Mueller Investigation pt 7 - Page 9

Fast Eddie B · 15th January 2020, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Kinda weird, since Maddow pointed out last night that he stood up in open court under oath and confessed to the charged crimes. I assume that sworn confession will be admissible at trial?

The Great Zaganza · 15th January 2020, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

Kinda weird, since Maddow pointed out last night that he stood up in open court under oath and confessed to the charged crimes. I assume that sworn confession will be admissible at trial?

At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done.
By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt.

Fast Eddie B · 15th January 2020, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done.
By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt.

I’m a bit confused.

If the judge permits him to retract his guilty plea, is that not a reset to a “not guilty plea”? And if so, is he not presumed innocent and entitled to a new trial?

I think I may need to do some research into the implications here.

Anyway, this, from USA Today:

”Pat Cotter, a former federal prosecutor, said Flynn has "little to no chance of successfully withdrawing his plea."
"He would have to show that he was somehow misinformed about the terms of the plea or what he was pleading to having done. Either that or he was not competent when he took his plea," Cotter said. "Add to that Flynn’s education, maturity and experience and it seems ridiculous for him to claim he was not fully aware of what he pleaded to."”

The Great Zaganza · 15th January 2020, 10:40 AM

It is possible that the Judge won't let him withdraw his plea.
But even if he does, Flynn has decided not to mount a defense on his indictment of lying to the FBI, and that is separate from his plea.
But, of course, he can try to appeal whatever sentence he gets.

Darat · 15th January 2020, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

It is possible that the Judge won't let him withdraw his plea.
But even if he does, Flynn has decided not to mount a defense on his indictment of lying to the FBI, and that is separate from his plea.
But, of course, he can try to appeal whatever sentence he gets.

What grounds would he have for appeal?

The Great Zaganza · 15th January 2020, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

What grounds would he have for appeal?

The FBi was sooo mean to him!

Stacyhs · 15th January 2020, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done.
By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt.

I think you hit the nail on the head; it's about getting a pardon from Trump. As long as Flynn admitted to the crimes, there was little basis for a pardon. Now Trump can claim that Flynn is an innocent victim.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 15th January 2020, 11:35 AM

Yeah, pretty much all commentators are saying that the withdrawal has an audience of one, and it's not the judge.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 18th January 2020, 04:41 AM

https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...627139587?s=20

Quote:

!!! Despite a court order, the Justice Department is holding back Special Counsel Mueller memos regarding the interviews conducted with the President’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner.
CNN and Buzzfeed won access to thousands of pages of Mueller’s witness memos.

The Great Zaganza · 18th January 2020, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...627139587?s=20

Nothing to see here.
Move along.

Skeptic Ginger · 18th January 2020, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...627139587?s=20

Trump simply ignores the law.

Stacyhs · 18th January 2020, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Trump simply ignores the law.

But, SG....Article II of the Constitution lets Trump do anything he wants!

The Great Zaganza · 31st January 2020, 11:05 PM

I wonder if Mueller would have run his Investigation and made his Report differently, had he anticipated this level of Obstruction and Deception from the Senate and White House.

My guess is that he would have refused to take the job in the first place.

Lurch · 1st February 2020, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

I wonder if Mueller would have run his Investigation and made his Report differently, had he anticipated this level of Obstruction and Deception from the Senate and White House.

My guess is that he would have refused to take the job in the first place.

Sometimes ignorance is actually a good thing.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 5th February 2020, 05:30 AM

More declassified documentation

It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee.

Segnosaur · 5th February 2020, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee.

Does seem strange.

I wonder if its simply a case where there are 1) more media outlets, that 2) are more tenacious/focused. On the other hand, the House Committees probably have a lot of responsibilities, and may not realize "Oh, this information is now available".

Minoosh · 5th February 2020, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee.

Maybe that as a private enterprise not funded by the government it can afford (literally and figuratively) to grind out these requests that would be branded a "fishing expedition" if it came from the opposing party in the House?

I suspect BuzzFeed is getting a lot of help from 1A experts telling them what to look for and that some private "angel" is financing staffer(s) devoted solely to this process.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 11th February 2020, 10:23 AM

https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/stat...16256227807232

Quote:

Prosecutors recommend up to NINE YEARS in prison for Roger Stone.

They call foreign election interference a "deadly adversary" even though Stone was never accused of working with Russians or WikiLeaks.

Article embedded in tweet.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...22206783811585

Quote:

This is a horrible and very unfair situation. The real crimes were on the other side, as nothing happens to them. Cannot allow this miscarriage of justice!

https://twitter.com/JakeBGibson/stat...71189346816000

Quote:

The DOJ is changing its sentencing recommendation for Roger Stone, according to a Senior DOJ official.
“The Department finds seven to nine years extreme, excessive and grossly disproportionate," the source said, adding the DOJ will clarify its position on sentencing later today

Huh.

Lurch · 11th February 2020, 11:37 AM

Huh, indeed. How long did some woman get for illegally casting a single vote? Compare and contrast to an operative working at a very high level indeed to impact an election?

Segnosaur · 11th February 2020, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Lurch

Huh, indeed. How long did some woman get for illegally casting a single vote? Compare and contrast to an operative working at a very high level indeed to impact an election?

Of course, Stone wasn't found guilty of working to subvert American democracy... he was found guilty of perjury (e.g. lying to congress) and witness tampering. You know, the type of crimes that we all do.

Stacyhs · 11th February 2020, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/stat...16256227807232

Article embedded in tweet.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...22206783811585

https://twitter.com/JakeBGibson/stat...71189346816000

Huh.

Are you suggesting there's a link between the DOJ's declaration that Stone's sentencing is too extreme and the Trump tweet that had been posted just hours before? I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell ya!

Aridas · 11th February 2020, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Are you suggesting there's a link between the DOJ's declaration that Stone's sentencing is too extreme and the Trump tweet that had been posted just hours before? I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell ya!

Well... sounds like Barr just took over the sentencing. Nothing to be concerned about there, given Barr's history of shutting down Mueller Report related investigations and actively working to turn the DoJ into the DoSTI (Department of Serving Trump's Interests).

The Great Zaganza · 11th February 2020, 09:50 PM

Trump and Barr are on a propaganda tour to promote a stricter separation of the White House and DoJ.

Skeptic Ginger · 11th February 2020, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Trump and Barr are on a propaganda tour to promote a stricter separation of the White House and DoJ.

In anticipation of Trump losing the election, got to fix it before a Democrat is POTUS.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 12th February 2020, 01:48 AM

There's more.

In response to the change in sentencing recommendation all four prosecutors have resigned from the case, with Jonathan Kravis resigning his job entirely

Trump has personally withdrawn his recommendation for Jessie Liu to be Treasury undesecretary, seemingly based on the Stone recommendations, as she oversaw the case (as well as Flynn, Manafort, McCabe, etc.)

Barr is reported to have personally intervened in Stone's case (as well as Flynn's)

And Trump appears to be laying the groundwork to go after the judge: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...855976449?s=20

Quote:

Is this the Judge that put Paul Manafort in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, something that not even mobster Al Capone had to endure? How did she treat Crooked Hillary Clinton? Just asking!

Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson...

Squeegee Beckenheim · 12th February 2020, 01:58 AM

Chuck Schumer has called for an investigation

a_unique_person · 12th February 2020, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

There's more.

In response to the change in sentencing recommendation all four prosecutors have resigned from the case, with Jonathan Kravis resigning his job entirely

Trump has personally withdrawn his recommendation for Jessie Liu to be Treasury undesecretary, seemingly based on the Stone recommendations, as she oversaw the case (as well as Flynn, Manafort, McCabe, etc.)

Barr is reported to have personally intervened in Stone's case (as well as Flynn's)

And Trump appears to be laying the groundwork to go after the judge: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...855976449?s=20

Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson...

Not the lesson that she thought he would learn, eh?

a_unique_person · 12th February 2020, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Chuck Schumer has called for an investigation

Schumer may as well call for World Peace.

After years of people trying to manage Trump, Trump now has a team in place that offers their first loyalty to him personally, that will enable all his whims and defend them, that fuels his most base motivations. Hold on.

Belz... · 12th February 2020, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson...

She's a ******* weakling.

Minoosh · 12th February 2020, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Well... sounds like Barr just took over the sentencing. Nothing to be concerned about there, given Barr's history of shutting down Mueller Report related investigations and actively working to turn the DoJ into the DoSTI (Department of Serving Trump's Interests).

Prediction: Barr is going to be disbarred for severe breach of ethics. This is a massive conflict of interest. He shouldn't have touched that issue with a 10-foot pole. It will be interesting if he pretends that he had nothing to do with that. Good luck with that, counselor.

Aridas · 12th February 2020, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

She's a ******* weakling.

Why weakling? It's rather looking like her whole modus operandi is pretending to be moderate and actually concerned about things for the sake of gaining and keeping power, while actually being a partisan hack. Only voting with Democrats when it doesn't make a difference, in other words.

JoeMorgue · 12th February 2020, 08:36 AM

If Susan Collins is a weakling so is Nancy Pelosi. They've both had the same actual level of effect on anything Trump has done and the difference between Collin's 'Pretend I want to stop him even though I know in the end I don't" and Pelosi' "Pretend I can stop him even though I know in the end I can't" is meaningless on any practical level.

Someone once referred to Susan Collins as someone who always has to look at the menu for a half hour before always deciding to eat what Mitch McConnell is having. Nancy Pelosi is someone who looks at the menu, knows immediately what she wants, orders it, but realizes after the fact that Mitch McConnell already ordered for the whole table and she still has to eat it. But sometime she can sarcastically clap at him.

Mitch McConnell is still picking both women's meals in both metaphors. The only difference is how much they don't like it and Mitch McConnell don't care.

Trebuchet · 12th February 2020, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Prediction: Barr is going to be disbarred for severe breach of ethics. This is a massive conflict of interest. He shouldn't have touched that issue with a 10-foot pole. It will be interesting if he pretends that he had nothing to do with that. Good luck with that, counselor.

Nixon's AG Mitchell actually wound up in prison. We can only hope.

Belz... · 12th February 2020, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

If Susan Collins is a weakling so is Nancy Pelosi. They've both had the same actual level of effect on anything Trump has done and the difference between Collin's 'Pretend I want to stop him even though I know in the end I don't" and Pelosi' "Pretend I can stop him even though I know in the end I can't" is meaningless on any practical level.

I guess the difference is one of them is only pretending to try.

JoeMorgue · 12th February 2020, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

I guess the difference is one of them is only pretending to try.

You're drowning in a rip-tide. Two lifeguards spot you. One starts sprinting toward you (In slow-mo while the theme song from Baywatch plays I'm assuming) but when he reaches the water's edge decides he'd rather let you drown. That's Susan Collins.

The other one starts to turn toward you, but when they reach the water's edge they remember they don't know how to swim and have to stand there and watch you drown. That's Nancy Pelosi.

You're drowning either way. And since a lifeguard's job is to save you from drowning the "I won't / I can't" distinction is academic.

If you won't stop Trump, you need to be voted out who will.. If you can't stop Trump you need to be voted out and replaced with someone who can.

plague311 · 12th February 2020, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

If Susan Collins is a weakling so is Nancy Pelosi. They've both had the same actual level of effect on anything Trump has done and the difference between Collin's 'Pretend I want to stop him even though I know in the end I don't" and Pelosi' "Pretend I can stop him even though I know in the end I can't" is meaningless on any practical level.

Someone once referred to Susan Collins as someone who always has to look at the menu for a half hour before always deciding to eat what Mitch McConnell is having. Nancy Pelosi is someone who looks at the menu, knows immediately what she wants, orders it, but realizes after the fact that Mitch McConnell already ordered for the whole table and she still has to eat it. But sometime she can sarcastically clap at him.

Mitch McConnell is still picking both women's meals in both metaphors. The only difference is how much they don't like it and Mitch McConnell don't care.

For the life of me I wish I could figure out what the hell this metaphor means. Pelosi did her job, which was represent her party's wishes in moving ahead with impeachment.

You've made it perfectly, and entirely clear that you were against impeachment because something, something, something Donald Trump gets re-elected. You've said it no where short of a thousand times, but not impeaching Trump for extremely impeachable behavior would be derelict. It would be asinine and it would be a failure. Collins failed in voting for removal, Pelosi didn't fail at moving forward with impeachment.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 12th February 2020, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

You're drowning in a rip-tide. Two lifeguards spot you. One starts sprinting toward you (In slow-mo while the theme song from Baywatch plays I'm assuming) but when he reaches the water's edge decides he'd rather let you drown. That's Susan Collins.

The other one starts to turn toward you, but when they reach the water's edge they remember they don't know how to swim and have to stand there and watch you drown. That's Nancy Pelosi.

You're drowning either way. And since a lifeguard's job is to save you from drowning the "I won't / I can't" distinction is academic.

If you won't stop Trump, you need to be voted out who will.. If you can't stop Trump you need to be voted out and replaced with someone who can.

Intent may not make a practical difference, but that doesn't mean that intent counts for nothing.

If someone shoots at you with a potato gun and someone shoots at you with an AK-47 the two actions are not equivalent if both people miss, even though the practical end result is identical.

JoeMorgue · 12th February 2020, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Intent may not make a practical difference.

And right now I don't care about anything that isn't a practical difference.

RecoveringYuppy · 12th February 2020, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

You've said it no where short of a thousand times, but not impeaching Trump for extremely impeachable behavior would be derelict. It would be asinine and it would be a failure.

No, it's failing to remove him form office that is derelict. Impeaching him has turned out to be a waste of time that has also contributed to winning the next election and keeping him in office. Impeachment, at least at the moment, appears to have been worse than a waste of time.

15th January 2020, 10:20 AM	#321
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 6,733	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Flynn has withdrawn his guilty plea Kinda weird, since Maddow pointed out last night that he stood up in open court under oath and confessed to the charged crimes. I assume that sworn confession will be admissible at trial?

15th January 2020, 10:23 AM	#322
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,643	Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B Kinda weird, since Maddow pointed out last night that he stood up in open court under oath and confessed to the charged crimes. I assume that sworn confession will be admissible at trial? At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done. By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

15th January 2020, 10:34 AM	#323
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 6,733	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done. By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt. I’m a bit confused. If the judge permits him to retract his guilty plea, is that not a reset to a “not guilty plea”? And if so, is he not presumed innocent and entitled to a new trial? I think I may need to do some research into the implications here. Anyway, this, from USA Today: ”Pat Cotter, a former federal prosecutor, said Flynn has "little to no chance of successfully withdrawing his plea." "He would have to show that he was somehow misinformed about the terms of the plea or what he was pleading to having done. Either that or he was not competent when he took his plea," Cotter said. "Add to that Flynn’s education, maturity and experience and it seems ridiculous for him to claim he was not fully aware of what he pleaded to."”
	Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 15th January 2020 at 10:41 AM.

15th January 2020, 10:40 AM	#324
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,643	It is possible that the Judge won't let him withdraw his plea. But even if he does, Flynn has decided not to mount a defense on his indictment of lying to the FBI, and that is separate from his plea. But, of course, he can try to appeal whatever sentence he gets.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

15th January 2020, 11:19 AM	#325
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,918	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza It is possible that the Judge won't let him withdraw his plea. But even if he does, Flynn has decided not to mount a defense on his indictment of lying to the FBI, and that is separate from his plea. But, of course, he can try to appeal whatever sentence he gets. What grounds would he have for appeal?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

15th January 2020, 11:27 AM	#326
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,643	Originally Posted by Darat What grounds would he have for appeal? The FBi was sooo mean to him!
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

15th January 2020, 11:29 AM	#327
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,002	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done. By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt. I think you hit the nail on the head; it's about getting a pardon from Trump. As long as Flynn admitted to the crimes, there was little basis for a pardon. Now Trump can claim that Flynn is an innocent victim.

15th January 2020, 11:35 AM	#328
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,246	Yeah, pretty much all commentators are saying that the withdrawal has an audience of one, and it's not the judge.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

18th January 2020, 04:41 AM	#329
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,246	https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...627139587?s=20 Quote: !!! Despite a court order, the Justice Department is holding back Special Counsel Mueller memos regarding the interviews conducted with the President’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner. CNN and Buzzfeed won access to thousands of pages of Mueller’s witness memos.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

18th January 2020, 06:20 AM	#330
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,643	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...627139587?s=20 Nothing to see here. Move along.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

18th January 2020, 12:20 PM	#331
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,865	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...627139587?s=20 Trump simply ignores the law.

18th January 2020, 03:53 PM	#332
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,002	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Trump simply ignores the law. But, SG....Article II of the Constitution lets Trump do anything he wants!

31st January 2020, 11:05 PM	#333
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,643	I wonder if Mueller would have run his Investigation and made his Report differently, had he anticipated this level of Obstruction and Deception from the Senate and White House. My guess is that he would have refused to take the job in the first place.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

1st February 2020, 01:23 AM	#334
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,648	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza I wonder if Mueller would have run his Investigation and made his Report differently, had he anticipated this level of Obstruction and Deception from the Senate and White House. My guess is that he would have refused to take the job in the first place. Sometimes ignorance is actually a good thing.

5th February 2020, 05:30 AM	#335
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,246	More declassified documentation
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

5th February 2020, 06:36 AM	#336
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,643	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim More declassified documentation It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

5th February 2020, 10:58 AM	#337
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,106	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee. Does seem strange. I wonder if its simply a case where there are 1) more media outlets, that 2) are more tenacious/focused. On the other hand, the House Committees probably have a lot of responsibilities, and may not realize "Oh, this information is now available".
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

5th February 2020, 12:28 PM	#338
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,238	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee. Maybe that as a private enterprise not funded by the government it can afford (literally and figuratively) to grind out these requests that would be branded a "fishing expedition" if it came from the opposing party in the House? I suspect BuzzFeed is getting a lot of help from 1A experts telling them what to look for and that some private "angel" is financing staffer(s) devoted solely to this process.

11th February 2020, 10:23 AM	#339
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,246	https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/stat...16256227807232 Quote: Prosecutors recommend up to NINE YEARS in prison for Roger Stone. They call foreign election interference a "deadly adversary" even though Stone was never accused of working with Russians or WikiLeaks. Article embedded in tweet. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...22206783811585 Quote: This is a horrible and very unfair situation. The real crimes were on the other side, as nothing happens to them. Cannot allow this miscarriage of justice! https://twitter.com/JakeBGibson/stat...71189346816000 Quote: The DOJ is changing its sentencing recommendation for Roger Stone, according to a Senior DOJ official. “The Department finds seven to nine years extreme, excessive and grossly disproportionate," the source said, adding the DOJ will clarify its position on sentencing later today Huh.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

11th February 2020, 11:37 AM	#340
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,648	Huh, indeed. How long did some woman get for illegally casting a single vote? Compare and contrast to an operative working at a very high level indeed to impact an election?

11th February 2020, 11:45 AM	#341
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,106	Originally Posted by Lurch Huh, indeed. How long did some woman get for illegally casting a single vote? Compare and contrast to an operative working at a very high level indeed to impact an election? Of course, Stone wasn't found guilty of working to subvert American democracy... he was found guilty of perjury (e.g. lying to congress) and witness tampering. You know, the type of crimes that we all do.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

11th February 2020, 12:27 PM	#342
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,002	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/stat...16256227807232 Article embedded in tweet. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...22206783811585 https://twitter.com/JakeBGibson/stat...71189346816000 Huh. Are you suggesting there's a link between the DOJ's declaration that Stone's sentencing is too extreme and the Trump tweet that had been posted just hours before? I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell ya!

11th February 2020, 09:31 PM	#343
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,447	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Are you suggesting there's a link between the DOJ's declaration that Stone's sentencing is too extreme and the Trump tweet that had been posted just hours before? I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell ya! Well... sounds like Barr just took over the sentencing. Nothing to be concerned about there, given Barr's history of shutting down Mueller Report related investigations and actively working to turn the DoJ into the DoSTI (Department of Serving Trump's Interests).
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

11th February 2020, 09:50 PM	#344
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,643	Trump and Barr are on a propaganda tour to promote a stricter separation of the White House and DoJ.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

11th February 2020, 10:15 PM	#345
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,865	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza Trump and Barr are on a propaganda tour to promote a stricter separation of the White House and DoJ. In anticipation of Trump losing the election, got to fix it before a Democrat is POTUS.

12th February 2020, 01:48 AM	#346
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,246	There's more. In response to the change in sentencing recommendation all four prosecutors have resigned from the case, with Jonathan Kravis resigning his job entirely Trump has personally withdrawn his recommendation for Jessie Liu to be Treasury undesecretary, seemingly based on the Stone recommendations, as she oversaw the case (as well as Flynn, Manafort, McCabe, etc.) Barr is reported to have personally intervened in Stone's case (as well as Flynn's) And Trump appears to be laying the groundwork to go after the judge: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...855976449?s=20 Quote: Is this the Judge that put Paul Manafort in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, something that not even mobster Al Capone had to endure? How did she treat Crooked Hillary Clinton? Just asking! Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson...
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

12th February 2020, 01:58 AM	#347
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,246	Chuck Schumer has called for an investigation
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

12th February 2020, 04:22 AM	#348
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,042	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim There's more. In response to the change in sentencing recommendation all four prosecutors have resigned from the case, with Jonathan Kravis resigning his job entirely Trump has personally withdrawn his recommendation for Jessie Liu to be Treasury undesecretary, seemingly based on the Stone recommendations, as she oversaw the case (as well as Flynn, Manafort, McCabe, etc.) Barr is reported to have personally intervened in Stone's case (as well as Flynn's) And Trump appears to be laying the groundwork to go after the judge: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...855976449?s=20 Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson... Not the lesson that she thought he would learn, eh?
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

12th February 2020, 04:29 AM	#349
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,042	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Chuck Schumer has called for an investigation Schumer may as well call for World Peace. After years of people trying to manage Trump, Trump now has a team in place that offers their first loyalty to him personally, that will enable all his whims and defend them, that fuels his most base motivations. Hold on.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

12th February 2020, 05:08 AM	#350
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,333	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson... She's a ******* weakling.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

12th February 2020, 05:48 AM	#351
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,238	Originally Posted by Aridas Well... sounds like Barr just took over the sentencing. Nothing to be concerned about there, given Barr's history of shutting down Mueller Report related investigations and actively working to turn the DoJ into the DoSTI (Department of Serving Trump's Interests). Prediction: Barr is going to be disbarred for severe breach of ethics. This is a massive conflict of interest. He shouldn't have touched that issue with a 10-foot pole. It will be interesting if he pretends that he had nothing to do with that. Good luck with that, counselor.

12th February 2020, 08:13 AM	#352
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,447	Originally Posted by Belz... She's a ******* weakling. Why weakling? It's rather looking like her whole modus operandi is pretending to be moderate and actually concerned about things for the sake of gaining and keeping power, while actually being a partisan hack. Only voting with Democrats when it doesn't make a difference, in other words.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 12th February 2020 at 08:15 AM.

12th February 2020, 08:36 AM	#353
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,618	If Susan Collins is a weakling so is Nancy Pelosi. They've both had the same actual level of effect on anything Trump has done and the difference between Collin's 'Pretend I want to stop him even though I know in the end I don't" and Pelosi' "Pretend I can stop him even though I know in the end I can't" is meaningless on any practical level. Someone once referred to Susan Collins as someone who always has to look at the menu for a half hour before always deciding to eat what Mitch McConnell is having. Nancy Pelosi is someone who looks at the menu, knows immediately what she wants, orders it, but realizes after the fact that Mitch McConnell already ordered for the whole table and she still has to eat it. But sometime she can sarcastically clap at him. Mitch McConnell is still picking both women's meals in both metaphors. The only difference is how much they don't like it and Mitch McConnell don't care.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." Last edited by JoeMorgue; 12th February 2020 at 08:37 AM.

12th February 2020, 08:42 AM	#354
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,017	Originally Posted by Minoosh Prediction: Barr is going to be disbarred for severe breach of ethics. This is a massive conflict of interest. He shouldn't have touched that issue with a 10-foot pole. It will be interesting if he pretends that he had nothing to do with that. Good luck with that, counselor. Nixon's AG Mitchell actually wound up in prison. We can only hope.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

12th February 2020, 08:59 AM	#355
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,333	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue If Susan Collins is a weakling so is Nancy Pelosi. They've both had the same actual level of effect on anything Trump has done and the difference between Collin's 'Pretend I want to stop him even though I know in the end I don't" and Pelosi' "Pretend I can stop him even though I know in the end I can't" is meaningless on any practical level. I guess the difference is one of them is only pretending to try.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward