Inauguration Day 20 Jan 2021 - Page 6

Stacyhs · 21st January 2021, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

A quick review will reveal my post begins as a reply to another. How I begin or end depends on where I intend to go within that post as my personal literary choice. You may be a bit behind as the response and the hypothetical was not addressed to you. You can choose to like it or not but there it is.

I can feel something from your multiple replies to my posts that seems like a seething desire to scorn a Trump supporter. By all means feel free to play. I'm not here at the ICF as a Conservative because I fear debate....

I voted Trump in 2016, 2020, and I'll likely vote for him in 2024 if he runs.

Let me see if I can muster up some surprise.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

Nope.

Trebuchet · 21st January 2021, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Let me see if I can muster up some surprise.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

Nope.

Edited by Agatha:

Removed personalisation

Dr. Keith · 21st January 2021, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

A quick review will reveal my post begins as a reply to another. How I begin or end depends on where I intend to go within that post as my personal literary choice. You may be a bit behind as the response and the hypothetical was not addressed to you. You can choose to like it or not but there it is.

Lying is a literary choice now?

I think you could make a case that it is a lifestyle choice, but probably not one I would aspire to.

Quote:

I can feel something from your multiple replies to my posts that seems like a seething desire to scorn a Trump supporter. By all means feel free to play. I'm not here at the ICF as a Conservative because I fear debate....

No, I have no desire to scorn you. And I don't really think you intend to debate in an honest way. Especially since you seem to think lying is a literary choice.

Quote:

I voted Trump in 2016, 2020, and I'll likely vote for him in 2024 if he runs.

And there is another reason I don't expect the truth to matter much to you. I don't intend to debate with someone who believes alternative facts and thinks lying is the best way to start a post. But I may still step in to point out when I see post with lies in it. Not always, that would be too exhausting, but occasionally, if I have the time.

Athyrio · 21st January 2021, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bubba

Meanwhile, in other inauguration day news....

‘We Are Ungovernable’

C'mon, man - trust the plan.

So plan C didn't work either. What are y'all up to now? Are we at plan D, E, or F yet?

Stacyhs · 21st January 2021, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Lying is a literary choice now?

I think you could make a case that it is a lifestyle choice, but probably not one I would aspire to.

No, I have no desire to scorn you. And I don't really think you intend to debate in an honest way. Especially since you seem to think lying is a literary choice.

And there is another reason I don't expect the truth to matter much to you. I don't intend to debate with someone who believes alternative facts and thinks lying is the best way to start a post. But I may still step in to point out when I see post with lies in it. Not always, that would be too exhausting, but occasionally, if I have the time.

This isn't exactly surprising when he plans to support Trump who is now on record for having told over 30,000 lies or misleading statements during his time in office.

Pacal · 21st January 2021, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bubba

Meanwhile, in other inauguration day news....

Quote:

January 20, 2021

Antifa in Seattle and Portland Smash Property, Oppose Biden and Police:
‘We Are Ungovernable’

https://www.theepochtimes.com/antifa...g-2021-01-21-1

‘We Are Ungovernable’

I suppose the Epoch Times may actually tell the truth sometimes, (rarely), but I would not count on it.

Referring to them has a source does you no good Bubba.

Trebuchet · 21st January 2021, 04:24 PM

Interesting how much faith Bubba puts in a decidedly non-Christian Chinese cult.

Resume · 21st January 2021, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

This isn't exactly surprising when he plans to support Trump who is now on record for having told over 30,000 lies or misleading statements during his time in office.

Not to mention inciting a mob of seditionists who stormed the Capitol building with the intent of overturning a legal, democratic election, and elements of which wanted to murder elected officials for the crime of not being trump enough.

So there's that too.

acbytesla · 21st January 2021, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal

It's a statement of fact.

Which was my point. That Trump has lowered the bar so much that anyone who isn't him brings tears to people's eyes.

How rich do you think Joe is?

acbytesla · 21st January 2021, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I wonder if there is a difference between hiring/placing the best qualified person for the job regardless of skin color as opposed to the best qualified person of a certain skin color for that job.

Seems that one would attain the best person for the job without race being a factor and the other way makes the person a "token" position for their particular race. Which of the two would seem more racist to you?

Or viewed another way. Say we take out a few hiring ads in a local paper.

One ad reads: "Seeking qualified individuals for specific job. All applications considered regardless of race."

To me, this first ad would be the way to go. Skin color is not considered.

And the other: "Seeking qualified White person for specific job. Other races need not apply."

Yikes!

Does one of those seem racist to you?

Or yet another: "Seeking qualified Black person for specific job. Other races need not apply."

Yikes!

To me only the first ad was acceptable as non racist. How you view the others is up to you I suppose.

Setting an example of token positions sends a message and it is akin to two of those hypothetical ads I find unacceptable for the same reasons.

What makes one qualified? My experience is there are a lot of people of color that are simply denied opportunities because of their color. Does a degree from an Ivy league school make one more qualified then if you graduated from Howard or Grambling?

I worked in the Tech sector for 30 years and the number of African Americans I worked with could be counted on 2 hands. I remember applying for the same position as an African American friend of mine. He was far smarter than me and yet I got the job. The only explanation for that was his color. Not that the people doing the hiring were deliberately racist, just that they chose the person whom they were comfortable with. The person who looked like them.

Minoosh · 21st January 2021, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I can feel something from your multiple replies to my posts that seems like a seething desire to scorn a Trump supporter. By all means feel free to play. I'm not here at the ICF as a Conservative because I fear debate....

As I see it, it's not personalization to contradict a lie. Dr. Keith made a factual statement and then you get to act scorned because by implication he's calling you a liar when you were, in fact, lying.

I think it's a reasonable inference that you were probably lying because "conservatives" here overwhelmingly favor dishonest tactics.

ETA: Played with word choice.

Minoosh · 21st January 2021, 05:46 PM

Fortunately the presidential nominees were both old white men; you don't want to go overboard with diversity.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 22nd January 2021, 02:00 AM

It's been fun over the last couple of days to watch Trump supporters (including senator Rand Paul) being outraged over Biden attacking them in his inauguration speech, when what Biden actually condemned was white supremacists.

Saying a little more than they intended, perhaps.

The Great Zaganza · 22nd January 2021, 02:09 AM

The best thing to do it to ignore them - it's the one thing they can't deal with.

trustbutverify · 22nd January 2021, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Bubba

Meanwhile, in other inauguration day news....

‘We Are Ungovernable’

I read somewhere on the internet that those were actually QAnonists masquerading as antifa. Classic false flag.

JoeMorgue · 22nd January 2021, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Athyrio

C'mon, man - trust the plan.

So plan C didn't work either. What are y'all up to now? Are we at plan D, E, or F yet?

Dr. Evil : Our early attempts at a tractor beam went through several preparations. Preparations A through G were a complete failure. But now, ladies and gentlemen, we finally have a working tractor beam, which we shall call... Preparation H.

[Scott snickers]

Dr. Evil : What?

Scott Evil : Why don't you just call it operation ass-cream, you ass.

Dr. Evil : I'm sorry, did you say you want some ice cream?

Scott Evil : Yes, I'd love some chocolate ass-cream.

Dr. Evil : Perhaps later.

Number 2 : Dr. Evil, I love your plan.

Dr. Evil : You do?

Frau Farbissina : Yah. It's a really good plan.

Dr. Evil : Yes Frau, on the whole Preparation H feels good.

[Scott resumes snickering]

Dr. Evil : What is it now?

Scott Evil : No, I totally agree with you. Preparation H does feel good... on the hole.

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I wonder if there is a difference between hiring/placing the best qualified person for the job regardless of skin color as opposed to the best qualified person of a certain skin color for that job.

Seems that one would attain the best person for the job without race being a factor and the other way makes the person a "token" position for their particular race. Which of the two would seem more racist to you?

Or viewed another way. Say we take out a few hiring ads in a local paper.

One ad reads: "Seeking qualified individuals for specific job. All applications considered regardless of race."

To me, this first ad would be the way to go. Skin color is not considered.

And the other: "Seeking qualified White person for specific job. Other races need not apply."

Yikes!

Does one of those seem racist to you?

Or yet another: "Seeking qualified Black person for specific job. Other races need not apply."

Yikes!

To me only the first ad was acceptable as non racist. How you view the others is up to you I suppose.

Setting an example of token positions sends a message and it is akin to two of those hypothetical ads I find unacceptable for the same reasons.

This is what unconscious "systemic" racism looks like.
It's not always evil, not even intentional.
But it's effects linger. Generationaly.

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Oh, they have rationalizations

.

Q has the flu, and has delayed the coup. They'll try again on March 20th.

Biden wasn't really sworn in, Trump will continue as "shadow president".

Biden is Q.

I'm just wondering how many people will stick with them. Like when a sect gathers in the corn field on the date they've been anticipating, and the mothership doesn't appear.

The problem is QAnon is so inclusive.
They sucked in large swaths of so many CTs/groups that previously would have at best ignored each other.
It has, as they say, a "big tent".

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 08:44 AM

Still scrolling down...

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

True, but a correct beginning to the hypothetical.

No. You're looking at it from inside.
"See the whole board."

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bubba

Meanwhile, in other inauguration day news....

‘We Are Ungovernable’

Brah... I'd love a more reliable source.
Please tell me it was more than eight protesters and $6,000 in damage.

And hey... welcome back. Gonna stick around? Lots of q crap to dig up and compost. Lend a hand?

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

A quick review will reveal my post begins as a reply to another. How I begin or end depends on where I intend to go within that post as my personal literary choice. You may be a bit behind as the response and the hypothetical was not addressed to you. You can choose to like it or not but there it is.

I can feel something from your multiple replies to my posts that seems like a seething desire to scorn a Trump supporter. By all means feel free to play. I'm not here at the ICF as a Conservative because I fear debate....

I voted Trump in 2016, 2020, and I'll likely vote for him in 2024 if he runs.

Uh... what's the ICF?

*checks keyboard* nope, not getting it.

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Interesting how much faith Bubba puts in a decidedly non-Christian Chinese cult.

I thought they were the poster boys for the "war on c (sorry) Christianity".
See... poison gas one subway train... and everyone turns against you. Oops.

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

What makes one qualified? My experience is there are a lot of people of color that are simply denied opportunities because of their color. Does a degree from an Ivy league school make one more qualified then if you graduated from Howard or Grambling?

I worked in the Tech sector for 30 years and the number of African Americans I worked with could be counted on 2 hands. I remember applying for the same position as an African American friend of mine. He was far smarter than me and yet I got the job. The only explanation for that was his color. Not that the people doing the hiring were deliberately racist, just that they chose the person whom they were comfortable with. The person who looked like them.

Thats the core of what my first reply a few posts upthread meant. It's unconscious and systemic. Not evil, but "soft" racism all the same.

And I really dont want a seven week back and forth with no resolution just explaining that. As would be expected.

"See the whole board."

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Fortunately the presidential nominees were both old white men; you don't want to go overboard with diversity.

Yeah, someone (?) upthread desired only young folk to govern.
As an almost oldie, I see both the upside and the downside.
I lean towards the younger side (in moderation).

Cavemonster · 22nd January 2021, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

I am glad our mockery about you being gone for x weeks after 20 Jan caused you to be back so quickly after your dreams dashed.

It is pretty much first time I agree with ChrisBFRPKY, at least as he wrote. I consider quotas, gender parity, etc as feel-good measures that won't actually do anything except fulfilling ideological wankery of left.

Actual problem is equality (or rather lack of it) of opportunity, lack of social mobility, increasing wealth inequality etc. Gender/race/whatever quotas are, at best, small pink bandaid on gaping wound.

Most jobs (And especially elected political positions) involve a lot of qualities for qualification that are incommensurate.

To say "who is the most qualified" past a certain point, tends to involve a fair amount of subjective calls.

Let's imagine we had no active racism in the world. No one hates or judges based on the color of skin, people are trying to be chill and objective, but otherwise the world looks like it does right now.

I think we still have a problem because even absent active racial animosity, people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background. When you get into the subjective realm, as all hiring does, those gut feelings even with a best effort to be objective, are going tofall along race lines to some extent. Who feels likely to "fit in" in the office culture? Someone from the same culture.

People also get jobs because of people they know. People their family knows, people they met through school growing up or through college, people who lived in their neighborhood.

But our neighborhoods tend to break around race lines. So do our schools. And of course families, duh.

And there are racial disparities with who is in a hiring position. We don't need to analyze how we got here or argue about how it came to be to recognize that there are disparities along race lines of who runs companies, who is in a hiring position in lucrative careers, and yes, who is in political office.

The point is that even without any active racism, the system is set up in such a way that a sincere attempt at meritocracy and "ignoring race" would still inevitably favor people of the same race as the people already holding power and influence to a greater degree. That's why I don't have too much of a problem with recognizing race among the many incommensurate qualities. Failing to do so is a compounding disadvantage for peope who have been historically marginalized.

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

It's been fun over the last couple of days to watch Trump supporters (including senator Rand Paul) being outraged over Biden attacking them in his inauguration speech, when what Biden actually condemned was white supremacists.

Saying a little more than they intended, perhaps.

Oh please, gift us a link to highlights if you have any.

He's such an ******* tool (it's generational, I see).

Edited by Agatha:

Edited for rule 10

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

I read somewhere on the internet that those were actually QAnonists masquerading as antifa. Classic false flag.

I read that as well... just now.
"People are saying!"

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

Most jobs (And especially elected political positions) involve a lot of qualities for qualification that are incommensurate.

To say "who is the most qualified" past a certain point, tends to involve a fair amount of subjective calls.

Let's imagine we had no active racism in the world. No one hates or judges based on the color of skin, people are trying to be chill and objective, but otherwise the world looks like it does right now.

I think we still have a problem because even absent active racial animosity, people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background. When you get into the subjective realm, as all hiring does, those gut feelings even with a best effort to be objective, are going tofall along race lines to some extent. Who feels likely to "fit in" in the office culture? Someone from the same culture.

People also get jobs because of people they know. People their family knows, people they met through school growing up or through college, people who lived in their neighborhood.

But our neighborhoods tend to break around race lines. So do our schools. And of course families, duh.

And there are racial disparities with who is in a hiring position. We don't need to analyze how we got here or argue about how it came to be to recognize that there are disparities along race lines of who runs companies, who is in a hiring position in lucrative careers, and yes, who is in political office.

The point is that even without any active racism, the system is set up in such a way that a sincere attempt at meritocracy and "ignoring race" would still inevitably favor people of the same race as the people already holding power and influence to a greater degree. That's why I don't have too much of a problem with recognizing race among the many incommensurate qualities. Failing to do so is a compounding disadvantage for peope who have been historically marginalized.

Well put.

Mader Levap · 22nd January 2021, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

Let's imagine we had no active racism in the world. No one hates or judges based on the color of skin, people are trying to be chill and objective, but otherwise the world looks like it does right now.

I think we still have a problem because even absent active racial animosity, people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background. When you get into the subjective realm, as all hiring does, those gut feelings even with a best effort to be objective, are going tofall along race lines to some extent. Who feels likely to "fit in" in the office culture? Someone from the same culture. (...)

While I agree some sort of quota would address this issue...

...I will say that in my opinion there are more pressing issues than "people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background".

trustbutverify · 22nd January 2021, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP

I read that as well... just now.
"People are saying!"

I just read some guy on the internet saying he read it too... so it's not just me.

Cavemonster · 22nd January 2021, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

While I agree some sort of quota would address this issue...

...I will say that in my opinion there are more pressing issues than "people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background".

Those aren't the issues directly, they're just some parts of a long chain of seemingly benign circumstances that will result in white dudes hiring other white dudes.

There's not much that can be done about those less tangible evaluations and biases. That's why I think that correcting somewhere else in the process makes sense.

It's why race blindness is going to favor the race that's the majority and happens to already be in positions of power.

ChrisBFRPKY · 24th January 2021, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Lying is a literary choice now?

I think you could make a case that it is a lifestyle choice, but probably not one I would aspire to.

No, I have no desire to scorn you. And I don't really think you intend to debate in an honest way. Especially since you seem to think lying is a literary choice.

And there is another reason I don't expect the truth to matter much to you. I don't intend to debate with someone who believes alternative facts and thinks lying is the best way to start a post. But I may still step in to point out when I see post with lies in it. Not always, that would be too exhausting, but occasionally, if I have the time.

Please feel free to point out any lie within my post by quoting it and placing highlites. After which we can have a discussion of your objections and how they may or may not apply.

Please be clear and to the point with your concerns for all to see.

ChrisBFRPKY · 24th January 2021, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP

Uh... what's the ICF?

*checks keyboard* nope, not getting it.

Sorry, it's what I get for having an overactive index finger and not taking the time to proofread a post. *ISF

Dr. Keith · 26th January 2021, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Please feel free to point out any lie within my post by quoting it and placing highlites. After which we can have a discussion of your objections and how they may or may not apply.

Please be clear and to the point with your concerns for all to see.

Sure, but I already did:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I wonder if there is a difference between hiring/placing the best qualified person for the job regardless of skin color as opposed to the best qualified person of a certain skin color for that job.

This is a lie. You do not in fact wonder. You admitted as much.

Based on your posting history I believe it would be more honest of you to say:

I believe there is an important difference between hiring/placing the best qualified person for the job regardless of skin color as opposed to the best qualified person of a certain skin color for that job.

This appears to be a stylistic choice of yours. It makes your posts less clear. Maybe that is your intent, I do not know. But, the cloak of lying for stylistic purposes is hardly a shield against criticism of both form and function.

Skeptic Ginger · 26th January 2021, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal

It's a pretty sad statement on where we are right now that the appointment of a centre-right rich old white man as president has people in tears but I guess we should be thankful for small mercies at the moment. it could have been a lot worse.

I shall repeat what another said because it needs repeating over and over.

You frame* an elected official who won by more than 6 million votes, "appointed". No, Biden was elected.

And as for the "rich old white man", no, that's who we got rid of. (And yes, I meant how I framed that.)

*Frame as in how one words something to convey a message.

Stacyhs · 27th January 2021, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I shall repeat what another said because it needs repeating over and over.

You frame* an elected official who won by more than 6 7 million votes, "appointed". No, Biden was elected.

And as for the "rich old white man", no, that's who we got rid of. (And yes, I meant how I framed that.)

*Frame as in how one words something to convey a message.

FTFY

Susheel · 27th January 2021, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP

I thought they were the poster boys for the "war on c (sorry) Christianity".
See... poison gas one subway train... and everyone turns against you. Oops.

If I remember right, that wasn't eh Falun Gong...it was another cult, Japanese this time: Aum Sin Ri Kyu (If I remember correctly). Or was that some martial art technique?

erwinl · 27th January 2021, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

If I remember right, that wasn't eh Falun Gong...it was another cult, Japanese this time: Aum Sin Ri Kyu (If I remember correctly). Or was that some martial art technique?

Those were the ones.

Archie Gemmill Goal · 27th January 2021, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

How rich do you think Joe is?

Richer than pretty much everyone who voted for him?

Archie Gemmill Goal · 27th January 2021, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I shall repeat what another said because it needs repeating over and over.

You frame* an elected official who won by more than 6 million votes, "appointed". No, Biden was elected.

And as for the "rich old white man", no, that's who we got rid of. (And yes, I meant how I framed that.)

*Frame as in how one words something to convey a message.

He was elected on election day, and appointed President on inauguration day.

And yes he is a rich old white man.

21st January 2021, 03:26 PM	#203
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,552	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY A quick review will reveal my post begins as a reply to another. How I begin or end depends on where I intend to go within that post as my personal literary choice. You may be a bit behind as the response and the hypothetical was not addressed to you. You can choose to like it or not but there it is. Lying is a literary choice now? I think you could make a case that it is a lifestyle choice, but probably not one I would aspire to. Quote: I can feel something from your multiple replies to my posts that seems like a seething desire to scorn a Trump supporter. By all means feel free to play. I'm not here at the ICF as a Conservative because I fear debate.... No, I have no desire to scorn you. And I don't really think you intend to debate in an honest way. Especially since you seem to think lying is a literary choice. Quote: I voted Trump in 2016, 2020, and I'll likely vote for him in 2024 if he runs. And there is another reason I don't expect the truth to matter much to you. I don't intend to debate with someone who believes alternative facts and thinks lying is the best way to start a post. But I may still step in to point out when I see post with lies in it. Not always, that would be too exhausting, but occasionally, if I have the time.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

21st January 2021, 03:43 PM	#204
Athyrio Hipster Doofus Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Nutsack, FL Posts: 2,171	Originally Posted by Bubba Meanwhile, in other inauguration day news.... ‘We Are Ungovernable’ C'mon, man - trust the plan. So plan C didn't work either. What are y'all up to now? Are we at plan D, E, or F yet?
	__________________ Knowledge is good.... Emil Faber

21st January 2021, 04:24 PM	#207
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,047	Interesting how much faith Bubba puts in a decidedly non-Christian Chinese cult.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

21st January 2021, 04:35 PM	#209
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,278	Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal It's a statement of fact. Which was my point. That Trump has lowered the bar so much that anyone who isn't him brings tears to people's eyes. How rich do you think Joe is?
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

21st January 2021, 04:50 PM	#210
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,278	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I wonder if there is a difference between hiring/placing the best qualified person for the job regardless of skin color as opposed to the best qualified person of a certain skin color for that job. Seems that one would attain the best person for the job without race being a factor and the other way makes the person a "token" position for their particular race. Which of the two would seem more racist to you? Or viewed another way. Say we take out a few hiring ads in a local paper. One ad reads: "Seeking qualified individuals for specific job. All applications considered regardless of race." To me, this first ad would be the way to go. Skin color is not considered. And the other: "Seeking qualified White person for specific job. Other races need not apply." Yikes! Does one of those seem racist to you? Or yet another: "Seeking qualified Black person for specific job. Other races need not apply." Yikes! To me only the first ad was acceptable as non racist. How you view the others is up to you I suppose. Setting an example of token positions sends a message and it is akin to two of those hypothetical ads I find unacceptable for the same reasons. What makes one qualified? My experience is there are a lot of people of color that are simply denied opportunities because of their color. Does a degree from an Ivy league school make one more qualified then if you graduated from Howard or Grambling? I worked in the Tech sector for 30 years and the number of African Americans I worked with could be counted on 2 hands. I remember applying for the same position as an African American friend of mine. He was far smarter than me and yet I got the job. The only explanation for that was his color. Not that the people doing the hiring were deliberately racist, just that they chose the person whom they were comfortable with. The person who looked like them.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

21st January 2021, 03:08 PM	#201
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,012	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY A quick review will reveal my post begins as a reply to another. How I begin or end depends on where I intend to go within that post as my personal literary choice. You may be a bit behind as the response and the hypothetical was not addressed to you. You can choose to like it or not but there it is. I can feel something from your multiple replies to my posts that seems like a seething desire to scorn a Trump supporter. By all means feel free to play. I'm not here at the ICF as a Conservative because I fear debate.... I voted Trump in 2016, 2020, and I'll likely vote for him in 2024 if he runs. Let me see if I can muster up some surprise.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................. Nope.

21st January 2021, 03:57 PM	#205
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,012	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith Lying is a literary choice now? I think you could make a case that it is a lifestyle choice, but probably not one I would aspire to. No, I have no desire to scorn you. And I don't really think you intend to debate in an honest way. Especially since you seem to think lying is a literary choice. And there is another reason I don't expect the truth to matter much to you. I don't intend to debate with someone who believes alternative facts and thinks lying is the best way to start a post. But I may still step in to point out when I see post with lies in it. Not always, that would be too exhausting, but occasionally, if I have the time. This isn't exactly surprising when he plans to support Trump who is now on record for having told over 30,000 lies or misleading statements during his time in office.

21st January 2021, 04:23 PM	#206
Pacal Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,162	Originally Posted by Bubba Meanwhile, in other inauguration day news.... Quote: January 20, 2021 Antifa in Seattle and Portland Smash Property, Oppose Biden and Police: ‘We Are Ungovernable’ https://www.theepochtimes.com/antifa...g-2021-01-21-1 ‘We Are Ungovernable’ I suppose the Epoch Times may actually tell the truth sometimes, (rarely), but I would not count on it. Referring to them has a source does you no good Bubba.

21st January 2021, 04:27 PM	#208
Resume Troublesome Passenger Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 18,838	Originally Posted by Stacyhs This isn't exactly surprising when he plans to support Trump who is now on record for having told over 30,000 lies or misleading statements during his time in office. Not to mention inciting a mob of seditionists who stormed the Capitol building with the intent of overturning a legal, democratic election, and elements of which wanted to murder elected officials for the crime of not being trump enough. So there's that too.

21st January 2021, 05:39 PM	#211
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,239	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I can feel something from your multiple replies to my posts that seems like a seething desire to scorn a Trump supporter. By all means feel free to play. I'm not here at the ICF as a Conservative because I fear debate.... As I see it, it's not personalization to contradict a lie. Dr. Keith made a factual statement and then you get to act scorned because by implication he's calling you a liar when you were, in fact, lying. I think it's a reasonable inference that you were probably lying because "conservatives" here overwhelmingly favor dishonest tactics. ETA: Played with word choice.
	Last edited by Minoosh; 21st January 2021 at 05:43 PM.

21st January 2021, 05:46 PM	#212
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,239	Fortunately the presidential nominees were both old white men; you don't want to go overboard with diversity.

22nd January 2021, 02:00 AM	#213
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,250	It's been fun over the last couple of days to watch Trump supporters (including senator Rand Paul) being outraged over Biden attacking them in his inauguration speech, when what Biden actually condemned was white supremacists. Saying a little more than they intended, perhaps.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

22nd January 2021, 02:09 AM	#214
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,670	The best thing to do it to ignore them - it's the one thing they can't deal with.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

22nd January 2021, 07:38 AM	#215
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,885	Originally Posted by Bubba Meanwhile, in other inauguration day news.... ‘We Are Ungovernable’ I read somewhere on the internet that those were actually QAnonists masquerading as antifa. Classic false flag.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

22nd January 2021, 07:40 AM	#216
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,684	Originally Posted by Athyrio C'mon, man - trust the plan. So plan C didn't work either. What are y'all up to now? Are we at plan D, E, or F yet? Dr. Evil : Our early attempts at a tractor beam went through several preparations. Preparations A through G were a complete failure. But now, ladies and gentlemen, we finally have a working tractor beam, which we shall call... Preparation H. [Scott snickers] Dr. Evil : What? Scott Evil : Why don't you just call it operation ass-cream, you ass. Dr. Evil : I'm sorry, did you say you want some ice cream? Scott Evil : Yes, I'd love some chocolate ass-cream. Dr. Evil : Perhaps later. Number 2 : Dr. Evil, I love your plan. Dr. Evil : You do? Frau Farbissina : Yah. It's a really good plan. Dr. Evil : Yes Frau, on the whole Preparation H feels good. [Scott resumes snickering] Dr. Evil : What is it now? Scott Evil : No, I totally agree with you. Preparation H does feel good... on the hole.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

22nd January 2021, 08:32 AM	#217
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I wonder if there is a difference between hiring/placing the best qualified person for the job regardless of skin color as opposed to the best qualified person of a certain skin color for that job. Seems that one would attain the best person for the job without race being a factor and the other way makes the person a "token" position for their particular race. Which of the two would seem more racist to you? Or viewed another way. Say we take out a few hiring ads in a local paper. One ad reads: "Seeking qualified individuals for specific job. All applications considered regardless of race." To me, this first ad would be the way to go. Skin color is not considered. And the other: "Seeking qualified White person for specific job. Other races need not apply." Yikes! Does one of those seem racist to you? Or yet another: "Seeking qualified Black person for specific job. Other races need not apply." Yikes! To me only the first ad was acceptable as non racist. How you view the others is up to you I suppose. Setting an example of token positions sends a message and it is akin to two of those hypothetical ads I find unacceptable for the same reasons. This is what unconscious "systemic" racism looks like. It's not always evil, not even intentional. But it's effects linger. Generationaly.
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 08:40 AM	#218
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper Oh, they have rationalizations . Q has the flu, and has delayed the coup. They'll try again on March 20th. Biden wasn't really sworn in, Trump will continue as "shadow president". Biden is Q. I'm just wondering how many people will stick with them. Like when a sect gathers in the corn field on the date they've been anticipating, and the mothership doesn't appear. The problem is QAnon is so inclusive. They sucked in large swaths of so many CTs/groups that previously would have at best ignored each other. It has, as they say, a "big tent".
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 08:44 AM	#219
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Still scrolling down... Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY True, but a correct beginning to the hypothetical. No. You're looking at it from inside. "See the whole board."
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 08:57 AM	#220
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by Bubba Meanwhile, in other inauguration day news.... ‘We Are Ungovernable’ Brah... I'd love a more reliable source. Please tell me it was more than eight protesters and $6,000 in damage. And hey... welcome back. Gonna stick around? Lots of q crap to dig up and compost. Lend a hand?
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 09:00 AM	#221
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY A quick review will reveal my post begins as a reply to another. How I begin or end depends on where I intend to go within that post as my personal literary choice. You may be a bit behind as the response and the hypothetical was not addressed to you. You can choose to like it or not but there it is. I can feel something from your multiple replies to my posts that seems like a seething desire to scorn a Trump supporter. By all means feel free to play. I'm not here at the ICF as a Conservative because I fear debate.... I voted Trump in 2016, 2020, and I'll likely vote for him in 2024 if he runs. Uh... what's the ICF? checks keyboard nope, not getting it.
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 09:06 AM	#222
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Interesting how much faith Bubba puts in a decidedly non-Christian Chinese cult. I thought they were the poster boys for the "war on c (sorry) Christianity". See... poison gas one subway train... and everyone turns against you. Oops.
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000. Last edited by Jim_MDP; 22nd January 2021 at 09:22 AM.

22nd January 2021, 09:12 AM	#223
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by acbytesla What makes one qualified? My experience is there are a lot of people of color that are simply denied opportunities because of their color. Does a degree from an Ivy league school make one more qualified then if you graduated from Howard or Grambling? I worked in the Tech sector for 30 years and the number of African Americans I worked with could be counted on 2 hands. I remember applying for the same position as an African American friend of mine. He was far smarter than me and yet I got the job. The only explanation for that was his color. Not that the people doing the hiring were deliberately racist, just that they chose the person whom they were comfortable with. The person who looked like them. Thats the core of what my first reply a few posts upthread meant. It's unconscious and systemic. Not evil, but "soft" racism all the same. And I really dont want a seven week back and forth with no resolution just explaining that. As would be expected. "See the whole board."
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 09:16 AM	#224
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by Minoosh Fortunately the presidential nominees were both old white men; you don't want to go overboard with diversity. Yeah, someone (?) upthread desired only young folk to govern. As an almost oldie, I see both the upside and the downside. I lean towards the younger side (in moderation).
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 09:17 AM	#225
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,518	Originally Posted by Mader Levap I am glad our mockery about you being gone for x weeks after 20 Jan caused you to be back so quickly after your dreams dashed. It is pretty much first time I agree with ChrisBFRPKY, at least as he wrote. I consider quotas, gender parity, etc as feel-good measures that won't actually do anything except fulfilling ideological wankery of left. Actual problem is equality (or rather lack of it) of opportunity, lack of social mobility, increasing wealth inequality etc. Gender/race/whatever quotas are, at best, small pink bandaid on gaping wound. Most jobs (And especially elected political positions) involve a lot of qualities for qualification that are incommensurate. To say "who is the most qualified" past a certain point, tends to involve a fair amount of subjective calls. Let's imagine we had no active racism in the world. No one hates or judges based on the color of skin, people are trying to be chill and objective, but otherwise the world looks like it does right now. I think we still have a problem because even absent active racial animosity, people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background. When you get into the subjective realm, as all hiring does, those gut feelings even with a best effort to be objective, are going tofall along race lines to some extent. Who feels likely to "fit in" in the office culture? Someone from the same culture. People also get jobs because of people they know. People their family knows, people they met through school growing up or through college, people who lived in their neighborhood. But our neighborhoods tend to break around race lines. So do our schools. And of course families, duh. And there are racial disparities with who is in a hiring position. We don't need to analyze how we got here or argue about how it came to be to recognize that there are disparities along race lines of who runs companies, who is in a hiring position in lucrative careers, and yes, who is in political office. The point is that even without any active racism, the system is set up in such a way that a sincere attempt at meritocracy and "ignoring race" would still inevitably favor people of the same race as the people already holding power and influence to a greater degree. That's why I don't have too much of a problem with recognizing race among the many incommensurate qualities. Failing to do so is a compounding disadvantage for peope who have been historically marginalized.
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,518	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

22nd January 2021, 09:19 AM	#227
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by trustbutverify I read somewhere on the internet that those were actually QAnonists masquerading as antifa. Classic false flag. I read that as well... just now. "People are saying!"
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 09:33 AM	#228
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,021	Originally Posted by Cavemonster Most jobs (And especially elected political positions) involve a lot of qualities for qualification that are incommensurate. To say "who is the most qualified" past a certain point, tends to involve a fair amount of subjective calls. Let's imagine we had no active racism in the world. No one hates or judges based on the color of skin, people are trying to be chill and objective, but otherwise the world looks like it does right now. I think we still have a problem because even absent active racial animosity, people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background. When you get into the subjective realm, as all hiring does, those gut feelings even with a best effort to be objective, are going tofall along race lines to some extent. Who feels likely to "fit in" in the office culture? Someone from the same culture. People also get jobs because of people they know. People their family knows, people they met through school growing up or through college, people who lived in their neighborhood. But our neighborhoods tend to break around race lines. So do our schools. And of course families, duh. And there are racial disparities with who is in a hiring position. We don't need to analyze how we got here or argue about how it came to be to recognize that there are disparities along race lines of who runs companies, who is in a hiring position in lucrative careers, and yes, who is in political office. The point is that even without any active racism, the system is set up in such a way that a sincere attempt at meritocracy and "ignoring race" would still inevitably favor people of the same race as the people already holding power and influence to a greater degree. That's why I don't have too much of a problem with recognizing race among the many incommensurate qualities. Failing to do so is a compounding disadvantage for peope who have been historically marginalized. Well put.
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 12:54 PM	#229
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,576	Originally Posted by Cavemonster Let's imagine we had no active racism in the world. No one hates or judges based on the color of skin, people are trying to be chill and objective, but otherwise the world looks like it does right now. I think we still have a problem because even absent active racial animosity, people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background. When you get into the subjective realm, as all hiring does, those gut feelings even with a best effort to be objective, are going tofall along race lines to some extent. Who feels likely to "fit in" in the office culture? Someone from the same culture. (...) While I agree some sort of quota would address this issue... ...I will say that in my opinion there are more pressing issues than "people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background".
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

22nd January 2021, 03:14 PM	#230
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,885	Originally Posted by Jim_MDP I read that as well... just now. "People are saying!" I just read some guy on the internet saying he read it too... so it's not just me.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

22nd January 2021, 03:19 PM	#231
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,518	Originally Posted by Mader Levap While I agree some sort of quota would address this issue... ...I will say that in my opinion there are more pressing issues than "people tend to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background". Those aren't the issues directly, they're just some parts of a long chain of seemingly benign circumstances that will result in white dudes hiring other white dudes. There's not much that can be done about those less tangible evaluations and biases. That's why I think that correcting somewhere else in the process makes sense. It's why race blindness is going to favor the race that's the majority and happens to already be in positions of power.
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,518	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

24th January 2021, 11:27 PM	#232
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,666	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith Lying is a literary choice now? I think you could make a case that it is a lifestyle choice, but probably not one I would aspire to. No, I have no desire to scorn you. And I don't really think you intend to debate in an honest way. Especially since you seem to think lying is a literary choice. And there is another reason I don't expect the truth to matter much to you. I don't intend to debate with someone who believes alternative facts and thinks lying is the best way to start a post. But I may still step in to point out when I see post with lies in it. Not always, that would be too exhausting, but occasionally, if I have the time. Please feel free to point out any lie within my post by quoting it and placing highlites. After which we can have a discussion of your objections and how they may or may not apply. Please be clear and to the point with your concerns for all to see.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,666

24th January 2021, 11:34 PM	#233
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,666	Originally Posted by Jim_MDP Uh... what's the ICF? checks keyboard nope, not getting it. Sorry, it's what I get for having an overactive index finger and not taking the time to proofread a post. *ISF
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,666

26th January 2021, 11:31 AM	#234
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,552	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Please feel free to point out any lie within my post by quoting it and placing highlites. After which we can have a discussion of your objections and how they may or may not apply. Please be clear and to the point with your concerns for all to see. Sure, but I already did: Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I wonder if there is a difference between hiring/placing the best qualified person for the job regardless of skin color as opposed to the best qualified person of a certain skin color for that job. This is a lie. You do not in fact wonder. You admitted as much. Based on your posting history I believe it would be more honest of you to say: I believe there is an important difference between hiring/placing the best qualified person for the job regardless of skin color as opposed to the best qualified person of a certain skin color for that job. This appears to be a stylistic choice of yours. It makes your posts less clear. Maybe that is your intent, I do not know. But, the cloak of lying for stylistic purposes is hardly a shield against criticism of both form and function.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

26th January 2021, 12:09 PM	#235
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,973	Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal It's a pretty sad statement on where we are right now that the appointment of a centre-right rich old white man as president has people in tears but I guess we should be thankful for small mercies at the moment. it could have been a lot worse. I shall repeat what another said because it needs repeating over and over. You frame* an elected official who won by more than 6 million votes, "appointed". No, Biden was elected. And as for the "rich old white man", no, that's who we got rid of. (And yes, I meant how I framed that.) *Frame as in how one words something to convey a message.

27th January 2021, 12:09 AM	#236
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,012	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I shall repeat what another said because it needs repeating over and over. You frame* an elected official who won by more than 6 7 million votes, "appointed". No, Biden was elected. And as for the "rich old white man", no, that's who we got rid of. (And yes, I meant how I framed that.) *Frame as in how one words something to convey a message. FTFY

27th January 2021, 12:42 AM	#237
Susheel Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 1,756	Originally Posted by Jim_MDP I thought they were the poster boys for the "war on c (sorry) Christianity". See... poison gas one subway train... and everyone turns against you. Oops. If I remember right, that wasn't eh Falun Gong...it was another cult, Japanese this time: Aum Sin Ri Kyu (If I remember correctly). Or was that some martial art technique?
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon