[Continuation] House Impeachment Inquiry - part 3 - Page 10

Paul2 · 25th January 2020, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

The Constitution kinda does...It vests ALL executive power in the president. It doesn't even say it is limited like the legislative power given to Congress. As executive power goes, the Constitutional grant is absolute.

I went up the wrong tree with my first response here.

Instead, perhaps we need to clarify what "absolute" means here. My reading is that "absolute" means that all executive powers are vested in the president (which aligns with your reply to my first response). Absolute doesn't mean that execution of such powers must go unchallenged and can not be reversed. For instance, Congress may override a presidential veto by a 2/3 majority. Impeachment is another limitation of presidential power.

Meadmaker · 25th January 2020, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Update on the Pompeo interview. The State Department has released a statement (image in link). In it, Pompeo implies that Mary Louise Kelly misidentified Bangladesh as Ukraine.

This is very clearly a bad lie. Kelly has a masters in European studies. She definitely did not think that Ukraine was just off the Southern border of China.

It is also worth noting that this is not a statement from Mike Pompeo himself. It is a statement from The State Department, with the official seal and everything. This is how bad the White House has been corrupted under this administration. Make sure you're registered to vote.

I suppose it's weird what people get ticked off about. I brush off a lot of stuff Republicans do, but I find myself really ticked off at Pompeo over this story. He must really have a lot of contempt for the whole country if he thinks a reporter wouldn't know where Ukraine is. Does he think he's special because he knows? And does he think we will believe his hint that she didn't know?

Skeptic Ginger · 25th January 2020, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I like that too. that would probably require a comma though. As in

Gaslighting, our party.

Otherwise is seems to suggest they are gaslighting the party and not the public. We should keep working on it.

I was thinking more along the lines that they indeed gaslight their party members. Mostly that's who believes them.

Skeptic Ginger · 25th January 2020, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I'm not bothering. My blood pressure is high enough.

I'm not watching it either. Too maddening.

I Am The Scum · 25th January 2020, 04:50 PM

The Pompeo freakout has its own thread now.

a_unique_person · 25th January 2020, 04:50 PM

Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0

Secretly recorded somehow.

Trebuchet · 25th January 2020, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0

Secretly recorded somehow.

"Somehow", people are saying, involved carrying an iPad into a room with the President, telling it to record video, and placing it face down on the table.

As for "discussing ... sacking the ambassador": The "fake" news media are really giving Trump a pass on this. He said "take her out". I've never heard that as meaning someone should fire her. And as far as I know the only person in the room with the authority to do so was Trump himself.

I think he wanted her murdered. But he could murder an ambassador ~~on 5th Avenue~~ in Kiev on not lose any of his supporters.

Stacyhs · 25th January 2020, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

"Somehow", people are saying, involved carrying an iPad into a room with the President, telling it to record video, and placing it face down on the table.

As for "discussing ... sacking the ambassador": The "fake" news media are really giving Trump a pass on this. He said "take her out". I've never heard that as meaning someone should fire her. And as far as I know the only person in the room with the authority to do so was Trump himself.

I think he wanted her murdered. But he could murder an ambassador ~~on 5th Avenue~~ in Kiev on not lose any of his supporters.

As much as I despise Trump, I don't agree with you. He was just trying to look like the Big Tough Guy for those around him. I.E., he was showing off.

Delphic Oracle · 25th January 2020, 06:12 PM

Yes, politically-motivated personnel changes at a critical international diplomatic post in furtherance of a plan to cajole another country into supporting politically-motivated investigations against domestic rivals, that's probably bad without having to go b-movie script with it.

Craig4 · 25th January 2020, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I'm not bothering. My blood pressure is high enough.

I didn't even bother listening to the defense. They're just filthy Trumptrash so nothing they say can be believed. All of their kind come with the presumption of dishonesty so they aren't worth the attention of an American.

JoeMorgue · 25th January 2020, 06:54 PM

So Senator Marsha Blackburn was reading a book during the impeachment proceedings.

Senator Richard Burr was handing out fidget spinners to other Republicans because they were so "bored."

Guys... I'm not sure, but the Republicans might not be taking this seriously.

Stacyhs · 25th January 2020, 06:55 PM

The Dems' focus was on exactly what Trump is charged with and provided supporting evidence and its timeline.

The Repubs focus on "Witchhunt! Hoax! Overturn 2016 election! Keep Trump off 2020 ticket! Harassment! No crime!" Blah, blah, blah.

Meadmaker · 25th January 2020, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

The Dems' focus was on exactly what Trump is charged with and provided supporting evidence and its timeline.

The Repubs focus on "Witchhunt! Hoax! Overturn 2016 election! Keep Trump off 2020 ticket! Harassment! No crime!" Blah, blah, blah.

I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence.

Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.

Elagabalus · 25th January 2020, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence.

Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.

Shifty-eyed Schiff?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Shif...nt=firefox-b-1

He had points?

The Great Zaganza · 25th January 2020, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.

Which should tell you all, really.
If you have been conned, you will latch onto any excuse to ignore the advice of people telling you that you have been conned.

a_unique_person · 25th January 2020, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

As much as I despise Trump, I don't agree with you. He was just trying to look like the Big Tough Guy for those around him. I.E., he was showing off.

JTBT. Just Trump Being Trump

Stacyhs · 25th January 2020, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence.

I find it fascinating that the Trump defense includes accusations of Schiff lying. How ironic is that?

Quote:

Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.

Agreed that neither is relevant. It's pure distraction by Trump's defense.

Points like that only resonate with people who have already made up their minds that Trump did nothing wrong and are looking for something to support that belief. It has nothing to do with what he's accused of doing.

Trebuchet · 25th January 2020, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

I didn't even bother listening to the defense. They're just filthy Trumptrash so nothing they say can be believed. All of their kind come with the presumption of dishonesty so they aren't worth the attention of an American.

I have to admit I didn't listen to the prosecution, either. The whole proceding is a waste of time.

a_unique_person · 25th January 2020, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I have sigs turned off.

Quote:

“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marco

Squeegee Beckenheim · 26th January 2020, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I suppose it's weird what people get ticked off about. I brush off a lot of stuff Republicans do, but I find myself really ticked off at Pompeo over this story. He must really have a lot of contempt for the whole country if he thinks a reporter wouldn't know where Ukraine is. Does he think he's special because he knows? And does he think we will believe his hint that she didn't know?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

a_unique_person · 26th January 2020, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0

Secretly recorded somehow.

Trump only takes five minutes to remind everyone that he won the election.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 26th January 2020, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So Senator Marsha Blackburn was reading a book during the impeachment proceedings.

Senator Richard Burr was handing out fidget spinners to other Republicans because they were so "bored."

Guys... I'm not sure, but the Republicans might not be taking this seriously.

Despite it being against the rules to leave your seat during proceedings, up to 21 Republican Senators left the room entirely during the Democrat's presentations, often for hours at a time. One of them (I forget which off the top of my head) went and did an interview on Fox News while he was supposed to be in his seat. Another simply went to sleep.

Safe-Keeper · 26th January 2020, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0

Secretly recorded somehow.

I wish there were more inside videos like this. Maybe we should launch a Kickstarter to distribute tiny spy cams to everyone on the White House staff :P .

Squeegee Beckenheim · 26th January 2020, 05:08 AM

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/stat...668190215?s=20

Quote:

For a guy who definitely doesn’t know Lev Parnas,
@realDonaldTrump
sure has a lengthy conversation with the guy on a range of topics in this 2018 audio.

acbytesla · 26th January 2020, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Quote:

For a guy who definitely doesn’t know Lev Parnas,
@realDonaldTrump
sure has a lengthy conversation with the guy on a range of topics in this 2018 audio.

https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/stat...668190215?s=20

This is really hilarious. I know Parnas looks like a dope, but man I love this guy. He brought the goods. Pence said he didn't know him. It seems every time you turn around some Republican is denying knowing him and Parnas then provides the evidence.

Meadmaker · 26th January 2020, 08:39 AM

To be fair, the idea that Donald Trump could hold a conversation with someone and walk away not knowing who that person was or not remembering that person's role in the conversation doesn't seem implausible. He is both narcissistic and delusional. There's no particular reason to believe that he has actual awareness of who he is talking to at all times.

And if he just happens to demand firing an ambassador during that conversation, for most people that would be a pretty big deal and strong evidence that they were actually engaged in that conversation as a serious matter, but for Trump it could just be an impulsive outburst forgotten before dessert. He obviously didn't act on his own demand that Yovanovitch be fired at the time, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, and no one reminded him. A year later, the subject came up again and this time she was actually fired.

Meadmaker · 26th January 2020, 08:44 AM

I made sure to tune in to a program which I think often gives the greatest insight into how the public is perceiving important political current affairs. The program I'm referring to is the cold open of Saturday Night Live. It is often the case that you can see which side is most worthy of ridicule from their treatment.

If SNL is a bellwether, things are going pretty good for the Democrats.

For those not wanting to look it up, the skit featured Alan Dershowitz, along with McConnell et. al. discussing the progress of the trial with Satan, who was a fan of their work.

ETA: On the other hand, the ones that really show that one side or the other is worthy of ridicule are the ones that are actually funny. I wouldn't describe last night's cold open as one of the good ones.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 26th January 2020, 08:47 AM

This twitter thread breaks down the contents of the recording.

BobTheCoward · 26th January 2020, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

This twitter thread breaks down the contents of the recording.

Sounds like he talked to a lot of real winners that hour. I don't think it is fair to say that from this he knew Parnas.

Meadmaker · 26th January 2020, 09:09 AM

I was watching the cold open I referred to at Planet Fitness. The TV showing NBC at the gym is right next to the one with Fox News. Against my better judgement, I flipped over to it. (I almost never watch either Fox News or CNN. Neither is the least bit informative.)

As might be expected, they were going full bore* attack on "Biden family corruption". What I really found irritating about it is that, of course, they went beyond the possibility of anything remotely related to government, and got into Hunter's personal life. Apparently he got a stripper pregnant, or something. I really don't care. However, I thought it bizarre that someone defending Trump would try to cast aspersions on anyone based on their sexual relations with strippers. How can they keep a straight face when they do it?

The country is truly mad.

*Both senses of the word.

acbytesla · 26th January 2020, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

To be fair, the idea that Donald Trump could hold a conversation with someone and walk away not knowing who that person was or not remembering that person's role in the conversation doesn't seem implausible. He is both narcissistic and delusional. There's no particular reason to believe that he has actual awareness of who he is talking to at all times.

And if he just happens to demand firing an ambassador during that conversation, for most people that would be a pretty big deal and strong evidence that they were actually engaged in that conversation as a serious matter, but for Trump it could just be an impulsive outburst forgotten before dessert. He obviously didn't act on his own demand that Yovanovitch be fired at the time, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, and no one reminded him. A year later, the subject came up again and this time she was actually fired.

Your point is reasonable. I mean he has said he didn't know people he had sex with and even paid more than a $100,000 to not talk about it.

There's a point though where the denials become ridiculous.

The real question is why would you believe anything Trump says?

shemp · 26th January 2020, 09:24 AM

Democrats are having a field day after Trump's lawyers accidentally made the strongest case to call witnesses in his impeachment trial

Quote:

President Donald Trump's defense team repeatedly argued on Saturday that there isn't enough evidence to impeach him because Congress hasn't heard from any witnesses who had "direct contact" with the president.

If only there was some method by which witnesses could be called and compelled to testify.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 26th January 2020, 09:34 AM

I suspect that the reason the Republicans are going second is for precisely that kind of reason - the Democrats don't have a rebuttal to anything they say.

Not quite sure how the whole "Senators' questions" process works. Perhaps they can get that point across there.

Segnosaur · 26th January 2020, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Sounds like he talked to a lot of real winners that hour. I don't think it is fair to say that from this he knew Parnas.

Ummm ... If he didn't really know parnas, then why exactly would he get into discussions about foreign policy with someone there he didn't know? Sounds like a big security problem to me.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

Squeegee Beckenheim · 26th January 2020, 10:08 AM

https://twitter.com/extraface/status...54727666298880

Quote:

Strangely there’s tape of the president telling a guy he claims to have never met to execute an order that the president could easily do himself at any time under his powers.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 26th January 2020, 10:09 AM

https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status...45819564388353

Quote:

House Managers don’t actually know what is in the documents or how Bolton or Mulvaney would testify, but they want to find out.

The Administration does know what’s in the documents and what witnesses would say, but wants to keep it all hidden.

BobTheCoward · 26th January 2020, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

https://twitter.com/extraface/status...54727666298880

Parnas said the order part was directed at the white house aide there.

BobTheCoward · 26th January 2020, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

https://twitter.com/extraface/status...54727666298880

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Ummm ... If he didn't really know parnas, then why exactly would he get into discussions about foreign policy with someone there he didn't know? Sounds like a big security problem to me.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

Her has had multiple security violations. Even of he did know Parnas, he is demonstrating the same lack of awareness by having that conversation in front of other donors.

Cainkane1 · 26th January 2020, 10:24 AM

Trump will weather this storm and be reelected. Watch for looting, rioting, assaults, and fires being set. The left-wingers aka Socialists are very sore losers.

Meadmaker · 26th January 2020, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Ummm ... If he didn't really know parnas, then why exactly would he get into discussions about foreign policy with someone there he didn't know? Sounds like a big security problem to me.

Because Trump is a moron who can't resist talking about himself.

Did he know Lev Parnas? Probably. On the other hand, the tape is made with a bunch of donors. Who knows whether Trump had any more knowledge of Lev than "one of those guys I have to talk to because they give a lot of money."

My intention isn't to defend Trump, as such. I just look at this as one more "gotcha!" moment. Since he got into the race in 2015, he's been handing "gotchas" to the media day after day. He's a master of distraction, and his opponents in politics and the press fall for it every time.

I don't care if he knew Lev Parnas, and the fact that he's lying about this is no worse than his general propensity toward lying. There's no gotcha there.

25th January 2020, 04:33 PM	#361
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,592	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward The Constitution kinda does...It vests ALL executive power in the president. It doesn't even say it is limited like the legislative power given to Congress. As executive power goes, the Constitutional grant is absolute. I went up the wrong tree with my first response here. Instead, perhaps we need to clarify what "absolute" means here. My reading is that "absolute" means that all executive powers are vested in the president (which aligns with your reply to my first response). Absolute doesn't mean that execution of such powers must go unchallenged and can not be reversed. For instance, Congress may override a presidential veto by a 2/3 majority. Impeachment is another limitation of presidential power.
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,592	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

25th January 2020, 04:50 PM	#366
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,044	Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0 Secretly recorded somehow.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos Last edited by a_unique_person; 25th January 2020 at 05:01 PM.

25th January 2020, 05:27 PM	#367
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,066	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0 Secretly recorded somehow. "Somehow", people are saying, involved carrying an iPad into a room with the President, telling it to record video, and placing it face down on the table. As for "discussing ... sacking the ambassador": The "fake" news media are really giving Trump a pass on this. He said "take her out". I've never heard that as meaning someone should fire her. And as far as I know the only person in the room with the authority to do so was Trump himself. I think he wanted her murdered. But he could murder an ambassador ~~on 5th Avenue~~ in Kiev on not lose any of his supporters.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

25th January 2020, 06:54 PM	#371
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,693	So Senator Marsha Blackburn was reading a book during the impeachment proceedings. Senator Richard Burr was handing out fidget spinners to other Republicans because they were so "bored." Guys... I'm not sure, but the Republicans might not be taking this seriously.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

25th January 2020, 07:38 PM	#374
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,919	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence. Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people. Shifty-eyed Schiff? https://www.google.com/search?q=Shif...nt=firefox-b-1 He had points?
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,919

25th January 2020, 04:36 PM	#362
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,277	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum Update on the Pompeo interview. The State Department has released a statement (image in link). In it, Pompeo implies that Mary Louise Kelly misidentified Bangladesh as Ukraine. This is very clearly a bad lie. Kelly has a masters in European studies. She definitely did not think that Ukraine was just off the Southern border of China. It is also worth noting that this is not a statement from Mike Pompeo himself. It is a statement from The State Department, with the official seal and everything. This is how bad the White House has been corrupted under this administration. Make sure you're registered to vote. I suppose it's weird what people get ticked off about. I brush off a lot of stuff Republicans do, but I find myself really ticked off at Pompeo over this story. He must really have a lot of contempt for the whole country if he thinks a reporter wouldn't know where Ukraine is. Does he think he's special because he knows? And does he think we will believe his hint that she didn't know?

25th January 2020, 04:47 PM	#363
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,000	Originally Posted by acbytesla I like that too. that would probably require a comma though. As in Gaslighting, our party. Otherwise is seems to suggest they are gaslighting the party and not the public. We should keep working on it. I was thinking more along the lines that they indeed gaslight their party members. Mostly that's who believes them.

25th January 2020, 04:48 PM	#364
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,000	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I'm not bothering. My blood pressure is high enough. I'm not watching it either. Too maddening.

25th January 2020, 04:50 PM	#365
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,573	The Pompeo freakout has its own thread now.

25th January 2020, 05:47 PM	#368
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,029	Originally Posted by Trebuchet "Somehow", people are saying, involved carrying an iPad into a room with the President, telling it to record video, and placing it face down on the table. As for "discussing ... sacking the ambassador": The "fake" news media are really giving Trump a pass on this. He said "take her out". I've never heard that as meaning someone should fire her. And as far as I know the only person in the room with the authority to do so was Trump himself. I think he wanted her murdered. But he could murder an ambassador ~~on 5th Avenue~~ in Kiev on not lose any of his supporters. As much as I despise Trump, I don't agree with you. He was just trying to look like the Big Tough Guy for those around him. I.E., he was showing off.

25th January 2020, 06:12 PM	#369
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,371	Yes, politically-motivated personnel changes at a critical international diplomatic post in furtherance of a plan to cajole another country into supporting politically-motivated investigations against domestic rivals, that's probably bad without having to go b-movie script with it.

25th January 2020, 06:22 PM	#370
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,592	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I'm not bothering. My blood pressure is high enough. I didn't even bother listening to the defense. They're just filthy Trumptrash so nothing they say can be believed. All of their kind come with the presumption of dishonesty so they aren't worth the attention of an American.

25th January 2020, 06:55 PM	#372
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,029	The Dems' focus was on exactly what Trump is charged with and provided supporting evidence and its timeline. The Repubs focus on "Witchhunt! Hoax! Overturn 2016 election! Keep Trump off 2020 ticket! Harassment! No crime!" Blah, blah, blah.

25th January 2020, 07:31 PM	#373
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,277	Originally Posted by Stacyhs The Dems' focus was on exactly what Trump is charged with and provided supporting evidence and its timeline. The Repubs focus on "Witchhunt! Hoax! Overturn 2016 election! Keep Trump off 2020 ticket! Harassment! No crime!" Blah, blah, blah. I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence. Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.

25th January 2020, 07:39 PM	#375
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,682	Originally Posted by Meadmaker Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people. Which should tell you all, really. If you have been conned, you will latch onto any excuse to ignore the advice of people telling you that you have been conned.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

25th January 2020, 07:53 PM	#376
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,044	Originally Posted by Stacyhs As much as I despise Trump, I don't agree with you. He was just trying to look like the Big Tough Guy for those around him. I.E., he was showing off. JTBT. Just Trump Being Trump
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

25th January 2020, 08:00 PM	#377
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,029	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence. I find it fascinating that the Trump defense includes accusations of Schiff lying. How ironic is that? Quote: Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people. Agreed that neither is relevant. It's pure distraction by Trump's defense. Points like that only resonate with people who have already made up their minds that Trump did nothing wrong and are looking for something to support that belief. It has nothing to do with what he's accused of doing.

25th January 2020, 09:43 PM	#378
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,066	Originally Posted by Craig4 I didn't even bother listening to the defense. They're just filthy Trumptrash so nothing they say can be believed. All of their kind come with the presumption of dishonesty so they aren't worth the attention of an American. I have to admit I didn't listen to the prosecution, either. The whole proceding is a waste of time.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

25th January 2020, 11:59 PM	#379
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,044	Originally Posted by theprestige I have sigs turned off. Quote: “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marco
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

26th January 2020, 03:06 AM	#381
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,044	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0 Secretly recorded somehow. Trump only takes five minutes to remind everyone that he won the election.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

26th January 2020, 03:11 AM	#382
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,254	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So Senator Marsha Blackburn was reading a book during the impeachment proceedings. Senator Richard Burr was handing out fidget spinners to other Republicans because they were so "bored." Guys... I'm not sure, but the Republicans might not be taking this seriously. Despite it being against the rules to leave your seat during proceedings, up to 21 Republican Senators left the room entirely during the Democrat's presentations, often for hours at a time. One of them (I forget which off the top of my head) went and did an interview on Fox News while he was supposed to be in his seat. Another simply went to sleep.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

26th January 2020, 03:40 AM	#383
Safe-Keeper Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 10,395	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0 Secretly recorded somehow. I wish there were more inside videos like this. Maybe we should launch a Kickstarter to distribute tiny spy cams to everyone on the White House staff :P .
	__________________ "He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

26th January 2020, 05:08 AM	#384
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,254	https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/stat...668190215?s=20 Quote: For a guy who definitely doesn’t know Lev Parnas, @realDonaldTrump sure has a lengthy conversation with the guy on a range of topics in this 2018 audio.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

26th January 2020, 08:20 AM	#385
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,309	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Quote: For a guy who definitely doesn’t know Lev Parnas, @realDonaldTrump sure has a lengthy conversation with the guy on a range of topics in this 2018 audio. https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/stat...668190215?s=20 This is really hilarious. I know Parnas looks like a dope, but man I love this guy. He brought the goods. Pence said he didn't know him. It seems every time you turn around some Republican is denying knowing him and Parnas then provides the evidence.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

26th January 2020, 08:39 AM	#386
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,277	To be fair, the idea that Donald Trump could hold a conversation with someone and walk away not knowing who that person was or not remembering that person's role in the conversation doesn't seem implausible. He is both narcissistic and delusional. There's no particular reason to believe that he has actual awareness of who he is talking to at all times. And if he just happens to demand firing an ambassador during that conversation, for most people that would be a pretty big deal and strong evidence that they were actually engaged in that conversation as a serious matter, but for Trump it could just be an impulsive outburst forgotten before dessert. He obviously didn't act on his own demand that Yovanovitch be fired at the time, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, and no one reminded him. A year later, the subject came up again and this time she was actually fired.
	Last edited by Meadmaker; 26th January 2020 at 08:40 AM.

26th January 2020, 08:44 AM	#387
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,277	I made sure to tune in to a program which I think often gives the greatest insight into how the public is perceiving important political current affairs. The program I'm referring to is the cold open of Saturday Night Live. It is often the case that you can see which side is most worthy of ridicule from their treatment. If SNL is a bellwether, things are going pretty good for the Democrats. For those not wanting to look it up, the skit featured Alan Dershowitz, along with McConnell et. al. discussing the progress of the trial with Satan, who was a fan of their work. ETA: On the other hand, the ones that really show that one side or the other is worthy of ridicule are the ones that are actually funny. I wouldn't describe last night's cold open as one of the good ones.
	Last edited by Meadmaker; 26th January 2020 at 08:52 AM.

26th January 2020, 08:47 AM	#388
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,254	This twitter thread breaks down the contents of the recording.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

26th January 2020, 09:08 AM	#389
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,256	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim This twitter thread breaks down the contents of the recording. Sounds like he talked to a lot of real winners that hour. I don't think it is fair to say that from this he knew Parnas.

26th January 2020, 09:09 AM	#390
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,277	I was watching the cold open I referred to at Planet Fitness. The TV showing NBC at the gym is right next to the one with Fox News. Against my better judgement, I flipped over to it. (I almost never watch either Fox News or CNN. Neither is the least bit informative.) As might be expected, they were going full bore* attack on "Biden family corruption". What I really found irritating about it is that, of course, they went beyond the possibility of anything remotely related to government, and got into Hunter's personal life. Apparently he got a stripper pregnant, or something. I really don't care. However, I thought it bizarre that someone defending Trump would try to cast aspersions on anyone based on their sexual relations with strippers. How can they keep a straight face when they do it? The country is truly mad. *Both senses of the word.
	Last edited by Meadmaker; 26th January 2020 at 09:11 AM.

26th January 2020, 09:23 AM	#391
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,309	Originally Posted by Meadmaker To be fair, the idea that Donald Trump could hold a conversation with someone and walk away not knowing who that person was or not remembering that person's role in the conversation doesn't seem implausible. He is both narcissistic and delusional. There's no particular reason to believe that he has actual awareness of who he is talking to at all times. And if he just happens to demand firing an ambassador during that conversation, for most people that would be a pretty big deal and strong evidence that they were actually engaged in that conversation as a serious matter, but for Trump it could just be an impulsive outburst forgotten before dessert. He obviously didn't act on his own demand that Yovanovitch be fired at the time, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, and no one reminded him. A year later, the subject came up again and this time she was actually fired. Your point is reasonable. I mean he has said he didn't know people he had sex with and even paid more than a $100,000 to not talk about it. There's a point though where the denials become ridiculous. The real question is why would you believe anything Trump says?
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

26th January 2020, 09:24 AM	#392
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,317	Democrats are having a field day after Trump's lawyers accidentally made the strongest case to call witnesses in his impeachment trial Quote: President Donald Trump's defense team repeatedly argued on Saturday that there isn't enough evidence to impeach him because Congress hasn't heard from any witnesses who had "direct contact" with the president. If only there was some method by which witnesses could be called and compelled to testify.
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

26th January 2020, 09:34 AM	#393
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,254	I suspect that the reason the Republicans are going second is for precisely that kind of reason - the Democrats don't have a rebuttal to anything they say. Not quite sure how the whole "Senators' questions" process works. Perhaps they can get that point across there.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

26th January 2020, 09:51 AM	#394
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,124	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Sounds like he talked to a lot of real winners that hour. I don't think it is fair to say that from this he knew Parnas. Ummm ... If he didn't really know parnas, then why exactly would he get into discussions about foreign policy with someone there he didn't know? Sounds like a big security problem to me. Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk
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26th January 2020, 10:08 AM	#395
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,254	https://twitter.com/extraface/status...54727666298880 Quote: Strangely there’s tape of the president telling a guy he claims to have never met to execute an order that the president could easily do himself at any time under his powers.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

26th January 2020, 10:09 AM	#396
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,254	https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status...45819564388353 Quote: House Managers don’t actually know what is in the documents or how Bolton or Mulvaney would testify, but they want to find out. The Administration does know what’s in the documents and what witnesses would say, but wants to keep it all hidden.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.