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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 23rd September 2017, 02:21 PM   #2161
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Professor Novelli is one of Italy's leading geneticist scientists and he fully backs Stefanoni. As does Prof Torrecelli.

Please shut the door on your way out.
Sorry. In fact no one is sorrier than me. Trust me on this one.

I was looking for someone who hadn't admitted to a court that Stefanoni had not followed international protocols with regard to multiple amplifications.

Novelli had just admitted that Stefanoni's results were useless. That's hardly a sign he'd supported her work!

If you give me one, just one I can guarantee I won't let the door hit me on the way out......
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Old 23rd September 2017, 02:25 PM   #2162
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Give it up and learn to read. It doesn't say what you keep saying it does. That's why they were acquitted.
It says clearly that even if what the prosecution had claimed was true, then all that proved was that they'd been in the cottage in another place.....

...... at a later time. Which no one disputes.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 02:47 PM   #2163
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PGP posters are yet again going on about Raffale lying about using a computer in the night without mentioning it. I have asked this question before. When did Raffale he slept throughout the night without mentioning using his computer. Was this in the statements prior to the police prior to the interrogation, during the interrogations or in statements to the court? Is there a link to any documents which proves this? As the post below shows PGP have made false accusations that Amanda and Raffaele have lied. Is the accusation Raffaele lied about using the computer another false accusation.
How is using playing music on a computer in Raffaele’s apartment and not mentioning incriminating? To use this as evidence of guilt smacks of desperation. If there was a mountain of solid evidence and a slam dunk case, why do PGP have to resort to using something completely innocent such as playing music and not mentioning it as evidence?

As can be seen from my post below PGP have lied and supported liars on a massive scale.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11997763

There are numerous instances when Vixen has used falsehoods in her posts and many of her post make malicious accusations against Hellman, C&V and Hellman and Amanda and Raffaele. PGP have no problem with corrupt prosecutors feeding false information to the media, committing perjury and lying in court. PGP had no problem when Amanda was lied to she had HIV. PGP had no problem with witnesses such as Quintavelle and Curalto lying and the testimony of blatant liars being used as evidence to convict Amanda and Raffaele. The PGP had no problem when the Hellman acquittal was reversed on the basis of a motivation report riddled with falsehoods by Chieffi and Amanda and Raffaele being convicted on another motivation riddled with falsehoods produced by Nencini. PGP had no problem when the media and book authors spread lies about Amanda and Raffaele as detailed below.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/

PGP had no problem with the British girls lying about Amanda in court as detailed below

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/the-british-girls/

PGP are outraged that Raffaele didn’t mention using a computer and regard this as a horrific lie when they have told and defended those who have told far worse lies. A perfect example of grotesque hypocrisy by PGP. More proof for my theory that PGP are trying deliberately to be as hypocritical as possible when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 02:50 PM   #2164
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Originally Posted by NotEvenWrong View Post
You randomly make up crap about all of independent forensic scientists being paid off by the Amanda Knox PR campaign, and that's why they've all come to the same conclusion that Knox and Sollecito are innocent.

Given that, why are the only two experts you cite that support Stefanoni (at all; and "support" is a bit of a stretch given that neither of them said she ran LCN analysis correctly, which is what we're asking about) actual paid prosecution experts?
It bothers me not that the experts were paid. I would hope they had been.

What bothers me is that even the prosecution experts gave us (way up in the cheap seats) reason to doubt Stefanoni's skills, not to mention her results.

Before hitting the road I'm going to have another look at the experts' testimony. Unless something is on TV.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 03:50 PM   #2165
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Originally Posted by NotEvenWrong View Post
You randomly make up crap about all of independent forensic scientists being paid off by the Amanda Knox PR campaign, and that's why they've all come to the same conclusion that Knox and Sollecito are innocent.

Given that, why are the only two experts you cite that support Stefanoni (at all; and "support" is a bit of a stretch given that neither of them said she ran LCN analysis correctly, which is what we're asking about) actual paid prosecution experts?
Professor Francesca Torricelli was the Kercher family DNA-expert, probably hired/engaged by Francesco Maresca, the famiy lawyer.

Prof Torricelli's principle contribution to the Hellmann trial, was testifying that (in her opinion) the lab Conti & Vecchiotti used: "the machinery they used during their investigation could check extremely low quantities of DNA", and thus the Hellmann court should have asked C&V to test 36I, rather than let C&V make the de facto judicial decision not to have it tested.

(Be that as it may, when Sample 36I was tested later at the Nencini trial in 2013, it added nothing to the case, and nothing that pointed to guilt of the defendants.)

And far from Prof. Torricelli giving a ringing endorsement of Stefanoni's work, Torricelli had joined in criticizing Stefanoni for the way the bathroom had been swabbed for DNA. Indeed, that method also found traces of a third female-DNA sample, which called into question that finding Knox/Kercher DNA in the same collection-sample would have had anything to do with the murder:
Originally Posted by Fred Davies, Criminal Justice & Law Weekly April 2014
Gathering samples by repeated rubbing from edge down to the drain and vice versa, on both sides of the swab, contrary to what Dr Stefanoni claimed, was the least advisable method for obtaining a credible result. Bearing in mind both women used the sanitary fittings in that bathroom, by using a method which gathered up the entire DNA, it was not possible to date a trace and to establish which trace had been deposited before another. Consequently, it appeared to Hellmann entirely irrelevant, that Knox’s DNA was found mixed with the victim’s DNA on the sanitary fittings. Put another way, the evidence gathered was not probative of Knox’s partnership in the attack upon Meredith Kercher.

The result from the genetic samples on the box of cotton buds was considered even more suspect. Dr Stefanoni opined that a third person, of the female sex, may have been present because the alleles were very uniform in height and one could envisage pairings other than those attributed to Knox and Kercher. The result suggested the overlap of separate traces at different times, the box containing the buds having passed through several hands, rather than having contact only with the alleged murderer. This opinion was shared by Dr Torricelli, a consultant for the civil party, Meredith Kercher’s family (Massei, p.243.).
So, once again, can Vixen find ONE forensic-DNA expert who supports Stefanoni's work?

Withheld Data files

On another matter - it was not until Sep 5, 2011, that the records that had been withheld from Conti&Vecchiotti "had been found by the prosecution". Maneula Comodi then asked that day that they be admitted into evidence, but the defence (successfully) objected that they should not be admitted at this late date, "because they were not in the files originally given to the new experts (cf. C&V)." Comodi countered by saying that those records could have been given to C&V, "if they'd only asked for them."

But because they'd not been part of the original disclosure package, Hellmann disallowed them at this late date.
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Last edited by Bill Williams; 23rd September 2017 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:06 PM   #2166
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It bothers me not that the experts were paid. I would hope they had been.

What bothers me is that even the prosecution experts gave us (way up in the cheap seats) reason to doubt Stefanoni's skills, not to mention her results.

Before hitting the road I'm going to have another look at the experts' testimony. Unless something is on TV.
Everyone was paid including Stefanoni. Prosecution experts. Pietro Boemia and Dr. Lorenzo Rinaldi, a 35 year old physicist who worked for the Polizia Scientifica in Rome. However, for this case, they were hired guns working out of Prosecutor Mignini’s office and billing for their work.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:19 PM   #2167
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
How was it not?
Knifing a young woman in the neck and cutting off her bra...? Must have been an awful experience for him.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:29 PM   #2168
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Knifing a young woman in the neck and cutting off her bra...? Must have been an awful experience for him.
Do you know what libel is?
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:29 PM   #2169
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Knifing a young woman in the neck and cutting off her bra...? Must have been an awful experience for him.
You're delusional. He was ACQUITTED. Wake up and smell that coffee you're always blathering about.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:37 PM   #2170
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Originally Posted by Welshman View Post
PGP posters are yet again going on about Raffale lying about using a computer in the night without mentioning it. I have asked this question before. When did Raffale he slept throughout the night without mentioning using his computer. Was this in the statements prior to the police prior to the interrogation, during the interrogations or in statements to the court? Is there a link to any documents which proves this? As the post below shows PGP have made false accusations that Amanda and Raffaele have lied. Is the accusation Raffaele lied about using the computer another false accusation.
How is using playing music on a computer in Raffaele’s apartment and not mentioning incriminating? To use this as evidence of guilt smacks of desperation. If there was a mountain of solid evidence and a slam dunk case, why do PGP have to resort to using something completely innocent such as playing music and not mentioning it as evidence?

As can be seen from my post below PGP have lied and supported liars on a massive scale.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11997763

There are numerous instances when Vixen has used falsehoods in her posts and many of her post make malicious accusations against Hellman, C&V and Hellman and Amanda and Raffaele. PGP have no problem with corrupt prosecutors feeding false information to the media, committing perjury and lying in court. PGP had no problem when Amanda was lied to she had HIV. PGP had no problem with witnesses such as Quintavelle and Curalto lying and the testimony of blatant liars being used as evidence to convict Amanda and Raffaele. The PGP had no problem when the Hellman acquittal was reversed on the basis of a motivation report riddled with falsehoods by Chieffi and Amanda and Raffaele being convicted on another motivation riddled with falsehoods produced by Nencini. PGP had no problem when the media and book authors spread lies about Amanda and Raffaele as detailed below.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/

PGP had no problem with the British girls lying about Amanda in court as detailed below

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/the-british-girls/

PGP are outraged that Raffaele didn’t mention using a computer and regard this as a horrific lie when they have told and defended those who have told far worse lies. A perfect example of grotesque hypocrisy by PGP. More proof for my theory that PGP are trying deliberately to be as hypocritical as possible when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying.

Computer expert reports from hearings of 14th March, 2009 and December 2010:

2009-03-13-Slides-Postal-Police-computer-Sollecito-Macbook.pdf
2009-03-13-Slides-Postal-Police-computer-Sollecito-Macbook-Fastweb-logs.pdf

IT Expert Testimony #1 : Claudio Trifici

IT Expert Testomony #2 Marco Trotta

HIs alibi was that he was on his computer all evening, yet this is a false alibi as there is no activity at all after the autodownload at 21:26 until 05:32 next morning.

As the prosecution say, a deliberately false alibi is evidence in itself.

Do get up to speed.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:41 PM   #2171
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Do you know what libel is?
I am quoting expert witnesses from official court documents in the public domain and thus what they say is legally privileged.

There is no doubt at all that that is Raff's DNA on the bra clasp and Amanda confirmed to police she knew Raff carried a knife.

Quote from Prosecutor Barrister Crini at the Florence Appeal Court 2013:

Quote:
The theme, therefore, legally speaking, is process-translated, is the theme of alibi, which is the first of the themes I want to address. Why do I call it the alibi theme? Because it is certainly a fact of having ... What is the alibi? I am justified by claiming that I have found myself ... with respect to a fact that I am charged, I justify claiming that I have been at that moment from another side, that is, I indicate the different place not as such, not so - as I say - a priori, or let's say it is; No, I can point you out to justify it with respect to the reasoning of the charge that is being envisaged for my own sake, or that has already been put forward. It is a kind of defensive argument that is used by saying no that "I did not commit the offense" but that "I was at the other side when someone obviously committed that offense". So since the prospect of the alibi is precisely to defend itself against a crime, this is more than sufficient because the Supreme Court believes that the alibi should have its contentious content.

<snip>

So the alibi is a clue. Clue to what? Of course, in the perspective of the jurisprudence, there is certainly a clue as to the offender committment. Since you know that you are defending yourself from that crime when you say "I was in that house and not in another", or "I was in Genoa and not in Turin," certainly the clue goes to the offense you you know that you are accused or that you can be accused, anyway.


<snip>

[the defence] also motivated the point of technical elaboration on that element that was supposed to serve to corroborate the alibi, that is, the computer of the accused Sollecito, h ...[...] And so we have to say something, we need to say something by starting the reasoning, starting the argument from this theme that I just touched, that is, to say this request to once again restart the computer, to evaluate certain aspects, looked at the fact that the findings on this tool were particularly thorough because it was the element that at one point the defendant laid the foundation for his alibi.

...[...]... The theme, let's say, was postponed after a few days, in the sense that there are some declarations I think of November 05, Declarations of November 05, at 22:40, in which the defendant reports to us, tells the investigating bodies that the evening of the fact he has put some time on the computer, then adds that color data, "I made a spliff, "and - I mean - I just emphasize why then maybe the theme deserves to be resumed later. And then talking in the singular. And this fact of talking at that moment in the singular is a significant fact because then it reverberates, in terms that the court knows very well, about the nightmare of Knox, Knox Amanda, who, in two minutes, one by one at night, '''[...]..., of the maximum pressure the person had been placed on, then it is a discourse that is also reiterated the following morning, in subsequent declarations, and it is in that motive that, let's say, there are those indications that then lead to the discovery of a defamatory Lumumba, who would be a color person in some fashioned in this affair.

...[...]... And so, here is the time when this explanation, this justification, turns out for the first time. "I have nothing to do with the way of murder, I have nothing to do with Via Pergola, because I was in Via Garibaldi "- the singular -" in front of my computer ", with this lightweight drug pastime. This is the posed figure. This is of course the focus and the deepening.

...[...]... Ambrosio. D'Ambrosio's expertise is the expertise - we say so - that in a sort we say a step further than a reason we will do next, it offers the argument that this computer, and this time I use the singular, because the only computer of which with respect to Solution there is reason to reason is that, for the good reason that ASUS,

...[...]...It is important because this insight made by consultant D'Ambrosio, where refutation also becomes clear as the Naruto interaction of 21:26
In short Crini makes clear neither the forensic IT police nor Raff's own ISP provider could find any activity by him after 21:10.

In his statement to the police 6 Nov 2007, Raff said:

Quote:
QA Around 16:00 Meredith left in a hurry without saying where she was going. Amanda and I stayed home until about 17:30-18:00.
QA We left the house, we went into town, but I don’t remember what we did.
QA We stayed there from 18:00 until 20:30/21:00. At 21:00 I went home alone because Amanda told me that she was going to go to the pub Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends.
QA At this point we said goodbye and I headed home while she headed towards the center.
QA I went home alone, sat at the computer and rolled myself a spliff. Surely I had dinner but I don’t remember what I ate. Around 23:00 my father called at my home number 075.9660789. During that time I remember Amanda had not come back yet.
QA I browsed at my computer for another two hours after my father’s phone call and only stopped when Amanda came back presumably around 1:00.
Raff had a demonstrably fake alibi, which he has never retracted, explained, nor modified to this day.

Your claim that this is a lie is contemptible and childish.
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Last edited by Vixen; 23rd September 2017 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:43 PM   #2172
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You're delusional. He was ACQUITTED. Wake up and smell that coffee you're always blathering about.
Don't let PR guys pull the wool over your eyes.

Smell the cofveve.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:48 PM   #2173
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Don't let PR guys pull the wool over your eyes.

Smell the cofveve.
The FACTS convinced me. I know you're unfamiliar with the concept.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:51 PM   #2174
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am quoting expert witnesses from official court documents in the public domain and thus what they say is legally privileged.

There is no doubt at all that that is Raff's DNA on the bra clasp and Amanda confirmed to police she knew Raff carried a knife.
No, you didn't quote anything. And the court documents said that didn't happen.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 05:16 PM   #2175
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am quoting expert witnesses from official court documents in the public domain and thus what they say is legally privileged.
The privilege does not extend to you.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 05:30 PM   #2176
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
The privilege does not extend to you.
How do you work that out?

Marasca decreed that Amanda and Raff were at the scene of the murder when Mez was killed.

Therefore he was not sitting at his computer alone smoking a spliff.

As the recent Florence Court says, 10 Feb 2017, if he was not at the cottage then he had a duty to inform police in what condition Knox arrived home.

We can infer given his DNA on the bra clasp - and tertiary transfer was officially ruled out by the merits courts - the reason he cannot is because he was an equal participant, as witness his footprints on the bathmat and in the hall way.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 05:40 PM   #2177
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How do you work that out?
Because you didn't offer you libel as part of a quote.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Marasca decreed that Amanda and Raff were at the scene of the murder when Mez was killed.
They didn't. They said that even if what the prosecution had said was true, all it proved was that they'd been there after the crime and in another part of the house.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Therefore he was not sitting at his computer alone smoking a spliff.
Read his book.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As the recent Florence Court says, 10 Feb 2017, if he was not at the cottage then he had a duty to inform police in what condition Knox arrived home.
Who cares what that court had said. It was not a fact finding court about the murder, it was a compensation court.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
We Vixen can infer given his DNA on the bra clasp - and tertiary transfer was officially ruled out by the merits courts - the reason he cannot is because he was an equal participant, as witness his footprints on the bathmat and in the hall way.
His foottrack was not on the mat. His foottrack was not in the hall (and so what if it was?) Tertiary transfer was not ruled out by the merits courts. The bra clasp was not collected properly:


None of this protects YOU from libel.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 06:03 PM   #2178
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Ah, but they did. Go and revisit it.
I said I read it and nothing was mentioned about her journals. So, here's a shot in the dark...why don't you provide a citation to this alleged exchange? You know...actually provide some evidence of this claim? It's always good to experience new things.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 06:22 PM   #2179
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
He claimed not to know about the grunge metal at 5:32 am the night after the murder.

I guess Marriott left this bit off your crib sheets.
Did RS ever deny listening to music that morning? Or did he just not mention it, perhaps thinking it was inconsequential since it had nothing to do with his whereabouts? Hell, if asked by the police what time I got up that morning, I doubt I'd mention the 4 AM trip to the toilet.

I'll ask you again: Do you really believe that, 2.5 years after the definitive judgment, a now DEFUNCT PR company is paying people to "reinvent" the reputation of an EX-client? Really?

And please stop with the "Marriott crib sheet" nonsense. It got old a long time ago as most inanities do after being heard several times.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 06:27 PM   #2180
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am quoting expert witnesses from official court documents in the public domain and thus what they say is legally privileged.

There is no doubt at all that that is Raff's DNA on the bra clasp and Amanda confirmed to police she knew Raff carried a knife.

Quote from Prosecutor Barrister Crini at the Florence Appeal Court 2013:



In short Crini makes clear neither the forensic IT police nor Raff's own ISP provider could find any activity by him after 21:10.

In his statement to the police 6 Nov 2007, Raff said:



Raff had a demonstrably fake alibi, which he has never retracted, explained, nor modified to this day.

Your claim that this is a lie is contemptible and childish.
Ah,yes....the statements he made in an unrecorded and lawyerless interrogation. But more importantly, statements that included events that happened the night before (Halloween) that were corroborated by others. But somehow, that just seems to go right past you.

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Old 23rd September 2017, 06:37 PM   #2181
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How do you work that out?

Marasca decreed that Amanda and Raff were at the scene of the murder when Mez was killed.

Therefore he was not sitting at his computer alone smoking a spliff.

As the recent Florence Court says, 10 Feb 2017, if he was not at the cottage then he had a duty to inform police in what condition Knox arrived home.

We can infer given his DNA on the bra clasp - and tertiary transfer was officially ruled out by the merits courts - the reason he cannot is because he was an equal participant, as witness his footprints on the bathmat and in the hall way.
Um..no, Marasca did not.

Both convicting courts were overturned. It doesn't matter what they "found".
If tertiary, or even secondary, transfer was "ruled out" then explain how the DNA of at least two other men were found on that bra hook. Did they also touch MK's bra?
If tertiary, or secondary, transfer was ruled out, then why did Marasca find that NO evidence was found of either RS or AK in MK's bedroom? He obviously ruled on the side of C&V's findings and not Stefanoni's.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 07:53 PM   #2182
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Um..no, Marasca did not.

Both convicting courts were overturned. It doesn't matter what they "found".
If tertiary, or even secondary, transfer was "ruled out" then explain how the DNA of at least two other men were found on that bra hook. Did they also touch MK's bra?
If tertiary, or secondary, transfer was ruled out, then why did Marasca find that NO evidence was found of either RS or AK in MK's bedroom? He obviously ruled on the side of C&V's findings and not Stefanoni's.
Vixen always ignores those words 'even if' as if they don't matter. You have to be a moron not to conclude that what follows the words 'even if' is a hypothetical.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 08:27 PM   #2183
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Vixen always ignores those words 'even if' as if they don't matter. You have to be a moron not to conclude that what follows the words 'even if' is a hypothetical.
It is clear that not only has Vixen not read the words "even if", in the Marasca-Bruno report.....

Vixen has not read the report at all.

Early in Section 6, M/B discuss the importance of establishing time-of-death. M/B then criticized the Nencini court for wrongly saying that establishing TOD was not necessary or important.

So M/B cut into the Nencini court "reasoning" thusly:
Quote:
6.2. Another judicial error is to be found in the finding (by the Nencini court) that the establishment of Kercher’s exact time of death was irrelevant, in the belief that the approximate
timing offered by the expert investigations was sufficient, for all that this may have been correct at the trial stage.

The Sollecito defence is right to object in pointing out the need for investigation of this point and all its implications, especially in a circumstantial case like this one.
Not only that, but the exact determination of Kercher’s time of death is an unavoidable factual prerequisite for the verification of the defendant’s alibi, in the form
of an inquiry aimed at ascertaining the possibility of his alleged presence in the house on via della Pergola at the time of the murder. It is for this reason that an
appropriate expert review was requested.

Now, on this point too one must register a deplorable carelessness in the preliminary investigation phase.......
Far from putting them in the cottage at the time of the murder, M/B lays it out - the investigation was so "careless" (particularly regarding the determination of TOD) that that made it impossible to tell, really, when he'd been there - and he admits to have been there late morning on Nov 2.

But M/B saves the best for last. Both "even if" and "alleged" come to the fore in all of Section 9, when M/B sets it up. Even if the prosecution and/or investigation had not been amnesiac or careless.....
Quote:
9.3 During the analysis of the aforementioned elements of evidence, it is certainly useful to remember that, taking for granted that the murder occurred in via della Pergola, the alleged presence at the house of the defendants cannot, in itself, be considered as proof of guilt.
There it is. The M/B report says what Vixen wants it to say if one doesn't read the whole thing, and, indeed, doesn't read all the words they wrote.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 09:02 PM   #2184
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It is clear that not only has Vixen not read the words "even if", in the Marasca-Bruno report.....

Vixen has not read the report at all.

Early in Section 6, M/B discuss the importance of establishing time-of-death. M/B then criticized the Nencini court for wrongly saying that establishing TOD was not necessary or important.

So M/B cut into the Nencini court "reasoning" thusly:
Far from putting them in the cottage at the time of the murder, M/B lays it out - the investigation was so "careless" (particularly regarding the determination of TOD) that that made it impossible to tell, really, when he'd been there - and he admits to have been there late morning on Nov 2.

But M/B saves the best for last. Both "even if" and "alleged" come to the fore in all of Section 9, when M/B sets it up. Even if the prosecution and/or investigation had not been amnesiac or careless.....
There it is. The M/B report says what Vixen wants it to say if one doesn't read the whole thing, and, indeed, doesn't read all the words they wrote.
Reading comprehension problems or willful blindness? I know which one I think it is.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 09:27 PM   #2185
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
OMG! You're right! How could I have missed this incontrovertible evidence? Good work, Whoanellie.

I remember reading somewhere that Nirvana's next album was going to be titled "Bathmat" but Cobain died before it could be made. Coincidence? I think not!
Cobain is dead? What's Raf's alibi? What about acbytesla? Get Mignini on the case!
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Old 23rd September 2017, 10:03 PM   #2186
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Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
Cobain is dead? What's Raf's alibi? What about acbytesla? Get Mignini on the case!
It had to be Courtney Love.
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Old 24th September 2017, 08:39 AM   #2187
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It's a problem.

There are, to put it bluntly, deranged people clinging to a guilty verdict. These sicko types won't go away, guys. They have invested their emotional sanity in a theme and it's spinning their heads.

If that vile creature, Guede, had it within his revolting conscience to come clean, these guilter sickoes would claim he was lying.

...but keep fighting guys. If it wasn't for the fact that two wholly and absolutely innocent people were being attacked it would be funny.

I feel for both AK and RS - they deserve their lives without this contemptible lot.

S'pose I have transgressed the rules...
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:01 AM   #2188
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Originally Posted by Mike1711 View Post
It's a problem.

There are, to put it bluntly, deranged people clinging to a guilty verdict. These sicko types won't go away, guys. They have invested their emotional sanity in a theme and it's spinning their heads.

If that vile creature, Guede, had it within his revolting conscience to come clean, these guilter sickoes would claim he was lying.

...but keep fighting guys. If it wasn't for the fact that two wholly and absolutely innocent people were being attacked it would be funny.

I feel for both AK and RS - they deserve their lives without this contemptible lot.

S'pose I have transgressed the rules...
No, you didn't break the rules. You are spot on.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:15 AM   #2189
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Originally Posted by Mike1711 View Post
It's a problem.

There are, to put it bluntly, deranged people clinging to a guilty verdict. These sicko types won't go away, guys. They have invested their emotional sanity in a theme and it's spinning their heads.

If that vile creature, Guede, had it within his revolting conscience to come clean, these guilter sickoes would claim he was lying.

...but keep fighting guys. If it wasn't for the fact that two wholly and absolutely innocent people were being attacked it would be funny.

I feel for both AK and RS - they deserve their lives without this contemptible lot.

S'pose I have transgressed the rules...
It's a sad day when speaking the truth is seen as a transgression.

The principals of this case have mostly gotten on with their lives, with occasional run-ins with people, well-meaning or otherwise, who throw it back at them. Occasionally either of them give formal presentations to others who've been wrongfully convicted/prosecuted, including to bar associations and law schools. Both RS and AK are now waiting on the ECHR to decide on matters somewhat distant from the main, original allegations of murder and mayhem.

But it is us who cannot seem to move on, in this far-off corner of the internet.

Me - I am hoping that some of the pre-March 2015 guilters who have stopped posting anywhere (ones that I'd had PM's with) would send a PM and we can have one last go at it.

Truly - all it would take for me to be gone would be if Vixen would finally concede that there are no forensic-DNA experts anywhere in Italy or in the rest of the world who would stand by Stefanoni's work. (Vixen would also have to keep to that concession for a year, including correcting others who made the same mistake.)

No, Novelli does not count. He'd verified at the 2011 trial that Stefanoni had not followed international protocols regarding multiple amplifications. No, Torricelli does not count. She'd agreed that it had been a concern that the collection process in the bathroom had been questionable, in that there was perhaps a third, unidentified DNA presence mixed in with the mixed Knox/Kercher DNA. This was in the bathroom that Kercher and Knox had shared, but the possibility of a third female presence raised more questions as to the shoddiness of the forensic collection.

Then I'm gone. As Jack Twist had said, "I wish I knew how to quit you".
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:19 AM   #2190
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I said I read it and nothing was mentioned about her journals. So, here's a shot in the dark...why don't you provide a citation to this alleged exchange? You know...actually provide some evidence of this claim? It's always good to experience new things.
Your citation will come soon.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:23 AM   #2191
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Did RS ever deny listening to music that morning? Or did he just not mention it, perhaps thinking it was inconsequential since it had nothing to do with his whereabouts? Hell, if asked by the police what time I got up that morning, I doubt I'd mention the 4 AM trip to the toilet.

I'll ask you again: Do you really believe that, 2.5 years after the definitive judgment, a now DEFUNCT PR company is paying people to "reinvent" the reputation of an EX-client? Really?

And please stop with the "Marriott crib sheet" nonsense. It got old a long time ago as most inanities do after being heard several times.


No, you cannot blame the police this time. This fake alibi is 100% at Raff's door.

He lied. He gave police a provably fake alibi.

He never corrected it.

His phone and his PC were switched off the duration of the murder and for the rest of the night until next morning.

If he is Amanda's alibi, then guess what, both their alibis are provably fake.

Stop justifying the unjustifiable.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:24 AM   #2192
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Um..no, Marasca did not.

Both convicting courts were overturned. It doesn't matter what they "found".
If tertiary, or even secondary, transfer was "ruled out" then explain how the DNA of at least two other men were found on that bra hook. Did they also touch MK's bra?
If tertiary, or secondary, transfer was ruled out, then why did Marasca find that NO evidence was found of either RS or AK in MK's bedroom? He obviously ruled on the side of C&V's findings and not Stefanoni's.
Yes it does matter. As the final supreme court ruled that Knox and Sollecito lied umpteen times, had fake alibis and were at the murder scene, it cannot be claimed to be libel for anyone to repeat it.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:30 AM   #2193
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Computer expert reports from hearings of 14th March, 2009 and December 2010:

2009-03-13-Slides-Postal-Police-computer-Sollecito-Macbook.pdf
2009-03-13-Slides-Postal-Police-computer-Sollecito-Macbook-Fastweb-logs.pdf

IT Expert Testimony #1 : Claudio Trifici

IT Expert Testomony #2 Marco Trotta

HIs alibi was that he was on his computer all evening, yet this is a false alibi as there is no activity at all after the autodownload at 21:26 until 05:32 next morning.

As the prosecution say, a deliberately false alibi is evidence in itself.

Do get up to speed.
The accusation PGP have made that Raffaele said that he slept through the night when he had used his computer and Raffaele made no mention of this. I asked for evidence this. Instead of providing evidence Vixen said that Raffaele had said during his interrogation he had used his computer in the evening when records indicated he did not. This is a completely different accusation and Vixen refused to address the accusation and provide proof Raffaele had lied about using a computer at 5.30 am. I asked was the accusation Raffaele lied about using his computer at 5.30 am a lie. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask as PGP have a history of falsely accusing Amanda and Raffaele of lying when branding them as liars which is one of numerous ways PGP show gross hypocrisy when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying. At the end of this post I have given a list of falsehoods told by Vixen. Among the falsehoods listed below Vixen says Amanda and Raffaele lied about a leak when there was an actual leak
In the post below Vixen accuses Amanda of lying about what the police asked her about Meredith’s sex life. Vixen was asked to provide evidence the police denied this but she was unable to do so.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post11849235

I also recall Vixen accusing Amanda of lying about 53 hours interrogation during over a period of three days. As the link below regarding the interrogation shows, Amanda was telling the truth.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/the-interrogation/

Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies. If this was the case, why do PGP have to resort to inventing instances of Amanda and Raffaele lying? I don’t have to make up instances when Vixen has used falsehoods in her posts because I can provide plenty of genuine instances. Vixen should bear this in mind the next time she starts banging on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies.

With regards to the accusation Raffaele had said he used his computer during the evening when he had not. This has been explained before but it seems PGP posters are too stupid to take it in. When Raffaele was interrogated, he was brought in on the 5th of November and the murder happened on the 2nd which meant Raffaele was being asked to recollect events from 3 days ago. It can be difficult to remember exactly what someone did in these circumstances. In addition, Raffaele was being put under pressure by the police. Raffaele got the events of the 1st and 2nd of November mixed up. Raffaele explains this in his book. If Raffaele was describing actions which did not take place, he did this because he got mixed nights mixed up. What Raffaele said happened due to problems remembering rather than deliberate lying. It is strange how Vixen who claims to have done a degree in psychology does not understand that memory does not work perfectly.

PGP on the other hand tell deliberate blatant falsehoods which can’t be caused by problems with memory. This can be seen in Vixen’s posts where Vixen makes false claims which don’t appear in any records or contradict court records. In addition, PGP have supported those who tell blatant falsehoods. As can be seen from the links below, PGP have supported corrupt police/prosecutors who told deliberate lies by feeding false information to the media about bleach receipts, the Harry Potter book and showering in a bloody bathroom, lied in documentation and committed perjury.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/raffaeles-kitchen-knife/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/contam...bwork-coverup/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/meredi...ry-corruption/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/blood-...irs-apartment/
https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html

When PGP attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying there is something they leave out. PGP give the impression they object to lying in general but in reality they don’t have an issue with lying but how lies are employed. PGP only regard lying as wrong if it works in Amanda and Raffaele’s favour but lying is perfectly acceptable if it works against Amanda and Raffaele. If Raffaele did lie about his computer use, PGP only object to it because Raffaele used this supposed lie to his advantage. When lies are used against Amanda and Raffaele, they defend those making the lies or say nothing. As an example the lies told by the prosecution listed above are acceptable to the PGP because they work against Amanda and Raffaele. PGP are too dishonest to admit this. Yet another way PGP show gross hypocrisy when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying.

If someone is going to come an internet forum and viciously attack someone for lying whilst displaying gross hypocrisy displayed by my post below, they have an obligation to explain this hypocrisy which PGP have consistently refused to do. When I pointed out that Vixen has told numerous falsehoods in her posts and PGP have on numerous occasions defended and ignored liars, she completed ignored this in the response to my post. PGP either have no explanation for their hypocrisy or suffer from such chronic mental impairment they can’t understand it is hypocritical to attack someone for lying whilst lying yourself and supporting liars on an industrial scale.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11997763


Falsehoods told by Vixen

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11938562
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11942852
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11598412
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post11427461
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11951893
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11982023
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:30 AM   #2194
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Um..no, Marasca did not.

Both convicting courts were overturned. It doesn't matter what they "found".
If tertiary, or even secondary, transfer was "ruled out" then explain how the DNA of at least two other men were found on that bra hook. Did they also touch MK's bra?
If tertiary, or secondary, transfer was ruled out, then why did Marasca find that NO evidence was found of either RS or AK in MK's bedroom? He obviously ruled on the side of C&V's findings and not Stefanoni's.
As Boemia, expert shoe/foot and fingerprint analyst testified and as submitted by the prosecution, there was a ladies size 36 - 38 clear shoeprint on the pillow underneath the body.

Boemia used proper measuring equipment and grids, Vinci paid by the defence had nothing but conjecture.

As you can see it is a single footprint with clear outlines (not a man's half a footprint) with a heel measuring 40mm. This is the size associated with 36 - 38 in women's trainers.

Amanda Knox takes size 37.


There is her personal calling card in the murder room.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:32 AM   #2195
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Reading comprehension problems or willful blindness? I know which one I think it is.
At least I don't mindlessly churn out Marriott-style PR.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:33 AM   #2196
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Originally Posted by Mike1711 View Post
It's a problem.

There are, to put it bluntly, deranged people clinging to a guilty verdict. These sicko types won't go away, guys. They have invested their emotional sanity in a theme and it's spinning their heads.

If that vile creature, Guede, had it within his revolting conscience to come clean, these guilter sickoes would claim he was lying.

...but keep fighting guys. If it wasn't for the fact that two wholly and absolutely innocent people were being attacked it would be funny.

I feel for both AK and RS - they deserve their lives without this contemptible lot.

S'pose I have transgressed the rules...

It's a shame they got themselves arrested with their fake alibis and bloody footprints all over the murder scene.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:36 AM   #2197
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's a shame they got themselves arrested with their fake alibis and bloody footprints all over the murder scene.
Neither of them had bloody footprints at the crimescene.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:37 AM   #2198
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As Boemia, expert shoe/foot and fingerprint analyst testified and as submitted by the prosecution, there was a ladies size 36 - 38 clear shoeprint on the pillow underneath the body.

Boemia used proper measuring equipment and grids, Vinci paid by the defence had nothing but conjecture.

As you can see it is a single footprint with clear outlines (not a man's half a footprint) with a heel measuring 40mm. This is the size associated with 36 - 38 in women's trainers.

Amanda Knox takes size 37.


There is her personal calling card in the murder room.
Are we on about this again? Please stop.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:38 AM   #2199
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Originally Posted by Welshman View Post
The accusation PGP have made that Raffaele said that he slept through the night when he had used his computer and Raffaele made no mention of this. I asked for evidence this. Instead of providing evidence Vixen said that Raffaele had said during his interrogation he had used his computer in the evening when records indicated he did not. This is a completely different accusation and Vixen refused to address the accusation and provide proof Raffaele had lied about using a computer at 5.30 am. I asked was the accusation Raffaele lied about using his computer at 5.30 am a lie. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask as PGP have a history of falsely accusing Amanda and Raffaele of lying when branding them as liars which is one of numerous ways PGP show gross hypocrisy when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying. At the end of this post I have given a list of falsehoods told by Vixen. Among the falsehoods listed below Vixen says Amanda and Raffaele lied about a leak when there was an actual leak
In the post below Vixen accuses Amanda of lying about what the police asked her about Meredith’s sex life. Vixen was asked to provide evidence the police denied this but she was unable to do so.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post11849235

I also recall Vixen accusing Amanda of lying about 53 hours interrogation during over a period of three days. As the link below regarding the interrogation shows, Amanda was telling the truth.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/the-interrogation/

Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies. If this was the case, why do PGP have to resort to inventing instances of Amanda and Raffaele lying? I don’t have to make up instances when Vixen has used falsehoods in her posts because I can provide plenty of genuine instances. Vixen should bear this in mind the next time she starts banging on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies.

With regards to the accusation Raffaele had said he used his computer during the evening when he had not. This has been explained before but it seems PGP posters are too stupid to take it in. When Raffaele was interrogated, he was brought in on the 5th of November and the murder happened on the 2nd which meant Raffaele was being asked to recollect events from 3 days ago. It can be difficult to remember exactly what someone did in these circumstances. In addition, Raffaele was being put under pressure by the police. Raffaele got the events of the 1st and 2nd of November mixed up. Raffaele explains this in his book. If Raffaele was describing actions which did not take place, he did this because he got mixed nights mixed up. What Raffaele said happened due to problems remembering rather than deliberate lying. It is strange how Vixen who claims to have done a degree in psychology does not understand that memory does not work perfectly.

PGP on the other hand tell deliberate blatant falsehoods which can’t be caused by problems with memory. This can be seen in Vixen’s posts where Vixen makes false claims which don’t appear in any records or contradict court records. In addition, PGP have supported those who tell blatant falsehoods. As can be seen from the links below, PGP have supported corrupt police/prosecutors who told deliberate lies by feeding false information to the media about bleach receipts, the Harry Potter book and showering in a bloody bathroom, lied in documentation and committed perjury.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/raffaeles-kitchen-knife/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/contam...bwork-coverup/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/meredi...ry-corruption/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/blood-...irs-apartment/
https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html

When PGP attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying there is something they leave out. PGP give the impression they object to lying in general but in reality they don’t have an issue with lying but how lies are employed. PGP only regard lying as wrong if it works in Amanda and Raffaele’s favour but lying is perfectly acceptable if it works against Amanda and Raffaele. If Raffaele did lie about his computer use, PGP only object to it because Raffaele used this supposed lie to his advantage. When lies are used against Amanda and Raffaele, they defend those making the lies or say nothing. As an example the lies told by the prosecution listed above are acceptable to the PGP because they work against Amanda and Raffaele. PGP are too dishonest to admit this. Yet another way PGP show gross hypocrisy when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying.

If someone is going to come an internet forum and viciously attack someone for lying whilst displaying gross hypocrisy displayed by my post below, they have an obligation to explain this hypocrisy which PGP have consistently refused to do. When I pointed out that Vixen has told numerous falsehoods in her posts and PGP have on numerous occasions defended and ignored liars, she completed ignored this in the response to my post. PGP either have no explanation for their hypocrisy or suffer from such chronic mental impairment they can’t understand it is hypocritical to attack someone for lying whilst lying yourself and supporting liars on an industrial scale.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11997763


Falsehoods told by Vixen

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11938562
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11942852
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11598412
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post11427461
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11951893
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11982023

According to the Florence written reasons 10 Feb 2017 and as upheld by the final Supreme Court, he lied to police at least five times, changing his story more times than Trump at a Russiagate meeting.

He has only himself to blame if he got arrested.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:39 AM   #2200
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yes it does matter. As the final supreme court ruled that Knox and Sollecito lied umpteen times, had fake alibis and were at the murder scene, it cannot be claimed to be libel for anyone to repeat it.
The final Cassazione acquittal ruled no such things. Please stop.
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