[Merged] Missing children, fugitive parents, and drive-by shootings/Lori Vallow in court. - Page 3

Thermal · 12th February 2020, 08:59 PM

Gonna go out on a limb and suggest the cult thing is just a sidenote. These are a troupe of psychos with body bags piling up before the cult thing (still unevidenced, they are LDS and attending a conventional Mormon church in Hawaii even now).

The whole cult angle appears to be hearsay from the other family members. Chaddy Chad wrote some apocalyptic fiction. So did Steven King and others.

This is about psychopaths crossing paths in a perfect storm, I'm betting.

StillSleepy · 12th February 2020, 09:27 PM

The "cult" could literally just be Chad and/or Lori, it's not all that uncommon for individuals to believe things much different from their denominations or to develop delusions of being "special" within the context of their religion (Note the narcissistic aspect of the latter). That being said, you are correct that the accusations are hearsay and we would need evidence to show otherwise.

StillSleepy · 12th February 2020, 09:39 PM

East Idaho News reports that in a Dateline special:

Quote:

“Where Are The Children?” includes an exclusive interview with Lori’s close friend, April Raymond, who revealed to NBC News’ Keith Morrison that Lori is “telling people there’s a lot of media hype around her right now. And she’s waiting for that to die down.”

Thermal · 12th February 2020, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

East Idaho News reports that in a Dateline special:

'Die down'.

Phrasing, Lori.

eta: what could waiting possibly gain her, while the children are still MIA? Does she think the press/public/prosecutor will go easier on her if they cool off a little before she says she misplaced or murdered her children last September?

There's another agenda at work here. Being in Hawaii is either providing an alibi while others (shudder) act on the mainland, or are just trying to stay out of convenient reach. If they wanted to disappear, the time to do it is before warrants go out for them and they are stuck on a small island.

StillSleepy · 13th February 2020, 03:06 PM

Inside Edition conducted an interview with a private investigator hired by Brandon Boudreaux to investigate Melani post-drive-by, Rich Robertson.

Takeaways are that Melani was trying to find her children, even offering a $10,000 reward for information. Melani and Cox packed up and moved over 31 October and 1 November (abandoning her children's belongings on the curb), arriving in Rexburg on 4 November. It was realized during the monitoring after they moved that JJ and Tylee weren't anywhere to be seen, which prompted the welfare check.

Melani's arrest happened in mid-November. Brandon and Melani are in an ongoing custody battle, and Melani missed an exchange day just prior to the drive-by. Brandon is currently in hiding with the children.

StillSleepy · 13th February 2020, 05:08 PM

A tidbit that's more numerological at this point but may be useful for some insight into the family dynamic: Tylee's birthday is allegedly 24 September.

William Parcher · 13th February 2020, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

A tidbit that's more numerological at this point but may be useful for some insight into the family dynamic: Tylee's birthday is allegedly 24 September.

She may have been tied up by a person named Lee.

Checkmite · 14th February 2020, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

The "cult" could literally just be Chad and/or Lori, it's not all that uncommon for individuals to believe things much different from their denominations or to develop delusions of being "special" within the context of their religion (Note the narcissistic aspect of the latter). That being said, you are correct that the accusations are hearsay and we would need evidence to show otherwise.

If Charles Vallow said in his divorce filing that Lori told him that she was a "god" or "translated being" or whatnot, that is not hearsay, that is testimony. It is an active participant in a conversation, describing that conversation first-hand.

Hearsay would be Charles Vallow's (hypothetical) brother saying "Charles told me that Lori said such-and-such."

StillSleepy · 14th February 2020, 08:55 AM

From KTVB7:

Quote:

Before the family moved to Rexburg, JJ attended Laurens Institute For Education in Gilbert, Arizona.

The school tells KTVB that it uses an app called Bloomz, which allows a school to share information with parents and students. Up until a week ago, an account named Lori Vallow was monitoring JJ's classroom communication system, even though JJ hasn't been enrolled in the school since September 2019. According to the school, the name Lori Vallow has been tracked multiple times using the app. The school discovered it a week ago and says that's when it removed her access to the app.

Quote:

Information from the school starts on Feb. 5, 2019 when JJ was absent from L.I.F.E. Academy.

On Feb. 11, his father Charles Vallow visits the school and claims Lori had "gone crazy" and was hearing religious voices. She had disappeared and no one knew where she was. Charles also told the school he had a protection order against Lori and that he would be pulling JJ out of school and taking him out of state until he was safe.

Around the same time, Feb. 15, Charles filed for divorce from Lori.

At the end of February, Charles and JJ return to L.I.F.E. Academy and Lori is still MIA.

On March 7, Charles formally withdrew JJ from school, saying they were going to stay with family in Texas.

Fast forward to late June, Lori contacts L.I.F.E. saying the family was back in Gilbert. She also enrolled JJ in the school's summer program.

Mid-July, on the 11th, Charles Vallow is shot and killed by Lori's brother, Alex Cox. But the school wouldn't find out about his death until a week later, when Lori told them Charles had committed suicide.

L.I.F.E. did their own research and learned Charles was killed as part of a family dispute, so to "do due diligence" the school filed a report with Arizona's Department of Child Safety.

Thermal · 14th February 2020, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

If Charles Vallow said in his divorce filing that Lori told him that she was a "god" or "translated being" or whatnot, that is not hearsay, that is testimony. It is an active participant in a conversation, describing that conversation first-hand.

Hearsay would be Charles Vallow's (hypothetical) brother saying "Charles told me that Lori said such-and-such."

The actual existence of any cult, though, is not even testified to. Where is this cult? Who is in it?

Lori was talking goofy. That doesn't support the existence of others.

DragonLady · 14th February 2020, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

The actual existence of any cult, though, is not even testified to. Where is this cult? Who is in it?

Lori was talking goofy. That doesn't support the existence of others.

Aren't those fundamental Mormon beliefs? I suppose we could argue whether LDS is a cult, but (where's Randfan when we need him?) I think the Mormons believe everyone who is a qualified member of their church is (or will be?) a God, and will eventually have a planet of their own to rule?

ETA: Here's a wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(Mormonism)

Quote:

In the theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), translation refers to being physically changed by God from a mortal human being to an immortal human being. A person that has been translated is referred to as a translated being.

StillSleepy · 14th February 2020, 02:42 PM

The alleged "cult" beliefs are more along the lines of an imminent Doomsday (sometime in July?), with Lori and Chad being "chosen" as part of a literal 144,000 (which tends to become the Christian equivalent of saying everyone who doesn't worship you is ~~subhuman and available for exploitation~~ doomed to damnation). Chad is alleged to have prescient visions, one of his friends also claims to have visions. The friend claims both she and Chad had visions of Charles Vallow's (IIRC, there's too many bodies) death.

Thermal · 14th February 2020, 04:25 PM

Anybody heard from Chad's 5 kids? Just sayin....

Checkmite · 14th February 2020, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by DragonLady

Aren't those fundamental Mormon beliefs? I suppose we could argue whether LDS is a cult, but (where's Randfan when we need him?) I think the Mormons believe everyone who is a qualified member of their church is (or will be?) a God, and will eventually have a planet of their own to rule?

ETA: Here's a wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(Mormonism)

I have not heard of the "everyone gets to be a god" bonus; but according to the Wikipage, it seems "Translation" is something that has only happened to a select few biblical figures; i.e., it's not something that happens to everyday people, even if they're Mormon. I do not believe Mormonism gives parishioners the authority to kill people they feel are obstacles, as Charles indicates Lori threatened to do to him.

It does seem to be the case that Lori's and Chad's beliefs are originally informed by Mormonism, but seem to have progressed a little ways beyond that if they are declaring themselves to be prophets. Perhaps sort of like how Warren Jeffs' cult off-shot from Mormonism; or how the apocalyptic Branch Davidian cult originally began as Seventh-Day Adventists.

Chad and Lori's first known interaction was via an end-times podcast. The site that used to host them has reportedly removed the episodes and issued a statement disclaiming any association with the Daybells and their podcast. If those episodes were available somewhere there might be clues to their precise believes inside them - although I have to admit I'm personally not that keen on listening to hours of end-times hokum to find them.

Checkmite · 14th February 2020, 07:17 PM

NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now.

Mike! · 14th February 2020, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now.

Well it's going to be a lot harder for them to keep up this charade now. Wonder what'll happen next. That storage shed video sure is damning.

Trebuchet · 15th February 2020, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

Well it's going to be a lot harder for them to keep up this charade now. Wonder what'll happen next. That storage shed video sure is damning.

My wife is watching it now from the DVR. Lot's of weirdness there.

Gord_in_Toronto · 15th February 2020, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now.

Thanks Checkmite. I just caught the last few minutes but the impression I got was that the matter was "unresolved". What happens now?

StillSleepy · 15th February 2020, 10:15 AM

We wait for something to give.

Mike! · 15th February 2020, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Thanks Checkmite. I just caught the last few minutes but the impression I got was that the matter was "unresolved". What happens now?

Up until now, most of this story was being pieced together from various news sources, mainly local news to the related events, mostly on discussion boards just like us. Now it's gotten two hours worth of detailed attention on a high rated show, on a major broadcast network. This level of attention focused on them will make it significantly harder to keep the truth, whatever it may be, hidden for much longer.
Hope these two, and apparently a third accomplice, don't escape justice...

It really does sort of feel like they buy their own BS, and are trying to simply put off all their troubles till the world ends in July.

StillSleepy · 15th February 2020, 10:23 AM

I was thinking more along the lines of (subconsciously?) basking in the limelight. Alternatively, they may be disconnected enough to actually think there's some advantage to "letting the media hype die down", which is a question of how soon in and of itself.

StillSleepy · 15th February 2020, 12:11 PM

KTVB7 interviewed Dateline's Keith Morrison:

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/cr...b-59aaf8a6edbc

Aside from his own take on the situation, he states that Lori was making dancing videos for Chad while still married to Charles Vallow. This was not included in the special.

StillSleepy · 15th February 2020, 09:24 PM

Idaho State Journal reports a possible sighting of Tylee in Nashville, TN on 22 December:

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/ne...ba05bee8e.html

Article seems to be based more on attention being drawn to an individual making a report than on any sort of official statement from law enforcement. The report was made two days after the encounter.

Thermal · 17th February 2020, 08:19 PM

And the psychos are back on the menu, boys.

Lori and Chad lit out of Kauai, but only appeared to jump over to Maui.

https://komonews.com/news/local/mom-...th-new-husband

Also, was reading about why there have been no arrests. It seems Idaho can't find a crime to charge them with.

In Idaho, it is not a crime to not report your children missing, as counterintuitive as that may seem. Apparently, you normally either have a body and question/charge the parents, or...well, not much. Other states have made this a crime (see Casey Anthony) to not report a missing minor. Idaho gave it a pass.

pgwenthold · 17th February 2020, 08:26 PM

This is why, as I said, the answer is to go through child services, and require the parents to show in court and explain where the children are. For the safety of the kids.

If the parents don't show, charge them with contempt.

Thermal · 17th February 2020, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

This is why, as I said, the answer is to go through child services, and require the parents to show in court and explain where the children are. For the safety of the kids.

If the parents don't show, charge them with contempt.

That happened earlier (demand to produce children and a no-show), but Idaho wants something to actually charge them with. Contempt is a misdemeanor, punishable with up to $5K/5 days. As odd as it seems, they are breaking no other laws.

I would assume that a child...not being around...would be evidence on its own of neglect, but apparently that is not the case in Idaho.

StillSleepy · 17th February 2020, 08:48 PM

They already can be charged with contempt, it's just not something Idaho normally extradites over.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see previous post.

Checkmite · 18th February 2020, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

They already can be charged with contempt, it's just not something Idaho normally extradites over.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's something most states extradite over.

Mike! · 18th February 2020, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

And the psychos are back on the menu, boys.

Lori and Chad lit out of Kauai, but only appeared to jump over to Maui.

https://komonews.com/news/local/mom-...th-new-husband

Also, was reading about why there have been no arrests. It seems Idaho can't find a crime to charge them with.

In Idaho, it is not a crime to not report your children missing, as counterintuitive as that may seem. Apparently, you normally either have a body and question/charge the parents, or...well, not much. Other states have made this a crime (see Casey Anthony) to not report a missing minor. Idaho gave it a pass.

In other words, it's the perfect place to move to if you want to send your kids on a trip to Belize.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

StillSleepy · 18th February 2020, 02:58 PM

It seems that if Idaho wanted them extradited it would have to pay to do so, so it would seem that an earlier guess that Idaho would wait and try to make a case for a more severe crime that would stick would be correct. To be fair, if you know your suspects are somewhere specific and relatively isolated and that they can't directly interfere with your investigation, you wouldn't necessarily be in a hurry to change the playing field. Problems there are that they may not intend to ever come back, instead opting for the super special Koolaid in July, or that you may gain more with interrogation.

StillSleepy · 19th February 2020, 02:15 PM

The Dateline special is now available on NBC's site.

William Parcher · 20th February 2020, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

And the psychos are back on the menu, boys.

Lori and Chad lit out of Kauai, but only appeared to jump over to Maui.

https://komonews.com/news/local/mom-...th-new-husband

Daily Mail now reports that the couple have returned to Kauai after a two-day vacation in Maui.

Thermal · 20th February 2020, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Daily Mail now reports that the couple have returned to Kauai after a two-day vacation in Maui.

Yeah, after staying at $500 per night digs there. Although that is cheap by Maui standards, they do still seem to be pretty flush in cash.

Darat · 20th February 2020, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Yeah, after staying at $500 per night digs there. Although that is cheap by Maui standards, they do still seem to be pretty flush in cash.

Got to do something with all that child support money!

StillSleepy · 20th February 2020, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Five kids and no money and his sister gets everything.

Talk about mood whiplash.

abaddon · 20th February 2020, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Got to do something with all that child support money!

Interesting thing that. As a divorced father of two children, I have opinions on the matter.

wasapi · 20th February 2020, 07:08 PM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...7cHZPtCh5RkAFA

The mother and husband have been arrested, and held on a 4 million bond.

I think we know where the kids are.

Thermal · 20th February 2020, 07:20 PM

About damn time.

I might hazard a guess about what the kids are, but where? Beats me.

eta: it's a $5mil warrant from Idaho, the primary charges being 2 felony counts of desertion and nonsupport of dependent children.

Adding to the wish list, "[Vallow] was also charged with arrests and seizures - resisting or obstructing officers, criminal solicitation to commit a crime, and contempt of court".

Solicitation, huh? Sounds like somebody talked.

StillSleepy · 20th February 2020, 09:05 PM

She has a court date to "waive or fight her extradition to Idaho." Not familiar with Idaho law to say for sure, but the solicitation charge sounds too weak to be regarding Cox, which leads me to one of my back burner suspicions that the friend that supposedly was taking care of the children actually was taking care of the children but lied to police. I'd say it's far more likely to involve a heretofore unmentioned party and situation though.

casebro · 20th February 2020, 09:10 PM

$4M sounds a bit high for leaving the kids at the sitters too long.

Solicitation- of the drive-by?

12th February 2020, 08:59 PM	#81
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Gonna go out on a limb and suggest the cult thing is just a sidenote. These are a troupe of psychos with body bags piling up before the cult thing (still unevidenced, they are LDS and attending a conventional Mormon church in Hawaii even now). The whole cult angle appears to be hearsay from the other family members. Chaddy Chad wrote some apocalyptic fiction. So did Steven King and others. This is about psychopaths crossing paths in a perfect storm, I'm betting.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

12th February 2020, 09:41 PM	#84
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by StillSleepy East Idaho News reports that in a Dateline special: 'Die down'. Phrasing, Lori. eta: what could waiting possibly gain her, while the children are still MIA? Does she think the press/public/prosecutor will go easier on her if they cool off a little before she says she misplaced or murdered her children last September? There's another agenda at work here. Being in Hawaii is either providing an alibi while others (shudder) act on the mainland, or are just trying to stay out of convenient reach. If they wanted to disappear, the time to do it is before warrants go out for them and they are stuck on a small island.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain Last edited by Thermal; 12th February 2020 at 10:35 PM.

13th February 2020, 03:06 PM	#85
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Inside Edition conducted an interview with a private investigator hired by Brandon Boudreaux to investigate Melani post-drive-by, Rich Robertson. Takeaways are that Melani was trying to find her children, even offering a $10,000 reward for information. Melani and Cox packed up and moved over 31 October and 1 November (abandoning her children's belongings on the curb), arriving in Rexburg on 4 November. It was realized during the monitoring after they moved that JJ and Tylee weren't anywhere to be seen, which prompted the welfare check. Melani's arrest happened in mid-November. Brandon and Melani are in an ongoing custody battle, and Melani missed an exchange day just prior to the drive-by. Brandon is currently in hiding with the children.
	Last edited by StillSleepy; 13th February 2020 at 03:06 PM. Reason: spacing

13th February 2020, 05:11 PM	#87
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,762	Originally Posted by StillSleepy A tidbit that's more numerological at this point but may be useful for some insight into the family dynamic: Tylee's birthday is allegedly 24 September. She may have been tied up by a person named Lee.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

14th February 2020, 12:03 AM	#88
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,393	Originally Posted by StillSleepy The "cult" could literally just be Chad and/or Lori, it's not all that uncommon for individuals to believe things much different from their denominations or to develop delusions of being "special" within the context of their religion (Note the narcissistic aspect of the latter). That being said, you are correct that the accusations are hearsay and we would need evidence to show otherwise. If Charles Vallow said in his divorce filing that Lori told him that she was a "god" or "translated being" or whatnot, that is not hearsay, that is testimony. It is an active participant in a conversation, describing that conversation first-hand. Hearsay would be Charles Vallow's (hypothetical) brother saying "Charles told me that Lori said such-and-such."
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 Last edited by Checkmite; 14th February 2020 at 12:08 AM.

12th February 2020, 09:27 PM	#82
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	The "cult" could literally just be Chad and/or Lori, it's not all that uncommon for individuals to believe things much different from their denominations or to develop delusions of being "special" within the context of their religion (Note the narcissistic aspect of the latter). That being said, you are correct that the accusations are hearsay and we would need evidence to show otherwise.

12th February 2020, 09:39 PM	#83
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	East Idaho News reports that in a Dateline special: Quote: “Where Are The Children?” includes an exclusive interview with Lori’s close friend, April Raymond, who revealed to NBC News’ Keith Morrison that Lori is “telling people there’s a lot of media hype around her right now. And she’s waiting for that to die down.”

13th February 2020, 05:08 PM	#86
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	A tidbit that's more numerological at this point but may be useful for some insight into the family dynamic: Tylee's birthday is allegedly 24 September.

14th February 2020, 08:55 AM	#89
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	From KTVB7: Quote: Before the family moved to Rexburg, JJ attended Laurens Institute For Education in Gilbert, Arizona. The school tells KTVB that it uses an app called Bloomz, which allows a school to share information with parents and students. Up until a week ago, an account named Lori Vallow was monitoring JJ's classroom communication system, even though JJ hasn't been enrolled in the school since September 2019. According to the school, the name Lori Vallow has been tracked multiple times using the app. The school discovered it a week ago and says that's when it removed her access to the app. Quote: Information from the school starts on Feb. 5, 2019 when JJ was absent from L.I.F.E. Academy. On Feb. 11, his father Charles Vallow visits the school and claims Lori had "gone crazy" and was hearing religious voices. She had disappeared and no one knew where she was. Charles also told the school he had a protection order against Lori and that he would be pulling JJ out of school and taking him out of state until he was safe. Around the same time, Feb. 15, Charles filed for divorce from Lori. At the end of February, Charles and JJ return to L.I.F.E. Academy and Lori is still MIA. On March 7, Charles formally withdrew JJ from school, saying they were going to stay with family in Texas. Fast forward to late June, Lori contacts L.I.F.E. saying the family was back in Gilbert. She also enrolled JJ in the school's summer program. Mid-July, on the 11th, Charles Vallow is shot and killed by Lori's brother, Alex Cox. But the school wouldn't find out about his death until a week later, when Lori told them Charles had committed suicide. L.I.F.E. did their own research and learned Charles was killed as part of a family dispute, so to "do due diligence" the school filed a report with Arizona's Department of Child Safety.

14th February 2020, 01:39 PM	#90
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by Checkmite If Charles Vallow said in his divorce filing that Lori told him that she was a "god" or "translated being" or whatnot, that is not hearsay, that is testimony. It is an active participant in a conversation, describing that conversation first-hand. Hearsay would be Charles Vallow's (hypothetical) brother saying "Charles told me that Lori said such-and-such." The actual existence of any cult, though, is not even testified to. Where is this cult? Who is in it? Lori was talking goofy. That doesn't support the existence of others.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

14th February 2020, 02:29 PM	#91
DragonLady Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,588	Originally Posted by Thermal The actual existence of any cult, though, is not even testified to. Where is this cult? Who is in it? Lori was talking goofy. That doesn't support the existence of others. Aren't those fundamental Mormon beliefs? I suppose we could argue whether LDS is a cult, but (where's Randfan when we need him?) I think the Mormons believe everyone who is a qualified member of their church is (or will be?) a God, and will eventually have a planet of their own to rule? ETA: Here's a wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(Mormonism) Quote: In the theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), translation refers to being physically changed by God from a mortal human being to an immortal human being. A person that has been translated is referred to as a translated being.
DragonLady Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,588	__________________ http://www.troubador.co.uk/book_info.asp?bookid=2499 “She would be half a planet away, floating in a turquoise sea, dancing by moonlight to flamenco guitar.” ~ Janet Fitch The Gweat and Tewwible Winged One Last edited by DragonLady; 14th February 2020 at 02:31 PM. Reason: add link and quote

14th February 2020, 02:42 PM	#92
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	The alleged "cult" beliefs are more along the lines of an imminent Doomsday (sometime in July?), with Lori and Chad being "chosen" as part of a literal 144,000 (which tends to become the Christian equivalent of saying everyone who doesn't worship you is ~~subhuman and available for exploitation~~ doomed to damnation). Chad is alleged to have prescient visions, one of his friends also claims to have visions. The friend claims both she and Chad had visions of Charles Vallow's (IIRC, there's too many bodies) death.

14th February 2020, 04:25 PM	#93
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Anybody heard from Chad's 5 kids? Just sayin....
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

14th February 2020, 05:06 PM	#94
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,393	Originally Posted by DragonLady Aren't those fundamental Mormon beliefs? I suppose we could argue whether LDS is a cult, but (where's Randfan when we need him?) I think the Mormons believe everyone who is a qualified member of their church is (or will be?) a God, and will eventually have a planet of their own to rule? ETA: Here's a wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(Mormonism) I have not heard of the "everyone gets to be a god" bonus; but according to the Wikipage, it seems "Translation" is something that has only happened to a select few biblical figures; i.e., it's not something that happens to everyday people, even if they're Mormon. I do not believe Mormonism gives parishioners the authority to kill people they feel are obstacles, as Charles indicates Lori threatened to do to him. It does seem to be the case that Lori's and Chad's beliefs are originally informed by Mormonism, but seem to have progressed a little ways beyond that if they are declaring themselves to be prophets. Perhaps sort of like how Warren Jeffs' cult off-shot from Mormonism; or how the apocalyptic Branch Davidian cult originally began as Seventh-Day Adventists. Chad and Lori's first known interaction was via an end-times podcast. The site that used to host them has reportedly removed the episodes and issued a statement disclaiming any association with the Daybells and their podcast. If those episodes were available somewhere there might be clues to their precise believes inside them - although I have to admit I'm personally not that keen on listening to hours of end-times hokum to find them.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

14th February 2020, 07:17 PM	#95
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,393	NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

14th February 2020, 08:57 PM	#96
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 40,257	Originally Posted by Checkmite NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now. Well it's going to be a lot harder for them to keep up this charade now. Wonder what'll happen next. That storage shed video sure is damning.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." Last edited by Mike!; 14th February 2020 at 08:59 PM.

15th February 2020, 09:25 AM	#97
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,059	Originally Posted by Mike! Well it's going to be a lot harder for them to keep up this charade now. Wonder what'll happen next. That storage shed video sure is damning. My wife is watching it now from the DVR. Lot's of weirdness there.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

15th February 2020, 09:55 AM	#98
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,430	Originally Posted by Checkmite NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now. Thanks Checkmite. I just caught the last few minutes but the impression I got was that the matter was "unresolved". What happens now?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

15th February 2020, 10:15 AM	#99
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	We wait for something to give.

15th February 2020, 10:18 AM	#100
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 40,257	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Thanks Checkmite. I just caught the last few minutes but the impression I got was that the matter was "unresolved". What happens now? Up until now, most of this story was being pieced together from various news sources, mainly local news to the related events, mostly on discussion boards just like us. Now it's gotten two hours worth of detailed attention on a high rated show, on a major broadcast network. This level of attention focused on them will make it significantly harder to keep the truth, whatever it may be, hidden for much longer. Hope these two, and apparently a third accomplice, don't escape justice... It really does sort of feel like they buy their own BS, and are trying to simply put off all their troubles till the world ends in July.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." Last edited by Mike!; 15th February 2020 at 10:20 AM.

15th February 2020, 10:23 AM	#101
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	I was thinking more along the lines of (subconsciously?) basking in the limelight. Alternatively, they may be disconnected enough to actually think there's some advantage to "letting the media hype die down", which is a question of how soon in and of itself.
	Last edited by StillSleepy; 15th February 2020 at 10:26 AM.

15th February 2020, 12:11 PM	#102
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	KTVB7 interviewed Dateline's Keith Morrison: https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/cr...b-59aaf8a6edbc Aside from his own take on the situation, he states that Lori was making dancing videos for Chad while still married to Charles Vallow. This was not included in the special.

15th February 2020, 09:24 PM	#103
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Idaho State Journal reports a possible sighting of Tylee in Nashville, TN on 22 December: https://www.idahostatejournal.com/ne...ba05bee8e.html Article seems to be based more on attention being drawn to an individual making a report than on any sort of official statement from law enforcement. The report was made two days after the encounter.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

17th February 2020, 08:19 PM	#104
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	And the psychos are back on the menu, boys. Lori and Chad lit out of Kauai, but only appeared to jump over to Maui. https://komonews.com/news/local/mom-...th-new-husband Also, was reading about why there have been no arrests. It seems Idaho can't find a crime to charge them with. In Idaho, it is not a crime to not report your children missing, as counterintuitive as that may seem. Apparently, you normally either have a body and question/charge the parents, or...well, not much. Other states have made this a crime (see Casey Anthony) to not report a missing minor. Idaho gave it a pass.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

17th February 2020, 08:26 PM	#105
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 20,133	This is why, as I said, the answer is to go through child services, and require the parents to show in court and explain where the children are. For the safety of the kids. If the parents don't show, charge them with contempt.
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

17th February 2020, 08:42 PM	#106
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by pgwenthold This is why, as I said, the answer is to go through child services, and require the parents to show in court and explain where the children are. For the safety of the kids. If the parents don't show, charge them with contempt. That happened earlier (demand to produce children and a no-show), but Idaho wants something to actually charge them with. Contempt is a misdemeanor, punishable with up to $5K/5 days. As odd as it seems, they are breaking no other laws. I would assume that a child...not being around...would be evidence on its own of neglect, but apparently that is not the case in Idaho.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

17th February 2020, 08:48 PM	#107
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	They already can be charged with contempt, it's just not something Idaho normally extradites over. Edit: Sorry, didn't see previous post.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish” Last edited by StillSleepy; 17th February 2020 at 08:49 PM.

18th February 2020, 12:56 AM	#108
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,393	Originally Posted by StillSleepy They already can be charged with contempt, it's just not something Idaho normally extradites over. For what it's worth, I don't think it's something most states extradite over.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

18th February 2020, 02:58 PM	#110
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	It seems that if Idaho wanted them extradited it would have to pay to do so, so it would seem that an earlier guess that Idaho would wait and try to make a case for a more severe crime that would stick would be correct. To be fair, if you know your suspects are somewhere specific and relatively isolated and that they can't directly interfere with your investigation, you wouldn't necessarily be in a hurry to change the playing field. Problems there are that they may not intend to ever come back, instead opting for the super special Koolaid in July, or that you may gain more with interrogation.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

19th February 2020, 02:15 PM	#111
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	The Dateline special is now available on NBC's site.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

20th February 2020, 07:30 AM	#112
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,762	Originally Posted by Thermal And the psychos are back on the menu, boys. Lori and Chad lit out of Kauai, but only appeared to jump over to Maui. https://komonews.com/news/local/mom-...th-new-husband Daily Mail now reports that the couple have returned to Kauai after a two-day vacation in Maui.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

20th February 2020, 07:40 AM	#113
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by William Parcher Daily Mail now reports that the couple have returned to Kauai after a two-day vacation in Maui. Yeah, after staying at $500 per night digs there. Although that is cheap by Maui standards, they do still seem to be pretty flush in cash.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

20th February 2020, 07:54 AM	#114
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,067	Originally Posted by Thermal Yeah, after staying at $500 per night digs there. Although that is cheap by Maui standards, they do still seem to be pretty flush in cash. Got to do something with all that child support money!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

20th February 2020, 10:15 AM	#115
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Quote: Five kids and no money and his sister gets everything. Talk about mood whiplash.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

20th February 2020, 01:09 PM	#116
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,302	Originally Posted by Darat Got to do something with all that child support money! Interesting thing that. As a divorced father of two children, I have opinions on the matter.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...