   #930
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And with plans to kidnap and put the governor on trial.

This type of event was easily predictable, if you were objective about the groups that were undertaking domestic terrorism and violence.
There's also this one in Ohio but she was too crazy (or not smart enough) to be able get together with the right people so she was never a serious threat.

There are probably other groups plotting similarly right now. Some might get as far as the Michigan wingnuts. Some might get farther. Some might actually follow through.

State government buildings need to harden their security right now.
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:34 AM   #931
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By the way, what's the answer to the question?
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Old 8th January 2021, 11:40 AM   #932
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Quote:
Are we allowed to call Trump's regime fascism now?
Only if you're comfortable being inaccurate.

It remains a completely inaccurate, hyperbolic, exaggerated, hair-on-fire, frenzied, nonsensical, hysterical accusation.

For about 5 years now, a large percentage of the world has been screaming about how Trump is a fascist and a huge danger to "our norms" "our democracy" and whatever else. They've told us he's Hitler 2.0, will probably nuke random countries when bored and not getting enough engagements on his latest Tweets, etc.

The truth has remained the same the entire time. He's a self-obsessed, silly man and a con artist that he's been since the 80s or earlier. He's a self-promoter and he was elected because people were hoping he could help push back against the left's very successful takeover of this country. That pushback amounted to basically nothing.

He was hot air and promises, and fulfilled about .00001% of them, all of which will be reversed shortly.

The hysteria about him and his supporters is 99% hot air as well. It's nonsensical.

EDIT: With regard to the events of the other day? Again, hysteria. Hundreds of thousands of Trump supporters showed up, 99% stood there with flags legally in order to try to convey the "stop the steal" message and "show up and be seen", etc. They behaved far better than most leftist organized events routinely do.

1% of them (far less than that, actually) broke into the Capitol and did mild damage. The left routinely disrupts and invades the very same building, and similar buildings, and interrupts proceedings there, when they don't like a court nominee or a bill being voted on, like maybe if it slightly limits late term abortions or something.

The invading group seemed to be primarily interested in taking selfies and making a show of "this is our house and these politicians can't ignore us!" type of thing. They caused some minor damage.

The narrative about that event is 99% hysterical BS. It was a nothing. END EDIT

You'll know when someone who is actually like that comes along, and it probably won't be too far off.
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Last edited by Skeptic Tank; 8th January 2021 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:09 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
<fascist apologetics>
...So, yes?
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:12 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post

The invading group seemed to be primarily interested in taking selfies and making a show of "this is our house and these politicians can't ignore us!" type of thing. They caused some minor damage.

And caused a greater death toll of American citizens than Benghazi, which we've been told was a horrifying scandal that required years of investigations and for which the people responsible should rot in prison for life.
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:13 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Only if you're comfortable being inaccurate.

It remains a completely inaccurate, hyperbolic, exaggerated, hair-on-fire, frenzied, nonsensical, hysterical accusation.

For about 5 years now, a large percentage of the world has been screaming about how Trump is a fascist and a huge danger to "our norms" "our democracy" and whatever else. They've told us he's Hitler 2.0, will probably nuke random countries when bored and not getting enough engagements on his latest Tweets, etc.

The truth has remained the same the entire time. He's a self-obsessed, silly man and a con artist that he's been since the 80s or earlier. He's a self-promoter and he was elected because people were hoping he could help push back against the left's very successful takeover of this country. That pushback amounted to basically nothing.

He was hot air and promises, and fulfilled about .00001% of them, all of which will be reversed shortly.

The hysteria about him and his supporters is 99% hot air as well. It's nonsensical.

EDIT: With regard to the events of the other day? Again, hysteria. Hundreds of thousands of Trump supporters showed up, 99% stood there with flags legally in order to try to convey the "stop the steal" message and "show up and be seen", etc. They behaved far better than most leftist organized events routinely do.

1% of them (far less than that, actually) broke into the Capitol and did mild damage. The left routinely disrupts and invades the very same building, and similar buildings, and interrupts proceedings there, when they don't like a court nominee or a bill being voted on, like maybe if it slightly limits late term abortions or something.

The invading group seemed to be primarily interested in taking selfies and making a show of "this is our house and these politicians can't ignore us!" type of thing. They caused some minor damage.

The narrative about that event is 99% hysterical BS. It was a nothing. END EDIT

You'll know when someone who is actually like that comes along, and it probably won't be too far off.
Here’s how you think people engaging in a constitutionally-protected activity should be treated:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
I wish the police were just straight up opening fire on these groups of protestors at this point
You and your violent fascist criminal apologist hypocrisy can scurry back under a rock now.
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:20 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Only if you're comfortable being inaccurate.

It remains a completely inaccurate, hyperbolic, exaggerated, hair-on-fire, frenzied, nonsensical, hysterical accusation.

For about 5 years now, a large percentage of the world has been screaming about how Trump is a fascist and a huge danger to "our norms" "our democracy" and whatever else. They've told us he's Hitler 2.0, will probably nuke random countries when bored and not getting enough engagements on his latest Tweets, etc.

The truth has remained the same the entire time. He's a self-obsessed, silly man and a con artist that he's been since the 80s or earlier. He's a self-promoter and he was elected because people were hoping he could help push back against the left's very successful takeover of this country. That pushback amounted to basically nothing.

He was hot air and promises, and fulfilled about .00001% of them, all of which will be reversed shortly.

The hysteria about him and his supporters is 99% hot air as well. It's nonsensical.

EDIT: With regard to the events of the other day? Again, hysteria. Hundreds of thousands of Trump supporters showed up, 99% stood there with flags legally in order to try to convey the "stop the steal" message and "show up and be seen", etc. They behaved far better than most leftist organized events routinely do.

1% of them (far less than that, actually) broke into the Capitol and did mild damage. The left routinely disrupts and invades the very same building, and similar buildings, and interrupts proceedings there, when they don't like a court nominee or a bill being voted on, like maybe if it slightly limits late term abortions or something.

The invading group seemed to be primarily interested in taking selfies and making a show of "this is our house and these politicians can't ignore us!" type of thing. They caused some minor damage.

The narrative about that event is 99% hysterical BS. It was a nothing. END EDIT

You'll know when someone who is actually like that comes along, and it probably won't be too far off.
Sorry man, I didn't mean to troll you. Sometimes I forget that the stupid is real.

Yes, I am sure that a Platonic ideal of fascism exists (that probably not even Mussolini would meet) and that Trump is not that.

But yeah, in the real world, yeah he's totally a fascist (and so was Mussolini).
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:37 PM   #937
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
The invading group seemed to be primarily interested in taking selfies and making a show of "this is our house and these politicians can't ignore us!" type of thing. They caused some minor damage.
Everyone there was harmless. They just wanted a tour. Some liked fire extinguishers and some had perfectly normal discussions like any other tourist would have before visiting the Capitol building.

Quote:
Bring handcuffs and zip ties to DC. No more tolerating "elected" officials who hate us and hate our country.

January 6th is the chance to restore our country.

Barging into the Capitol through multiple entryways is the surest way to have our bases covered and be sure we can apprehend these traitors
and

Quote:
the two parking lots on the south side are right next to a freeway on ramp. You can bet every dollar you have that MPDC, Capitol Police, and possibly Secret Service are going to be keeping that street and intersection clear and open. This will most likely be the primary entry and exit point for most of congress, due to its quick access to the interstate
From https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1347585191070625792 which in turn took it from thedonald.win, I believe (which is where /the_donald redditors fled when that subforum got banned there).

ErOUTsmW8AIUOea.jpg
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:48 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Only if you're comfortable being inaccurate.

.......

You'll know when someone who is actually like that comes along, and it probably won't be too far off.
If it was a group of leftists you'd want them shot at the steps. But since it's a bunch of armed Trump chumps, many of which include white nationalists, you minimize it.
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Old 8th January 2021, 01:22 PM   #939
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
By the way, what's the answer to the question?
The regime is nascent fascist, due to the GOP having been subsumed by a wannabe fascist. On top of a sketchy status quo.

The brown shirt attack on the capital may have been a net positive, in terms of permenantly clarifying, and hopefully weakening, what Trumpism is about.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:49 PM   #940
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
If it was a group of leftists you'd want them shot at the steps. But since it's a bunch of armed Trump chumps, many of which include white nationalists, you minimize it.
Correct.
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Old 8th January 2021, 04:12 PM   #941
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Correct.
You’ve upgraded from your violent fantasies of state-sanctioned murder to throwing in with violent insurrectionists and cop killers. Nice work.

To all you other forum conservatives lurking right now because you’re too cowardly to face the music for your woeful lapse in moral judgement:

This is one of you.

This is who you are.
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Old 8th January 2021, 06:55 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
You’ve upgraded from your violent fantasies of state-sanctioned murder to throwing in with violent insurrectionists and cop killers. Nice work.
Upgraded? I must have missed the part where he wasn't this way before.


Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
To all you other forum conservatives lurking right now because you’re too cowardly to face the music for your woeful lapse in moral judgement:

This is one of you.

This is who you are.
I'll be a little kinder than you. I don't really regard Skeptic Tank as an actual "conservative." He and those like him have been aided and abetted by "conservatives," of course, but he's not who they are. Those like ST just count as either among their allies or as willing pawns to be used by them, depending on the "conservative" in question and they're quite fine with that. That's who they are.

Actual conservatives, of course, reject such.
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Old 8th January 2021, 07:30 PM   #943
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Let's not forget that these humble protestors that just wanted to tour Congress injured over 50 police officers, one of them so seriously that he died.
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Old 9th January 2021, 01:13 AM   #944
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According to this White House staffer, people in the White House have just realised that the answer to the question in the title of this thread is "yes"
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Old 9th January 2021, 03:01 AM   #945
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
do you get points for doing the Right Thing when you have run out of Wrong Things to do?
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What would Plato do?
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Old 9th January 2021, 03:26 AM   #946
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
From the anonymous interviewee in that piece:

Quote:
“I went through Access Hollywood, Charlottesville — all of these insane things. There’s some degree of growing accustomed to the craziness. It’s not like my heart is racing, like, Oh, God, how am I supposed to react to this? It’s just more that I’m depressed. For people who devoted years of their lives to dealing with the insanity in an attempt to advance a policy agenda that you believe in, all of that has been wiped out. The legacy of the Trump administration is going to be that the president sparked an insurrection and people died because he tried his best to not abide by the Constitution and the tradition of a peaceful transition of power that’s been the norm since our founding. Nothing else is even going to be a side note.”
I'm trying to find sympathy, but I'm all out. They were the frogs in Trump's water kettle who didn't either believe or care when told that the water was boiling. If you got burns now, then boo-ing-hoo.
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Old 9th January 2021, 03:35 AM   #947
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay here's a half serious/half sarcastic question.

If you directly asked Trump if he was fascist, either using the exact word or using the definition... what would he say?

Because I wouldn't be surprised at all if some Trump-speak mush-mouth mumbling that amounted to "Yes" would be his answer.

ETA: Cleaned up the language a little for clarity.
"I'm the least fascist person you know!"

*checks others*

"Fascism is a bad thing, right?"
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Old 9th January 2021, 03:37 AM   #948
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Only if you're comfortable being inaccurate.

It remains a completely inaccurate, hyperbolic, exaggerated, hair-on-fire, frenzied, nonsensical, hysterical accusation.

For about 5 years now, a large percentage of the world has been screaming about how Trump is a fascist and a huge danger to "our norms" "our democracy" and whatever else. They've told us he's Hitler 2.0, will probably nuke random countries when bored and not getting enough engagements on his latest Tweets, etc.

The truth has remained the same the entire time. He's a self-obsessed, silly man and a con artist that he's been since the 80s or earlier. He's a self-promoter and he was elected because people were hoping he could help push back against the left's very successful takeover of this country. That pushback amounted to basically nothing.

He was hot air and promises, and fulfilled about .00001% of them, all of which will be reversed shortly.

The hysteria about him and his supporters is 99% hot air as well. It's nonsensical.

EDIT: With regard to the events of the other day? Again, hysteria. Hundreds of thousands of Trump supporters showed up, 99% stood there with flags legally in order to try to convey the "stop the steal" message and "show up and be seen", etc. They behaved far better than most leftist organized events routinely do.

1% of them (far less than that, actually) broke into the Capitol and did mild damage. The left routinely disrupts and invades the very same building, and similar buildings, and interrupts proceedings there, when they don't like a court nominee or a bill being voted on, like maybe if it slightly limits late term abortions or something.

The invading group seemed to be primarily interested in taking selfies and making a show of "this is our house and these politicians can't ignore us!" type of thing. They caused some minor damage.

The narrative about that event is 99% hysterical BS. It was a nothing. END EDIT

You'll know when someone who is actually like that comes along, and it probably won't be too far off.
You forgot, "P.S I am totally not a fascist."
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Old 9th January 2021, 06:33 AM   #949
Mader Levap
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
You forgot, "P.S I am totally not a fascist."
No, he is fascist and proud of it. I am not sarcastic and I mean it literally. Check his posting history.
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Old 9th January 2021, 03:15 PM   #950
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Senior Trump Official: We Were Wrong, He's a Fascist

Quote:
“This is confirmation of so much that everyone has said for years now — things that a lot of us thought were hyperbolic. We’d say, ‘Trump’s not a fascist,’ or ‘He’s not a wannabe dictator.’ Now, it’s like, ‘Well, what do you even say in response to that now?’”

For four years, people like this official — lifelong Republican operatives — have convinced themselves that Trump’s obvious faults were worth tolerating if it meant implementing a conservative policy agenda. These officials believed the benefits of remaking the courts with conservative justices, or passing tax reform, outweighed the risks that a Trump presidency posed to democracy and to the reputation of the country in the world. Now, at the 11th hour, with 12 days left before Joe Biden is sworn into office, it’s clear to some that it was always a delusion.

Edited by Agatha:  Trimmed for rule 4
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Last edited by Agatha; 11th January 2021 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 27th February 2021, 03:51 PM   #951
Squeegee Beckenheim
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https://twitter.com/BJacksonWrites/s...96825680949251

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This is the CPAC stage design below. It is a rune which was used by the SS.

This is the stage from which @tedcruz screeched “freedom.”

(Image via @dailybeanspod)
Images embedded in tweet. They're not even vaguely trying to be subtle any more.

And, yes, this isn't strictly speaking the Trump regime, but it seemed like it fit in this thread nonetheless.
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Old 27th February 2021, 05:05 PM   #952
PhantomWolf
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/BJacksonWrites/s...96825680949251



Images embedded in tweet. They're not even vaguely trying to be subtle any more.

And, yes, this isn't strictly speaking the Trump regime, but it seemed like it fit in this thread nonetheless.
While I am positive that the response will be "It's purely coincidental" I would have thought that if you were going to use a prominent shape that you would first do a quick check to make sure that it doesn't have meaning aside from what you want it to mean.

A quick Google search would have discovered this.

Now having said that, the use that the Nazis had for this symbol seems a much closer match to any other meaning. This was used for the "Central Office for Race and Settlement" which controlled so-called "race unity" and is prominent amongst marks used by Neo-Nazis to indicate White Racial Unity.

The rune itself is Odal, the letter "O", and means "Nobility", but can also be used to symbolize "lineage", "(noble) race", "descent", and "kind".

Snopes.com currently has this as "Unproven"
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Old 27th February 2021, 05:51 PM   #953
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Even if they are using nazi symbols they are not fascists because they do not advocate fascism.
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Old 27th February 2021, 06:05 PM   #954
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Even if they are using nazi symbols they are not fascists because they do not advocate fascism.
Sure. They just advocate most of the things that make fascism a bad thing. Big distinction there.

With that said, the group that they're pandering to has a problematic past with obviously intentional Nazi symbol usage. Not much reasonable reason to treat this as coincidental. It could have been coincidental *this* time, of course, but such is notably less likely than intentional.
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Old 27th February 2021, 06:14 PM   #955
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I still think the title of this thread is a hilarious exercise in self negation.
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Old 27th February 2021, 06:17 PM   #956
Aridas
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I still think the title of this thread is a hilarious exercise in self negation.
In that Trump failed to successfully turn the US into a fascist country?
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Old 27th February 2021, 06:18 PM   #957
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Sure. They just advocate most of the things that make fascism a bad thing. Big distinction there.

With that said, the group that they're pandering to has a problematic past with obviously intentional Nazi symbol usage. Not much reasonable reason to treat this as coincidental. It could have been coincidental *this* time, of course, but such is notably less likely than intentional.
That is a good point. Yes, they advocate the bad thing. But fascism isn't what it does, it is whether it adheres to a philosophy.
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Old 27th February 2021, 06:24 PM   #958
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Even if they are using nazi symbols they are not fascists because they do not advocate fascism.
Are you sure about that?

Far-Right - Check
Authoritarian - Check
Ultranationalism - America First? Check
Dictatorial power - Trump for life? Check
Forcible suppression of opposition - Voter suppression, would love to have a one-party rule? Check
Strong regimentation of society - Opposes anyone that is not white, Christian, and hetro. Check
Strong regimentation of the economy - Okay so they are missing this one, currently

Seems to me that if it quacks and floats, you might want to at least consider checking to see if its really a duck.
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Old 27th February 2021, 06:28 PM   #959
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
In that Trump failed to successfully turn the US into a fascist country?
He was never trying, but no.

Also, "failed to successfully" is redundant.
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Old 27th February 2021, 07:39 PM   #960
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As someone said in that link... "This does not happen by accident. This had to be approved by a mess of people. They didn't just show up on event day and slap it together. If 'this' is an accident? Someone should be fired so hard it'll look like they were shot out of a cannon."

I doubt it was deliberate by the GOP, unless some individual on the design team did it off his own bat.
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