Watching the debate tonight? - Page 10

Safe-Keeper · 30th September 2020, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

I was amused when Trump, who paid someone to take his SAT for him got on Biden for going to the University of Delaware. If your base is non-college educated white males, deriding someone for the school they went to is rather an odd choice. The few Trump voters smart enough to pick up on it will understand that he thinks even less of them than he does Bidden because they didn't go to any university.

Probably just Trump projecting, as usual. He's probably insecure about his own schooling, and decided to vent by attacking Biden.

Regnad Kcin · 30th September 2020, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Those were just his cuff links. I wear them sometimes with my nicer suits and dress shirts. Instead of buttons at the end of the sleeve at your wrists there are two button holes and you put the link through the hole in the cuff.

Sure, but are yours secret double-0 earpiece/microphone with a special decoder attachment cufflinks?

Dread Pirate Roberts · 30th September 2020, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

I was amused when Trump, who paid someone to take his SAT for him got on Biden for going to the University of Delaware. If your base is non-college educated white males, deriding someone for the school they went to is rather an odd choice. The few Trump voters smart enough to pick up on it will understand that he thinks even less of them than he does Bidden because they didn't go to any university.

And, he got the school wrong - he said Delaware State. My girlfriend is from the Philly area, and PA parents send a ton of kids to UD (in fact, one of my daughters is a Sophomore there). Looks like Trump pissed of a lot of Pennsylvanians by disparaging the University, which is in fact a top 50 public university.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 30th September 2020, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

He also is a much more successful businessman than Trump.

He has been running his own promotion into the ground for a while, though, because he's sure that he knows better than everybody else, no matter the evidence to the contrary.

Scopedog · 30th September 2020, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

About what? That you saw something suspicious in a video?

I saw the probable ornament of a rosary bracelet and not a cufflink. What part of this are you disputing?

The Don · 30th September 2020, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Those were just his cuff links. I wear them sometimes with my nicer suits and dress shirts. Instead of buttons at the end of the sleeve at your wrists there are two button holes and you put the link through the hole in the cuff.

President Trump was wearing cufflinks with double cuffs.

Joe Biden was wearing a shirt with single cuffs secured with buttons - he wasn't wearing cufflinks.

Scopedog · 30th September 2020, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

What with your innuendo and JAQing off?

Stop being coy and say what you mean. Then we'll agree or disagree with it.

Hahaha!

johnny karate · 30th September 2020, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Scopedog

I saw the probable ornament of a rosary bracelet and not a cufflink. What part of this are you disputing?

I haven’t disputed anything. You said you saw something suspicious in a video, and so far, I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Horatius · 30th September 2020, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

I remember strongly disliking Bush, and yet, when it was was over, I found that more than anything, I just felt bad for the guy.

Bush's Presidency kind of got screwed by history. The events of 9/11 made everyone forget: the 2000 election wasn't supposed to be about a historic choice for who would lead the world against Islamic Terror. Both parties nominated the blandest candidate they could. No one wanted to rock the boat, we'd won the Cold War, the economy was doing well, we all thought we'd get rich off the Internet. The election was so bland that it came down to a statistical coin flip as to who won. Without the Florida Debacle and 9/11, Bush would have been an unremarkable, middling President, which is what most people wanted at the time.

Then things blew up in his face, and he found himself out of his depth. Everything that followed was the result of him being the wrong person for the job he ended up facing.

Originally Posted by johnny karate

When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that.

Understanding that would require they know the difference between someone who is actually joking, and someone who just says they were joking. It's clear that the vast majority of Trump supporters don't understand the difference.

Lurch · 30th September 2020, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I think Joe is onto something here, although I don't know that he took it far enough.

What if Trump sat down with his campaign strategists before the debate and decided that at this point in the race, very few minds were going to change. Therefore, it's all about turnout. In that case, Trump wins if he can depress voter turnout.

If we assume that Trump's conscious goal was to get people to stay home on election day, everything he did makes sense.

It goes along with this story:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...16/3567588001/

For those who haven't seen it, it's about a leak of Trump's campaign data from 2016, showing that millions of Americans were targeted with "deterrence" ads. These were ads specifically aimed at depressing voter turnout among people who were more likely to vote for Hillary Clinton. It was a conscious, deliberate, strategy on his part.

What if that circus* last night was also part of that strategy? If so, I'm sure it worked. I'm sure that the antics last night will keep people away from the polls, and in a pattern that means Biden loses more votes that way than Trump. Some of his comments, like bringing up "you just lost the far left" were clearly aimed at that tactic, but the entire performance would have had that effect.

In a strange way, I find this even more sickening than the overt voter suppression techniques that we have seen that use just barely legal, or even illegal, tactics to disenfranchise people. That's despicable, trying to prevent people from expressing their choice. However, this Trump campaign tactic is more aimed at the actual soul of the voters. It aims not to keep them down, but to convince them there is no point in getting up. It's very disturbing.

I hope the Biden team recognizes it, and is effective in countering it. If this tactic were to succeed, it would not merely mean that Trump would be president for another four years, it would mean that he was successful in sapping the spirit of the American people. That's a lot bigger deal than just four years of bad policies.

*Circus workers have expressed offense at this comparison.

If Americans are so easily dissuaded from protecting democracy itself (or worse yet, too doltish to see the danger), then if Trump does squeak out a win due to their apathy, the country fully deserves the Orange Excrescence.

Will the Deplorables prevail? This is a test of the national will to democracy.

JoeMorgue · 30th September 2020, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

What if that circus* last night was also part of that strategy?

Here's the thing though. It's not a "strategy" and thinking about it in those terms is dangerous.

A two year having a temper tantrum isn't deploying a strategy, but they can still ruin your evening at the nice restaurant. You don't deal with screaming toddler by outthinking their strategy.

Biden was never going to "out debate" Trump in the way Trump thinks of it, no more than you could out debate an air horn set go off on random.

Trump doesn't sit down and think of these complicated plans to expertly get under the skin of da Lirburls. He's a troll, not Hannibal Lector or Keyzer Soze.

Again against "I'm going to flip the board over and declare myself the winner" the answer is not "Play better chess."

Safe-Keeper · 30th September 2020, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

*Circus workers have expressed offense at this comparison.

Have worked at a circus, can confirm

.

A travelling circus is all about cooperation, coordination, good communication, hard work, and a solid plan you follow thoroughly to keep on top of things.

Nothing in the Trump administration resembles a circus in any way whatsoever. Okay, maybe a circus with animals.

Scopedog · 30th September 2020, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that.

When accused by Trump during the debate, Biden denied saying it, therefore it should be identified as a Biden lie during the debate in an article about Presidential candidate's lies during a debate.

johnny karate · 30th September 2020, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts

And, he got the school wrong - he said Delaware State. My girlfriend is from the Philly area, and PA parents send a ton of kids to UD (in fact, one of my daughters is a Sophomore there). Looks like Trump pissed of a lot of Pennsylvanians by disparaging the University, which is in fact a top 50 public university.

“Bad things happen in Philadelphia.”

- guy running for President about the biggest city in a battleground state, on live television.

johnny karate · 30th September 2020, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Scopedog

When accused by Trump during the debate, Biden denied saying it, therefore it should be identified as a Biden lie during the debate in an article about Presidential candidate's lies during a debate.

You go right ahead and do that.

Regnad Kcin · 30th September 2020, 08:40 AM

Sad to say, 98+% of the talk today is about Trump's debate "performance", with his tax returns, the determination to crash the election, and the effing tape recording of him admitting to flat out lying about the coronavirus relegated to birdcage liner.

kookbreaker · 30th September 2020, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

“Bad things happen in Philadelphia.”

- guy running for President about the biggest city in a battleground state, on live television.

He’s writing off Philly. The GOP has written off cities in general but the GOP in particular has tried to make Philly the pillar in their accusations of voter fraud since 2008 despite a singular lack of a shred of evidence. Instead he’s hoping for the voters in the rest of the state who utter despise,loathe, and envy the big cities and their suburbs to rally and support him.

Scopedog · 30th September 2020, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

I haven’t disputed anything. You said you saw something suspicious in a video, and so far, I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Someone else mentioned the allegation of a device in Biden's sleeve and I've seen the videos and pictures and I offered my opinion of what it was. What's unseemly about this to you?

shemp · 30th September 2020, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Cut his mike when it isn't his turn to speak.

Cut off his supply of Big Macs and Cheetos when he gets out of line.

Scopedog · 30th September 2020, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

You go right ahead and do that.

I don't work for The Washington Post.

johnny karate · 30th September 2020, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Scopedog

Someone else mentioned the allegation of a device in Biden's sleeve and I've seen the videos and pictures and I offered my opinion of what it was. What's unseemly about this to you?

I didn’t say it was unseemly.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 30th September 2020, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

That to me looks like catering to the audience, rather than insulting anybody. When I was done soundchecking drummers, I always used to say "ooh, you noisy bastard/bitch". Why? Because it was appropriate for the situation, they liked it, and it thereby helped build a rapport.

Scopedog · 30th September 2020, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

I didn’t say it was unseemly.

Very well. For what it's worth, I didn't say the object was suspicious to me (I thought, perhaps wrongly, that was implied by my proposed explanation of what it was) so maybe that's where a miscommunication occured.

varwoche · 30th September 2020, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

That to me looks like catering to the audience, rather than insulting anybody. When I was done soundchecking drummers, I always used to say "ooh, you noisy bastard/bitch". Why? Because it was appropriate for the situation, they liked it, and it thereby helped build a rapport.

I assume that Mike! Is clarifying an opaque poster and not actually foisting this crap. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

JoeMorgue · 30th September 2020, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

That to me looks like catering to the audience, rather than insulting anybody. When I was done soundchecking drummers, I always used to say "ooh, you noisy bastard/bitch". Why? Because it was appropriate for the situation, they liked it, and it thereby helped build a rapport.

It's the military. "Hey **** Face" with a friendly smack on the nuts directed at people who you would literally die for and trust them to die for you is considered Royal Court Protocol there.

Scopedog · 30th September 2020, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

I assume that Mike! Is clarifying an opaque poster and not actually foisting this crap. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

During the debate, Biden denied saying it, but he unambiguously said it, therefore he lied during the debate. I don't really care that he said it (and I'm a former US troop) but I know it would be a very awkward and uncomfortable thing to explain or defend in the debate format so he lied and evaded.

alfaniner · 30th September 2020, 09:13 AM

Whether Biden was wearing an earpiece or not should not matter. (even though I don't believe it happened). I believe that some stutterers have a device that provides feedback to their ear to help with the condition, but I have no evidence that this was the case in the debate.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Honestly, and I hate the fact that I notice this because it shouldn't matter, it's because Biden actually had a suit that fit.

You're Trump. You own clothing companies and you know the White House has some of the best tailors and fitters on the planet. How are you still wearing that off the rack, hunched shoulder, bad fitting suit? You look a used car salesman who moonlights as Arby's Manager and doesn't want to admit he's gained weight and his suit doesn't fit anymore.

The second The PDJT walked out on stage I said "Omg, his hair looks like ******" It was especially noticeable from the profile view, not much of which one got during the actual debate.

varwoche · 30th September 2020, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Scopedog

During the debate, Biden denied saying it, but he unambiguously said it, therefore he lied during the debate. I don't really care that he said it (and I'm a former US troop) but I know it would be a very awkward and uncomfortable thing to explain or defend in the debate format so he lied and evaded.

Seeing as Biden was abruptly interrupted min sentence, we'll never know how he would have completed that thought.

Bob001 · 30th September 2020, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that.

Context is all, although it still sounds like a stupid thing to say to any crowd.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...upid-bastards/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3560443001/

pgwenthold · 30th September 2020, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

I feel obligated to pop in here and remind everyone that Trump’s response when asked to denounce white supremacy was “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.”

That is all.

I saw someone still try to claim that he has "disavowed" the Proud Boys. They were like, "He did it, you just haven't heard it."

I was like, ask the Proud Boys what they have heard. The message to them was loud and clear. They already have shirts made up.

This is what I always say about this. Is Trump a raging racist? I don't know, let's ask the KKK what they think. Turns out, they love him.

Is Biden a Marxist? Ask Marxists what they think....(no friggin way)

Scopedog · 30th September 2020, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Seeing as Biden was abruptly interrupted min sentence, we'll never know how he would have completed that thought.

True, I'll concede that.

Originally Posted by Bob001

Context is all, although it still sounds like a stupid thing to say to any crowd.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...upid-bastards/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3560443001/

Biden has great judgement (which he says before calling his audience, perhaps affectionately, 'stupid bastards').

pgwenthold · 30th September 2020, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

The Dems are playing 3D chess while Trump is playing classic Checkers with the single minded motivation of just getting to the far side of the board and shouting, "King me!"

I'm pretty sure it was JoeMorgue who said something like, "The Dems are playing 3D chess, while Trump is on a checkerboard pulling down his pants and crapping on the squares."

Maybe wasn't Joe, and maybe I didn't read it hear, but doesn't matter.

As I think about it, I think about the South Park episode with Mel Gibson.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Safe-Keeper · 30th September 2020, 09:33 AM

Of course, it matters not anyway. It's like two kids taking a test, and one has to have a parent-teacher meeting afterwards because he started yelling loudly when the test started and refused to stop, and then tore up the test and ran out of the room after having thrown his chair at the teacher, while the other sits at home wondering if she got question 23 wrong.

pgwenthold · 30th September 2020, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

Mark Hamill on Twitter:

To be fair, it's not clear that Mark Hamill _watched_ the Star Wars Christmas Special.

Trebuchet · 30th September 2020, 09:35 AM

Having spent far too much time just now in reading this thread, I am pleased that my decision not to watch was the correct one!
I don't think I ever had a thread hit 10 pages in 24 hours before!

JoeMorgue · 30th September 2020, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

I'm pretty sure it was JoeMorgue who said something like, "The Dems are playing 3D chess, while Trump is on a checkerboard pulling down his pants and crapping on the squares."

Yeah that's been my go-to metaphor for a while now.

But to be fair Mike! was responding to me, so I think he gets that.

Bob001 · 30th September 2020, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Scopedog

True, I'll concede that.

Biden has great judgement (which he says before calling his audience, perhaps affectionately, 'stupid bastards').

The context, from the links, is that he called for applause for a young officer he had just praised, and after a lukewarm response he called for more. If "stupid bastards" meant anything here, it meant "Show this person you like her."

Quote:

“Vice President Biden was jokingly encouraging the audience to clap for an airwoman on the stage, and a number of service members can be seen laughing and smiling at the comment. Seconds before, he praised them for 'the incredible sacrifices (they) make for our country,’” Bates told The Daily Beast.

Foster Zygote · 30th September 2020, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Having spent far too much time just now in reading this thread, I am pleased that my decision not to watch was the correct one!
I don't think I ever had a thread hit 10 pages in 24 hours before!

Same here.

BobTheCoward · 30th September 2020, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

I saw someone still try to claim that he has "disavowed" the Proud Boys. They were like, "He did it, you just haven't heard it."

I was like, ask the Proud Boys what they have heard. The message to them was loud and clear. They already have shirts made up.

This is what I always say about this. Is Trump a raging racist? I don't know, let's ask the KKK what they think. Turns out, they love him.

Is Biden a Marxist? Ask Marxists what they think....(no friggin way)

The proud boys are not going to stand down from the violence they are currently doing. Such a weird thing for them to be thrilled about....of course if I liked Trump I would be that inconsistent too.

varwoche · 30th September 2020, 09:46 AM

It was amusing when Dana Bash called it a **** show. The times they are a changing.

30th September 2020, 08:17 AM	#361
Safe-Keeper Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 10,389	Originally Posted by Craig4 I was amused when Trump, who paid someone to take his SAT for him got on Biden for going to the University of Delaware. If your base is non-college educated white males, deriding someone for the school they went to is rather an odd choice. The few Trump voters smart enough to pick up on it will understand that he thinks even less of them than he does Bidden because they didn't go to any university. Probably just Trump projecting, as usual. He's probably insecure about his own schooling, and decided to vent by attacking Biden.
	__________________ "He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

30th September 2020, 08:24 AM	#362
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,236	Originally Posted by Craig4 Those were just his cuff links. I wear them sometimes with my nicer suits and dress shirts. Instead of buttons at the end of the sleeve at your wrists there are two button holes and you put the link through the hole in the cuff. Sure, but are yours secret double-0 earpiece/microphone with a special decoder attachment cufflinks?
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. Last edited by Regnad Kcin; 30th September 2020 at 08:35 AM.

30th September 2020, 08:25 AM	#364
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,237	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle He also is a much more successful businessman than Trump. He has been running his own promotion into the ground for a while, though, because he's sure that he knows better than everybody else, no matter the evidence to the contrary.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

30th September 2020, 08:31 AM	#365
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739	Originally Posted by johnny karate About what? That you saw something suspicious in a video? I saw the probable ornament of a rosary bracelet and not a cufflink. What part of this are you disputing?
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739

30th September 2020, 08:32 AM	#367
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue What with your innuendo and JAQing off? Stop being coy and say what you mean. Then we'll agree or disagree with it. Hahaha!
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739

30th September 2020, 08:25 AM	#363
Dread Pirate Roberts Thinker Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 204	Originally Posted by Craig4 I was amused when Trump, who paid someone to take his SAT for him got on Biden for going to the University of Delaware. If your base is non-college educated white males, deriding someone for the school they went to is rather an odd choice. The few Trump voters smart enough to pick up on it will understand that he thinks even less of them than he does Bidden because they didn't go to any university. And, he got the school wrong - he said Delaware State. My girlfriend is from the Philly area, and PA parents send a ton of kids to UD (in fact, one of my daughters is a Sophomore there). Looks like Trump pissed of a lot of Pennsylvanians by disparaging the University, which is in fact a top 50 public university.

30th September 2020, 08:31 AM	#366
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,325	Originally Posted by Craig4 Those were just his cuff links. I wear them sometimes with my nicer suits and dress shirts. Instead of buttons at the end of the sleeve at your wrists there are two button holes and you put the link through the hole in the cuff. President Trump was wearing cufflinks with double cuffs. Joe Biden was wearing a shirt with single cuffs secured with buttons - he wasn't wearing cufflinks.

30th September 2020, 08:33 AM	#368
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,372	Originally Posted by Scopedog I saw the probable ornament of a rosary bracelet and not a cufflink. What part of this are you disputing? I haven’t disputed anything. You said you saw something suspicious in a video, and so far, I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

30th September 2020, 08:33 AM	#369
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,006	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper I remember strongly disliking Bush, and yet, when it was was over, I found that more than anything, I just felt bad for the guy. Bush's Presidency kind of got screwed by history. The events of 9/11 made everyone forget: the 2000 election wasn't supposed to be about a historic choice for who would lead the world against Islamic Terror. Both parties nominated the blandest candidate they could. No one wanted to rock the boat, we'd won the Cold War, the economy was doing well, we all thought we'd get rich off the Internet. The election was so bland that it came down to a statistical coin flip as to who won. Without the Florida Debacle and 9/11, Bush would have been an unremarkable, middling President, which is what most people wanted at the time. Then things blew up in his face, and he found himself out of his depth. Everything that followed was the result of him being the wrong person for the job he ended up facing. Originally Posted by johnny karate When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that. Understanding that would require they know the difference between someone who is actually joking, and someone who just says they were joking. It's clear that the vast majority of Trump supporters don't understand the difference.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

30th September 2020, 08:35 AM	#370
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,646	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I think Joe is onto something here, although I don't know that he took it far enough. What if Trump sat down with his campaign strategists before the debate and decided that at this point in the race, very few minds were going to change. Therefore, it's all about turnout. In that case, Trump wins if he can depress voter turnout. If we assume that Trump's conscious goal was to get people to stay home on election day, everything he did makes sense. It goes along with this story: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...16/3567588001/ For those who haven't seen it, it's about a leak of Trump's campaign data from 2016, showing that millions of Americans were targeted with "deterrence" ads. These were ads specifically aimed at depressing voter turnout among people who were more likely to vote for Hillary Clinton. It was a conscious, deliberate, strategy on his part. What if that circus* last night was also part of that strategy? If so, I'm sure it worked. I'm sure that the antics last night will keep people away from the polls, and in a pattern that means Biden loses more votes that way than Trump. Some of his comments, like bringing up "you just lost the far left" were clearly aimed at that tactic, but the entire performance would have had that effect. In a strange way, I find this even more sickening than the overt voter suppression techniques that we have seen that use just barely legal, or even illegal, tactics to disenfranchise people. That's despicable, trying to prevent people from expressing their choice. However, this Trump campaign tactic is more aimed at the actual soul of the voters. It aims not to keep them down, but to convince them there is no point in getting up. It's very disturbing. I hope the Biden team recognizes it, and is effective in countering it. If this tactic were to succeed, it would not merely mean that Trump would be president for another four years, it would mean that he was successful in sapping the spirit of the American people. That's a lot bigger deal than just four years of bad policies. *Circus workers have expressed offense at this comparison. If Americans are so easily dissuaded from protecting democracy itself (or worse yet, too doltish to see the danger), then if Trump does squeak out a win due to their apathy, the country fully deserves the Orange Excrescence. Will the Deplorables prevail? This is a test of the national will to democracy.

30th September 2020, 08:35 AM	#371
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,568	Originally Posted by Meadmaker What if that circus* last night was also part of that strategy? Here's the thing though. It's not a "strategy" and thinking about it in those terms is dangerous. A two year having a temper tantrum isn't deploying a strategy, but they can still ruin your evening at the nice restaurant. You don't deal with screaming toddler by outthinking their strategy. Biden was never going to "out debate" Trump in the way Trump thinks of it, no more than you could out debate an air horn set go off on random. Trump doesn't sit down and think of these complicated plans to expertly get under the skin of da Lirburls. He's a troll, not Hannibal Lector or Keyzer Soze. Again against "I'm going to flip the board over and declare myself the winner" the answer is not "Play better chess."
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

30th September 2020, 08:35 AM	#372
Safe-Keeper Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 10,389	Originally Posted by Meadmaker *Circus workers have expressed offense at this comparison. Have worked at a circus, can confirm . A travelling circus is all about cooperation, coordination, good communication, hard work, and a solid plan you follow thoroughly to keep on top of things. Nothing in the Trump administration resembles a circus in any way whatsoever. Okay, maybe a circus with animals.
	__________________ "He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

30th September 2020, 08:37 AM	#373
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739	Originally Posted by johnny karate When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that. When accused by Trump during the debate, Biden denied saying it, therefore it should be identified as a Biden lie during the debate in an article about Presidential candidate's lies during a debate.
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739

30th September 2020, 08:38 AM	#374
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,372	Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts And, he got the school wrong - he said Delaware State. My girlfriend is from the Philly area, and PA parents send a ton of kids to UD (in fact, one of my daughters is a Sophomore there). Looks like Trump pissed of a lot of Pennsylvanians by disparaging the University, which is in fact a top 50 public university. “Bad things happen in Philadelphia.” - guy running for President about the biggest city in a battleground state, on live television.

30th September 2020, 08:40 AM	#375
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,372	Originally Posted by Scopedog When accused by Trump during the debate, Biden denied saying it, therefore it should be identified as a Biden lie during the debate in an article about Presidential candidate's lies during a debate. You go right ahead and do that.

30th September 2020, 08:40 AM	#376
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,236	Sad to say, 98+% of the talk today is about Trump's debate "performance", with his tax returns, the determination to crash the election, and the effing tape recording of him admitting to flat out lying about the coronavirus relegated to birdcage liner.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. Last edited by Regnad Kcin; 30th September 2020 at 08:43 AM.

30th September 2020, 08:42 AM	#377
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,165	Originally Posted by johnny karate “Bad things happen in Philadelphia.” - guy running for President about the biggest city in a battleground state, on live television. He’s writing off Philly. The GOP has written off cities in general but the GOP in particular has tried to make Philly the pillar in their accusations of voter fraud since 2008 despite a singular lack of a shred of evidence. Instead he’s hoping for the voters in the rest of the state who utter despise,loathe, and envy the big cities and their suburbs to rally and support him.
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

30th September 2020, 08:42 AM	#378
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739	Originally Posted by johnny karate I haven’t disputed anything. You said you saw something suspicious in a video, and so far, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Someone else mentioned the allegation of a device in Biden's sleeve and I've seen the videos and pictures and I offered my opinion of what it was. What's unseemly about this to you?
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739

30th September 2020, 08:45 AM	#379
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,181	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Cut his mike when it isn't his turn to speak. Cut off his supply of Big Macs and Cheetos when he gets out of line.
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

30th September 2020, 08:45 AM	#380
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739	Originally Posted by johnny karate You go right ahead and do that. I don't work for The Washington Post.
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739

30th September 2020, 08:46 AM	#381
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,372	Originally Posted by Scopedog Someone else mentioned the allegation of a device in Biden's sleeve and I've seen the videos and pictures and I offered my opinion of what it was. What's unseemly about this to you? I didn’t say it was unseemly.

30th September 2020, 08:50 AM	#383
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739	Originally Posted by johnny karate I didn’t say it was unseemly. Very well. For what it's worth, I didn't say the object was suspicious to me (I thought, perhaps wrongly, that was implied by my proposed explanation of what it was) so maybe that's where a miscommunication occured.
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739

30th September 2020, 08:52 AM	#384
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,402	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim That to me looks like catering to the audience, rather than insulting anybody. When I was done soundchecking drummers, I always used to say "ooh, you noisy bastard/bitch". Why? Because it was appropriate for the situation, they liked it, and it thereby helped build a rapport. I assume that Mike! Is clarifying an opaque poster and not actually foisting this crap. He can correct me if I'm wrong.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot. My authority is total - Trump

30th September 2020, 08:53 AM	#385
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,568	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim That to me looks like catering to the audience, rather than insulting anybody. When I was done soundchecking drummers, I always used to say "ooh, you noisy bastard/bitch". Why? Because it was appropriate for the situation, they liked it, and it thereby helped build a rapport. It's the military. "Hey **** Face" with a friendly smack on the nuts directed at people who you would literally die for and trust them to die for you is considered Royal Court Protocol there.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

30th September 2020, 08:56 AM	#386
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739	Originally Posted by varwoche I assume that Mike! Is clarifying an opaque poster and not actually foisting this crap. He can correct me if I'm wrong. During the debate, Biden denied saying it, but he unambiguously said it, therefore he lied during the debate. I don't really care that he said it (and I'm a former US troop) but I know it would be a very awkward and uncomfortable thing to explain or defend in the debate format so he lied and evaded.
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739

30th September 2020, 09:13 AM	#387
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 24,842	Whether Biden was wearing an earpiece or not should not matter. (even though I don't believe it happened). I believe that some stutterers have a device that provides feedback to their ear to help with the condition, but I have no evidence that this was the case in the debate. Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Honestly, and I hate the fact that I notice this because it shouldn't matter, it's because Biden actually had a suit that fit. You're Trump. You own clothing companies and you know the White House has some of the best tailors and fitters on the planet. How are you still wearing that off the rack, hunched shoulder, bad fitting suit? You look a used car salesman who moonlights as Arby's Manager and doesn't want to admit he's gained weight and his suit doesn't fit anymore. The second The PDJT walked out on stage I said "Omg, his hair looks like ******" It was especially noticeable from the profile view, not much of which one got during the actual debate.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

30th September 2020, 09:17 AM	#388
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,402	Originally Posted by Scopedog During the debate, Biden denied saying it, but he unambiguously said it, therefore he lied during the debate. I don't really care that he said it (and I'm a former US troop) but I know it would be a very awkward and uncomfortable thing to explain or defend in the debate format so he lied and evaded. Seeing as Biden was abruptly interrupted min sentence, we'll never know how he would have completed that thought.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot. My authority is total - Trump

30th September 2020, 09:19 AM	#389
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,609	Originally Posted by johnny karate When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that. Context is all, although it still sounds like a stupid thing to say to any crowd. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...upid-bastards/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3560443001/
	Last edited by Bob001; 30th September 2020 at 09:24 AM.

30th September 2020, 09:27 AM	#390
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 20,129	Originally Posted by johnny karate I feel obligated to pop in here and remind everyone that Trump’s response when asked to denounce white supremacy was “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.” That is all. I saw someone still try to claim that he has "disavowed" the Proud Boys. They were like, "He did it, you just haven't heard it." I was like, ask the Proud Boys what they have heard. The message to them was loud and clear. They already have shirts made up. This is what I always say about this. Is Trump a raging racist? I don't know, let's ask the KKK what they think. Turns out, they love him. Is Biden a Marxist? Ask Marxists what they think....(no friggin way)
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

30th September 2020, 09:29 AM	#391
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739	Originally Posted by varwoche Seeing as Biden was abruptly interrupted min sentence, we'll never know how he would have completed that thought. True, I'll concede that. Originally Posted by Bob001 Context is all, although it still sounds like a stupid thing to say to any crowd. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...upid-bastards/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3560443001/ Biden has great judgement (which he says before calling his audience, perhaps affectionately, 'stupid bastards').
Scopedog Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 739

30th September 2020, 09:33 AM	#393
Safe-Keeper Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 10,389	Of course, it matters not anyway. It's like two kids taking a test, and one has to have a parent-teacher meeting afterwards because he started yelling loudly when the test started and refused to stop, and then tore up the test and ran out of the room after having thrown his chair at the teacher, while the other sits at home wondering if she got question 23 wrong.
	__________________ "He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

30th September 2020, 09:33 AM	#394
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 20,129	Originally Posted by shemp Mark Hamill on Twitter: To be fair, it's not clear that Mark Hamill _watched_ the Star Wars Christmas Special.
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

30th September 2020, 09:35 AM	#395
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,983	Having spent far too much time just now in reading this thread, I am pleased that my decision not to watch was the correct one! I don't think I ever had a thread hit 10 pages in 24 hours before!
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

30th September 2020, 09:40 AM	#396
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,568	Originally Posted by pgwenthold I'm pretty sure it was JoeMorgue who said something like, "The Dems are playing 3D chess, while Trump is on a checkerboard pulling down his pants and crapping on the squares." Yeah that's been my go-to metaphor for a while now. But to be fair Mike! was responding to me, so I think he gets that.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

30th September 2020, 09:42 AM	#397
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,609	Originally Posted by Scopedog True, I'll concede that. Biden has great judgement (which he says before calling his audience, perhaps affectionately, 'stupid bastards'). The context, from the links, is that he called for applause for a young officer he had just praised, and after a lukewarm response he called for more. If "stupid bastards" meant anything here, it meant "Show this person you like her." Quote: “Vice President Biden was jokingly encouraging the audience to clap for an airwoman on the stage, and a number of service members can be seen laughing and smiling at the comment. Seconds before, he praised them for 'the incredible sacrifices (they) make for our country,’” Bates told The Daily Beast.