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Old 15th December 2020, 09:54 PM   #1
DebunkThisPls
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Disappearing Santa Hat

I really need an answer from a skeptic. This just happened about 20 minutes ago. I had a Santa hat that I left on the couch. It was there for maybe 2 hours, at least I know for a fact it was, and walked in and out of the living room several times between 8-10. But at around 10, i started watching a movie with my sister. I was on the couch the whole time, didn't move once. I am 99.999% sure the Santa hat was beside me. I have a memory of looking at it, in the dark with the TV on. The room was only dark during the movie, when I didn't move, and I haven't had the hat since the first when I put it in the closet by mistake and just never felt like getting it. Ok, but the big part is that I walked into my bedroom at around 11 when the movie was over (it was a TV special but same thing) I saw it sitting on my bed. Now, between 8-10 I walked into my room at least 5-10 times. I don't have a memory of moving it, and my sister nor my mom saw me do so, but it is possible I moved it and forgot about it, which I've doing a lot recently. Yet that doesn't explain why I remember seeing it. It's really, really, scaring me. I'm kinda freaking out right now, and I know I can't get a definitive answer, I just could really use some speculation about this

Edit: Now that I think about it, between 8-10, the last time that I know for a fact that I saw it, I only got up once, and I did go in that area, but I don't remember walking over far enough to grab rhe hat, as I wouldve had to walk over at least another 5-10 feet

Edit 2: Just had the Hat in my room, right next to a shirt on my bed. I was laying down. I got up once but I can't remember if it was before or after I had placed it here. It's not there. Found it in the same place I thought saw it the other time. I'm scared out of my mind. No one's playing a prank on me, I was with the whole family the whole time, except for my dad but he was in my parents room and never got up once. We only have two hats and one has a much bigger pom pom, so it's very easy to tell the difference between the two. My mom and sister remember seeing the Hat before the movie started so I couldn't have hallucinated the whole thing, it's still possible I hallucinated or misremebered one part, but it was there at one point in time. And for the second one I know for a fact I had it there because I even took a picture, as i was so scared what happened the first time might happen again and i wanted to be skeptical and sure I had it. Now, I don't know when I went in the other room, I just know that i walked to around that area of the couch , talked to my mom, and said told her I was going to bed. I don't remember, at least 100% if I saw the Hat when I went into my room, as my memory there is a bit foggy since I cut the lights off and i tend to forget when i can't see well. But look, I'm really, really scared right now. I don't think this is real anymore, I think this may be a simulation. I know I've had lots of these issues over the last couple months as a result of my depression and anxiety, but those times I had possible explanations, this time I have people who saw it with me and I can't wrap my head around either one
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:04 PM   #2
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You said you are Eastern time in the USA.

What time did you make this post?

Where are your parents?
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:05 PM   #3
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My parents are in bed now. Not sure if this is the same person I just replied to, if it is, I hope my other comment answered this question, if it isn't, please tell me and I'll be happy to answer it
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:07 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
My parents are in bed now. Not sure if this is the same person I just replied to, if it is, I hope my other comment answered this question, if it isn't, please tell me and I'll be happy to answer it
So you are 14 and typing on forums at midnight?
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
You said you are Eastern time in the USA.

What time did you make this post?

Where are your parents?
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
So you are 14 and typing on forums at midnight?
Normally I wouldnt but there are two reasons why I am

1. We have a snow day at school so I can stay up later

And 2. This whole thing has been so scary I just couldn't put it off and wait to ask for possible explanations
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:17 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
Normally I wouldnt but there are two reasons why I am
Sooooooo you are 14 years old, typing on a forum at midnight, while your parents are in bed, on a week night.

Has it occurred to you you may be sleep deprived?
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:21 PM   #7
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From the other thread.

Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
I'll be sure to do this. But before it's been times when I know I was right next to the object and couldve picked it up, here I wouldve had to go out of my way, forget about it, and have a hallucination/ false memory and for the second one I wouldve had to move stuff, climb on my bed and pick it up and move it, then forget about it without two adults noticing. Plus I wouldve had to have a maybe fake memory of me seeing it before cutting off my lights (since I was in bed the whole time after that, although I do think that, even if it was in my room, is a fake memory, because I wouldve only seen it out of the corner of my eye and i probably wouldn't have acknowleged it).
No-one suggested that the placticity of memory is responsible for 100% of such incidents. Just that there are mundane explanations that no-one has thought of yet. For example - and I'm not suggesting that this is a true explanation and in fact I'm almost certain that it isn't - someone in your family may be pranking you.

Keeping a diary of events will help you in a number of ways. First, if you continue to discuss the issue with a doctor, you now have a record from which patterns may emerge. Also, once you start writing down what's been happening, the immediately scary edge of the incidents will be blunted. And occurrences like this can be genuinely scary.

My next suggestion to you right now is to grab a trashy fiction novel, prepare yourself a hot chocolate or your favourite bedtime beverage, go to bed and read until you fall asleep. If you wake up during the night, try and right down what you remember of your dreams. Not because dreams have any special significance, but because again, writing down details of dreams can render them less scary.
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Sooooooo you are 14 years old, typing on a forum at midnight, while your parents are in bed, on a week night.

Has it occurred to you you may be sleep deprived?
Um, all this went down an hour and a half ago now, some even earlier. Sure, I may be a bit deprived but that still wouldn't explain why two people saw the hat and no one saw me move it or move at all. I mean for the first one it wouldve been around 9:30, I wouldnt have been tired then and it's possible I moved it, it's just that I have no memory of it and I wouldve had to go out of my way by 5-10 feet to grab it. And for the second one, I took a picture to make sure I wasn't crazy if something weird happened again, and even though it is still technically possible I grabbed it, I still wouldve had to grabbed it and completely forgotten about it, plus go out of my way to get it.
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:25 PM   #9
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I'm tired now so I am going to go to sleep, hopefully I can think straight in the morning and I'll interact with y'all then
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:31 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
Um, all this went down an hour and a half ago now, some even earlier. Sure, I may be a bit deprived but that still wouldn't explain why two people saw the hat and no one saw me move it or move at all.
Skeptics, like detectives, log times, to methodically check basic facts first.

A 14 year old posting on a forum at half past midnight, on a week night, about a Christmas hat that may or may not have been moved by the three other people in your house, does raise a skeptic eyebrow.


Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
I took a picture to make sure ...
Post the photo.
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
I'm tired now so I am going to go to sleep, hopefully I can think straight in the morning and I'll interact with y'all then
See the little arrow on the left? It tells us you are still logged on at 12.45 after midnight.
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Old 15th December 2020, 10:35 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
A 14 year old posting on a forum at half past midnight, on a week night, about a Christmas hat that may or may not have been moved by the three other people in your house, does raise a skeptic eyebrow.
Give the kid a break. When I was 14 I definiitely stayed up well past midnight on weeknights.
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Old 15th December 2020, 11:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Give the kid a break. When I was 14 I definiitely stayed up well past midnight on weeknights.
I don't think our friend is being honest with us. As I said experienced skeptics keep time logs.

Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
I forgot to add I live in Texas, not NY
Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
I'm in the Eastern time zone
Texas is in the Central Standard Time and all the times he has been given are complete nonsense.
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Old 15th December 2020, 11:31 PM   #14
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Eastern Time Zone....of Russia. Also, has there been any snow on the Eastern USA yet? A storm is heading for NYC, but otherwise...anything?
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Old 15th December 2020, 11:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
We have a snow day at school so I can stay up later
Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls two days ago
I forgot to add I live in Texas, not NY
Hmmmmmm the Texas snow report isn't showing any schools being closed due to snow.......

Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
Eastern time zone
Yet Texas is in the Central Time Zone.....
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Old 15th December 2020, 11:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Eastern Time Zone....of Russia. Also, has there been any snow on the Eastern USA yet? A storm is heading for NYC, but otherwise...anything?
I have more up my sleeve...........
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Old 16th December 2020, 01:56 AM   #17
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Last week, my wife and my daughter had a two-day argument about which of them had a pair of trousers that my daughter had ordered, to give to my wife to wrap up and give to my daughter for Christmas. My daughter clearly remembered my wife showing them to her, then taking them into our bedroom to wrap them, but hadn't seen them since. My wife equally clearly remembered my daughter showing them to her, then taking them into her bedroom to try them on. We spent two days searching the house before deciding that they were just lost, and maybe they'd turn up somewhere bizarre, and giving up.

The next day, the postman delivered them.

Memory is not a video recorder. We can convince ourselves we witnessed something that never happened, and memory does an amazing job of filling in the blanks, to the point where we can recollect the sights and sounds of a nonexistent event. If memory and external reality don't tally, quite often it's memory that's at fault.

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Old 16th December 2020, 02:26 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
I have more up my sleeve...........
Don't bother. Not even a good chew-toy.
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Old 16th December 2020, 02:27 AM   #19
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There's also the fact that generating your conscious mind is only the 'tip of the iceberg' of what your brain does. Most of its processing happens at the unconscious level, and sometimes that can result in your body doing things your conscious mind didn't direct, or expect, it to. This is why you can end up driving to work when you intended to drive to visit your mum; your conscious mind was distracted so your unconscious mind took over and just repeated what you most often do when you're sitting at the wheel of your car.

I imagine the OP doesn't usually have a santa hat lying around, so their unconscious mind is not pre-programmed, as it were, to know what they want to do with it. Picking it up when they leave the room and putting it down somewhere else might well be it doing what it can to help.
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Old 16th December 2020, 04:59 AM   #20
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Anyone not convinced that this one is extracting the urine?

Well, trying to...
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Old 16th December 2020, 05:17 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Anyone not convinced that this one is extracting the urine?

Well, trying to...
My policy is to assume that my fellow posters are sincere and honest. If that's an incorrect assumption I see it as their loss, not mine; I pity trolls, that they apparently have nothing better to do. Constructing arguments and marshalling facts is a worthwhile exercise in itself for my aging brain; if anyone else should find what I post of interest, that's a welcome bonus.
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Old 16th December 2020, 06:18 AM   #22
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Question

Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
I don't think our friend is being honest with us. As I said experienced skeptics keep time logs.



Texas is in the Central Standard Time and all the times he has been given are complete nonsense.
When I typed that, I was on vacation in Texas. That was around the time my uncle died and we were at his,funeral. Im back in Virginia now
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Old 16th December 2020, 06:19 AM   #23
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Question

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Eastern Time Zone....of Russia. Also, has there been any snow on the Eastern USA yet? A storm is heading for NYC, but otherwise...anything?
We were supposed to get 4-8 inches in VA but so far nothing
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Old 16th December 2020, 06:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Hmmmmmm the Texas snow report isn't showing any schools being closed due to snow.......

Yet Texas is in the Central Time Zone.....
Once again, sorry for the misunderstanding. I was in Texas when I posted that, at a funeral. I live in Charlottesville, Virginia, I got back here last week
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Old 16th December 2020, 06:22 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
My policy is to assume that my fellow posters are sincere and honest. If that's an incorrect assumption I see it as their loss, not mine; I pity trolls, that they apparently have nothing better to do. Constructing arguments and marshalling facts is a worthwhile exercise in itself for my aging brain; if anyone else should find what I post of interest, that's a welcome bonus.
I respect that, I do. I'm sorry if parts of this have some holes in it, I typed it last night when i was still a bit tired and still very afraid. I hope I can answer any other questions and we can figure this out
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Old 16th December 2020, 06:22 AM   #26
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If DTP is being sincere and honest, then the most likely explanation is carelessness, forgetfulness, and melodramatization. Either just teenager stuff or a real mental problem. Either way, the MA prohibits any real exploration of the possibility.

DTP, it sounds like you have a personal problem.
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Old 16th December 2020, 07:25 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
I really need an answer from a skeptic. This just happened about 20 minutes ago. I had a Santa hat that I left on the couch. It was there for maybe 2 hours, at least I know for a fact it was, and walked in and out of the living room several times between 8-10. But at around 10, i started watching a movie with my sister. I was on the couch the whole time, didn't move once. I am 99.999% sure the Santa hat was beside me. I have a memory of looking at it, in the dark with the TV on. The room was only dark during the movie, when I didn't move, and I haven't had the hat since the first when I put it in the closet by mistake and just never felt like getting it. Ok, but the big part is that I walked into my bedroom at around 11 when the movie was over (it was a TV special but same thing) I saw it sitting on my bed. Now, between 8-10 I walked into my room at least 5-10 times. I don't have a memory of moving it, and my sister nor my mom saw me do so, but it is possible I moved it and forgot about it, which I've doing a lot recently. Yet that doesn't explain why I remember seeing it. It's really, really, scaring me. I'm kinda freaking out right now, and I know I can't get a definitive answer, I just could really use some speculation about this

Edit: Now that I think about it, between 8-10, the last time that I know for a fact that I saw it, I only got up once, and I did go in that area, but I don't remember walking over far enough to grab rhe hat, as I wouldve had to walk over at least another 5-10 feet

Edit 2: Just had the Hat in my room, right next to a shirt on my bed. I was laying down. I got up once but I can't remember if it was before or after I had placed it here. It's not there. Found it in the same place I thought saw it the other time. I'm scared out of my mind. No one's playing a prank on me, I was with the whole family the whole time, except for my dad but he was in my parents room and never got up once. We only have two hats and one has a much bigger pom pom, so it's very easy to tell the difference between the two. My mom and sister remember seeing the Hat before the movie started so I couldn't have hallucinated the whole thing, it's still possible I hallucinated or misremebered one part, but it was there at one point in time. And for the second one I know for a fact I had it there because I even took a picture, as i was so scared what happened the first time might happen again and i wanted to be skeptical and sure I had it. Now, I don't know when I went in the other room, I just know that i walked to around that area of the couch , talked to my mom, and said told her I was going to bed. I don't remember, at least 100% if I saw the Hat when I went into my room, as my memory there is a bit foggy since I cut the lights off and i tend to forget when i can't see well. But look, I'm really, really scared right now. I don't think this is real anymore, I think this may be a simulation. I know I've had lots of these issues over the last couple months as a result of my depression and anxiety, but those times I had possible explanations, this time I have people who saw it with me and I can't wrap my head around either one
The first thing you need to ask is, "What's the simplest explanation?" That's most likely the answer.
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Old 16th December 2020, 08:27 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
The first thing you need to ask is, "What's the simplest explanation?" That's most likely the answer.
I guess I would say the simplest explanation is that I misremebered the Hat next to me, and for the second one when I got up I must've grabbed it by mistake and forgot about it, so I was scared because I was so sure it was in my room even though I had moved it. But for number 1, I have no clue. I did leave once, maybe twice between the time I last saw it and the time I saw it in my room. So it is possible I moved it, I just have no memory of it at all and i wouldve had to go out of my way by 5-10 feet to grab it. Although now that I do think about it some, both times the Hat was in a different spot then where I remembered, I did leave and did go to that area, so I guess it's most likely that I did move it. And then for the seeing it in on the couch during the movie, I guess since I have no other memory of seeing it with the lights off, it's most likely it's a false memory
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Old 16th December 2020, 09:58 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Skeptics, like detectives, log times, to methodically check basic facts first.

A 14 year old posting on a forum at half past midnight, on a week night, about a Christmas hat that may or may not have been moved by the three other people in your house, does raise a skeptic eyebrow.



Post the photo.
What is so odd about that? I used to wait for my parents' bedroom door to close, then instantly pop back out to the living room for some Moar Internet. And much of that was back in dial-up days, when the sound of me logging on was liable to get me busted.

These days, most kids have tablets and phones and stuff right in their rooms. I can scarcely imagine the temptation. I sometimes have trouble logging off now when I know I have to get up at 5:30 for work.

On top of all that, DebunkThisPls is anxious about something. It's not easy to sleep when you've got yourself worked up like that.
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Old 16th December 2020, 10:01 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
What is so odd about that? I used to wait for my parents' bedroom door to close, then instantly pop back out to the living room for some Moar Internet. And much of that was back in dial-up days, when the sound of me logging on was liable to get me busted.
Back in the early 70s I used a torch to carry on reading under the bedclothes. Times change; teenagers don't.

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Old 16th December 2020, 10:08 AM   #31
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To get back on topic - DebunkThisPls, you're doing it again. You've fixated on a single event, and you want someone to give you a specific and foolproof explanation for it. Even if someone was able to do that for you, your anxiety wouldn't actually go away. It would just switch to the next "strange" thing. Because what's going on here is NOT a plague of spooky events, but rather a mental fixation and chronic anxiety.

I know you probably don't want to hear it, and that it doesn't sound helpful right now, but it's true. None of this is worth shaking and sweating over. If that's really what's happening to you, I think it might be a good idea to talk to your parents about seeking help for your anxiety. This is like the one single area in all of life where I really know what I'm talking about.


EDIT - Now personally, I wasn't able to get any real help for my problem until I was older, because my parents are the type who don't really "believe" in therapy (especially for young people). How about you? Do you think your parents might be more understanding? Have you tried discussing any of this with them?
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Last edited by Butter!; 16th December 2020 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 16th December 2020, 10:33 AM   #32
theprestige
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Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole and show him how to use it... and he'll still come back the next day asking for another fish?

This relationship doesn't seem to be working out at all.
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Old 16th December 2020, 10:33 AM   #33
DebunkThisPls
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
To get back on topic - DebunkThisPls, you're doing it again. You've fixated on a single event, and you want someone to give you a specific and foolproof explanation for it. Even if someone was able to do that for you, your anxiety wouldn't actually go away. It would just switch to the next "strange" thing. Because what's going on here is NOT a plague of spooky events, but rather a mental fixation and chronic anxiety.

I know you probably don't want to hear it, and that it doesn't sound helpful right now, but it's true. None of this is worth shaking and sweating over. If that's really what's happening to you, I think it might be a good idea to talk to your parents about seeking help for your anxiety. This is like the one single area in all of life where I really know what I'm talking about.


EDIT - Now personally, I wasn't able to get any real help for my problem until I was older, because my parents are the type who don't really "believe" in therapy (especially for young people). How about you? Do you think your parents might be more understanding? Have you tried discussing any of this with them?
Ok well 1. I really appreciate your other comment here, that was very kind and understanding

2. I do think my parents will be understanding, I've talked somewhat about this sort of thing to them. And you are right about my anxiety going from thing to another. But I'm trying to get better at this and i know that eventually I'll get over it, just like I always have. It's just that this one is so much more advanced than any other experience I've had. I wouldve had to go out of my way to grab the Hat and put it in my room with no memory of me holding it, or no one seeing me do it. Then, I wouldve had to have a false memory or hallucination and trick my mind into thinking I actually saw the hat on the couch when it physically couldn't have been there. It's also wouldve had to have been a very advanced one as it felt and still does feel very real. Then for the second one I wouldve had to reach over on my bed and put it on the couch once again without acknowledging it and without anyone seeing it
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Old 16th December 2020, 10:34 AM   #34
DebunkThisPls
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole and show him how to use it... and he'll still come back the next day asking for another fish?

This relationship doesn't seem to be working out at all.
I totally understand this, I do. I've been pretty irrational with a lot of my fears on here, but this time I'm clueless and really scared. I really have no idea what it could be
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Old 16th December 2020, 10:35 AM   #35
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Back in the early 70s I used a torch to carry on reading under the bedclothes. Times change; teenagers don't.
"The teenagers of today are very careless with fire." - Plato, probably
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Old 16th December 2020, 10:56 AM   #36
Carrot Flower King
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
My policy is to assume that my fellow posters are sincere and honest. If that's an incorrect assumption I see it as their loss, not mine; I pity trolls, that they apparently have nothing better to do. Constructing arguments and marshalling facts is a worthwhile exercise in itself for my aging brain; if anyone else should find what I post of interest, that's a welcome bonus.
I start out assuming something like that, but patience is soon worn out (repetition does that to me).

And I'm not inclined to do the internet diagnosis which some are doing.

Note to self: do not reply to these threads.
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Old 16th December 2020, 11:02 AM   #37
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I remember a super-long thread about, believe it or not, a paranormal hat. Totally unrelated to the situation above. I also believe it was purged with the Great Database Debacle of the early 2000s. (The thread was 9/11 related.)

Let's not have another one like that.
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Old 16th December 2020, 11:16 AM   #38
Butter!
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It's not internet diagnosing to see someone heading down a road you recognize and offer them some advice.
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Old 16th December 2020, 11:22 AM   #39
theprestige
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Originally Posted by DebunkThisPls View Post
I totally understand this, I do. I've been pretty irrational with a lot of my fears on here, but this time I'm clueless and really scared. I really have no idea what it could be
You're clueless and scared this time because you reset after each incident. You have a scary experience, you get an explanation, you understand the explanation, you're no longer scared.

What you should do next is internalize that explanation so that you can refer to it the next time you have a similar experience. It's a general explanation that can be easily adapted and applied to a wide range of similar experiences. Most people tend to figure it out and internalize it on their own by the time they're teenagers.

But what you're doing instead is resetting back to where you were before you got the explanation. You believe it in the moment, but as soon as the moment passes, the explanation stops working for you. A few days later, you're back here again asking for the same explanation. The same exact explanation. And the worst part is, you show a clear awareness of the parts of the explanation. You just can't or won't put the parts together and keep them together for more than a few minutes.

If you're doing it intentionally, you're trolling. I'd tell you to stop it, but telling a troll to stop trolling would be pointless. If that's the case, then I can only hope that the attention you're getting here is filling whatever hole in your life, at least a little bit.

If you're doing it unintentionally, then you need professional help that this forum cannot possibly provide. Stop posting here and seek the professional help you desperately need.
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Old 16th December 2020, 11:29 AM   #40
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OP, you describe multiple trips back and forth to the kitchen and bedroom while you were watching a show. So many you couldn't even estimate closely. That sounds a lot like you were fidgety that evening. Fidgety people often pick things up absent-mindedly and move them around, completely unaware that they are doing so.

If you set the hat next to you, watched a two hour show, and then it vanished and you saw Vladamir Putin wearing it during a press conference, that would be cause for alarm. I don't see that your Santa hat being a few feet from where you last recalled it should be causing any angst.
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