[Merged] Missing children, fugitive parents, and drive-by shootings/Lori Vallow in court. - Page 7

StillSleepy · 25th February 2020, 06:05 PM

Lori Vallow is seeking a reduction in bail (I think this is the second time, not sure), the hearing will be Wednesday. Lawyer will argue that she's not a flight risk and was willing to turn herself in.

Edit: That is to say, basically exactly what was said at her first hearing, although I thought the bail had been dealt with then.

ETA: This is indeed her second attempt.

DragonLady · 25th February 2020, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Also a rumor from "sources close to the investigation" going around on Daily Mail and a few other sites that investigators intend to search Yellowstone but are waiting for snow to melt.

This may be where this thread and the Grizzly Bear thread converge. If they killed the children and left them in Yellowstone in September, the remains may have been eaten by bears...which may remain in their intestines 'til they come out of torpor when the weather warms.

A hard way to be convicted - "You're story's a pile of carp, and that's exactly where we found the evidence to prove it'.

Also a bad day to be a park ranger!

https://www.sciencealert.com/this-is...having-to-poop

Thermal · 25th February 2020, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Hommes, when you see a poster referring to a suspect as 'the Chadster', and suggesting a child witness should be lumped in as a conspirator to murder, it should give you pause. Perhaps...hear me out, now...perhaps said poster is being somewhat irreverent? Perhaps if the media calls suspects 'The Doomsday Couple', and a poster (who repeatedly says the cult thing is irrelevant) riffs on the theme...perhaps you shouldn't take it quite so soberly? You're not an imbecile. You know what flippancy is, and should be able to recognize it. Especially when so on-the-nose.

You claimed I was wrong in that cult mama Melanie Gibbs wasn't reached by phone the night of the welfare check. My point was that she was oddly not reachable until after the Daybells beat feet (and Niece Melanie confirmed they left that night). That it was late that night, rather than the following morning, is trivial. {eta: that the police knew Lori lied about the children the night before and still didn't put Lori under surveillance for the next 12 hours or otherwise act is genuinely foolish} Although we do not know the exact times, Gibbs stayed out of contact till the Daybells were out of Dodge, and only offered the criminal calls when the Daybells were out of the continental US.

Serious question: why did you argue this? Just to say I was wrong (on an utterly inconsequential triviality)? Why mindlessly snipe when this is such an interesting OP?

I think we would do well to have some time away...not respond to each other, just for a bit...see other posters, maybe...perhaps we're going a little too fast.

Till our paths cross again on some lonely thread, adieu.

Checkmite · 25th February 2020, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Hommes, when you see a poster referring to a suspect as 'the Chadster', and suggesting a child witness should be lumped in as a conspirator to murder, it should give you pause.

Thank you for admitting that a good faith attempt to engage you when you started arguing was a waste of time from the beginning, yet again.

Thermal · 25th February 2020, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Thank you for admitting that a good faith attempt to engage you when you started arguing was a waste of time from the beginning, yet again.

You have got to be kidding me.There is no 'good faith attempt to engage' when you do nothing but scan posts for something to dispute, insult, ridicule, and attempt to lecture. Yet again. It's a discussion, not a freaking battle. Lighten up.

StillSleepy · 26th February 2020, 04:35 PM

Correction, today's hearing is seeking a reduction to $100,000-$125,000 this time, not $10,000.

casebro · 26th February 2020, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Correction, today's hearing is seeking a reduction to $100,000-$125,000 this time, not $10,000.

How much insurance money do they have left? Ad which state gets the bail money when the evade?

And shouldn't a few federal offenses kick in about now?

StillSleepy · 26th February 2020, 07:31 PM

So the results of today's hearing:

-Bail remains at $5M, judge declined to reduce it due to her history of ignoring court orders.

-Lori has waived her right to an extradition hearing and can now be extradited to Idaho.

-There will be a status hearing next Wednesday to further the extradition process.

To answer casebro, the reduction sought for bail was based on Chad having ~$152,000 in an account. No idea on which state collects.

ETA: Chad apparently was not present at today's hearing.

StillSleepy · 26th February 2020, 07:38 PM

Also, Melani is denying any knowledge of where the kids are. There's also some more divorce drama, for example she claims Brandon threatened to attack her and take the kids when confronted with porn addiction. Other claims include Brandon having shady business dealings and it was probably someone else trying to off him.

Checkmite · 26th February 2020, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Also, Melani is denying any knowledge of where the kids are. There's also some more divorce drama, for example she claims Brandon threatened to attack her and take the kids when confronted with porn addiction. Other claims include Brandon having shady business dealings and it was probably someone else trying to off him.

It's going to be interesting to see how she counters the claim that her own (new) husband has told the police she claimed involvement in the shooting attempt on Brandon. I don't see how that doesn't lose her case all by itself, unless something absolutely amazing comes out - like the claim is a total lie and both new-husband and the police deny he ever said such a thing to them.

StillSleepy · 26th February 2020, 10:39 PM

Supposedly this is part of a counter-statement through her legal representation, I haven't seen any sign of the actual documents.

StillSleepy · 26th February 2020, 10:42 PM

OH, apparently they are claiming Alex was at the storage bins on the day of the alleged shooting attempt, 2 October.

Checkmite · 26th February 2020, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

OH, apparently they are claiming Alex was at the storage bins on the day of the alleged shooting attempt, 2 October.

That seems to be true. On either the 2nd or the 3rd, Lori and a man, presumably Alex, visit the storage unit and remove a heavy plastic tote and a single wheel (from an as yet unidentified vehicle), taking these items away.

A trip from Phoenix, AZ to Idaho Falls is either a 14-hour drive or a ~4-hour express flight. It seems a more exacting timeline would be useful here. The exact times Lori and the man visited the storage unit, and the exact time of the reported shooting in Arizona. It would also help to have more information from the local police about that incident. For now, we're lacking all of these unfortunately.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 08:30 AM

There is one helpful thing I know regarding this offhand. The storage bins are right next to the airport in Rexburg.

ETA: However, flying there and back would make the Jeep out of place.

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

There is one helpful thing I know regarding this offhand. The storage bins are right next to the airport in Rexburg.

But the shooting took place from the Jeep that was Tylee was driving in Idaho. They had to have driven, no?

The storage unit basically contained a rubbermaid of winter clothing and bikes. The kids would still have a great deal more by way of possessions, still unaccounted for. Not clear on why this odd selection was in storage.

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 08:43 AM

Also, is it time to move this thread to Trials and Errors?

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 08:45 AM

Thermal, I had edited my post.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 08:50 AM

Just realized we're missing a piece of information, although it probably would have come up by now. Did Tylee have a boyfriend/girlfriend?

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 08:51 AM

StillSleepy, I saw that afterwards.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 08:52 AM

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Just realized we're missing a piece of information, although it probably would have come up by now. Did Tylee have a boyfriend/girlfriend?

We are missing a ton of info regarding the kids, but it won't get released as they are still minors in an investigation.

I'm interested in the Daybells bank and phone records, which Idaho is subpoenaing. They will likely tell the tale.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 08:57 AM

Lack of any kind of support payments seems to be one of the major reasons Lori got her desertion charges, though I'd be interested to know it there was any sort of large payment to a friend beforehand.

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 09:00 AM

Prediction: she's gonna walk, a la Casey Anthony. She's basically going to say the kids are missing/ran away and Idaho has no law requiring her to report that.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 09:09 AM

I wonder if the jeep would work against that claim. Going even further, I wonder what police have on the doorbell cam, since they have footage from before and after JJ was last seen at school. I'm simply not sure how the desertion charges in Idaho work. It could be, however unlikely, that failure to report constitutes desertion. Actually, running away makes some strange amount of sense, particularly if Tylee actually has a maturing fund. JJ was last seen the day before her birthday, after all...

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 09:19 AM

The Jeep should be fairly easy to place in Arizona, if there is a time frame. Toll booths, gas receipts, surveillance cameras...that's a long way to travel invisibly. And with the Jeep impounded, they went over it with a fine tooth comb. I think a lot of newer vehicles have GPS information accessible on them, don't they?

Re: doorbell camera: yeah, could prove they could not have driven to Arizona in the necessary time, or show an out-of-pattern absence that would circumstantially support that they were.

William Parcher · 27th February 2020, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Actually, running away makes some strange amount of sense, particularly if Tylee actually has a maturing fund.

No it doesn't. The whole country knows what she looks like. How could she live undetected by the public and why would she want that?

The only possibility is that she is being intentionally hidden or disguised so that the public and authorities cannot discover her.

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

No it doesn't. The whole country knows what she looks like. How could she live undetected by the public and why would she want that?

The only possibility is that she is being intentionally hidden or disguised so that the public and authorities cannot discover her.

Problem is, she looks exactly like forty other kids I saw today.

Posit: she may actually be on the run from mom, knowing something. Keeping quiet, lest Idaho puts her back in the same house.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 09:38 AM

Running away does not mean that one is moving about, simply that Lori does not know where she is. And if Tylee has JJ, that's even more reason not to resurface. It's also not necessarily a good thing, at least from Tylee's perspective, for Granny or anyone else to become JJ's guardian. While I agree that it's less likely than simply being dead or imprisoned, it's definitely an angle. The things this possibility could not explain, however, are Lori having all four of the phone, card, birth certificates, and jeep, as well as Lori telling people Tylee died the year prior. ~~Which creepily sounds like a severe narcissistic wound.~~

Thermal, I hadn't considered that info being useful for the Alex angle, I was actually thinking about the fact that if Tylee ran away it's odd Lori has her preferred vehicle, as well as all the other stuff I just mentioned.

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 09:42 AM

If she ran away, the last thing she would want to be driving is a vehicle that Lori could provide tag info to police.

Another option is culty peeps or other family grabbing the kids to protect them. They think they are saving the kids from the psycho mom, but are actually kidnapping so have to lay low. Longshot, but there.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 09:50 AM

Yeah, I keep wondering if grandma or Melanie Gibb is double-bluffing. I think Melanie's house had no sign of the children though.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 09:52 AM

Another thing is if Tylee ran away to somewhere nearby, so she wouldn't have needed the jeep.

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 09:54 AM

Yeah, granny got Dead Charles' $1,000,000 inheritance, but is only offering $20K for info about JJ. It's remotely plausible she is holing them up and trying to put their psycho mom out of the picture.

eta: Gibbs is on Team Lori, methinks. The timing of her communications to police were far too beneficial to Lori to be coincidence, IMO.

wasapi · 27th February 2020, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Prediction: she's gonna walk, a la Casey Anthony. She's basically going to say the kids are missing/ran away and Idaho has no law requiring her to report that.

I really hope you are wrong, and they find charges that will keep her incarcerated.

Though I don't want to sound like I enjoy retribution - I will say it anyway! Just now watching her on the news today, she has lost some of the smugness she was displaying. As if she is realizing this won't "blow over", and it made me smile. Those kids are no longer alive, and she is well aware of it.

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 10:21 AM

More optimistic scenario: Lori has JJ holed up with cult buddies while she tries to shake down Granny for some of that tasty inheritance cash. It would account for their oddly noncommital behavior and 'legal mess' comments, as well as why they did not go into hiding. Also accounts for granny's low reward offer: she doesn't want it big enough for a culter to 'find' JJ and split the kitty with the Daybells.

Elagabalus · 27th February 2020, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

If she ran away, the last thing she would want to be driving is a vehicle that Lori could provide tag info to police.

Another option is culty peeps or other family grabbing the kids to protect them. They think they are saving the kids from the psycho mom, but are actually kidnapping so have to lay low. Longshot, but there.

I was actually thinking that the culty peeps took Tylee and JJ at the behest of Lori and/or The Chadster. Again, a longshot.

Thermal · 27th February 2020, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Elagabalus

I was actually thinking that the culty peeps took Tylee and JJ at the behest of Lori and/or The Chadster. Again, a longshot.

Was typing the same speculation. Trying to find one that simply and plausibly explains the most.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 10:35 AM

Interview with one of Charles' sons:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/0...-lori-daybell/

ETA: Also some text chains regarding Charles' death:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/0...after-he-died/

DragonLady · 27th February 2020, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Elagabalus

I was actually thinking that the culty peeps took Tylee and JJ at the behest of Lori and/or The Chadster. Again, a longshot.

I think it's entirely possible. It may be one of those situations where the girl was married off or something...but I'm not able to think of a really plausible scenario for the boy at the moment.

But when I was growing up I knew a parent who was always leaving their kids with relatives, friends, friends-of-friends...pretty much anyone who would take them. In foster care I knew other kids who had been handed off from one unofficial living arrangement to another, usually just because they had parents who couldn't commit to the responsibilities.

I think its possible the Dumbbells just didn't want kids, and left them with someone else to be raised "right" and more importantly -far away.

StillSleepy · 27th February 2020, 10:49 AM

See, I wondered about Tylee simply moving out and then getting JJ rather than running away, but then that leads me to the situation with Lori having the phone, card, birth certificates and jeep. Trouble is, particular types of abusive parents will do things like take away the children's means of support when defied to carrot-and-stick the child into behavior the parent wants, so the fact that Lori has these things doesn't instantly disqualify either moving or running away. Also, those types of parents tend to harass the "misbehaving" child whenever they can find them. It's an uncomfortable level of speculation for me, altogether.

Checkmite · 27th February 2020, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

There is one helpful thing I know regarding this offhand. The storage bins are right next to the airport in Rexburg.

ETA: However, flying there and back would make the Jeep out of place.

Not if the Jeep wasn't brought with when the nee-Vallows initially moved to Rexburg a month prior. Fly there, pick up the Jeep, drive back.

Flying is something that could easily be proven or disproven with a subpoena on airline records, however. Presumably police in Arizona who are still looking into the matter will have done that, but they have not made any statements regarding it.

25th February 2020, 06:05 PM	#241
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Lori Vallow is seeking a reduction in bail (I think this is the second time, not sure), the hearing will be Wednesday. Lawyer will argue that she's not a flight risk and was willing to turn herself in. Edit: That is to say, basically exactly what was said at her first hearing, although I thought the bail had been dealt with then. ETA: This is indeed her second attempt.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish” Last edited by StillSleepy; 25th February 2020 at 07:03 PM.

25th February 2020, 06:37 PM	#242
DragonLady Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,588	Originally Posted by StillSleepy Also a rumor from "sources close to the investigation" going around on Daily Mail and a few other sites that investigators intend to search Yellowstone but are waiting for snow to melt. This may be where this thread and the Grizzly Bear thread converge. If they killed the children and left them in Yellowstone in September, the remains may have been eaten by bears...which may remain in their intestines 'til they come out of torpor when the weather warms. A hard way to be convicted - "You're story's a pile of carp, and that's exactly where we found the evidence to prove it'. Also a bad day to be a park ranger! https://www.sciencealert.com/this-is...having-to-poop
DragonLady Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,588	__________________ http://www.troubador.co.uk/book_info.asp?bookid=2499 “She would be half a planet away, floating in a turquoise sea, dancing by moonlight to flamenco guitar.” ~ Janet Fitch The Gweat and Tewwible Winged One

25th February 2020, 08:25 PM	#243
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by Checkmite <snipped borderline unhinged rambling> Hommes, when you see a poster referring to a suspect as 'the Chadster', and suggesting a child witness should be lumped in as a conspirator to murder, it should give you pause. Perhaps...hear me out, now...perhaps said poster is being somewhat irreverent? Perhaps if the media calls suspects 'The Doomsday Couple', and a poster (who repeatedly says the cult thing is irrelevant) riffs on the theme...perhaps you shouldn't take it quite so soberly? You're not an imbecile. You know what flippancy is, and should be able to recognize it. Especially when so on-the-nose. You claimed I was wrong in that cult mama Melanie Gibbs wasn't reached by phone the night of the welfare check. My point was that she was oddly not reachable until after the Daybells beat feet (and Niece Melanie confirmed they left that night). That it was late that night, rather than the following morning, is trivial. {eta: that the police knew Lori lied about the children the night before and still didn't put Lori under surveillance for the next 12 hours or otherwise act is genuinely foolish} Although we do not know the exact times, Gibbs stayed out of contact till the Daybells were out of Dodge, and only offered the criminal calls when the Daybells were out of the continental US. Serious question: why did you argue this? Just to say I was wrong (on an utterly inconsequential triviality)? Why mindlessly snipe when this is such an interesting OP? I think we would do well to have some time away...not respond to each other, just for a bit...see other posters, maybe...perhaps we're going a little too fast. Till our paths cross again on some lonely thread, adieu.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain Last edited by Thermal; 25th February 2020 at 08:48 PM.

25th February 2020, 09:09 PM	#244
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,393	Originally Posted by Thermal Hommes, when you see a poster referring to a suspect as 'the Chadster', and suggesting a child witness should be lumped in as a conspirator to murder, it should give you pause. Thank you for admitting that a good faith attempt to engage you when you started arguing was a waste of time from the beginning, yet again.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

25th February 2020, 09:49 PM	#245
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by Checkmite Thank you for admitting that a good faith attempt to engage you when you started arguing was a waste of time from the beginning, yet again. You have got to be kidding me.There is no 'good faith attempt to engage' when you do nothing but scan posts for something to dispute, insult, ridicule, and attempt to lecture. Yet again. It's a discussion, not a freaking battle. Lighten up.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

26th February 2020, 04:35 PM	#246
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Correction, today's hearing is seeking a reduction to $100,000-$125,000 this time, not $10,000.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

26th February 2020, 04:55 PM	#247
casebro Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 18,653	Originally Posted by StillSleepy Correction, today's hearing is seeking a reduction to $100,000-$125,000 this time, not $10,000. How much insurance money do they have left? Ad which state gets the bail money when the evade? And shouldn't a few federal offenses kick in about now?
	__________________ Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.

26th February 2020, 07:31 PM	#248
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	So the results of today's hearing: -Bail remains at $5M, judge declined to reduce it due to her history of ignoring court orders. -Lori has waived her right to an extradition hearing and can now be extradited to Idaho. -There will be a status hearing next Wednesday to further the extradition process. To answer casebro, the reduction sought for bail was based on Chad having ~$152,000 in an account. No idea on which state collects. ETA: Chad apparently was not present at today's hearing.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish” Last edited by StillSleepy; 26th February 2020 at 07:47 PM.

26th February 2020, 07:38 PM	#249
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Also, Melani is denying any knowledge of where the kids are. There's also some more divorce drama, for example she claims Brandon threatened to attack her and take the kids when confronted with porn addiction. Other claims include Brandon having shady business dealings and it was probably someone else trying to off him.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

26th February 2020, 10:32 PM	#250
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,393	Originally Posted by StillSleepy Also, Melani is denying any knowledge of where the kids are. There's also some more divorce drama, for example she claims Brandon threatened to attack her and take the kids when confronted with porn addiction. Other claims include Brandon having shady business dealings and it was probably someone else trying to off him. It's going to be interesting to see how she counters the claim that her own (new) husband has told the police she claimed involvement in the shooting attempt on Brandon. I don't see how that doesn't lose her case all by itself, unless something absolutely amazing comes out - like the claim is a total lie and both new-husband and the police deny he ever said such a thing to them.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

26th February 2020, 10:39 PM	#251
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Supposedly this is part of a counter-statement through her legal representation, I haven't seen any sign of the actual documents.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

26th February 2020, 10:42 PM	#252
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	OH, apparently they are claiming Alex was at the storage bins on the day of the alleged shooting attempt, 2 October.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

26th February 2020, 11:40 PM	#253
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,393	Originally Posted by StillSleepy OH, apparently they are claiming Alex was at the storage bins on the day of the alleged shooting attempt, 2 October. That seems to be true. On either the 2nd or the 3rd, Lori and a man, presumably Alex, visit the storage unit and remove a heavy plastic tote and a single wheel (from an as yet unidentified vehicle), taking these items away. A trip from Phoenix, AZ to Idaho Falls is either a 14-hour drive or a ~4-hour express flight. It seems a more exacting timeline would be useful here. The exact times Lori and the man visited the storage unit, and the exact time of the reported shooting in Arizona. It would also help to have more information from the local police about that incident. For now, we're lacking all of these unfortunately.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 Last edited by Checkmite; 26th February 2020 at 11:47 PM.

27th February 2020, 08:30 AM	#254
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	There is one helpful thing I know regarding this offhand. The storage bins are right next to the airport in Rexburg. ETA: However, flying there and back would make the Jeep out of place.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish” Last edited by StillSleepy; 27th February 2020 at 08:31 AM.

27th February 2020, 08:40 AM	#255
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by StillSleepy There is one helpful thing I know regarding this offhand. The storage bins are right next to the airport in Rexburg. But the shooting took place from the Jeep that was Tylee was driving in Idaho. They had to have driven, no? The storage unit basically contained a rubbermaid of winter clothing and bikes. The kids would still have a great deal more by way of possessions, still unaccounted for. Not clear on why this odd selection was in storage.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 08:43 AM	#256
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Also, is it time to move this thread to Trials and Errors?
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 08:45 AM	#257
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Thermal, I had edited my post.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

27th February 2020, 08:50 AM	#258
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Just realized we're missing a piece of information, although it probably would have come up by now. Did Tylee have a boyfriend/girlfriend?
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

27th February 2020, 08:51 AM	#259
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	StillSleepy, I saw that afterwards.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 08:52 AM	#260
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

27th February 2020, 08:54 AM	#261
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by StillSleepy Just realized we're missing a piece of information, although it probably would have come up by now. Did Tylee have a boyfriend/girlfriend? We are missing a ton of info regarding the kids, but it won't get released as they are still minors in an investigation. I'm interested in the Daybells bank and phone records, which Idaho is subpoenaing. They will likely tell the tale.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 08:57 AM	#262
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Lack of any kind of support payments seems to be one of the major reasons Lori got her desertion charges, though I'd be interested to know it there was any sort of large payment to a friend beforehand.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

27th February 2020, 09:00 AM	#263
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Prediction: she's gonna walk, a la Casey Anthony. She's basically going to say the kids are missing/ran away and Idaho has no law requiring her to report that.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 09:09 AM	#264
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	I wonder if the jeep would work against that claim. Going even further, I wonder what police have on the doorbell cam, since they have footage from before and after JJ was last seen at school. I'm simply not sure how the desertion charges in Idaho work. It could be, however unlikely, that failure to report constitutes desertion. Actually, running away makes some strange amount of sense, particularly if Tylee actually has a maturing fund. JJ was last seen the day before her birthday, after all...
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

27th February 2020, 09:19 AM	#265
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	The Jeep should be fairly easy to place in Arizona, if there is a time frame. Toll booths, gas receipts, surveillance cameras...that's a long way to travel invisibly. And with the Jeep impounded, they went over it with a fine tooth comb. I think a lot of newer vehicles have GPS information accessible on them, don't they? Re: doorbell camera: yeah, could prove they could not have driven to Arizona in the necessary time, or show an out-of-pattern absence that would circumstantially support that they were.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 09:22 AM	#266
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,762	Originally Posted by StillSleepy Actually, running away makes some strange amount of sense, particularly if Tylee actually has a maturing fund. No it doesn't. The whole country knows what she looks like. How could she live undetected by the public and why would she want that? The only possibility is that she is being intentionally hidden or disguised so that the public and authorities cannot discover her.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

27th February 2020, 09:32 AM	#267
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Originally Posted by William Parcher No it doesn't. The whole country knows what she looks like. How could she live undetected by the public and why would she want that? The only possibility is that she is being intentionally hidden or disguised so that the public and authorities cannot discover her. Problem is, she looks exactly like forty other kids I saw today. Posit: she may actually be on the run from mom, knowing something. Keeping quiet, lest Idaho puts her back in the same house.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 09:38 AM	#268
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Running away does not mean that one is moving about, simply that Lori does not know where she is. And if Tylee has JJ, that's even more reason not to resurface. It's also not necessarily a good thing, at least from Tylee's perspective, for Granny or anyone else to become JJ's guardian. While I agree that it's less likely than simply being dead or imprisoned, it's definitely an angle. The things this possibility could not explain, however, are Lori having all four of the phone, card, birth certificates, and jeep, as well as Lori telling people Tylee died the year prior. ~~Which creepily sounds like a severe narcissistic wound.~~ Thermal, I hadn't considered that info being useful for the Alex angle, I was actually thinking about the fact that if Tylee ran away it's odd Lori has her preferred vehicle, as well as all the other stuff I just mentioned.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish” Last edited by StillSleepy; 27th February 2020 at 09:39 AM. Reason: spelling

27th February 2020, 09:42 AM	#269
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	If she ran away, the last thing she would want to be driving is a vehicle that Lori could provide tag info to police. Another option is culty peeps or other family grabbing the kids to protect them. They think they are saving the kids from the psycho mom, but are actually kidnapping so have to lay low. Longshot, but there.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 09:50 AM	#270
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Yeah, I keep wondering if grandma or Melanie Gibb is double-bluffing. I think Melanie's house had no sign of the children though.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

27th February 2020, 09:52 AM	#271
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Another thing is if Tylee ran away to somewhere nearby, so she wouldn't have needed the jeep.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

27th February 2020, 09:54 AM	#272
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	Yeah, granny got Dead Charles' $1,000,000 inheritance, but is only offering $20K for info about JJ. It's remotely plausible she is holing them up and trying to put their psycho mom out of the picture. eta: Gibbs is on Team Lori, methinks. The timing of her communications to police were far too beneficial to Lori to be coincidence, IMO.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain Last edited by Thermal; 27th February 2020 at 09:56 AM.

27th February 2020, 10:10 AM	#273
wasapi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13,206	Originally Posted by Thermal Prediction: she's gonna walk, a la Casey Anthony. She's basically going to say the kids are missing/ran away and Idaho has no law requiring her to report that. I really hope you are wrong, and they find charges that will keep her incarcerated. Though I don't want to sound like I enjoy retribution - I will say it anyway! Just now watching her on the news today, she has lost some of the smugness she was displaying. As if she is realizing this won't "blow over", and it made me smile. Those kids are no longer alive, and she is well aware of it.
	__________________ Julia

27th February 2020, 10:21 AM	#274
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,527	More optimistic scenario: Lori has JJ holed up with cult buddies while she tries to shake down Granny for some of that tasty inheritance cash. It would account for their oddly noncommital behavior and 'legal mess' comments, as well as why they did not go into hiding. Also accounts for granny's low reward offer: she doesn't want it big enough for a culter to 'find' JJ and split the kitty with the Daybells.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

27th February 2020, 10:21 AM	#275
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,919	Originally Posted by Thermal If she ran away, the last thing she would want to be driving is a vehicle that Lori could provide tag info to police. Another option is culty peeps or other family grabbing the kids to protect them. They think they are saving the kids from the psycho mom, but are actually kidnapping so have to lay low. Longshot, but there. I was actually thinking that the culty peeps took Tylee and JJ at the behest of Lori and/or The Chadster. Again, a longshot.
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,919