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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 26th September 2019, 02:53 PM   #161
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yes. The electoral vote actually matters. The "popular vote" is actually shorthand for "not enough popular votes in enough states to actually win the election".
All of this is irrelevant to the point I was responding to. That she was not elected is not the claim, it's that she is unelectable. I contend that to claim that a presidential candidate who got 2% more of the popular vote is unelectable is silly. Out of millions of votes cast, it's an issue of changing 10s of thousands around here and there. You think that's impossible? That was the original assertion.
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Old 27th September 2019, 03:36 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
prove it, she lost so.....
[EDIT: Mine was a redundant reply, given the subsequent responses I had not yet read.]

Last edited by Lurch; 27th September 2019 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 27th September 2019, 04:10 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Looks like SS Giuliani has really lost it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-biden/598879/

Looks like he's channeling his inner Trump.
I think that's reason enough to have him committed.
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Old 27th September 2019, 04:12 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes, that was the myth that both BernieBros and Trumpers managed to create.

Didn't matter if it was TRUE or not.

Now, it was true that yes, she did have speaking engagements at various large banks prior to her election run. And its also true that she wasn't as extreme as (for example) Sanders in her policies.

But, her policies called for:
- strengthening the Dodd-Frank act, put in place to regulate banks
- Regulations on hedge funds
- increasing taxes on high-income earners
- Removing a corporate tax loophole which allowed countries to reduce taxes by claiming foreign ownership

Again, perhaps not as radical as what Sanders might have proposed, but still more 'left wing' than what we're getting with Trump and the republicans.
In a way, Sanders is partly to blame for why we now have Trump.
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Old 27th September 2019, 08:52 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
As if such things matter in a democracy.
Again, Electoral vs. Popular vote, we do it by Electoral, agree or not.
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Old 27th September 2019, 08:54 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Aw, come on now! You know that's because there were millions of illegal votes cast for her! I'd bet they were the same people that were dancing on the roofs after on 9/11. People don't know that.
No..... you're doing this all wrong, you blame it on Russian meddling, and overlook the fact that whole slew of Complacent dems "knew" she'd win and stayed home, and all that pesky baggage.

AND... she would have been better than the current stooge. But the Dems need to suck it up stop their never ending Snowflaking and take responsibility for their complacent role in the current situation.
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Old 27th September 2019, 08:56 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Bullcrap.
Nope, Bengazi.... damning
Toilet Server: Incompetence.

Deniable may keep you warn at night and I wonder if you were one of the complacent ones. She never was going to win. Back then it would maybe should have gone to Bernie, but she screwed his campaign to.
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Old 27th September 2019, 08:58 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You do understand that there is a difference between the electoral vote and the popular vote don't you?
That was only my entire point, she lost by the Electoral, the actual method used, so your point is kind of pointless.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:00 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
FTFY
OR thats how its done so if your guy didn't couldn't win under teh system used, cry for change until ya know, their guy wins the popular vote and then you scream to restore the Electoral.

If you cant win under the game at hand, cry to change the rules. Its called rigging the system and it's wrong.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:02 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
And yet it shouldn't matter. It's undemocratic. But we know you don't believe in democratic principles.
Coulda shoulda woulda, if your guy can't win in the existing system, oh well. The fact remains Hillary was not electable, and even if she ran this time around, she would tank the Dems again for many of the same reasons as well as alienate the Biden and Bernie campaigns, further damaging the Dems.

Wanna win the Election, up your game and get her the bleep out of it. we don't another Clinton.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:04 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
By your standard I think any sufficiently popular politician can draw a personality cult.

As for Sanders, I don't see a huge cult following, at least not yet. Non-Bernie "bros" probably still heavily outnumber the zealots.
More seem to favor Warren, but a point of Clarity, Bernie's folks didnt turn on Hillary, Hillary screwed the Bernie campaign. Its the current state of the Dems. One part angry Left Wing, Liberal if you will, and the Corrupt Party mechanism closer to center, but... corrupt, just like the other guys.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:07 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
In a way, Sanders is partly to blame for why we now have Trump.
Nope.... the Hillary campaign screwed the Bernie Campaign and put herself in as the nominee for the Dems, it was all her and all on her. That is straight up classic denial. Her baggage bagged her campaign, not bernie.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:23 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
That was only my entire point, she lost by the Electoral, the actual method used, so your point is kind of pointless.
I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule?
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:30 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule?
Ideally we don't want any rule at all. In practice, we end up having to live in community, and having to accept some rule just to keep the community running smoothly. Minority rule has some obvious drawbacks. But so does majority rule. The majority can vote for some truly repugnant crap, that isn't really legitimized simply because it's the will of the majority.

What we want is a limited rule, that balances the will of the majority with the concerns of the minority, and generally leaves individuals to rule their own lives and relationships as much as possible, guaranteeing their independent freedoms even when they're a minority of one.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:36 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think it's pointless at all. The point is do we want a nation based on democratic principles or not? Do we want minority rule?
Democrats have this funny way of saying "WE want" when they mean what that one guy saying that wants. The majority put the elctoral college in place it seems, and if it bugs you that much,

FIRST get someone who can actually win the election and then you can play with the existing system to have it your way. But we both know the minute your side loses in the new system you'll try real hard to put the electoral college back. The principled thing is an illusion, its about what ever gets my guy in.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:45 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Democrats have this funny way of saying "WE want" when they mean what that one guy saying that wants. The majority put the elctoral college in place it seems, and if it bugs you that much,

FIRST get someone who can actually win the election and then you can play with the existing system to have it your way. But we both know the minute your side loses in the new system you'll try real hard to put the electoral college back. The principled thing is an illusion, its about what ever gets my guy in.
Oh, so ignorant. The Majority did no such thing. The one and only Constitutional Convention did that.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:48 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ideally we don't want any rule at all. In practice, we end up having to live in community, and having to accept some rule just to keep the community running smoothly. Minority rule has some obvious drawbacks. But so does majority rule. The majority can vote for some truly repugnant crap, that isn't really legitimized simply because it's the will of the majority.

What we want is a limited rule, that balances the will of the majority with the concerns of the minority, and generally leaves individuals to rule their own lives and relationships as much as possible, guaranteeing their independent freedoms even when they're a minority of one.
Sure it can. That's why the bill of rights and checks and balances are integral to our form of government. So majority rule cannot trample on the rights of the individual.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:50 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Toilet Server:
Is just a plain lie.

I'm no fan of Hilary, but Sean hannity's "mom and pop bathroom server" talking point is just a plain old lie.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:52 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Oh, so ignorant. The Majority did no such thing. The one and only Constitutional Convention did that.
Which is what you had to work with then.
Get your guy in office then you can try and change it, but you'll change it back when it fails your purposes and you know it.
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Old 27th September 2019, 09:53 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Is just a plain lie.

I'm no fan of Hilary, but Sean hannity's "mom and pop bathroom server" talking point is just a plain old lie.
No it's not, the Hag had no sense of how to handle classified information, and there was no inquiry when there should ahve been. She should have neevr been allowed to run in the first place, Biden should have run then, and screwing the Bernie campaign shows how corrupt the Clinton machine was and IS.

Another DEM who likely stayed home in 2016. Can't change the past, do better in the future.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:06 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
No it's not, the Hag had no sense of how to handle classified information, and there was no inquiry when there should ahve been. She should have neevr been allowed to run in the first place, Biden should have run then, and screwing the Bernie campaign shows how corrupt the Clinton machine was and IS.

Another DEM who likely stayed home in 2016. Can't change the past, do better in the future.
It's a lie. The server was never in a bathroom, and Platte River Networks was not a mom and pop shop.

That's the lie.


As for handling classified data, a lot of stupidity has been posted, reported, and investigated, but there are all sorts of disputed claims, and not much agreement.

On the subject of a "toilet server" or "bathroom server" there is no disagreement. The server was never in a bathroom. To say or imply that it was is a lie.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:14 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
No..... you're doing this all wrong, you blame it on Russian meddling, and overlook the fact that whole slew of Complacent dems "knew" she'd win and stayed home, and all that pesky baggage.

AND... she would have been better than the current stooge. But the Dems need to suck it up stop their never ending Snowflaking and take responsibility for their complacent role in the current situation.
Personally, even though we know Russian meddling occurred (despite Trump's very best efforts to deny it), I doubt it had much actual effect on the election's outcome. The people it was directed at didn't really need much convincing to vote for Trump, it just helped confirm what they already thought. But doesn't it bother you that Putin wanted Trump to win and not Clinton?

I agree that the Dem voters who failed to vote are partly to blame and shame on them. Voter non-participation is a problem in this country.

I do believe Clinton would have been a far, far better president than Trump. But I have a difficult time thinking how almost anyone could be worse.

Your original comment claimed Clinton "was never electable due to all her baggage". It was pointed out to you that she received almost 3 million more votes than Trump so that alone proves your statement false. You then went on the "electoral" vs "popular" vote side track as if that proved your case; it doesn't. All it does is show the flaw in the electoral system which allows the low population states to have an unequal voting power which allows a candidate to win the presidency with fewer citizens voting for him/her.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:14 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It's a lie. The server was never in a bathroom, and Platte River Networks was not a mom and pop shop.

That's the lie.


As for handling classified data, a lot of stupidity has been posted, reported, and investigated, but there are all sorts of disputed claims, and not much agreement.

On the subject of a "toilet server" or "bathroom server" there is no disagreement. The server was never in a bathroom. To say or imply that it was is a lie.
oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:33 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
OR thats how its done so if your guy didn't couldn't win under teh system used, cry for change until ya know, their guy wins the popular vote and then you scream to restore the Electoral.

If you cant win under the game at hand, cry to change the rules. Its called rigging the system and it's wrong.
I'm curious; just what would it take for you to stop supporting Trump? I take it that these are not enough to dampen your enthusiasm:

1. Mueller detailing several instances of his obstructing justice,
2. his racist comments,
3. his 12,000+ documented lies,
4. his childish name calling and attacks on anyone who dares criticize him,
5. his mocking of a disabled reporter,
6. the bragging that he can grab a woman's ***** and get away with it
because he's a celebrity,
7. his see saw relationship with despot Kim Jung Un,
8. his accepting Putin's word over his own intelligence agencies,
9. his failure to produce his tax returns despite his promise to do so,
10. his accepting the denial of the Saudi murderer of US resident Khashoggi
over that of his intelligence agencies,
11. his lying about the Stormy Daniels coverup,
12. his lying about the Trump Tower meeting,
13. his asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival.

Really, just what would it take?
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:40 AM   #185
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable.
It did not happen. You have been fed a lie.

Well, you have been fed numerous lies, but the one about "in the can" is very easy to verify. If you are an honest man, you will not want to repeat a lie, so look it up. It's easy to Google. Then, once you learn the truth, ask yourself why people with multi million dollar salaries and who have research staffs continue to repeat the lie.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:42 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Personally, even though we know Russian meddling occurred (despite Trump's very best efforts to deny it), I doubt it had much actual effect on the election's outcome. The people it was directed at didn't really need much convincing to vote for Trump, it just helped confirm what they already thought. But doesn't it bother you that Putin wanted Trump to win and not Clinton?

I agree that the Dem voters who failed to vote are partly to blame and shame on them. Voter non-participation is a problem in this country.

I do believe Clinton would have been a far, far better president than Trump. But I have a difficult time thinking how almost anyone could be worse.

Your original comment claimed Clinton "was never electable due to all her baggage". It was pointed out to you that she received almost 3 million more votes than Trump so that alone proves your statement false. You then went on the "electoral" vs "popular" vote side track as if that proved your case; it doesn't. All it does is show the flaw in the electoral system which allows the low population states to have an unequal voting power which allows a candidate to win the presidency with fewer citizens voting for him/her.
and yet for you to change that for the third time now, someone other than that hag needs to actually win, and then, you can talk about that, until then, the hag no little than the mullet wearing gopher.

Bernie would have been better than either, if he could be held in check by same and balances.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:44 AM   #187
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However, we digress. The thread isn't about Hilary.


Limbaugh et. Al. Are trumpeting a new Rasmussen poll showing Biden losing to Trump. One poll doesn't tell much of a story, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:46 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm curious; just what would it take for you to stop supporting Trump? I take it that these are not enough to dampen your enthusiasm:
Another flaw of the two party system, you assume because I dislike Hillary I must be a Trump guy, you would be wrong, and the other flaw is when someone correctly points out the flaws in one sides guy, they immediately try to flip the script on how much worse the other guy is.

That is BS. Both parties in their present form, suck.

Your assumption and your line of questioning prove my point.
Yes Trump sucks, so did and does Hillary and the best thing that hag can do is keep her nose out of the election so some Dem might have an honest chance without her stink on them. The other side cant even do that, because it's gonna be all about Trump and his butt kissers, and for the record I loath Mitch OConnel and Lindsey Graham more than Hillary but she's a dirty hag who needs to move on and let the Party get over her because she sucks to.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:47 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
oh no...... It happened. The Secretary of freakin State had classified intel on a server in the can. Not. Electable.
Would you care to provide some credible evidence of such?

I can provide the FBI report on that system which states it was in the basement of their Chappaqua, NY home.

See pages -3, Para. 1-A Clinton's Personal E-Mail Server Systems

https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-cli...2001%20of%2035

I'll await your presentation of a credible source proving it was in the bathroom. Hannity is not a credible source.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:48 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
However, we digress. The thread isn't about Hilary.


Limbaugh et. Al. Are trumpeting a new Rasmussen poll showing Biden losing to Trump. One poll doesn't tell much of a story, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.
Attempt to redirect the discussion denied, its as much about the Dems as Trump, and if Biden or any of the others want a chance, then the Hag butts out.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:49 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Would you care to provide some credible evidence of such?

I can provide the FBI report on that system which states it was in the basement of their Chappaqua, NY home.

See pages -3, Para. 1-A Clinton's Personal E-Mail Server Systems

https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-cli...2001%20of%2035

I'll await your presentation of a credible source proving it was in the bathroom. Hannity is not a credible source.
the same FBI that manufactures Terror plots to foil them and then pat themselves on the back.

Source: any one of a number of Techdirt articles.

Thats like the Fireman who has job security by way of arson. Fail!
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:53 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Another flaw of the two party system, you assume because I dislike Hillary I must be a Trump guy, you would be wrong, and the other flaw is when someone correctly points out the flaws in one sides guy, they immediately try to flip the script on how much worse the other guy is.

That is BS. Both parties in their present form, suck.

Your assumption and your line of questioning prove my point.
Yes Trump sucks, so did and does Hillary and the best thing that hag can do is keep her nose out of the election so some Dem might have an honest chance without her stink on them. The other side cant even do that, because it's gonna be all about Trump and his butt kissers, and for the record I loath Mitch OConnel and Lindsey Graham more than Hillary but she's a dirty hag who needs to move on and let the Party get over her because she sucks to.
You certainly have repeated the same lies that Trump and his supporters have claimed regarding Clinton.
I assumed you were a Trump supporter from what I've read from you. When you walked like a duck and quacked like a duck, I thought your were a duck. What you are is a rabid HRC hater. My mistake.
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:58 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
the same FBI that manufactures Terror plots to foil them and then pat themselves on the back.

Source: any one of a number of Techdirt articles.

Thats like the Fireman who has job security by way of arson. Fail!
Ah, I see. I mistook you for a rational person. I won't make that mistake again.

Buh bye.

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Old 27th September 2019, 11:00 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You certainly have repeated the same lies that Trump and his supporters have claimed regarding Clinton.
I assumed you were a Trump supporter from what I've read from you. When you walked like a duck and quacked like a duck, I thought your were a duck. What you are is a rabid HRC hater. My mistake.
Nope more like angry cynic. One sides flaws dont negate the flaws of the others, be it Russian Tampering or Toilet Servers, or FBI bullshuckey, and if you want to try using ICE for a source it's time to give up, they're worse.
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:01 AM   #195
rockysmith76
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ah, I see. I mistook you for a rational person. I won't make that mistake again.

Buh bye.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...e4dd037361.jpg
check the source before you look stupid, theyve had multiple posts in the last few years of the FBI doing exactly that.
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:13 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Nope more like angry cynic. One sides flaws dont negate the flaws of the others, be it Russian Tampering or Toilet Servers, or FBI bullshuckey, and if you want to try using ICE for a source it's time to give up, they're worse.
Maybe that's your problem.

Decisions have to be made at the margin whether we like it or not. It can mean the difference between incremental progress and several steps back as we see today with the Trump admin.

Do you watch Jimmy Dore's show? You might enjoy his nonsense.
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:31 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Maybe that's your problem.

Decisions have to be made at the margin whether we like it or not. It can mean the difference between incremental progress and several steps back as we see today with the Trump admin.

Do you watch Jimmy Dore's show? You might enjoy his nonsense.
progress is in the eye of the beholder, and Politically correct isnt always. Some of it is downright orwellian or plain stupid.
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Old 27th September 2019, 11:45 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Sure it can. That's why the bill of rights and checks and balances are integral to our form of government. So majority rule cannot trample on the rights of the individual.
While the checks and balances are in fact an integral part of our system of government - it's literally a system of checks and balances - the Bill of Rights is not.

Indeed, our system of government was initially implemented without the Bill of Rights. Recognizing that it's not integral was an important factor in getting buy-in on the integral stuff.
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Old 27th September 2019, 01:55 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
While the checks and balances are in fact an integral part of our system of government - it's literally a system of checks and balances - the Bill of Rights is not.

Indeed, our system of government was initially implemented without the Bill of Rights. Recognizing that it's not integral was an important factor in getting buy-in on the integral stuff.
I hate to burst your bubble but no it was not. In fact bill of rights was essential to getting the Constitution passed.
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Old 27th September 2019, 02:01 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I hate to burst your bubble but no it was not. In fact bill of rights was essential to getting the Constitution passed.
Quite correct. There was strong opposition to ratifying the Constitution unless it included a Bill of Rights.
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