[Ed] Ouija - Page 2

jj · 21st August 2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sundog

Forgive me, I'm slow today. How does this relate to whatever mechanism is in control (if any) of the Ouija board?

Your eyes see the board, yes?

Your mind knows how to spell a word, yes?

Your fingers are attached to your nervious system, yes?

There doesn't have to be any "intent".

jj · 21st August 2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

It might be easier, but it wouldn't be accurate.
I am stating that your original question contained the assumption that it did exist.
Do you have any proof?

More to the point I want to know how to test for it.

I can show SOME kind of linkage in audio tests, but I don't claim that there is any extraordinary intellectual thing going on.

BNiles · 21st August 2003, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jj

I think that's going a bit far when discussing a simple question of intersensory linkage, isn't it?

Yes it is, but this was taken a little out of context.

Sundog and I had slightly expanded our train of thought, and that's why I added the little disclaimer about stepping beyond the Ideomotor Effect.

BNiles · 21st August 2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jj

I can show SOME kind of linkage in audio tests, but I don't claim that there is any extraordinary intellectual thing going on.

This was my point as well. It's not some superpower, or extraordinary brain activity. It's a simple thought process that we don't pay much (if any) attention to. It doesn't matter what name you give it.

I know that names and labels can be a touchy point on these threads.

Sundog · 21st August 2003, 12:02 PM

(loooong sigh)

[very patient]

Okay. Allow me to rephrase.

Assumption: That the two people operating the Ouija board are honest.

Assumption: That a Ouija "session" is observed to produce sensible sentences.

(Obviously one can take issue with this assumption. I consider this so blindingly obvious that I didn't spell it out before.)

"Leaving out conscious fraud, what reasonable explanation exists for the apparent construction of meaningful sentences from two honest persons operating a Ouija board?"

Assuming, once again, that any such thing is observed.

[/vp]

jj · 21st August 2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BNiles

Yes it is, but this was taken a little out of context.

Sundog and I had slightly expanded our train of thought, and that's why I added the little disclaimer about stepping beyond the Ideomotor Effect.

Ok.

Sundog · 21st August 2003, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jj

Your eyes see the board, yes?

Your mind knows how to spell a word, yes?

Your fingers are attached to your nervious system, yes?

There doesn't have to be any "intent".

OK, I think I get you now. But what about the origination of the sentence itself? Or do you think it's a letter-by-letter thing?

tracer · 21st August 2003, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sundog
"Leaving out conscious fraud, what reasonable explanation exists for the apparent construction of meaningful sentences from two honest persons operating a Ouija board?"

Well ... one person could have an idea as to what he "wants" to see, and provide the ideomotor-based muscular cues, while the other person doesn't and just "goes along for the ride".

Jeff Corey · 21st August 2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sundog
Assumption: That the two people operating the Ouija board are honest.

Assumption: That a Ouija "session" is observed to produce sensible sentences.

(Obviously one can take issue with this assumption. I consider this so blindingly obvious that I didn't spell it out before.)[/vp]

That's why real scientists do double blind studies, so their "blindingly obvious assumptions" don't fool them.
And spare me the histrionics and silly little blinkeyes.
They don't add to the strenght of your discussion.

Explorer · 21st August 2003, 11:34 PM

Hexhammer said:

"If you got specific correct answers about things you yourself didn't know, someones moving the pointer. You won't get good specific answers if no one with their hands on the pointer knows them already. What I mean is if you ask:
"Who are we talking to?"
The pointer stops at "B"
You think maybe it's Billy.
Now the pointer finishes spelling out Billy.
I noticed this tendency of "mind reading" many times. I would think of something, and the board would spell it out. Yet it did not feel like I was trying to move the pointer."

Au contraire! In my session when I got a name beginning to be spelt out, I had M-I-C-H.. and immediately thought it was going to be MICHAEL. Suddenly, the glass moved rapidly to "NO" and respelt the name N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S. I was quite content with Michael. I thought afterwards that as the letter "N" was next to "M" and the glass was as big as a complete letter, this was an error on my part for reading the wrong letter (I was also jotting down the reponses as well as having one finger on the glass).

Hexxenhammer · 22nd August 2003, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer
Hexhammer said:

"If you got specific correct answers about things you yourself didn't know, someones moving the pointer. You won't get good specific answers if no one with their hands on the pointer knows them already. What I mean is if you ask:
"Who are we talking to?"
The pointer stops at "B"
You think maybe it's Billy.
Now the pointer finishes spelling out Billy.
I noticed this tendency of "mind reading" many times. I would think of something, and the board would spell it out. Yet it did not feel like I was trying to move the pointer."

Au contraire! In my session when I got a name beginning to be spelt out, I had M-I-C-H.. and immediately thought it was going to be MICHAEL. Suddenly, the glass moved rapidly to "NO" and respelt the name N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S. I was quite content with Michael. I thought afterwards that as the letter "N" was next to "M" and the glass was as big as a complete letter, this was an error on my part for reading the wrong letter (I was also jotting down the reponses as well as having one finger on the glass).

What do you think caused that? From what you have said I deduce fraud by your companion. If you were writing down what the board was saying, the person using it with you could have seen what you were writing and therefore moved the glass to make it look like the board was correcting you. This story is not convincing.

Sundog · 22nd August 2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

That's why real scientists do double blind studies, so their "blindingly obvious assumptions" don't fool them.
And spare me the histrionics and silly little blinkeyes.
They don't add to the strenght of your discussion.

No problem, if you'll spare me the Socratic inquiry bit and just spell out what you're thinking. I'm not interested enough to guess.

Explorer · 22nd August 2003, 12:56 PM

Hexhammer, you said:

"What do you think caused that? From what you have said I deduce fraud by your companion. If you were writing down what the board was saying, the person using it with you could have seen what you were writing and therefore moved the glass to make it look like the board was correcting you. This story is not convincing."

What do I think caused that? I don't really know. All I do know is that fraud is the least likely answer as far as my experiment was concerned. You don't have to believe me, as that is your right. I wasn't trying to prove anything to anyone, least alone anyone on this board at the time. Everything was at my instigation and under my control, and as the experimenter I chose my companions carefully and new what their capabilities and intentions were as far as that can go. Not a scientific experiment at all, but for me, nevertheless an interesting experience that hitherto has not been published for any public consumption gain or personal status.

Skeptical Greg · 22nd August 2003, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer
Hexxanhammer said:

"The answers to these questions are usually obvious and so it's easy for the users to answer them themselves without realizing it. Does that make sense?"

That just demostrates the limited scope of the participant's intellect. Just try doing ouija asking specific questions about local history with serious people. You will be amazed, unless of course you are an idiotometer.

Try blindfolding the participants. I'ts amazing what this does to their intellect.

Hexxenhammer · 22nd August 2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer
What do I think caused that? I don't really know. All I do know is that fraud is the least likely answer as far as my experiment was concerned.

Fraud is the LEAST likely answer? What's the MOST likely answer? Any answer other than fraud has a lot of baggage that I don't think you can carry.

Quote:

Everything was at my instigation and under my control, and as the experimenter I chose my companions carefully and new what their capabilities and intentions were as far as that can go.

You say you weren't under control of the pointer. Either some otherworldly force was, or your friend was. Which was it?

Explorer · 22nd August 2003, 11:35 PM

Hexhammer, you said:

"You say you weren't under control of the pointer. Either some otherworldly force was, or your friend was. Which was it?"

I meant that the experiment was under my control. As far as the pointer was concerned, that was under the joint control of the participants, which included myself, not some other force, unworldly or otherwise. Hope that helps.

Diogenes said:

"Try blindfolding the participants. I'ts amazing what this does to their intellect"

As has been said before on another thread on this subject, blindfolding the participants muck it up. This is only a problem for those who pre-judge the cause to be deliberate fraud in every case. It does not challenge the ideomotor effect, or other possible causes that derive from the inner workings of the human brain.

Regards

Explorer

Dude111 · 27th March 2020, 11:26 AM

A very interesting site..... I didnt know that many different style Boards were made!

I used to have

OUIJA
Parker Brothers
Deluxe Wooden Edition
Design on wood 1967

I thought that was the only board made!!

They are quite interesting these boards...........

wasapi · 27th March 2020, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hogan's Hero

The ouiji Museum.......

http://www.museumoftalkingboards.com/gal1.html

The Magic Marvel board looks liek it came form McDonalds

What an interesting site, I really enjoyed it.

I was given my first Ouija Board when I was a child. My mother was a big woo-believer. (She also gave me Tarot cards when I was about 10). I recall that I never believed there was anything paranormal. However, to keep Mom happy, she had me do regular tarot readings for her, and indulge her as a Ouija partner.

Trebuchet · 27th March 2020, 03:46 PM

Did the board predict the 16.5 year thread necromancy?

P.J. Denyer · 28th March 2020, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Leroy

What was the purpose of them? Were they originally made to contact the spirits? If this is so, I wonder how many sales they had. I wouldn't imagine that enough people would buy into that crap back then to make it profitable.

They became popular when Spiritualism was the new big religious movement sweeping the globe (although when first released they were a novelty) and seances, mentalism, table turning and such like were incredibly popular. They utterly rode the zietgeist.

Bikewer · 28th March 2020, 06:02 AM

The Wiki article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija
Indicates that similar items were used by the Chinese as long ago as 1100 AD. The Chinese were always big into divination and such.

Joe Random · 28th March 2020, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Did the board predict the 16.5 year thread necromancy?

Gilbert Syndrome · 28th March 2020, 07:57 AM

The Victorians loved them, it was a favourite pastime of theirs to generally try and contact the dead, see ghosts, and get up to all manner of spooky stuff. Nowadays we just send each other memes. Funny old world.

Dude111 · 28th March 2020, 10:25 AM

The spiritual world is fascinating..........

Alot of spirits need help.... If they have unfinished business for example..........

Gilbert Syndrome · 28th March 2020, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dude111

The spiritual world is fascinating..........

Alot of spirits need help.... If they have unfinished business for example..........

It was the people who needed the help, IMO.

People were looking for something beyond the stark, quite brutal reality of the times. Likewise, there were people then, as there are now, that were keen to capitalize on those needs and give the people what they want.

The Victorians were a rather gruesome lot, when it came to entertainment, but that was bugger-all in comparison to the way people were forced to live at the time, and it took some drastic events (the Whitechapel murders, being one such series of events) to make the people who were better off realize the relative squalor that most people were living in.

That so many bizarre pastimes, stories, and ways of looking at things came out of that particular era is not surprising in the least.

P.J. Denyer · 28th March 2020, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dude111

Alot of spirits need help.... If they have unfinished business for example..........

If the unfinished business is 'being drunk' then I agree. The spirit of Jim Beam just won't give me any peace.

P.J. Denyer · 28th March 2020, 11:49 AM

I think it was Michael Faraday who proved that the users were pushing the planchette by making a replacement planchette out of a stack of card, cut to shape and loosely sewn together so there was a little play in the thread.

Simplicity is often the mark of true genius.

Explorer · 4th May 2020, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

I think it was Michael Faraday who proved that the users were pushing the planchette by making a replacement planchette out of a stack of card, cut to shape and loosely sewn together so there was a little play in the thread.

Simplicity is often the mark of true genius.

No doubt at all, at least for me, that it is the participant/s moving the glass or pointer, or whatever.

What is fascinating is the unexpected answers you get from fairly straight forward questions, and how the effect seems to have a need to correct mistakes. I am sure that this derives from inside the heads of one or more of the participants, but how it expresses itself from allegedly subconscious random movement, into intelligible results through the often clumsy vehicle of a glass, is quite curious.

Cheetah · 4th May 2020, 04:25 AM

I don't believe I've ever even seen one, apart from on the web.

Mike! · 4th May 2020, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Random

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...f60ad8c7fd.jpg

Carlotta · 4th May 2020, 11:47 PM

My family had a ouija board when I was a kid. (Also, for that matter, a magic 8 ball). My mother, sister, and I sat down for a session with it. Sister asked, "what should I buy tomorrow?"
Slowly, the planchet spelled out --- "save your money." Sister and I just looked at our thrifty Scottish mother, who grew up during the depression.

P.J. Denyer · 5th May 2020, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Carlotta

My family had a ouija board when I was a kid. (Also, for that matter, a magic 8 ball). My mother, sister, and I sat down for a session with it. Sister asked, "what should I buy tomorrow?"
Slowly, the planchet spelled out --- "save your money." Sister and I just looked at our thrifty Scottish mother, who grew up during the depression.

Great anecdote, funny, illuminating and on topic. Nominated!

Carlotta · 5th May 2020, 10:40 AM

Thanks, P.J.!

Senex · 5th May 2020, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Carlotta

My family had a ouija board when I was a kid. (Also, for that matter, a magic 8 ball). My mother, sister, and I sat down for a session with it. Sister asked, "what should I buy tomorrow?"
Slowly, the planchet spelled out --- "save your money." Sister and I just looked at our thrifty Scottish mother, who grew up during the depression.

Back in my day the planchet usually spelled out, "Kiss Senex." "Give Senex what he wants."

The planchet used to be wise.

Captain_Swoop · 5th May 2020, 01:02 PM

We had one it would only spell out N I G H T and F E V E R

Turns out it was a Beegee board.

Crossbow · 5th May 2020, 01:53 PM

One time Issac Hayes and I asked a Ouija board, "Who's the black private dick that's a sex machine with all the chicks?"

And it spelled out "SHAFT"!

So we said, "Damn Right!"

P.J. Denyer · 6th May 2020, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

We had one it would only spell out N I G H T and F E V E R

Turns out it was a Beegee board.

Couldn't be, spirit boards contact the dead not those who are Stayin Alive, Stayin Alive!

Dude111 · 17th January 2021, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

The Wiki article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija
Indicates that similar items were used by the Chinese as long ago as 1100 AD. The Chinese were always big into divination and such.

Its good then the board continues to be used/agnoledged then

Thanx for the article!

Myriad · 18th January 2021, 06:43 AM

Wouldn't a Chinese Ouija board have to be the size of a conference table?

Apathia · 19th January 2021, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Myriad

Wouldn't a Chinese Ouija board have to be the size of a conference table?

Not the Japanese version, you can read about here:
https://creepypasta.fandom.com/wiki/Kokkuri-san

Works every time, with the proviso that some fox spirit is going to lie to you.

21st August 2003, 11:07 AM	#41
jj Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,381	Quote: Originally posted by Sundog Forgive me, I'm slow today. How does this relate to whatever mechanism is in control (if any) of the Ouija board? Your eyes see the board, yes? Your mind knows how to spell a word, yes? Your fingers are attached to your nervious system, yes? There doesn't have to be any "intent".
jj Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,381

21st August 2003, 11:08 AM	#42
jj Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,381	Quote: Originally posted by Jeff Corey It might be easier, but it wouldn't be accurate. I am stating that your original question contained the assumption that it did exist. Do you have any proof? More to the point I want to know how to test for it. I can show SOME kind of linkage in audio tests, but I don't claim that there is any extraordinary intellectual thing going on.
jj Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,381

21st August 2003, 11:11 AM	#43
BNiles Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 284	Quote: Originally posted by jj I think that's going a bit far when discussing a simple question of intersensory linkage, isn't it? Yes it is, but this was taken a little out of context. Sundog and I had slightly expanded our train of thought, and that's why I added the little disclaimer about stepping beyond the Ideomotor Effect.
BNiles Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 284

21st August 2003, 11:18 AM	#44
BNiles Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 284	Quote: Originally posted by jj I can show SOME kind of linkage in audio tests, but I don't claim that there is any extraordinary intellectual thing going on. This was my point as well. It's not some superpower, or extraordinary brain activity. It's a simple thought process that we don't pay much (if any) attention to. It doesn't matter what name you give it. I know that names and labels can be a touchy point on these threads.
BNiles Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 284

21st August 2003, 12:02 PM	#45
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,065	(loooong sigh) [very patient] Okay. Allow me to rephrase. Assumption: That the two people operating the Ouija board are honest. Assumption: That a Ouija "session" is observed to produce sensible sentences. (Obviously one can take issue with this assumption. I consider this so blindingly obvious that I didn't spell it out before.) "Leaving out conscious fraud, what reasonable explanation exists for the apparent construction of meaningful sentences from two honest persons operating a Ouija board?" Assuming, once again, that any such thing is observed. [/vp]
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,065

21st August 2003, 12:08 PM	#46
jj Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,381	Quote: Originally posted by BNiles Yes it is, but this was taken a little out of context. Sundog and I had slightly expanded our train of thought, and that's why I added the little disclaimer about stepping beyond the Ideomotor Effect. Ok.
jj Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,381

21st August 2003, 12:16 PM	#47
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,065	Quote: Originally posted by jj Your eyes see the board, yes? Your mind knows how to spell a word, yes? Your fingers are attached to your nervious system, yes? There doesn't have to be any "intent". OK, I think I get you now. But what about the origination of the sentence itself? Or do you think it's a letter-by-letter thing?
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,065

21st August 2003, 07:07 PM	#48
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,363	Quote: Originally posted by Sundog "Leaving out conscious fraud, what reasonable explanation exists for the apparent construction of meaningful sentences from two honest persons operating a Ouija board?" Well ... one person could have an idea as to what he "wants" to see, and provide the ideomotor-based muscular cues, while the other person doesn't and just "goes along for the ride".
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,363	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

21st August 2003, 07:42 PM	#49
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,714	Quote: Originally posted by Sundog Assumption: That the two people operating the Ouija board are honest. Assumption: That a Ouija "session" is observed to produce sensible sentences. (Obviously one can take issue with this assumption. I consider this so blindingly obvious that I didn't spell it out before.)[/vp] That's why real scientists do double blind studies, so their "blindingly obvious assumptions" don't fool them. And spare me the histrionics and silly little blinkeyes. They don't add to the strenght of your discussion.

21st August 2003, 11:34 PM	#50
Explorer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,168	Hexhammer said: "If you got specific correct answers about things you yourself didn't know, someones moving the pointer. You won't get good specific answers if no one with their hands on the pointer knows them already. What I mean is if you ask: "Who are we talking to?" The pointer stops at "B" You think maybe it's Billy. Now the pointer finishes spelling out Billy. I noticed this tendency of "mind reading" many times. I would think of something, and the board would spell it out. Yet it did not feel like I was trying to move the pointer." Au contraire! In my session when I got a name beginning to be spelt out, I had M-I-C-H.. and immediately thought it was going to be MICHAEL. Suddenly, the glass moved rapidly to "NO" and respelt the name N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S. I was quite content with Michael. I thought afterwards that as the letter "N" was next to "M" and the glass was as big as a complete letter, this was an error on my part for reading the wrong letter (I was also jotting down the reponses as well as having one finger on the glass).

22nd August 2003, 08:25 AM	#51
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,122	Quote: Originally posted by Explorer Hexhammer said: "If you got specific correct answers about things you yourself didn't know, someones moving the pointer. You won't get good specific answers if no one with their hands on the pointer knows them already. What I mean is if you ask: "Who are we talking to?" The pointer stops at "B" You think maybe it's Billy. Now the pointer finishes spelling out Billy. I noticed this tendency of "mind reading" many times. I would think of something, and the board would spell it out. Yet it did not feel like I was trying to move the pointer." Au contraire! In my session when I got a name beginning to be spelt out, I had M-I-C-H.. and immediately thought it was going to be MICHAEL. Suddenly, the glass moved rapidly to "NO" and respelt the name N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S. I was quite content with Michael. I thought afterwards that as the letter "N" was next to "M" and the glass was as big as a complete letter, this was an error on my part for reading the wrong letter (I was also jotting down the reponses as well as having one finger on the glass). What do you think caused that? From what you have said I deduce fraud by your companion. If you were writing down what the board was saying, the person using it with you could have seen what you were writing and therefore moved the glass to make it look like the board was correcting you. This story is not convincing.
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

22nd August 2003, 08:27 AM	#52
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,065	Quote: Originally posted by Jeff Corey That's why real scientists do double blind studies, so their "blindingly obvious assumptions" don't fool them. And spare me the histrionics and silly little blinkeyes. They don't add to the strenght of your discussion. No problem, if you'll spare me the Socratic inquiry bit and just spell out what you're thinking. I'm not interested enough to guess.
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,065

22nd August 2003, 12:56 PM	#53
Explorer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,168	Hexhammer, you said: "What do you think caused that? From what you have said I deduce fraud by your companion. If you were writing down what the board was saying, the person using it with you could have seen what you were writing and therefore moved the glass to make it look like the board was correcting you. This story is not convincing." What do I think caused that? I don't really know. All I do know is that fraud is the least likely answer as far as my experiment was concerned. You don't have to believe me, as that is your right. I wasn't trying to prove anything to anyone, least alone anyone on this board at the time. Everything was at my instigation and under my control, and as the experimenter I chose my companions carefully and new what their capabilities and intentions were as far as that can go. Not a scientific experiment at all, but for me, nevertheless an interesting experience that hitherto has not been published for any public consumption gain or personal status.

22nd August 2003, 01:10 PM	#54
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' . Posts: 16,941	Quote: Originally posted by Explorer Hexxanhammer said: "The answers to these questions are usually obvious and so it's easy for the users to answer them themselves without realizing it. Does that make sense?" That just demostrates the limited scope of the participant's intellect. Just try doing ouija asking specific questions about local history with serious people. You will be amazed, unless of course you are an idiotometer. Try blindfolding the participants. I'ts amazing what this does to their intellect.
	__________________ " The main problem I have with the idea of heaven, is the thought of spending eternity with most of the people who claim to be going there. "

22nd August 2003, 01:46 PM	#55
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,122	Quote: Originally posted by Explorer What do I think caused that? I don't really know. All I do know is that fraud is the least likely answer as far as my experiment was concerned. Fraud is the LEAST likely answer? What's the MOST likely answer? Any answer other than fraud has a lot of baggage that I don't think you can carry. Quote: Everything was at my instigation and under my control, and as the experimenter I chose my companions carefully and new what their capabilities and intentions were as far as that can go. You say you weren't under control of the pointer. Either some otherworldly force was, or your friend was. Which was it?
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

22nd August 2003, 11:35 PM	#56
Explorer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,168	Hexhammer, you said: "You say you weren't under control of the pointer. Either some otherworldly force was, or your friend was. Which was it?" I meant that the experiment was under my control. As far as the pointer was concerned, that was under the joint control of the participants, which included myself, not some other force, unworldly or otherwise. Hope that helps. Diogenes said: "Try blindfolding the participants. I'ts amazing what this does to their intellect" As has been said before on another thread on this subject, blindfolding the participants muck it up. This is only a problem for those who pre-judge the cause to be deliberate fraud in every case. It does not challenge the ideomotor effect, or other possible causes that derive from the inner workings of the human brain. Regards Explorer

27th March 2020, 11:26 AM	#57
Dude111 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 314	A very interesting site..... I didnt know that many different style Boards were made! I used to have OUIJA Parker Brothers Deluxe Wooden Edition Design on wood 1967 I thought that was the only board made!! They are quite interesting these boards...........
Dude111 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 314	Last edited by Dude111; 27th March 2020 at 11:29 AM.

27th March 2020, 02:10 PM	#58
wasapi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13,206	Originally Posted by Hogan's Hero The ouiji Museum....... http://www.museumoftalkingboards.com/gal1.html The Magic Marvel board looks liek it came form McDonalds What an interesting site, I really enjoyed it. I was given my first Ouija Board when I was a child. My mother was a big woo-believer. (She also gave me Tarot cards when I was about 10). I recall that I never believed there was anything paranormal. However, to keep Mom happy, she had me do regular tarot readings for her, and indulge her as a Ouija partner.
	__________________ Julia

27th March 2020, 03:46 PM	#59
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,059	Did the board predict the 16.5 year thread necromancy?
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

28th March 2020, 02:22 AM	#60
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,849	Originally Posted by Leroy What was the purpose of them? Were they originally made to contact the spirits? If this is so, I wonder how many sales they had. I wouldn't imagine that enough people would buy into that crap back then to make it profitable. They became popular when Spiritualism was the new big religious movement sweeping the globe (although when first released they were a novelty) and seances, mentalism, table turning and such like were incredibly popular. They utterly rode the zietgeist.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,849	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

28th March 2020, 06:02 AM	#61
Bikewer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 12,888	The Wiki article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija Indicates that similar items were used by the Chinese as long ago as 1100 AD. The Chinese were always big into divination and such.

28th March 2020, 07:35 AM	#62
Joe Random Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,796	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Did the board predict the 16.5 year thread necromancy?

28th March 2020, 07:57 AM	#63
Gilbert Syndrome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 7,279	The Victorians loved them, it was a favourite pastime of theirs to generally try and contact the dead, see ghosts, and get up to all manner of spooky stuff. Nowadays we just send each other memes. Funny old world.
	__________________ Generic proclamation of positivity: Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up. Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'

28th March 2020, 10:25 AM	#64
Dude111 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 314	The spiritual world is fascinating.......... Alot of spirits need help.... If they have unfinished business for example..........
Dude111 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 314

28th March 2020, 10:40 AM	#65
Gilbert Syndrome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 7,279	Originally Posted by Dude111 The spiritual world is fascinating.......... Alot of spirits need help.... If they have unfinished business for example.......... It was the people who needed the help, IMO. People were looking for something beyond the stark, quite brutal reality of the times. Likewise, there were people then, as there are now, that were keen to capitalize on those needs and give the people what they want. The Victorians were a rather gruesome lot, when it came to entertainment, but that was bugger-all in comparison to the way people were forced to live at the time, and it took some drastic events (the Whitechapel murders, being one such series of events) to make the people who were better off realize the relative squalor that most people were living in. That so many bizarre pastimes, stories, and ways of looking at things came out of that particular era is not surprising in the least.
	__________________ Generic proclamation of positivity: Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up. Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'

28th March 2020, 11:47 AM	#66
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,849	Originally Posted by Dude111 Alot of spirits need help.... If they have unfinished business for example.......... If the unfinished business is 'being drunk' then I agree. The spirit of Jim Beam just won't give me any peace.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,849	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

28th March 2020, 11:49 AM	#67
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,849	I think it was Michael Faraday who proved that the users were pushing the planchette by making a replacement planchette out of a stack of card, cut to shape and loosely sewn together so there was a little play in the thread. Simplicity is often the mark of true genius.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,849	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

4th May 2020, 03:53 AM	#68
Explorer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,168	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer I think it was Michael Faraday who proved that the users were pushing the planchette by making a replacement planchette out of a stack of card, cut to shape and loosely sewn together so there was a little play in the thread. Simplicity is often the mark of true genius. No doubt at all, at least for me, that it is the participant/s moving the glass or pointer, or whatever. What is fascinating is the unexpected answers you get from fairly straight forward questions, and how the effect seems to have a need to correct mistakes. I am sure that this derives from inside the heads of one or more of the participants, but how it expresses itself from allegedly subconscious random movement, into intelligible results through the often clumsy vehicle of a glass, is quite curious.

4th May 2020, 04:25 AM	#69
Cheetah Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: South Africa Posts: 2,690	I don't believe I've ever even seen one, apart from on the web.
	__________________ "... when you dig my grave, could you make it shallow so that I can feel the rain" - DMB

4th May 2020, 04:25 PM	#70
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 40,257	Originally Posted by Joe Random http://www.internationalskeptics.com...f60ad8c7fd.jpg
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

4th May 2020, 11:47 PM	#71
Carlotta Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 451	My family had a ouija board when I was a kid. (Also, for that matter, a magic 8 ball). My mother, sister, and I sat down for a session with it. Sister asked, "what should I buy tomorrow?" Slowly, the planchet spelled out --- "save your money." Sister and I just looked at our thrifty Scottish mother, who grew up during the depression.

5th May 2020, 03:11 AM	#72
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,849	Originally Posted by Carlotta My family had a ouija board when I was a kid. (Also, for that matter, a magic 8 ball). My mother, sister, and I sat down for a session with it. Sister asked, "what should I buy tomorrow?" Slowly, the planchet spelled out --- "save your money." Sister and I just looked at our thrifty Scottish mother, who grew up during the depression. Great anecdote, funny, illuminating and on topic. Nominated!
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,849	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

5th May 2020, 10:40 AM	#73
Carlotta Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 451	Thanks, P.J.!

5th May 2020, 12:37 PM	#74
Senex Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Connecticut School for Rumpology. Posts: 5,983	Originally Posted by Carlotta My family had a ouija board when I was a kid. (Also, for that matter, a magic 8 ball). My mother, sister, and I sat down for a session with it. Sister asked, "what should I buy tomorrow?" Slowly, the planchet spelled out --- "save your money." Sister and I just looked at our thrifty Scottish mother, who grew up during the depression. Back in my day the planchet usually spelled out, "Kiss Senex." "Give Senex what he wants." The planchet used to be wise.

5th May 2020, 01:02 PM	#75
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,912	We had one it would only spell out N I G H T and F E V E R Turns out it was a Beegee board.