Merged: Missing children, fugitive parents, and drive-by shootings/Lori Vallow in court.

[StillSleepy]

Ah, good point. Didn't think of the drive-by. Actually, hold the phone, did Melani talk perchance?

[StillSleepy]

Well, it wasn't the drive-by, the solicitation part is, to quote the prosecutor, "encouraged another individual to delay law enforcement's attempts to locate her children." Chad wasn't arrested because he does not have any legal obligations toward the children. The felony desertion of a child charges carry a maximum of 14 years a piece.

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/cr...9-9009bd5eb55a

[novaphile]

This is where I'd like to be a Judge.

I accept your word that you've given your children to someone else.

However, I will keep you incarcerated, for contempt of Court, for the rest of your life if necessary, until those children are presented in this Court.

Bailif!

[Checkmite]

The first positive development in this case since it began.

[Mike!]

It'd be a pity if she was stuck in jail when the world ended and she couldn't enjoy it.

[wasapi]

It seems other charges were added because she resisted arrest.

She seems quite the peach. I hope they don't use an insanity plea.

[Thermal]

"Ben Dover, Esq Law offices, how can I help you?"

"Hi, my name is Lori Vallow, and I need reprentatio-"

"Who? No, this is a pizza parlor. Wrong number" Click.

[StillSleepy]

A bit of humor upon reflection, Chad allegedly said (hours prior to Lori being arrested) that he and Lori were facing "a legal mess."

Also, you know you're in deep trouble when the aptly named lawyers avoid your calls. (Although I think IRL they've been working with an attorney from the beginning.)

[Thermal]

They have an attorney likely handling their civil matters, like a lot of us do, but criminal defense is another game. Gonna have a hard time getting a good one retained, I imagine.

[StillSleepy]

Ok, so court documents are coming out, and the solicitation charge is by trying to have the friend that supposedly had the kids say she actually had them. It seems that the last time Tylee was seen was 8 September in Yellowstone.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/0...-jj-were-seen/

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/0...allow-daybell/

[Thermal]

Ok, so solicitation was trying to talk the Arizona friend into lying that she had JJ. So she talked, good for her.

Resisting/obstructing was not regarding her arrest in Hawaii, but that she impeded the officers at the November welfare check by lying about JJ being in Arizona.

[StillSleepy]

Expounding on somewhat old news, but Chad and Tammy's respective families were told Lori had no children (or in Tammy's family's case, at least no juvenile children). A bottle of J.J's meds were found, Lori had his iPad and Tylee's card that was used in October.

Edit: Turns out Chad got a hot $430,000 from Tammy's life insurance.

[Thermal]

Yeah, I suspected that's where the vacation cash came from.

What I can't figure out is why they didn't light out for Fiji or someplace while they had the chance. Hawaii is remote, but still in US jurisdiction.

[StillSleepy]

I believe at least one of the two had lived/worked there for a time prior to all this, I'll have to dig a bit to check.

[StillSleepy]

So I stumbled upon something else just now, it seems Brother Alex also once attacked Joseph Ryan Jr, Lori's third(?) husband, two years after they had divorced.

The Vallows had lived in Hawaii for about two and a half years before moving to Arizona.

[StillSleepy]

The more I look, the more little tidbits keep coming out of the woodwork. Lori had tried to sell the dog before ultimately returning it.

Pretty well-known by now, but there was a pool party later the same day Charles was killed.

[Thermal]

Even weirder is that she went to the trouble of returning the service dog, but wouldn't just return JJ to the grandparents?

[novaphile]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Even weirder is that she went to the trouble of returning the service dog, but wouldn't just return JJ to the grandparents?

Hard to return a child after you've murdered it.

[StillSleepy]

It depends on what's going on in her head. There is some indication of mental illness which doesn't mix well with religion. Some armchair psychologists have taken a different tack and suggested that if she's particularly narcissistic she may be punishing Kay for thwarting her regarding Charles life insurance policy.

[Thermal]

Yeah, that's what I think too. Then Tylee got wise and had to get gone as well.

Still strange to get this whole crew of murderers and conspirators together and no one rolling, except the original Arizona alibi amigos. Who should be sleeping with one eye open, btw.

[StillSleepy]

In today's hearing, the judge declined to lower Lori's bail to $10,000. Her extradition hearing will be 2 March.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Even weirder is that she went to the trouble of returning the service dog, but wouldn't just return JJ to the grandparents?

I think I read that she sold the service dog via a newspaper ad. The dog trainer only found out about it because he spotted the ad in the paper.

ETA: I thought wrong; the court filing explains the disposition of the dog.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Expounding on somewhat old news, but Chad and Tammy's respective families were told Lori had no children (or in Tammy's family's case, at least no juvenile children). A bottle of J.J's meds were found, Lori had his iPad and Tylee's card that was used in October.

This was news to me! I had read in press reports that Chad and Lori had told "witnesses" that Lori had no minor children. But the court filing is the first time we've been told those witnesses were Chad's extended family! These would have been JJ's and Tylee's new (step-) grandparents and aunts/uncles on Chad's side, and they evidently were never told of and never knew that JJ or Tylee existed at all. That cements the suggestion to me that Chad and Lori had decided early on that the children were not going to be a part of their new life together. At the very least, if the children were simply sent to live with someone else, that arrangement was never intended to be temporary.

In fact the court filing clarifies a great number of other things and gives some new and interesting information!

1. The search warrants Rexburg police had carried out at the request of Arizona authorities, were related to the shooting/attempted murder of Brandon Boudreaux by someone driving a Jeep that was registered to the by-then dead Charles Vallow (as we know).

2. The shooting of Boudreaux wasn't a drive-by. When Boudreaux fled the scene of the shooting, the Jeep gave chase for a time before giving up.

3. The Jeep was found in Lori's possession in Idaho and was seized by Rexburg PD, less than a month before the unsuccessful welfare check for JJ.

4. The Jeep was registered to Charles Vallow, but it was known to have been Tylee's ride! This doesn't implicate Tylee however, since she hadn't been seen for two months by the time it was confiscated - including by the police who surveilled Lori et al for a while before seizing the Jeep.

5. When searched in Hawaii, Lori had Tylee's bank card. It had been used since the last time Tylee was seen alive.

6. At the welfare check, Chad initially pretended to police to not to know Lori very well. They had been married for months by this time.

7. At the welfare check, Lori's brother Alex initially told police that JJ was with his grandparents in Louisiana (the ones who called the Rexburg police and asked them to perform the welfare check). I heard this for the first time during the Dateline piece and thought it might have been an error, but the court filing confirms it.

8. Chad and Lori took JJ and Tylee on a trip to Yellowstone in September. This is just plain weird, because it is well after the couple must have decided they would be getting rid of the children. A photo Tylee took during this trip that was uploaded from her iPhone is the last trace of Tylee's existence. (JJ was seen after this point, though.)

[Thermal]

Here's some more Chad and Lori Fun Facts!

Breezing through the affidavit, a few things I hadn't seen before:

-The Chadster and Lori, Niece Melanie, and Dead Brother Alex all lived in the same apartment complex, in three different apartments.

-The reason Arizona PD got so wrapped up in this was that Melanie's husband Brandon, when he was shot at in his car, recognized the vehicle (a Jeep Wrangler) as not only having belonged to Dead Charles, but that Tylee had been driving it for the last couple months. So it had to have been taken from her to go do the shooting. So maybe she knew something.

In other fun shooting deets, Brandon saw a rifle barrel stick out of the rear window when he was shot at, and the Jeep gave brief chase. More than one person in the Jeep?

-When the newlyweds were first served with a search warrant on Kauai, they also had JJ's iPad, and both the kids' birth certificates. Not a common thing to take to the islands when you are not with them.

[Thermal]

Looks like Checkmite and I were reading the same things at the same time.

[Checkmite]

It's a fascinating read.

[William Parcher]

Tylee last known from Yellowstone? She is residue in an acidic hot spring.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Tylee last known from Yellowstone? She is residue in an acidic hot spring.

Maybe. The detective's statement says that a photo (security camera?) obtained from the National Park Service shows the family including Tylee at the park entrance, but it doesn't say whether they were coming or going at the time of the photo. They definitely took JJ home with them because he was seen over the next couple of weeks at their apartment complex after that point before he disappeared, and I just kind of have trouble envisioning them icing Tylee while JJ was right there with them. But...it IS the last time that she's ever seen. So if it didn't happen there, it happened very soon afterwards.

[StillSleepy]

Well, you see, it was Cox who went with Lori and the kids to Yellowstone, not Chad.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Well, you see, it was Cox who went with Lori and the kids to Yellowstone, not Chad.

You are right! I did not read closely enough.

Hmmm...

[StillSleepy]

To be fair, I didn't realize Chad wasn't there, I just remembered that Cox was and checked the document to make sure.

[StillSleepy]

Apparently there is a Facebook page advocating for Lori's release. Dissenting views are allegedly deleted, as is tradition.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Apparently there is a Facebook page advocating for Lori's release.

Well of course; somebody somewhere has to believe it's parents' inviolable right to damnatio memoriae their children.

[StillSleepy]

From the accursed land of comments on news articles:

Quote:

Brian Smith

What is going to hurt this case eventually is that Lori’s representation was denied access to her where said representation said he was told she was missing/unavailable because she was being questioned by Idaho authorities after her arrest. That, if indeed true, being questioned and denied her representation after being read her Miranda rights will get any case taken before a legitimate court of law evidence enough to have the case be tossed!! What in the world were Madison County authorities thinking that they were above the law, and not having to play by the rules of law after one has been arrested and read their Miranda rights?

[Mike!]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Maybe. The detective's statement says that a photo (security camera?) obtained from the National Park Service shows the family including Tylee at the park entrance, but it doesn't say whether they were coming or going at the time of the photo. They definitely took JJ home with them because he was seen over the next couple of weeks at their apartment complex after that point before he disappeared, and I just kind of have trouble envisioning them icing Tylee while JJ was right there with them. But...it IS the last time that she's ever seen. So if it didn't happen there, it happened very soon afterwards.

I've read JJ is/was autistic. Where on the spectrum does he fall? He had an I pad and a service dog, which leads me to believe he was some place possibly non verbal or close to it. They could have easily done Tylee in at Yellowstone, and by keeping enough control over JJ, he'd be incapable of informing anyone else of her disappearance.

[StillSleepy]

The only thing i really recall specifically about his autism is that he had a prescription for sedatives that had never been filled in Idaho, it had last been filled in January of 2019, and there were 17 doses left in the bottle.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by Mike!

I've read JJ is/was autistic. Where on the spectrum does he fall? He had an I pad and a service dog, which leads me to believe he was some place possibly non verbal or close to it. They could have easily done Tylee in at Yellowstone, and by keeping enough control over JJ, he'd be incapable of informing anyone else of her disappearance.

Nah, on the Dateline piece I distinctly remember his grandparents saying he spoke with them on Facetime or Skype or some other kind of video chat program; he was definitely verbal.

[Elagabalus]

So is Lori the Showrunner, or is it Chad?

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by Elagabalus

So is Lori the Showrunner, or is it Chad?

Def Lori, IMO. Bodies were dropping around her since before she seems to have met the Chadster, and the only known body hitting the floor on his side was his wife Tammy, and that was after Lori got in the picture.

Going full-on Scooby-Doo: Lori collected life insurance money from a previous dead husband (just pick one). Realizes that people dying enlarges her coffers and lifestyle quite comfortably. Starts to make it more of a habit. Doesn't get Dead Charles' inheritance, so kills JJ in retaliation. Tylee finds out, so she goes too. Alex knows too much about too many murders now, so that liability needed to be mitigated.

My best guess is some type of poison for Alex, Tammy, probably JJ and Tylee, and probably earlier husbands also dead or whereabouts unknown. Alex was the only gunslinger, both for Dead Charles pool party bash and Brandon's attempted icing. But the bodies which weren't raising suspicions must have looked natural enough.

[Thermal]

Brandon is still bugging me. He says he IDed a Jeep Wrangler at night as belonging to Dead Charles. Doubt he could read the plates, or even had Dead Charles' Texas plates memorized. The shooting was in Arizona on Oct 2, and the Jeep presumably way up in Idaho (quite the haul). There would likely be a paper trail of such a long trip, and absence of Lori/Alex/Chad during that time. Should be fairly easy to piece together or disprove involvement.

But why assassinate Brandon out in the open, in your own distinctive Jeep with out of state tags, and from so far away as to fail? Surly there would be a more reliable method, that might not be so easy to pin on them?

Got some doubts about Brandon, now. He sets himself up neatly as the victim with what I think may be a somewhat odd shooting attempt. Wonder if he was the one doing the setting-up?

eta: Brandon also said the rifle barrel had a silencer on it. Doubt that rather highly, too, considering how hard they are to come by and how highly regulated. While it was possibly a flash suppressor or something, still odd that it conveniently (in his mind) would account for why no one else heard a shot at the time. Because none occurred at that time (say, he shot his own car earlier).

Going pretty far out on the hypothetical limb, but what the hell.