Is Joe Biden done? I hope so. - Page 5

pgwenthold · 26th September 2019, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Yes. The electoral vote actually matters. The "popular vote" is actually shorthand for "not enough popular votes in enough states to actually win the election".

All of this is irrelevant to the point I was responding to. That she was not elected is not the claim, it's that she is unelectable. I contend that to claim that a presidential candidate who got 2% more of the popular vote is unelectable is silly. Out of millions of votes cast, it's an issue of changing 10s of thousands around here and there. You think that's impossible? That was the original assertion.

Lurch · 27th September 2019, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

prove it, she lost so.....

[EDIT: Mine was a redundant reply, given the subsequent responses I had not yet read.]

Belz... · 27th September 2019, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Looks like SS Giuliani has really lost it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-biden/598879/

Looks like he's channeling his inner Trump.

I think that's reason enough to have him committed.

Belz... · 27th September 2019, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Yes, that was the myth that both BernieBros and Trumpers managed to create.

Didn't matter if it was TRUE or not.

Now, it was true that yes, she did have speaking engagements at various large banks prior to her election run. And its also true that she wasn't as extreme as (for example) Sanders in her policies.

But, her policies called for:
- strengthening the Dodd-Frank act, put in place to regulate banks
- Regulations on hedge funds
- increasing taxes on high-income earners
- Removing a corporate tax loophole which allowed countries to reduce taxes by claiming foreign ownership

Again, perhaps not as radical as what Sanders might have proposed, but still more 'left wing' than what we're getting with Trump and the republicans.

In a way, Sanders is partly to blame for why we now have Trump.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

As if such things matter in a democracy.

Again, Electoral vs. Popular vote, we do it by Electoral, agree or not.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Aw, come on now! You know that's because there were millions of illegal votes cast for her! I'd bet they were the same people that were dancing on the roofs after on 9/11. People don't know that.

No..... you're doing this all wrong, you blame it on Russian meddling, and overlook the fact that whole slew of Complacent dems "knew" she'd win and stayed home, and all that pesky baggage.

AND... she would have been better than the current stooge. But the Dems need to suck it up stop their never ending Snowflaking and take responsibility for their complacent role in the current situation.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Bullcrap.

Nope, Bengazi.... damning
Toilet Server: Incompetence.

Deniable may keep you warn at night and I wonder if you were one of the complacent ones. She never was going to win. Back then it would maybe should have gone to Bernie, but she screwed his campaign to.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

You do understand that there is a difference between the electoral vote and the popular vote don't you?

That was only my entire point, she lost by the Electoral, the actual method used, so your point is kind of pointless.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

FTFY

OR thats how its done so if your guy didn't couldn't win under teh system used, cry for change until ya know, their guy wins the popular vote and then you scream to restore the Electoral.

If you cant win under the game at hand, cry to change the rules. Its called rigging the system and it's wrong.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

And yet it shouldn't matter. It's undemocratic. But we know you don't believe in democratic principles.

Coulda shoulda woulda, if your guy can't win in the existing system, oh well. The fact remains Hillary was not electable, and even if she ran this time around, she would tank the Dems again for many of the same reasons as well as alienate the Biden and Bernie campaigns, further damaging the Dems.

Wanna win the Election, up your game and get her the bleep out of it. we don't another Clinton.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

By your standard I think any sufficiently popular politician can draw a personality cult.

As for Sanders, I don't see a huge cult following, at least not yet. Non-Bernie "bros" probably still heavily outnumber the zealots.

More seem to favor Warren, but a point of Clarity, Bernie's folks didnt turn on Hillary, Hillary screwed the Bernie campaign. Its the current state of the Dems. One part angry Left Wing, Liberal if you will, and the Corrupt Party mechanism closer to center, but... corrupt, just like the other guys.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

In a way, Sanders is partly to blame for why we now have Trump.

Nope.... the Hillary campaign screwed the Bernie Campaign and put herself in as the nominee for the Dems, it was all her and all on her. That is straight up classic denial. Her baggage bagged her campaign, not bernie.

acbytesla · 27th September 2019, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

That was only my entire point, she lost by the Electoral, the actual method used, so your point is kind of pointless.

I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule?

theprestige · 27th September 2019, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule?

Ideally we don't want any rule at all. In practice, we end up having to live in community, and having to accept some rule just to keep the community running smoothly. Minority rule has some obvious drawbacks. But so does majority rule. The majority can vote for some truly repugnant crap, that isn't really legitimized simply because it's the will of the majority.

What we want is a limited rule, that balances the will of the majority with the concerns of the minority, and generally leaves individuals to rule their own lives and relationships as much as possible, guaranteeing their independent freedoms even when they're a minority of one.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule?

Democrats have this funny way of saying "WE want" when they mean what that one guy saying that wants. The majority put the elctoral college in place it seems, and if it bugs you that much,

FIRST get someone who can actually win the election and then you can play with the existing system to have it your way. But we both know the minute your side loses in the new system you'll try real hard to put the electoral college back. The principled thing is an illusion, its about what ever gets my guy in.

acbytesla · 27th September 2019, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

Democrats have this funny way of saying "WE want" when they mean what that one guy saying that wants. The majority put the elctoral college in place it seems, and if it bugs you that much,

FIRST get someone who can actually win the election and then you can play with the existing system to have it your way. But we both know the minute your side loses in the new system you'll try real hard to put the electoral college back. The principled thing is an illusion, its about what ever gets my guy in.

Oh, so ignorant. The Majority did no such thing. The one and only Constitutional Convention did that.

acbytesla · 27th September 2019, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Ideally we don't want any rule at all. In practice, we end up having to live in community, and having to accept some rule just to keep the community running smoothly. Minority rule has some obvious drawbacks. But so does majority rule. The majority can vote for some truly repugnant crap, that isn't really legitimized simply because it's the will of the majority.

What we want is a limited rule, that balances the will of the majority with the concerns of the minority, and generally leaves individuals to rule their own lives and relationships as much as possible, guaranteeing their independent freedoms even when they're a minority of one.

Sure it can. That's why the bill of rights and checks and balances are integral to our form of government. So majority rule cannot trample on the rights of the individual.

Meadmaker · 27th September 2019, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

Toilet Server:

Is just a plain lie.

I'm no fan of Hilary, but Sean hannity's "mom and pop bathroom server" talking point is just a plain old lie.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Oh, so ignorant. The Majority did no such thing. The one and only Constitutional Convention did that.

Which is what you had to work with then.
Get your guy in office then you can try and change it, but you'll change it back when it fails your purposes and you know it.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Is just a plain lie.

I'm no fan of Hilary, but Sean hannity's "mom and pop bathroom server" talking point is just a plain old lie.

No it's not, the Hag had no sense of how to handle classified information, and there was no inquiry when there should ahve been. She should have neevr been allowed to run in the first place, Biden should have run then, and screwing the Bernie campaign shows how corrupt the Clinton machine was and IS.

Another DEM who likely stayed home in 2016. Can't change the past, do better in the future.

Meadmaker · 27th September 2019, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

No it's not, the Hag had no sense of how to handle classified information, and there was no inquiry when there should ahve been. She should have neevr been allowed to run in the first place, Biden should have run then, and screwing the Bernie campaign shows how corrupt the Clinton machine was and IS.

Another DEM who likely stayed home in 2016. Can't change the past, do better in the future.

It's a lie. The server was never in a bathroom, and Platte River Networks was not a mom and pop shop.

That's the lie.

As for handling classified data, a lot of stupidity has been posted, reported, and investigated, but there are all sorts of disputed claims, and not much agreement.

On the subject of a "toilet server" or "bathroom server" there is no disagreement. The server was never in a bathroom. To say or imply that it was is a lie.

Stacyhs · 27th September 2019, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

No..... you're doing this all wrong, you blame it on Russian meddling, and overlook the fact that whole slew of Complacent dems "knew" she'd win and stayed home, and all that pesky baggage.

AND... she would have been better than the current stooge. But the Dems need to suck it up stop their never ending Snowflaking and take responsibility for their complacent role in the current situation.

Personally, even though we know Russian meddling occurred (despite Trump's very best efforts to deny it), I doubt it had much actual effect on the election's outcome. The people it was directed at didn't really need much convincing to vote for Trump, it just helped confirm what they already thought. But doesn't it bother you that Putin wanted Trump to win and not Clinton?

I agree that the Dem voters who failed to vote are partly to blame and shame on them. Voter non-participation is a problem in this country.

I do believe Clinton would have been a far, far better president than Trump. But I have a difficult time thinking how almost anyone could be worse.

Your original comment claimed Clinton "was never electable due to all her baggage". It was pointed out to you that she received almost 3 million more votes than Trump so that alone proves your statement false. You then went on the "electoral" vs "popular" vote side track as if that proved your case; it doesn't. All it does is show the flaw in the electoral system which allows the low population states to have an unequal voting power which allows a candidate to win the presidency with fewer citizens voting for him/her.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

It's a lie. The server was never in a bathroom, and Platte River Networks was not a mom and pop shop.

That's the lie.

As for handling classified data, a lot of stupidity has been posted, reported, and investigated, but there are all sorts of disputed claims, and not much agreement.

On the subject of a "toilet server" or "bathroom server" there is no disagreement. The server was never in a bathroom. To say or imply that it was is a lie.

oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable.

Stacyhs · 27th September 2019, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

OR thats how its done so if your guy didn't couldn't win under teh system used, cry for change until ya know, their guy wins the popular vote and then you scream to restore the Electoral.

If you cant win under the game at hand, cry to change the rules. Its called rigging the system and it's wrong.

I'm curious; just what would it take for you to stop supporting Trump? I take it that these are not enough to dampen your enthusiasm:

1. Mueller detailing several instances of his obstructing justice,
2. his racist comments,
3. his 12,000+ documented lies,
4. his childish name calling and attacks on anyone who dares criticize him,
5. his mocking of a disabled reporter,
6. the bragging that he can grab a woman's ***** and get away with it
because he's a celebrity,
7. his see saw relationship with despot Kim Jung Un,
8. his accepting Putin's word over his own intelligence agencies,
9. his failure to produce his tax returns despite his promise to do so,
10. his accepting the denial of the Saudi murderer of US resident Khashoggi
over that of his intelligence agencies,
11. his lying about the Stormy Daniels coverup,
12. his lying about the Trump Tower meeting,
13. his asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival.

Really, just what would it take?

Meadmaker · 27th September 2019, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable.

It did not happen. You have been fed a lie.

Well, you have been fed numerous lies, but the one about "in the can" is very easy to verify. If you are an honest man, you will not want to repeat a lie, so look it up. It's easy to Google. Then, once you learn the truth, ask yourself why people with multi million dollar salaries and who have research staffs continue to repeat the lie.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Personally, even though we know Russian meddling occurred (despite Trump's very best efforts to deny it), I doubt it had much actual effect on the election's outcome. The people it was directed at didn't really need much convincing to vote for Trump, it just helped confirm what they already thought. But doesn't it bother you that Putin wanted Trump to win and not Clinton?

I agree that the Dem voters who failed to vote are partly to blame and shame on them. Voter non-participation is a problem in this country.

I do believe Clinton would have been a far, far better president than Trump. But I have a difficult time thinking how almost anyone could be worse.

Your original comment claimed Clinton "was never electable due to all her baggage". It was pointed out to you that she received almost 3 million more votes than Trump so that alone proves your statement false. You then went on the "electoral" vs "popular" vote side track as if that proved your case; it doesn't. All it does is show the flaw in the electoral system which allows the low population states to have an unequal voting power which allows a candidate to win the presidency with fewer citizens voting for him/her.

and yet for you to change that for the third time now, someone other than that hag needs to actually win, and then, you can talk about that, until then, the hag no little than the mullet wearing gopher.

Bernie would have been better than either, if he could be held in check by same and balances.

Meadmaker · 27th September 2019, 10:44 AM

However, we digress. The thread isn't about Hilary.

Limbaugh et. Al. Are trumpeting a new Rasmussen poll showing Biden losing to Trump. One poll doesn't tell much of a story, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I'm curious; just what would it take for you to stop supporting Trump? I take it that these are not enough to dampen your enthusiasm:

Another flaw of the two party system, you assume because I dislike Hillary I must be a Trump guy, you would be wrong, and the other flaw is when someone correctly points out the flaws in one sides guy, they immediately try to flip the script on how much worse the other guy is.

That is BS. Both parties in their present form, suck.

Your assumption and your line of questioning prove my point.
Yes Trump sucks, so did and does Hillary and the best thing that hag can do is keep her nose out of the election so some Dem might have an honest chance without her stink on them. The other side cant even do that, because it's gonna be all about Trump and his butt kissers, and for the record I loath Mitch OConnel and Lindsey Graham more than Hillary but she's a dirty hag who needs to move on and let the Party get over her because she sucks to.

Stacyhs · 27th September 2019, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable.

Would you care to provide some credible evidence of such?

I can provide the FBI report on that system which states it was in the basement of their Chappaqua, NY home.

See pages -3, Para. 1-A Clinton's Personal E-Mail Server Systems

https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-cli...2001%20of%2035

I'll await your presentation of a credible source proving it was in the bathroom. Hannity is not a credible source.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

However, we digress. The thread isn't about Hilary.

Limbaugh et. Al. Are trumpeting a new Rasmussen poll showing Biden losing to Trump. One poll doesn't tell much of a story, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.

Attempt to redirect the discussion denied, its as much about the Dems as Trump, and if Biden or any of the others want a chance, then the Hag butts out.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Would you care to provide some credible evidence of such?

I can provide the FBI report on that system which states it was in the basement of their Chappaqua, NY home.

See pages -3, Para. 1-A Clinton's Personal E-Mail Server Systems

https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-cli...2001%20of%2035

I'll await your presentation of a credible source proving it was in the bathroom. Hannity is not a credible source.

the same FBI that manufactures Terror plots to foil them and then pat themselves on the back.

Source: any one of a number of Techdirt articles.

Thats like the Fireman who has job security by way of arson. Fail!

Stacyhs · 27th September 2019, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

Another flaw of the two party system, you assume because I dislike Hillary I must be a Trump guy, you would be wrong, and the other flaw is when someone correctly points out the flaws in one sides guy, they immediately try to flip the script on how much worse the other guy is.

That is BS. Both parties in their present form, suck.

Your assumption and your line of questioning prove my point.
Yes Trump sucks, so did and does Hillary and the best thing that hag can do is keep her nose out of the election so some Dem might have an honest chance without her stink on them. The other side cant even do that, because it's gonna be all about Trump and his butt kissers, and for the record I loath Mitch OConnel and Lindsey Graham more than Hillary but she's a dirty hag who needs to move on and let the Party get over her because she sucks to.

You certainly have repeated the same lies that Trump and his supporters have claimed regarding Clinton.
I assumed you were a Trump supporter from what I've read from you. When you walked like a duck and quacked like a duck, I thought your were a duck. What you are is a rabid HRC hater. My mistake.

Stacyhs · 27th September 2019, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

the same FBI that manufactures Terror plots to foil them and then pat themselves on the back.

Source: any one of a number of Techdirt articles.

Thats like the Fireman who has job security by way of arson. Fail!

Ah, I see. I mistook you for a rational person. I won't make that mistake again.

Buh bye.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

You certainly have repeated the same lies that Trump and his supporters have claimed regarding Clinton.
I assumed you were a Trump supporter from what I've read from you. When you walked like a duck and quacked like a duck, I thought your were a duck. What you are is a rabid HRC hater. My mistake.

Nope more like angry cynic. One sides flaws dont negate the flaws of the others, be it Russian Tampering or Toilet Servers, or FBI bullshuckey, and if you want to try using ICE for a source it's time to give up, they're worse.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Ah, I see. I mistook you for a rational person. I won't make that mistake again.

Buh bye.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...e4dd037361.jpg

check the source before you look stupid, theyve had multiple posts in the last few years of the FBI doing exactly that.

Venom · 27th September 2019, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

Nope more like angry cynic. One sides flaws dont negate the flaws of the others, be it Russian Tampering or Toilet Servers, or FBI bullshuckey, and if you want to try using ICE for a source it's time to give up, they're worse.

Maybe that's your problem.

Decisions have to be made at the margin whether we like it or not. It can mean the difference between incremental progress and several steps back as we see today with the Trump admin.

Do you watch Jimmy Dore's show? You might enjoy his nonsense.

rockysmith76 · 27th September 2019, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

Maybe that's your problem.

Decisions have to be made at the margin whether we like it or not. It can mean the difference between incremental progress and several steps back as we see today with the Trump admin.

Do you watch Jimmy Dore's show? You might enjoy his nonsense.

progress is in the eye of the beholder, and Politically correct isnt always. Some of it is downright orwellian or plain stupid.

theprestige · 27th September 2019, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Sure it can. That's why the bill of rights and checks and balances are integral to our form of government. So majority rule cannot trample on the rights of the individual.

While the checks and balances are in fact an integral part of our system of government - it's literally a system of checks and balances - the Bill of Rights is not.

Indeed, our system of government was initially implemented without the Bill of Rights. Recognizing that it's not integral was an important factor in getting buy-in on the integral stuff.

acbytesla · 27th September 2019, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

While the checks and balances are in fact an integral part of our system of government - it's literally a system of checks and balances - the Bill of Rights is not.

Indeed, our system of government was initially implemented without the Bill of Rights. Recognizing that it's not integral was an important factor in getting buy-in on the integral stuff.

I hate to burst your bubble but no it was not. In fact bill of rights was essential to getting the Constitution passed.

Stacyhs · 27th September 2019, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I hate to burst your bubble but no it was not. In fact bill of rights was essential to getting the Constitution passed.

Quite correct. There was strong opposition to ratifying the Constitution unless it included a Bill of Rights.

26th September 2019, 02:53 PM	#161
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 20,129	Originally Posted by theprestige Yes. The electoral vote actually matters. The "popular vote" is actually shorthand for "not enough popular votes in enough states to actually win the election". All of this is irrelevant to the point I was responding to. That she was not elected is not the claim, it's that she is unelectable. I contend that to claim that a presidential candidate who got 2% more of the popular vote is unelectable is silly. Out of millions of votes cast, it's an issue of changing 10s of thousands around here and there. You think that's impossible? That was the original assertion.
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

27th September 2019, 03:36 AM	#162
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,648	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 prove it, she lost so..... [EDIT: Mine was a redundant reply, given the subsequent responses I had not yet read.]
	Last edited by Lurch; 27th September 2019 at 03:39 AM.

27th September 2019, 04:10 AM	#163
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,357	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Looks like SS Giuliani has really lost it: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-biden/598879/ Looks like he's channeling his inner Trump. I think that's reason enough to have him committed.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

27th September 2019, 04:12 AM	#164
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,357	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Yes, that was the myth that both BernieBros and Trumpers managed to create. Didn't matter if it was TRUE or not. Now, it was true that yes, she did have speaking engagements at various large banks prior to her election run. And its also true that she wasn't as extreme as (for example) Sanders in her policies. But, her policies called for: - strengthening the Dodd-Frank act, put in place to regulate banks - Regulations on hedge funds - increasing taxes on high-income earners - Removing a corporate tax loophole which allowed countries to reduce taxes by claiming foreign ownership Again, perhaps not as radical as what Sanders might have proposed, but still more 'left wing' than what we're getting with Trump and the republicans. In a way, Sanders is partly to blame for why we now have Trump.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

27th September 2019, 08:52 AM	#165
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle As if such things matter in a democracy. Again, Electoral vs. Popular vote, we do it by Electoral, agree or not.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 08:54 AM	#166
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Aw, come on now! You know that's because there were millions of illegal votes cast for her! I'd bet they were the same people that were dancing on the roofs after on 9/11. People don't know that. No..... you're doing this all wrong, you blame it on Russian meddling, and overlook the fact that whole slew of Complacent dems "knew" she'd win and stayed home, and all that pesky baggage. AND... she would have been better than the current stooge. But the Dems need to suck it up stop their never ending Snowflaking and take responsibility for their complacent role in the current situation.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 08:56 AM	#167
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by acbytesla Bullcrap. Nope, Bengazi.... damning Toilet Server: Incompetence. Deniable may keep you warn at night and I wonder if you were one of the complacent ones. She never was going to win. Back then it would maybe should have gone to Bernie, but she screwed his campaign to.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 08:58 AM	#168
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by acbytesla You do understand that there is a difference between the electoral vote and the popular vote don't you? That was only my entire point, she lost by the Electoral, the actual method used, so your point is kind of pointless.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 09:00 AM	#169
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Stacyhs FTFY OR thats how its done so if your guy didn't couldn't win under teh system used, cry for change until ya know, their guy wins the popular vote and then you scream to restore the Electoral. If you cant win under the game at hand, cry to change the rules. Its called rigging the system and it's wrong.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 09:02 AM	#170
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by acbytesla And yet it shouldn't matter. It's undemocratic. But we know you don't believe in democratic principles. Coulda shoulda woulda, if your guy can't win in the existing system, oh well. The fact remains Hillary was not electable, and even if she ran this time around, she would tank the Dems again for many of the same reasons as well as alienate the Biden and Bernie campaigns, further damaging the Dems. Wanna win the Election, up your game and get her the bleep out of it. we don't another Clinton.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 09:04 AM	#171
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Venom By your standard I think any sufficiently popular politician can draw a personality cult. As for Sanders, I don't see a huge cult following, at least not yet. Non-Bernie "bros" probably still heavily outnumber the zealots. More seem to favor Warren, but a point of Clarity, Bernie's folks didnt turn on Hillary, Hillary screwed the Bernie campaign. Its the current state of the Dems. One part angry Left Wing, Liberal if you will, and the Corrupt Party mechanism closer to center, but... corrupt, just like the other guys.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 09:07 AM	#172
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Belz... In a way, Sanders is partly to blame for why we now have Trump. Nope.... the Hillary campaign screwed the Bernie Campaign and put herself in as the nominee for the Dems, it was all her and all on her. That is straight up classic denial. Her baggage bagged her campaign, not bernie.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 09:23 AM	#173
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,246	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 That was only my entire point, she lost by the Electoral, the actual method used, so your point is kind of pointless. I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule?
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

27th September 2019, 09:30 AM	#174
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,605	Originally Posted by acbytesla I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule? Ideally we don't want any rule at all. In practice, we end up having to live in community, and having to accept some rule just to keep the community running smoothly. Minority rule has some obvious drawbacks. But so does majority rule. The majority can vote for some truly repugnant crap, that isn't really legitimized simply because it's the will of the majority. What we want is a limited rule, that balances the will of the majority with the concerns of the minority, and generally leaves individuals to rule their own lives and relationships as much as possible, guaranteeing their independent freedoms even when they're a minority of one.

27th September 2019, 09:36 AM	#175
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by acbytesla I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule? Democrats have this funny way of saying "WE want" when they mean what that one guy saying that wants. The majority put the elctoral college in place it seems, and if it bugs you that much, FIRST get someone who can actually win the election and then you can play with the existing system to have it your way. But we both know the minute your side loses in the new system you'll try real hard to put the electoral college back. The principled thing is an illusion, its about what ever gets my guy in.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 09:45 AM	#176
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,246	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 Democrats have this funny way of saying "WE want" when they mean what that one guy saying that wants. The majority put the elctoral college in place it seems, and if it bugs you that much, FIRST get someone who can actually win the election and then you can play with the existing system to have it your way. But we both know the minute your side loses in the new system you'll try real hard to put the electoral college back. The principled thing is an illusion, its about what ever gets my guy in. Oh, so ignorant. The Majority did no such thing. The one and only Constitutional Convention did that.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

27th September 2019, 09:48 AM	#177
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,246	Originally Posted by theprestige Ideally we don't want any rule at all. In practice, we end up having to live in community, and having to accept some rule just to keep the community running smoothly. Minority rule has some obvious drawbacks. But so does majority rule. The majority can vote for some truly repugnant crap, that isn't really legitimized simply because it's the will of the majority. What we want is a limited rule, that balances the will of the majority with the concerns of the minority, and generally leaves individuals to rule their own lives and relationships as much as possible, guaranteeing their independent freedoms even when they're a minority of one. Sure it can. That's why the bill of rights and checks and balances are integral to our form of government. So majority rule cannot trample on the rights of the individual.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

27th September 2019, 09:50 AM	#178
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,229	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 Toilet Server: Is just a plain lie. I'm no fan of Hilary, but Sean hannity's "mom and pop bathroom server" talking point is just a plain old lie.

27th September 2019, 09:52 AM	#179
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by acbytesla Oh, so ignorant. The Majority did no such thing. The one and only Constitutional Convention did that. Which is what you had to work with then. Get your guy in office then you can try and change it, but you'll change it back when it fails your purposes and you know it.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 09:53 AM	#180
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Meadmaker Is just a plain lie. I'm no fan of Hilary, but Sean hannity's "mom and pop bathroom server" talking point is just a plain old lie. No it's not, the Hag had no sense of how to handle classified information, and there was no inquiry when there should ahve been. She should have neevr been allowed to run in the first place, Biden should have run then, and screwing the Bernie campaign shows how corrupt the Clinton machine was and IS. Another DEM who likely stayed home in 2016. Can't change the past, do better in the future.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 10:06 AM	#181
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,229	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 No it's not, the Hag had no sense of how to handle classified information, and there was no inquiry when there should ahve been. She should have neevr been allowed to run in the first place, Biden should have run then, and screwing the Bernie campaign shows how corrupt the Clinton machine was and IS. Another DEM who likely stayed home in 2016. Can't change the past, do better in the future. It's a lie. The server was never in a bathroom, and Platte River Networks was not a mom and pop shop. That's the lie. As for handling classified data, a lot of stupidity has been posted, reported, and investigated, but there are all sorts of disputed claims, and not much agreement. On the subject of a "toilet server" or "bathroom server" there is no disagreement. The server was never in a bathroom. To say or imply that it was is a lie.

27th September 2019, 10:14 AM	#182
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,005	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 No..... you're doing this all wrong, you blame it on Russian meddling, and overlook the fact that whole slew of Complacent dems "knew" she'd win and stayed home, and all that pesky baggage. AND... she would have been better than the current stooge. But the Dems need to suck it up stop their never ending Snowflaking and take responsibility for their complacent role in the current situation. Personally, even though we know Russian meddling occurred (despite Trump's very best efforts to deny it), I doubt it had much actual effect on the election's outcome. The people it was directed at didn't really need much convincing to vote for Trump, it just helped confirm what they already thought. But doesn't it bother you that Putin wanted Trump to win and not Clinton? I agree that the Dem voters who failed to vote are partly to blame and shame on them. Voter non-participation is a problem in this country. I do believe Clinton would have been a far, far better president than Trump. But I have a difficult time thinking how almost anyone could be worse. Your original comment claimed Clinton "was never electable due to all her baggage". It was pointed out to you that she received almost 3 million more votes than Trump so that alone proves your statement false. You then went on the "electoral" vs "popular" vote side track as if that proved your case; it doesn't. All it does is show the flaw in the electoral system which allows the low population states to have an unequal voting power which allows a candidate to win the presidency with fewer citizens voting for him/her.

27th September 2019, 10:14 AM	#183
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Meadmaker It's a lie. The server was never in a bathroom, and Platte River Networks was not a mom and pop shop. That's the lie. As for handling classified data, a lot of stupidity has been posted, reported, and investigated, but there are all sorts of disputed claims, and not much agreement. On the subject of a "toilet server" or "bathroom server" there is no disagreement. The server was never in a bathroom. To say or imply that it was is a lie. oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 10:33 AM	#184
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,005	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 OR thats how its done so if your guy didn't couldn't win under teh system used, cry for change until ya know, their guy wins the popular vote and then you scream to restore the Electoral. If you cant win under the game at hand, cry to change the rules. Its called rigging the system and it's wrong. I'm curious; just what would it take for you to stop supporting Trump? I take it that these are not enough to dampen your enthusiasm: 1. Mueller detailing several instances of his obstructing justice, 2. his racist comments, 3. his 12,000+ documented lies, 4. his childish name calling and attacks on anyone who dares criticize him, 5. his mocking of a disabled reporter, 6. the bragging that he can grab a woman's ***** and get away with it because he's a celebrity, 7. his see saw relationship with despot Kim Jung Un, 8. his accepting Putin's word over his own intelligence agencies, 9. his failure to produce his tax returns despite his promise to do so, 10. his accepting the denial of the Saudi murderer of US resident Khashoggi over that of his intelligence agencies, 11. his lying about the Stormy Daniels coverup, 12. his lying about the Trump Tower meeting, 13. his asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival. Really, just what would it take?

27th September 2019, 10:40 AM	#185
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,229	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable. It did not happen. You have been fed a lie. Well, you have been fed numerous lies, but the one about "in the can" is very easy to verify. If you are an honest man, you will not want to repeat a lie, so look it up. It's easy to Google. Then, once you learn the truth, ask yourself why people with multi million dollar salaries and who have research staffs continue to repeat the lie.

27th September 2019, 10:42 AM	#186
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Personally, even though we know Russian meddling occurred (despite Trump's very best efforts to deny it), I doubt it had much actual effect on the election's outcome. The people it was directed at didn't really need much convincing to vote for Trump, it just helped confirm what they already thought. But doesn't it bother you that Putin wanted Trump to win and not Clinton? I agree that the Dem voters who failed to vote are partly to blame and shame on them. Voter non-participation is a problem in this country. I do believe Clinton would have been a far, far better president than Trump. But I have a difficult time thinking how almost anyone could be worse. Your original comment claimed Clinton "was never electable due to all her baggage". It was pointed out to you that she received almost 3 million more votes than Trump so that alone proves your statement false. You then went on the "electoral" vs "popular" vote side track as if that proved your case; it doesn't. All it does is show the flaw in the electoral system which allows the low population states to have an unequal voting power which allows a candidate to win the presidency with fewer citizens voting for him/her. and yet for you to change that for the third time now, someone other than that hag needs to actually win, and then, you can talk about that, until then, the hag no little than the mullet wearing gopher. Bernie would have been better than either, if he could be held in check by same and balances.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 10:44 AM	#187
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,229	However, we digress. The thread isn't about Hilary. Limbaugh et. Al. Are trumpeting a new Rasmussen poll showing Biden losing to Trump. One poll doesn't tell much of a story, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.

27th September 2019, 10:46 AM	#188
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I'm curious; just what would it take for you to stop supporting Trump? I take it that these are not enough to dampen your enthusiasm: Another flaw of the two party system, you assume because I dislike Hillary I must be a Trump guy, you would be wrong, and the other flaw is when someone correctly points out the flaws in one sides guy, they immediately try to flip the script on how much worse the other guy is. That is BS. Both parties in their present form, suck. Your assumption and your line of questioning prove my point. Yes Trump sucks, so did and does Hillary and the best thing that hag can do is keep her nose out of the election so some Dem might have an honest chance without her stink on them. The other side cant even do that, because it's gonna be all about Trump and his butt kissers, and for the record I loath Mitch OConnel and Lindsey Graham more than Hillary but she's a dirty hag who needs to move on and let the Party get over her because she sucks to.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 10:47 AM	#189
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,005	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable. Would you care to provide some credible evidence of such? I can provide the FBI report on that system which states it was in the basement of their Chappaqua, NY home. See pages -3, Para. 1-A Clinton's Personal E-Mail Server Systems https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-cli...2001%20of%2035 I'll await your presentation of a credible source proving it was in the bathroom. Hannity is not a credible source.

27th September 2019, 10:48 AM	#190
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Meadmaker However, we digress. The thread isn't about Hilary. Limbaugh et. Al. Are trumpeting a new Rasmussen poll showing Biden losing to Trump. One poll doesn't tell much of a story, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on. Attempt to redirect the discussion denied, its as much about the Dems as Trump, and if Biden or any of the others want a chance, then the Hag butts out.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 10:49 AM	#191
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Would you care to provide some credible evidence of such? I can provide the FBI report on that system which states it was in the basement of their Chappaqua, NY home. See pages -3, Para. 1-A Clinton's Personal E-Mail Server Systems https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-cli...2001%20of%2035 I'll await your presentation of a credible source proving it was in the bathroom. Hannity is not a credible source. the same FBI that manufactures Terror plots to foil them and then pat themselves on the back. Source: any one of a number of Techdirt articles. Thats like the Fireman who has job security by way of arson. Fail!
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 10:53 AM	#192
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,005	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 Another flaw of the two party system, you assume because I dislike Hillary I must be a Trump guy, you would be wrong, and the other flaw is when someone correctly points out the flaws in one sides guy, they immediately try to flip the script on how much worse the other guy is. That is BS. Both parties in their present form, suck. Your assumption and your line of questioning prove my point. Yes Trump sucks, so did and does Hillary and the best thing that hag can do is keep her nose out of the election so some Dem might have an honest chance without her stink on them. The other side cant even do that, because it's gonna be all about Trump and his butt kissers, and for the record I loath Mitch OConnel and Lindsey Graham more than Hillary but she's a dirty hag who needs to move on and let the Party get over her because she sucks to. You certainly have repeated the same lies that Trump and his supporters have claimed regarding Clinton. I assumed you were a Trump supporter from what I've read from you. When you walked like a duck and quacked like a duck, I thought your were a duck. What you are is a rabid HRC hater. My mistake.

27th September 2019, 10:58 AM	#193
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,005	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 the same FBI that manufactures Terror plots to foil them and then pat themselves on the back. Source: any one of a number of Techdirt articles. Thats like the Fireman who has job security by way of arson. Fail! Ah, I see. I mistook you for a rational person. I won't make that mistake again. Buh bye.

27th September 2019, 11:00 AM	#194
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Stacyhs You certainly have repeated the same lies that Trump and his supporters have claimed regarding Clinton. I assumed you were a Trump supporter from what I've read from you. When you walked like a duck and quacked like a duck, I thought your were a duck. What you are is a rabid HRC hater. My mistake. Nope more like angry cynic. One sides flaws dont negate the flaws of the others, be it Russian Tampering or Toilet Servers, or FBI bullshuckey, and if you want to try using ICE for a source it's time to give up, they're worse.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

27th September 2019, 11:01 AM	#195
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Ah, I see. I mistook you for a rational person. I won't make that mistake again. Buh bye. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...e4dd037361.jpg check the source before you look stupid, theyve had multiple posts in the last few years of the FBI doing exactly that.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990