Are we allowed to call Trump's regime fascism now?

ChristianProgressive · 30th July 2020, 07:12 AM

With Trump deploying his brownshirt army across the nation

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...federal-police

that is illegally grabbing people off the street at random who have committed no crime

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...zee-story.html

and forcing them to sign agreements not to protest in order to be released

https://www.propublica.org/article/d...utional-rights

ICE conducting "civilian academies" to train non-police in arrest and firearms.

https://www.npr.org/local/309/2020/0...alderman-warns

And now, Usurper Trump trying to prevent people from removing him democratically

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...lection-387902

Are we finally all agreed that the US is under fascist occupation, or are those of us who keep insisting that we have a functioning democratic system still going to die on that hill?

theprestige · 30th July 2020, 07:25 AM

You're allowed to call it anything you want.

Ironically, this means it's probably not fascism.

Wolrab · 30th July 2020, 07:48 AM

Deploying troops to fight fascists is fascism? What a strange concept.

ChristianProgressive · 30th July 2020, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

You're allowed to call it anything you want.

Ironically, this means it's probably not fascism.

He's following Hitler's playbook almost precisely. If his regime goosesteps like a fascist, uses the slogans and tactics of a fascist and espouses the beliefs of a fascist...do the math...

TahiniBinShawarma · 30th July 2020, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive

With Trump deploying his brownshirt army across the nation

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...federal-police

that is illegally grabbing people off the street at random who have committed no crime

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...zee-story.html

and forcing them to sign agreements not to protest in order to be released

https://www.propublica.org/article/d...utional-rights

ICE conducting "civilian academies" to train non-police in arrest and firearms.

https://www.npr.org/local/309/2020/0...alderman-warns

And now, Usurper Trump trying to prevent people from removing him democratically

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...lection-387902

Are we finally all agreed that the US is under fascist occupation, or are those of us who keep insisting that we have a functioning democratic system still going to die on that hill?

I'm wondering if the hysterical crowd who have such thinking realize how ridiculous they sound to normal people?

BobTheCoward · 30th July 2020, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive

He's following Hitler's playbook almost precisely. If his regime goosesteps like a fascist, uses the slogans and tactics of a fascist and espouses the beliefs of a fascist...do the math...

I think it shows a parochial worldview constrained by a lack of knowledge on the range of authoritarian regimes.

Really? In all of human history and all regimes, this is the one it is most comparable to?

Wolrab · 30th July 2020, 08:02 AM

<snip>
Rioters and looters using brownshirt tactics are brownshirts. <snip>

Edited by Loss Leader:

Quote removed and post edited to conform.

BobTheCoward · 30th July 2020, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Hmmm... Rioters and looters using brownshirt tactics are brownshirts. <snip>

The activities that are specific to Brown shirts that doesn't also apply to something like the activities of a college team's fans after a championship win is nothing like the activities of the protestors.

Edited by Loss Leader:

Quote edited to conform.

varwoche · 30th July 2020, 08:10 AM

Nascent fascism.

Trumpism bears little resemblance to traditional GOP. It's more like facism.

Mojo · 30th July 2020, 08:14 AM

Never attribute to fascism that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

BobTheCoward · 30th July 2020, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Nascent fascism.

Trumpism bears little resemblance to traditional GOP. It's more like facism.

What separates nascent fascism from authoritarianism?

varwoche · 30th July 2020, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Never attribute to fascism that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

Not an either/or proposition.

theprestige · 30th July 2020, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive

He's following Hitler's playbook almost precisely. If his regime goosesteps like a fascist, uses the slogans and tactics of a fascist and espouses the beliefs of a fascist...do the math...

Sure, where "almost precisely" means "not even a little bit".

varwoche · 30th July 2020, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

What separates nascent fascism from authoritarianism?

Semantics to a large extent. The definition is fuzzy.

Attributes of facism with applicability to current situation:

Hyper nationalistic check
Far right check
Authoritarian check
One party state check
Positive view of violence check
Opposed to free press check
Charismatic, authoritarian leader with devout following check
Racist check

Mojo · 30th July 2020, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Not an either/or proposition.

Yes, they aren’t mutually exclusive, but I’m pretty certain that common or garden incompetence is a lot more prevalent than fascist incompetence.

BobTheCoward · 30th July 2020, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Semantics to a large extent. The definition is fuzzy.

Attributes of facism with applicability to current situation:

Hyper nationalistic check
Far right check
Authoritarian check
One party state check
Positive view of violence check
Opposed to free press check
Charismatic, authoritarian leader with devout following check
Racist check

Just starting with your first one,

How do you know the difference between nationalistic normal to right wing authoritarianism and hyper nationalistic?

carlitos · 30th July 2020, 08:45 AM

Yes, we are all finally in agreement. We are allowed to call the Trump regime fascist now.

(that was sarcasm)

dann · 30th July 2020, 08:55 AM

No, we are not.

Originally Posted by xjx388

Tyranny! Fascism! Nazis! Dangerously mentally ill!

Benghazi! Her emails! Clinton Cash! Vince Foster!

I’m not seeing a whole lot of difference in the quality of “argument” there.

I always thought Liberals/Progressives/Democrats/whatever were on the side of science and reason. But it’s clear to me that many really aren’t.

dann · 30th July 2020, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive

And now, Usurper Trump trying to prevent people from removing him democratically

Told you so!

sir drinks-a-lot · 30th July 2020, 09:05 AM

You want to start referring to Trump as Hitler now??

What took you so long?

carlitos · 30th July 2020, 09:11 AM

Meanwhile, Bushitler is speaking at John Lewis' funeral today.

lomiller · 30th July 2020, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Rioters and looters using brownshirt tactics are brownshirts.

protesting isn’t a fascist technique. Blaming the protesters and using that as an excuse to attack them is the fascist go-to.

To be fair, though, that’s a go to of dictatorships in general not one exclusive to fascism. Eg China is trying the very same thing to pro-democracy protestors in Hong Kong. Then again, with the Chinese governments current approach to business probably makes them more fascist than communist, so maybe that isn’t a great example.

dann · 30th July 2020, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Meanwhile, Bushitler is speaking at John Lewis' funeral today.

He must have confused him with Herman Cain.

lomiller · 30th July 2020, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

What separates nascent fascism from authoritarianism?

Some basic tents of fascism.

Profit motive for private companies is good, so long as it remains subservient to "National Interest". The "national interest" was invariably defined as whatever the leader wanted. IOW private companies are great so long as they made the polices of the Party leader their highest priority. Business that backed the leader were rewarded, those that failed to do so were punished.

Basically the Trump Whitehouse's approach to economics in a nutshell.

Fascism was "against trade" but more accurately was against imports. They wanted self sufficiency and to have everything the country used/needed to be produced locally

again, close fit with Trump

Fascism viewed itself as the productive workers and capitalists and viewed the bourgeois elite as the enemy. While not exactly the same meanings it still mirrors Republican notions of "wealth creators" vs "the liberal elite"

While fascism was overtly against individuality, and trump conservatives are ostensibly "individualists" it's been widely pointed out that Republicans really only support the freedom to be exactly like them. Different attitudes, values, religion (or lack thereof) etc are not tolerated or accepted. Again this states to resemble another key fascist tenant even though it claims to be the polar opposite.

BobTheCoward · 30th July 2020, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Some basic tents of fascism.

Profit motive for private companies is good, so long as it remains subservient to "National Interest". The "national interest" was invariably defined as whatever the leader wanted. IOW private companies are great so long as they made the polices of the Party leader their highest priority. Business that backed the leader were rewarded, those that failed to do so were punished.

Basically the Trump Whitehouse's approach to economics in a nutshell.

Fascism was "against trade" but more accurately was against imports. They wanted self sufficiency and to have everything the country used/needed to be produced locally

again, close fit with Trump

Fascism viewed itself as the productive workers and capitalists and viewed the bourgeois elite as the enemy. While not exactly the same meanings it still mirrors Republican notions of "wealth creators" vs "the liberal elite"

While fascism was overtly against individuality, and trump conservatives are ostensibly "individualists" it's been widely pointed out that Republicans really only support the freedom to be exactly like them. Different attitudes, values, religion (or lack thereof) etc are not tolerated or accepted. Again this states to resemble another key fascist tenant even though it claims to be the polar opposite.

Then what separates this from China which seems to do these things more extensively than the US but are not fascist?

varwoche · 30th July 2020, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Meanwhile, Bushitler is speaking at John Lewis' funeral today.

The implications being (1) lots of people called Bush Hitler, (2) lots of people are calling Trump Hitler, and (3) these are equally false concepts.

1. Nobody here called Bush Hitler. And the insignificant people who did were absurdly hyperbolic.

2. Nobody here called Trump Hitler. Likening Trumpism to Fascism isn't the same thing.

3. The long, distinguished list of Republicans and Generals who have called out Trump's anti-democratic actions/words renders this absurd.

SuburbanTurkey · 30th July 2020, 10:07 AM

Americans who are honestly concerned about Trump being a budding fascist should be gunning up. Shooting is a skill that takes time and practice to gain competency, so planning ahead is important.

The Socialist Rifle Association is a good resource in the US that isn't full of MAGA CHUDs like the NRA. You might even run into a friendly suburban turkey if you join the Southern New England (CT, RI, and MA) chapter. You probably shouldn't join if you aren't comfortable associating with leftists. Bigots and cops (but I repeat myself) are not welcome and are ineligible for membership.

Unfortunately, ammo and gun prices are running wild right now after months of panic buying.

Wolrab · 30th July 2020, 10:46 AM

Quote:

protesting isn’t a fascist technique. Blaming the protesters and using that as an excuse to attack them is the fascist go-to.

Did I mention protesters? No, I did not.

uke2se · 30th July 2020, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Did I mention protesters? No, I did not.

Well, you kind of did, but you labeled them 'rioters' and 'looters', which is also out of the fascist play-book.

Take - for example - the tear-gassing of the moms in Portland. Which ones of the moms were rioting or looting?

Or - as another example - the clearing of Lafayette park prior to Trump's photo op. Who were the rioters?

Wolrab · 30th July 2020, 10:55 AM

Are you saying there are no rioters and looters?

uke2se · 30th July 2020, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Are you saying there are no rioters and looters?

I'm saying that the troops Trump has deployed are deployed against protesters. Did you find any looters or rioters in Lafayette park yet?

BStrong · 30th July 2020, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Deploying ~~troops~~ LEO's to fight fascists is fascism? What a strange concept.

FIFY

uke2se · 30th July 2020, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by BStrong

FIFY

I think it's fair to call them troops. They look like soldiers and are armed like soldiers. They are basically Trump's soldiers.

ponderingturtle · 30th July 2020, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by BStrong

FIFY

So like troops only less disciplined and more violent.

Trebuchet · 30th July 2020, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by uke2se

I think it's fair to call them troops. They look like soldiers and are armed like soldiers. They are basically Trump's soldiers.

No, they're still police. Secret State Police, if you will.

Wolrab · 30th July 2020, 11:13 AM

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...on-dc/2318177/ Nothing to see here, Move along.

uke2se · 30th July 2020, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

No, they're still police. Secret State Police, if you will.

Fair enough. It's a minor point after all.

ponderingturtle · 30th July 2020, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

No, they're still police. Secret State Police, if you will.

Exactly the military is barred from using such tactics.

uke2se · 30th July 2020, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...on-dc/2318177/ Nothing to see here, Move along.

Was that about the tear-gassing of the protesters in Lafayette park?

ETA: No, it appears to be about the day before Trump's secret police gassed peaceful protesters in Lafayette park. Kind of a strange thing to bring up in this discussion.

lomiller · 30th July 2020, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Did I mention protesters? No, I did not.

You used the same code words fascist and other dictators always use for protestors.

30th July 2020, 07:12 AM	#1
ChristianProgressive Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,828	Are we allowed to call Trump's regime fascism now? With Trump deploying his brownshirt army across the nation https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...federal-police that is illegally grabbing people off the street at random who have committed no crime https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...zee-story.html and forcing them to sign agreements not to protest in order to be released https://www.propublica.org/article/d...utional-rights ICE conducting "civilian academies" to train non-police in arrest and firearms. https://www.npr.org/local/309/2020/0...alderman-warns And now, Usurper Trump trying to prevent people from removing him democratically https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...lection-387902 Are we finally all agreed that the US is under fascist occupation, or are those of us who keep insisting that we have a functioning democratic system still going to die on that hill?
	__________________ "As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28

30th July 2020, 07:48 AM	#3
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,758	Deploying troops to fight fascists is fascism? What a strange concept.
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,758	__________________ "Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov

30th July 2020, 07:55 AM	#4
ChristianProgressive Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,828	Originally Posted by theprestige You're allowed to call it anything you want. Ironically, this means it's probably not fascism. He's following Hitler's playbook almost precisely. If his regime goosesteps like a fascist, uses the slogans and tactics of a fascist and espouses the beliefs of a fascist...do the math...
	__________________ "As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28

30th July 2020, 07:58 AM	#5
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756	Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive With Trump deploying his brownshirt army across the nation https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...federal-police that is illegally grabbing people off the street at random who have committed no crime https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...zee-story.html and forcing them to sign agreements not to protest in order to be released https://www.propublica.org/article/d...utional-rights ICE conducting "civilian academies" to train non-police in arrest and firearms. https://www.npr.org/local/309/2020/0...alderman-warns And now, Usurper Trump trying to prevent people from removing him democratically https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...lection-387902 Are we finally all agreed that the US is under fascist occupation, or are those of us who keep insisting that we have a functioning democratic system still going to die on that hill? I'm wondering if the hysterical crowd who have such thinking realize how ridiculous they sound to normal people?
TahiniBinShawarma Muse Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 756

30th July 2020, 08:10 AM	#9
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,436	Nascent fascism. Trumpism bears little resemblance to traditional GOP. It's more like facism.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

30th July 2020, 07:25 AM	#2
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,664	You're allowed to call it anything you want. Ironically, this means it's probably not fascism.

30th July 2020, 08:02 AM	#6
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,244	Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive He's following Hitler's playbook almost precisely. If his regime goosesteps like a fascist, uses the slogans and tactics of a fascist and espouses the beliefs of a fascist...do the math... I think it shows a parochial worldview constrained by a lack of knowledge on the range of authoritarian regimes. Really? In all of human history and all regimes, this is the one it is most comparable to?

30th July 2020, 08:14 AM	#10
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,775	Never attribute to fascism that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

30th July 2020, 08:19 AM	#11
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,244	Originally Posted by varwoche Nascent fascism. Trumpism bears little resemblance to traditional GOP. It's more like facism. What separates nascent fascism from authoritarianism?

30th July 2020, 08:19 AM	#12
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,436	Originally Posted by Mojo Never attribute to fascism that which is adequately explained by incompetence. Not an either/or proposition.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

30th July 2020, 08:36 AM	#13
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,664	Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive He's following Hitler's playbook almost precisely. If his regime goosesteps like a fascist, uses the slogans and tactics of a fascist and espouses the beliefs of a fascist...do the math... Sure, where "almost precisely" means "not even a little bit".

30th July 2020, 08:38 AM	#14
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,436	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward What separates nascent fascism from authoritarianism? Semantics to a large extent. The definition is fuzzy. Attributes of facism with applicability to current situation: Hyper nationalistic check Far right check Authoritarian check One party state check Positive view of violence check Opposed to free press check Charismatic, authoritarian leader with devout following check Racist check
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

30th July 2020, 08:39 AM	#15
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,775	Originally Posted by varwoche Not an either/or proposition. Yes, they aren’t mutually exclusive, but I’m pretty certain that common or garden incompetence is a lot more prevalent than fascist incompetence.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

30th July 2020, 08:42 AM	#16
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,244	Originally Posted by varwoche Semantics to a large extent. The definition is fuzzy. Attributes of facism with applicability to current situation: Hyper nationalistic check Far right check Authoritarian check One party state check Positive view of violence check Opposed to free press check Charismatic, authoritarian leader with devout following check Racist check Just starting with your first one, How do you know the difference between nationalistic normal to right wing authoritarianism and hyper nationalistic?

30th July 2020, 08:45 AM	#17
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,786	Yes, we are all finally in agreement. We are allowed to call the Trump regime fascist now. (that was sarcasm)

30th July 2020, 08:55 AM	#18
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,609	No, we are not. Originally Posted by xjx388 Tyranny! Fascism! Nazis! Dangerously mentally ill! Benghazi! Her emails! Clinton Cash! Vince Foster! I’m not seeing a whole lot of difference in the quality of “argument” there. I always thought Liberals/Progressives/Democrats/whatever were on the side of science and reason. But it’s clear to me that many really aren’t.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

30th July 2020, 08:58 AM	#19
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,609	Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive And now, Usurper Trump trying to prevent people from removing him democratically Told you so!
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

30th July 2020, 09:05 AM	#20
sir drinks-a-lot Illuminator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 4,513	You want to start referring to Trump as Hitler now?? What took you so long?
	__________________ I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln

30th July 2020, 09:11 AM	#21
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,786	Meanwhile, Bushitler is speaking at John Lewis' funeral today.

30th July 2020, 09:20 AM	#22
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,376	Originally Posted by Wolrab Rioters and looters using brownshirt tactics are brownshirts. protesting isn’t a fascist technique. Blaming the protesters and using that as an excuse to attack them is the fascist go-to. To be fair, though, that’s a go to of dictatorships in general not one exclusive to fascism. Eg China is trying the very same thing to pro-democracy protestors in Hong Kong. Then again, with the Chinese governments current approach to business probably makes them more fascist than communist, so maybe that isn’t a great example.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

30th July 2020, 09:26 AM	#23
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,609	Originally Posted by carlitos Meanwhile, Bushitler is speaking at John Lewis' funeral today. He must have confused him with Herman Cain.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

30th July 2020, 09:47 AM	#24
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,376	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward What separates nascent fascism from authoritarianism? Some basic tents of fascism. Profit motive for private companies is good, so long as it remains subservient to "National Interest". The "national interest" was invariably defined as whatever the leader wanted. IOW private companies are great so long as they made the polices of the Party leader their highest priority. Business that backed the leader were rewarded, those that failed to do so were punished. Basically the Trump Whitehouse's approach to economics in a nutshell. Fascism was "against trade" but more accurately was against imports. They wanted self sufficiency and to have everything the country used/needed to be produced locally again, close fit with Trump Fascism viewed itself as the productive workers and capitalists and viewed the bourgeois elite as the enemy. While not exactly the same meanings it still mirrors Republican notions of "wealth creators" vs "the liberal elite" While fascism was overtly against individuality, and trump conservatives are ostensibly "individualists" it's been widely pointed out that Republicans really only support the freedom to be exactly like them. Different attitudes, values, religion (or lack thereof) etc are not tolerated or accepted. Again this states to resemble another key fascist tenant even though it claims to be the polar opposite.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

30th July 2020, 09:54 AM	#25
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,244	Originally Posted by lomiller Some basic tents of fascism. Profit motive for private companies is good, so long as it remains subservient to "National Interest". The "national interest" was invariably defined as whatever the leader wanted. IOW private companies are great so long as they made the polices of the Party leader their highest priority. Business that backed the leader were rewarded, those that failed to do so were punished. Basically the Trump Whitehouse's approach to economics in a nutshell. Fascism was "against trade" but more accurately was against imports. They wanted self sufficiency and to have everything the country used/needed to be produced locally again, close fit with Trump Fascism viewed itself as the productive workers and capitalists and viewed the bourgeois elite as the enemy. While not exactly the same meanings it still mirrors Republican notions of "wealth creators" vs "the liberal elite" While fascism was overtly against individuality, and trump conservatives are ostensibly "individualists" it's been widely pointed out that Republicans really only support the freedom to be exactly like them. Different attitudes, values, religion (or lack thereof) etc are not tolerated or accepted. Again this states to resemble another key fascist tenant even though it claims to be the polar opposite. Then what separates this from China which seems to do these things more extensively than the US but are not fascist?

30th July 2020, 10:00 AM	#26
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,436	Originally Posted by carlitos Meanwhile, Bushitler is speaking at John Lewis' funeral today. The implications being (1) lots of people called Bush Hitler, (2) lots of people are calling Trump Hitler, and (3) these are equally false concepts. 1. Nobody here called Bush Hitler. And the insignificant people who did were absurdly hyperbolic. 2. Nobody here called Trump Hitler. Likening Trumpism to Fascism isn't the same thing. 3. The long, distinguished list of Republicans and Generals who have called out Trump's anti-democratic actions/words renders this absurd.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

30th July 2020, 10:07 AM	#27
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	Americans who are honestly concerned about Trump being a budding fascist should be gunning up. Shooting is a skill that takes time and practice to gain competency, so planning ahead is important. The Socialist Rifle Association is a good resource in the US that isn't full of MAGA CHUDs like the NRA. You might even run into a friendly suburban turkey if you join the Southern New England (CT, RI, and MA) chapter. You probably shouldn't join if you aren't comfortable associating with leftists. Bigots and cops (but I repeat myself) are not welcome and are ineligible for membership. Unfortunately, ammo and gun prices are running wild right now after months of panic buying.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 30th July 2020 at 10:11 AM.

30th July 2020, 10:46 AM	#28
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,758	Quote: protesting isn’t a fascist technique. Blaming the protesters and using that as an excuse to attack them is the fascist go-to. Did I mention protesters? No, I did not.
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,758	__________________ "Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov

30th July 2020, 10:53 AM	#29
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,181	Originally Posted by Wolrab Did I mention protesters? No, I did not. Well, you kind of did, but you labeled them 'rioters' and 'looters', which is also out of the fascist play-book. Take - for example - the tear-gassing of the moms in Portland. Which ones of the moms were rioting or looting? Or - as another example - the clearing of Lafayette park prior to Trump's photo op. Who were the rioters?
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 Last edited by uke2se; 30th July 2020 at 10:54 AM.

30th July 2020, 10:55 AM	#30
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,758	Are you saying there are no rioters and looters?
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,758	__________________ "Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov

30th July 2020, 11:00 AM	#31
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,181	Originally Posted by Wolrab Are you saying there are no rioters and looters? I'm saying that the troops Trump has deployed are deployed against protesters. Did you find any looters or rioters in Lafayette park yet?
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

30th July 2020, 11:04 AM	#32
BStrong Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Posts: 13,081	Originally Posted by Wolrab Deploying ~~troops~~ LEO's to fight fascists is fascism? What a strange concept. FIFY
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30th July 2020, 11:07 AM	#33
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,181	Originally Posted by BStrong FIFY I think it's fair to call them troops. They look like soldiers and are armed like soldiers. They are basically Trump's soldiers.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

30th July 2020, 11:11 AM	#34
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by BStrong FIFY So like troops only less disciplined and more violent.
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30th July 2020, 11:12 AM	#35
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,059	Originally Posted by uke2se I think it's fair to call them troops. They look like soldiers and are armed like soldiers. They are basically Trump's soldiers. No, they're still police. Secret State Police, if you will.
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30th July 2020, 11:13 AM	#36
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,758	https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...on-dc/2318177/ Nothing to see here, Move along.
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,758	__________________ "Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov

30th July 2020, 11:14 AM	#37
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,181	Originally Posted by Trebuchet No, they're still police. Secret State Police, if you will. Fair enough. It's a minor point after all.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1