Ghislaine Maxwell - Page 5

shuttlt · 14th August 2020, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

A bit off topic of course, but what's the source of the difference? To an untrained observer one would think that "hung" would definitely be the past participle form of "to hang".

The answers I am aware of go back to Old English...

Quote:

a fusion of Old English hon "suspend" (transitive, class VII strong verb; past tense heng, past participle hangen), and Old English hangian "be suspended" (intransitive, weak, past tense hangode); also probably influenced by Old Norse hengja "suspend," and hanga "be suspended."

Quote:

Hung emerged as past participle 16c. in northern England dialect, and hanged endured only in legal language (which tends to be conservative) in reference to capital punishment and in metaphors extended from it (I'll be hanged).

https://www.etymonline.com/word/hang

bruto · 14th August 2020, 08:53 AM

I'm not sure of the etymology here, but my guess is that "hanged" remains special because it describes a narrow subset of hanging. Everything and everyone who is suspended hangs or is hung, but only those killed when suspended by a rope around the neck are also hanged.

Matthew Best · 22nd October 2020, 09:37 AM

The full transcipt of her 2016 deposition is available here:

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-co...ition-2016.pdf

It's mainly her denying everything, but also denying everything in the most evasive and pedantic way imaginable, which makes her seem incredibly guilty IMO. But maybe that's just the way lawyers instructed her, I don't know.

The deposition has many redactions, but then right at the end there is an alphabetical index, so I would imagine that the many references to someone who appears between the word "analyzed" and "angeles" in the index is probably Andrew. And between "depth" and "describe" is, I guess, Dershowitz.

commandlinegamer · 22nd October 2020, 01:32 PM

I sped through the first couple hundred pages, then scooted to the end. No juicy tid-bits as far as I could see. Maybe the NASA announcement will be more exciting.

Vixen · 22nd October 2020, 02:05 PM

Somebody's cracked how you can decode the redacted names simply by looking at the index at the back and matching the said alphabetical letter to the name.

Quote:

It turns out, though, that those redactions are possible to crack. That’s because the deposition—which you can read in full here—includes a complete alphabetized index of the redacted and unredacted words that appear in the document. For example, after cracking the redactions, we know that Maxwell was asked about an email that Dershowitz allegedly sent to Epstein. In that email, Dershowitz reportedly wrote that he was “working on several possible articles about unfairness in the legal process that allows false charges to be inserted into legal documents.”

Here’s how to deduce the redacted words, using former President Bill Clinton as an example.

You can see in the index that a word that falls alphabetically between clients and clock appears on quite a number of pages. From this, we know that the word starts with the letters CL.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-to-crack.html

Seems at least thirty underage women reported Epstein to the police so it will be difficult for Maxwell to persist in her claim she knew nothing about this.

Robin · 22nd October 2020, 02:20 PM

Haven't read the whole thing, but as far as I can tell she is saying these girls just turned up at the door uninvited and barged in.

timhau · 22nd October 2020, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Here’s how to deduce the redacted words, using former President Bill Clinton as an example.

You can see in the index that a word that falls alphabetically between clients and clock appears on quite a number of pages. From this, we know that the word starts with the letters CL.

Clinton's name appears in the text unredacted.

Matthew Best · 23rd October 2020, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Somebody's cracked how you can decode the redacted names simply by looking at the index at the back and matching the said alphabetical letter to the name.

Yes, I did that in the post that included a link to the deposition.

You’re welcome.

Filippo Lippi · 29th December 2020, 07:13 AM

The New York Times tweeted

Quote:

A judge rejected a $28.5 million bail proposal from Ghislaine Maxwell, a companion of Jeffrey Epstein who is charged with contributing to his abuse of teenage girls. She had sought to be freed from what her lawyers called “intolerable” jail conditions.

Minoosh · 1st January 2021, 12:30 PM

$28.5 million bail per NYT - that's the highest bail I've ever heard of. But then she is not a flight risk; she's a flight certainty.

She cites "intolerable" jail conditions. I wonder if she is in the jail general population or in some kind of protection.

smartcooky · 1st January 2021, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

$28.5 million bail per NYT - that's the highest bail I've ever heard of. But then she is not a flight risk; she's a flight certainty.

She cites "intolerable" jail conditions. I wonder if she is in the jail general population or in some kind of protection.

She has unlimited resources, and even then, as you say, is a "flight certainty". No amount of bail will secure her for trial.

As for "intolerable" jail conditions, my heart bleeds ice!

Samson · 2nd January 2021, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

She has unlimited resources, and even then, as you say, is a "flight certainty". No amount of bail will secure her for trial.

As for "intolerable" jail conditions, my heart bleeds ice!

Intolerable jail conditions are often cited. Deserves a thread. Specifics would be helpful, I guess not Scandinavian empathy, but then less demand for jail space up there.

Mike! · 3rd January 2021, 09:57 AM

I thought part of the whole point of jail was that it wasn't intended to be anyplace you really wanted to just go in and hang around*.

*No pun intended, but not really regretted ether.

Darat · 3rd January 2021, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

I thought part of the whole point of jail was that it wasn't intended to be anyplace you really wanted to just go in and hang around*.

*No pun intended, but not really regretted ether.

Back in the 19th and early 20th century the USA led the way in humane treatment of prisoners, conditions they were kept in and so on. It now appears to be going the opposite direction.

Personally I would prefer prisoners to live in a stable, safe, violence free environment that encourages healthy living such as how to control your anger, how to learn and so on. That way when they leave prison they can rejoin (or I suspect for many join for the first time) mainstream society and enjoy a productive and happy life. (I do also wish for a pony.)

catsmate · 3rd January 2021, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

I thought part of the whole point of jail was that it wasn't intended to be anyplace you really wanted to just go in and hang around*.
.

She has been convicted of no crimes as yet; ISTR a principle named 'presumption of innocence '.

Though as a general principle humane treatment of prisoners is a better idea for society.

Filippo Lippi · 18th February 2021, 03:19 AM

She's suffering/trying it on [delete as applicable] again

Cavemonster · 18th February 2021, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

$28.5 million bail per NYT - that's the highest bail I've ever heard of. But then she is not a flight risk; she's a flight certainty.

She cites "intolerable" jail conditions. I wonder if she is in the jail general population or in some kind of protection.

I was under the impression that judges had the leeway to deny bail altogether for a high enough flight risk or someone who would endanger the community. I'm curious why the choice of a prohibitively hight bail instead of simply not granting bail.

Matthew Best · 23rd February 2021, 10:52 PM

Maxwell's latest attempt to get bail involves offering to revoke her French and UK citizenship.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...gn-citizenship

Vixen · Yesterday, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Maxwell's latest attempt to get bail involves offering to revoke her French and UK citizenship.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...gn-citizenship

Bit of a red herring on her lawyers' part, as both the UK and France have an extradition treaty with the USA so she is hardly likely to flee there. If she flees it'll be to somewhere like Morocco where there is no extradition, or even Israel as her father had a near state funeral there and was a great Zionist.

Personally, she hasn't killed anyone or committed violence, so I sympathise with her being locked up in solitary confinement with hardened criminals.

Sex trafficking is of course a horrendous and heartbreaking crime, I hasten o add.

SuburbanTurkey · Yesterday, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Bit of a red herring on her lawyers' part, as both the UK and France have an extradition treaty with the USA so she is hardly likely to flee there. If she flees it'll be to somewhere like Morocco where there is no extradition, or even Israel as her father had a near state funeral there and was a great Zionist.

Personally, she hasn't killed anyone or committed violence, so I sympathise with her being locked up in solitary confinement with hardened criminals.

Sex trafficking is of course a horrendous and heartbreaking crime, I hasten o add.

France is pretty famous for not extraditing French nationals back to the US. Fugitive child rapist and occasional film maker Roman Polanski has been living there for decades and is careful not to travel to other countries that might send him back to the US to face justice.

14th August 2020, 07:38 AM	#161
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314	Originally Posted by Belz... A bit off topic of course, but what's the source of the difference? To an untrained observer one would think that "hung" would definitely be the past participle form of "to hang". The answers I am aware of go back to Old English... Quote: a fusion of Old English hon "suspend" (transitive, class VII strong verb; past tense heng, past participle hangen), and Old English hangian "be suspended" (intransitive, weak, past tense hangode); also probably influenced by Old Norse hengja "suspend," and hanga "be suspended." Quote: Hung emerged as past participle 16c. in northern England dialect, and hanged endured only in legal language (which tends to be conservative) in reference to capital punishment and in metaphors extended from it (I'll be hanged). https://www.etymonline.com/word/hang
shuttlt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,314

14th August 2020, 08:53 AM	#162
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 27,640	I'm not sure of the etymology here, but my guess is that "hanged" remains special because it describes a narrow subset of hanging. Everything and everyone who is suspended hangs or is hung, but only those killed when suspended by a rope around the neck are also hanged.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

22nd October 2020, 01:32 PM	#164
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 9,091	I sped through the first couple hundred pages, then scooted to the end. No juicy tid-bits as far as I could see. Maybe the NASA announcement will be more exciting.
	__________________ He bade me take any rug in the house.

22nd October 2020, 02:05 PM	#165
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,729	Somebody's cracked how you can decode the redacted names simply by looking at the index at the back and matching the said alphabetical letter to the name. Quote: It turns out, though, that those redactions are possible to crack. That’s because the deposition—which you can read in full here—includes a complete alphabetized index of the redacted and unredacted words that appear in the document. For example, after cracking the redactions, we know that Maxwell was asked about an email that Dershowitz allegedly sent to Epstein. In that email, Dershowitz reportedly wrote that he was “working on several possible articles about unfairness in the legal process that allows false charges to be inserted into legal documents.” Here’s how to deduce the redacted words, using former President Bill Clinton as an example. You can see in the index that a word that falls alphabetically between clients and clock appears on quite a number of pages. From this, we know that the word starts with the letters CL. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-to-crack.html Seems at least thirty underage women reported Epstein to the police so it will be difficult for Maxwell to persist in her claim she knew nothing about this.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

22nd October 2020, 02:20 PM	#166
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,881	Haven't read the whole thing, but as far as I can tell she is saying these girls just turned up at the door uninvited and barged in.
	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

22nd October 2020, 09:37 AM	#163
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,177	The full transcipt of her 2016 deposition is available here: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-co...ition-2016.pdf It's mainly her denying everything, but also denying everything in the most evasive and pedantic way imaginable, which makes her seem incredibly guilty IMO. But maybe that's just the way lawyers instructed her, I don't know. The deposition has many redactions, but then right at the end there is an alphabetical index, so I would imagine that the many references to someone who appears between the word "analyzed" and "angeles" in the index is probably Andrew. And between "depth" and "describe" is, I guess, Dershowitz.

22nd October 2020, 09:33 PM	#167
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,462	Quote: Here’s how to deduce the redacted words, using former President Bill Clinton as an example. You can see in the index that a word that falls alphabetically between clients and clock appears on quite a number of pages. From this, we know that the word starts with the letters CL. Clinton's name appears in the text unredacted.
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23rd October 2020, 12:37 PM	#168
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,177	Originally Posted by Vixen Somebody's cracked how you can decode the redacted names simply by looking at the index at the back and matching the said alphabetical letter to the name. Yes, I did that in the post that included a link to the deposition. You’re welcome.

29th December 2020, 07:13 AM	#169
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,349	The New York Times tweeted Quote: A judge rejected a $28.5 million bail proposal from Ghislaine Maxwell, a companion of Jeffrey Epstein who is charged with contributing to his abuse of teenage girls. She had sought to be freed from what her lawyers called “intolerable” jail conditions.
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

1st January 2021, 12:30 PM	#170
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,227	$28.5 million bail per NYT - that's the highest bail I've ever heard of. But then she is not a flight risk; she's a flight certainty. She cites "intolerable" jail conditions. I wonder if she is in the jail general population or in some kind of protection.
	Last edited by Minoosh; 1st January 2021 at 12:36 PM.

1st January 2021, 02:04 PM	#171
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,737	Originally Posted by Minoosh $28.5 million bail per NYT - that's the highest bail I've ever heard of. But then she is not a flight risk; she's a flight certainty. She cites "intolerable" jail conditions. I wonder if she is in the jail general population or in some kind of protection. She has unlimited resources, and even then, as you say, is a "flight certainty". No amount of bail will secure her for trial. As for "intolerable" jail conditions, my heart bleeds ice!
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

2nd January 2021, 01:34 PM	#172
Samson Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,359	Originally Posted by smartcooky She has unlimited resources, and even then, as you say, is a "flight certainty". No amount of bail will secure her for trial. As for "intolerable" jail conditions, my heart bleeds ice! Intolerable jail conditions are often cited. Deserves a thread. Specifics would be helpful, I guess not Scandinavian empathy, but then less demand for jail space up there.
Samson Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,359

3rd January 2021, 09:57 AM	#173
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 40,146	I thought part of the whole point of jail was that it wasn't intended to be anyplace you really wanted to just go in and hang around. No pun intended, but not really regretted ether.
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3rd January 2021, 10:17 AM	#174
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,805	Originally Posted by Mike! I thought part of the whole point of jail was that it wasn't intended to be anyplace you really wanted to just go in and hang around. No pun intended, but not really regretted ether. Back in the 19th and early 20th century the USA led the way in humane treatment of prisoners, conditions they were kept in and so on. It now appears to be going the opposite direction. Personally I would prefer prisoners to live in a stable, safe, violence free environment that encourages healthy living such as how to control your anger, how to learn and so on. That way when they leave prison they can rejoin (or I suspect for many join for the first time) mainstream society and enjoy a productive and happy life. (I do also wish for a pony.)
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

3rd January 2021, 11:37 AM	#175
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,800	Originally Posted by Mike! I thought part of the whole point of jail was that it wasn't intended to be anyplace you really wanted to just go in and hang around*. . She has been convicted of no crimes as yet; ISTR a principle named 'presumption of innocence '. Though as a general principle humane treatment of prisoners is a better idea for society.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

18th February 2021, 03:19 AM	#176
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,349	She's suffering/trying it on [delete as applicable] again
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

18th February 2021, 06:24 AM	#177
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,439	Originally Posted by Minoosh $28.5 million bail per NYT - that's the highest bail I've ever heard of. But then she is not a flight risk; she's a flight certainty. She cites "intolerable" jail conditions. I wonder if she is in the jail general population or in some kind of protection. I was under the impression that judges had the leeway to deny bail altogether for a high enough flight risk or someone who would endanger the community. I'm curious why the choice of a prohibitively hight bail instead of simply not granting bail.
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,439	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

23rd February 2021, 10:52 PM	#178
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,177	Maxwell's latest attempt to get bail involves offering to revoke her French and UK citizenship. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...gn-citizenship

Yesterday, 02:39 AM	#179
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,729	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Maxwell's latest attempt to get bail involves offering to revoke her French and UK citizenship. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...gn-citizenship Bit of a red herring on her lawyers' part, as both the UK and France have an extradition treaty with the USA so she is hardly likely to flee there. If she flees it'll be to somewhere like Morocco where there is no extradition, or even Israel as her father had a near state funeral there and was a great Zionist. Personally, she hasn't killed anyone or committed violence, so I sympathise with her being locked up in solitary confinement with hardened criminals. Sex trafficking is of course a horrendous and heartbreaking crime, I hasten o add.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

Yesterday, 05:07 AM	#180
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 7,887	Originally Posted by Vixen Bit of a red herring on her lawyers' part, as both the UK and France have an extradition treaty with the USA so she is hardly likely to flee there. If she flees it'll be to somewhere like Morocco where there is no extradition, or even Israel as her father had a near state funeral there and was a great Zionist. Personally, she hasn't killed anyone or committed violence, so I sympathise with her being locked up in solitary confinement with hardened criminals. Sex trafficking is of course a horrendous and heartbreaking crime, I hasten o add. France is pretty famous for not extraditing French nationals back to the US. Fugitive child rapist and occasional film maker Roman Polanski has been living there for decades and is careful not to travel to other countries that might send him back to the US to face justice.
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