|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
23rd September 2017, 02:21 PM | #2161 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
Sorry. In fact no one is sorrier than me. Trust me on this one.
I was looking for someone who hadn't admitted to a court that Stefanoni had not followed international protocols with regard to multiple amplifications. Novelli had just admitted that Stefanoni's results were useless. That's hardly a sign he'd supported her work! If you give me one, just one I can guarantee I won't let the door hit me on the way out...... |
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
23rd September 2017, 02:25 PM | #2162 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
|
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
23rd September 2017, 02:47 PM | #2163 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 884
|
PGP posters are yet again going on about Raffale lying about using a computer in the night without mentioning it. I have asked this question before. When did Raffale he slept throughout the night without mentioning using his computer. Was this in the statements prior to the police prior to the interrogation, during the interrogations or in statements to the court? Is there a link to any documents which proves this? As the post below shows PGP have made false accusations that Amanda and Raffaele have lied. Is the accusation Raffaele lied about using the computer another false accusation.
How is using playing music on a computer in Raffaele’s apartment and not mentioning incriminating? To use this as evidence of guilt smacks of desperation. If there was a mountain of solid evidence and a slam dunk case, why do PGP have to resort to using something completely innocent such as playing music and not mentioning it as evidence? As can be seen from my post below PGP have lied and supported liars on a massive scale. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11997763 There are numerous instances when Vixen has used falsehoods in her posts and many of her post make malicious accusations against Hellman, C&V and Hellman and Amanda and Raffaele. PGP have no problem with corrupt prosecutors feeding false information to the media, committing perjury and lying in court. PGP had no problem when Amanda was lied to she had HIV. PGP had no problem with witnesses such as Quintavelle and Curalto lying and the testimony of blatant liars being used as evidence to convict Amanda and Raffaele. The PGP had no problem when the Hellman acquittal was reversed on the basis of a motivation report riddled with falsehoods by Chieffi and Amanda and Raffaele being convicted on another motivation riddled with falsehoods produced by Nencini. PGP had no problem when the media and book authors spread lies about Amanda and Raffaele as detailed below. http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/ PGP had no problem with the British girls lying about Amanda in court as detailed below http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/the-british-girls/ PGP are outraged that Raffaele didn’t mention using a computer and regard this as a horrific lie when they have told and defended those who have told far worse lies. A perfect example of grotesque hypocrisy by PGP. More proof for my theory that PGP are trying deliberately to be as hypocritical as possible when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying. |
23rd September 2017, 02:50 PM | #2164 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
It bothers me not that the experts were paid. I would hope they had been.
What bothers me is that even the prosecution experts gave us (way up in the cheap seats) reason to doubt Stefanoni's skills, not to mention her results. Before hitting the road I'm going to have another look at the experts' testimony. Unless something is on TV. |
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
23rd September 2017, 03:50 PM | #2165 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
Professor Francesca Torricelli was the Kercher family DNA-expert, probably hired/engaged by Francesco Maresca, the famiy lawyer.
Prof Torricelli's principle contribution to the Hellmann trial, was testifying that (in her opinion) the lab Conti & Vecchiotti used: "the machinery they used during their investigation could check extremely low quantities of DNA", and thus the Hellmann court should have asked C&V to test 36I, rather than let C&V make the de facto judicial decision not to have it tested. (Be that as it may, when Sample 36I was tested later at the Nencini trial in 2013, it added nothing to the case, and nothing that pointed to guilt of the defendants.) And far from Prof. Torricelli giving a ringing endorsement of Stefanoni's work, Torricelli had joined in criticizing Stefanoni for the way the bathroom had been swabbed for DNA. Indeed, that method also found traces of a third female-DNA sample, which called into question that finding Knox/Kercher DNA in the same collection-sample would have had anything to do with the murder: So, once again, can Vixen find ONE forensic-DNA expert who supports Stefanoni's work? Withheld Data files On another matter - it was not until Sep 5, 2011, that the records that had been withheld from Conti&Vecchiotti "had been found by the prosecution". Maneula Comodi then asked that day that they be admitted into evidence, but the defence (successfully) objected that they should not be admitted at this late date, "because they were not in the files originally given to the new experts (cf. C&V)." Comodi countered by saying that those records could have been given to C&V, "if they'd only asked for them." But because they'd not been part of the original disclosure package, Hellmann disallowed them at this late date. |
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:06 PM | #2166 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
Everyone was paid including Stefanoni. Prosecution experts. Pietro Boemia and Dr. Lorenzo Rinaldi, a 35 year old physicist who worked for the Polizia Scientifica in Rome. However, for this case, they were hired guns working out of Prosecutor Mignini’s office and billing for their work.
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:19 PM | #2167 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:29 PM | #2168 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
|
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:29 PM | #2169 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:37 PM | #2170 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
Computer expert reports from hearings of 14th March, 2009 and December 2010: 2009-03-13-Slides-Postal-Police-computer-Sollecito-Macbook.pdf 2009-03-13-Slides-Postal-Police-computer-Sollecito-Macbook-Fastweb-logs.pdf IT Expert Testimony #1 : Claudio Trifici IT Expert Testomony #2 Marco Trotta HIs alibi was that he was on his computer all evening, yet this is a false alibi as there is no activity at all after the autodownload at 21:26 until 05:32 next morning. As the prosecution say, a deliberately false alibi is evidence in itself. Do get up to speed. |
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:41 PM | #2171 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
I am quoting expert witnesses from official court documents in the public domain and thus what they say is legally privileged.
There is no doubt at all that that is Raff's DNA on the bra clasp and Amanda confirmed to police she knew Raff carried a knife. Quote from Prosecutor Barrister Crini at the Florence Appeal Court 2013:
Quote:
In his statement to the police 6 Nov 2007, Raff said:
Quote:
Your claim that this is a lie is contemptible and childish. |
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:43 PM | #2172 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:48 PM | #2173 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
23rd September 2017, 04:51 PM | #2174 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
23rd September 2017, 05:16 PM | #2175 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
|
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
23rd September 2017, 05:30 PM | #2176 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
How do you work that out?
Marasca decreed that Amanda and Raff were at the scene of the murder when Mez was killed. Therefore he was not sitting at his computer alone smoking a spliff. As the recent Florence Court says, 10 Feb 2017, if he was not at the cottage then he had a duty to inform police in what condition Knox arrived home. We can infer given his DNA on the bra clasp - and tertiary transfer was officially ruled out by the merits courts - the reason he cannot is because he was an equal participant, as witness his footprints on the bathmat and in the hall way. |
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
23rd September 2017, 05:40 PM | #2177 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
Because you didn't offer you libel as part of a quote.
They didn't. They said that even if what the prosecution had said was true, all it proved was that they'd been there after the crime and in another part of the house. Read his book. Who cares what that court had said. It was not a fact finding court about the murder, it was a compensation court. His foottrack was not on the mat. His foottrack was not in the hall (and so what if it was?) Tertiary transfer was not ruled out by the merits courts. The bra clasp was not collected properly: None of this protects YOU from libel. |
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
23rd September 2017, 06:03 PM | #2178 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
|
23rd September 2017, 06:22 PM | #2179 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
Did RS ever deny listening to music that morning? Or did he just not mention it, perhaps thinking it was inconsequential since it had nothing to do with his whereabouts? Hell, if asked by the police what time I got up that morning, I doubt I'd mention the 4 AM trip to the toilet.
I'll ask you again: Do you really believe that, 2.5 years after the definitive judgment, a now DEFUNCT PR company is paying people to "reinvent" the reputation of an EX-client? Really? And please stop with the "Marriott crib sheet" nonsense. It got old a long time ago as most inanities do after being heard several times. |
23rd September 2017, 06:27 PM | #2180 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
|
23rd September 2017, 06:37 PM | #2181 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
Um..no, Marasca did not.
Both convicting courts were overturned. It doesn't matter what they "found". If tertiary, or even secondary, transfer was "ruled out" then explain how the DNA of at least two other men were found on that bra hook. Did they also touch MK's bra? If tertiary, or secondary, transfer was ruled out, then why did Marasca find that NO evidence was found of either RS or AK in MK's bedroom? He obviously ruled on the side of C&V's findings and not Stefanoni's. |
23rd September 2017, 07:53 PM | #2182 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
23rd September 2017, 08:27 PM | #2183 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
It is clear that not only has Vixen not read the words "even if", in the Marasca-Bruno report.....
Vixen has not read the report at all. Early in Section 6, M/B discuss the importance of establishing time-of-death. M/B then criticized the Nencini court for wrongly saying that establishing TOD was not necessary or important. So M/B cut into the Nencini court "reasoning" thusly: Far from putting them in the cottage at the time of the murder, M/B lays it out - the investigation was so "careless" (particularly regarding the determination of TOD) that that made it impossible to tell, really, when he'd been there - and he admits to have been there late morning on Nov 2. But M/B saves the best for last. Both "even if" and "alleged" come to the fore in all of Section 9, when M/B sets it up. Even if the prosecution and/or investigation had not been amnesiac or careless..... There it is. The M/B report says what Vixen wants it to say if one doesn't read the whole thing, and, indeed, doesn't read all the words they wrote. |
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
23rd September 2017, 09:02 PM | #2184 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
|
23rd September 2017, 09:27 PM | #2185 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,306
|
|
23rd September 2017, 10:03 PM | #2186 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
24th September 2017, 08:39 AM | #2187 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 624
|
It's a problem.
There are, to put it bluntly, deranged people clinging to a guilty verdict. These sicko types won't go away, guys. They have invested their emotional sanity in a theme and it's spinning their heads. If that vile creature, Guede, had it within his revolting conscience to come clean, these guilter sickoes would claim he was lying. ...but keep fighting guys. If it wasn't for the fact that two wholly and absolutely innocent people were being attacked it would be funny. I feel for both AK and RS - they deserve their lives without this contemptible lot. S'pose I have transgressed the rules... |
24th September 2017, 09:01 AM | #2188 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
|
|
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
|
24th September 2017, 09:15 AM | #2189 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
It's a sad day when speaking the truth is seen as a transgression.
The principals of this case have mostly gotten on with their lives, with occasional run-ins with people, well-meaning or otherwise, who throw it back at them. Occasionally either of them give formal presentations to others who've been wrongfully convicted/prosecuted, including to bar associations and law schools. Both RS and AK are now waiting on the ECHR to decide on matters somewhat distant from the main, original allegations of murder and mayhem. But it is us who cannot seem to move on, in this far-off corner of the internet. Me - I am hoping that some of the pre-March 2015 guilters who have stopped posting anywhere (ones that I'd had PM's with) would send a PM and we can have one last go at it. Truly - all it would take for me to be gone would be if Vixen would finally concede that there are no forensic-DNA experts anywhere in Italy or in the rest of the world who would stand by Stefanoni's work. (Vixen would also have to keep to that concession for a year, including correcting others who made the same mistake.) No, Novelli does not count. He'd verified at the 2011 trial that Stefanoni had not followed international protocols regarding multiple amplifications. No, Torricelli does not count. She'd agreed that it had been a concern that the collection process in the bathroom had been questionable, in that there was perhaps a third, unidentified DNA presence mixed in with the mixed Knox/Kercher DNA. This was in the bathroom that Kercher and Knox had shared, but the possibility of a third female presence raised more questions as to the shoddiness of the forensic collection. Then I'm gone. As Jack Twist had said, "I wish I knew how to quit you". |
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
24th September 2017, 09:19 AM | #2190 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
24th September 2017, 09:23 AM | #2191 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
No, you cannot blame the police this time. This fake alibi is 100% at Raff's door. He lied. He gave police a provably fake alibi. He never corrected it. His phone and his PC were switched off the duration of the murder and for the rest of the night until next morning. If he is Amanda's alibi, then guess what, both their alibis are provably fake. Stop justifying the unjustifiable. |
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
24th September 2017, 09:24 AM | #2192 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
24th September 2017, 09:30 AM | #2193 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 884
|
The accusation PGP have made that Raffaele said that he slept through the night when he had used his computer and Raffaele made no mention of this. I asked for evidence this. Instead of providing evidence Vixen said that Raffaele had said during his interrogation he had used his computer in the evening when records indicated he did not. This is a completely different accusation and Vixen refused to address the accusation and provide proof Raffaele had lied about using a computer at 5.30 am. I asked was the accusation Raffaele lied about using his computer at 5.30 am a lie. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask as PGP have a history of falsely accusing Amanda and Raffaele of lying when branding them as liars which is one of numerous ways PGP show gross hypocrisy when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying. At the end of this post I have given a list of falsehoods told by Vixen. Among the falsehoods listed below Vixen says Amanda and Raffaele lied about a leak when there was an actual leak
In the post below Vixen accuses Amanda of lying about what the police asked her about Meredith’s sex life. Vixen was asked to provide evidence the police denied this but she was unable to do so. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post11849235 I also recall Vixen accusing Amanda of lying about 53 hours interrogation during over a period of three days. As the link below regarding the interrogation shows, Amanda was telling the truth. http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/the-interrogation/ Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies. If this was the case, why do PGP have to resort to inventing instances of Amanda and Raffaele lying? I don’t have to make up instances when Vixen has used falsehoods in her posts because I can provide plenty of genuine instances. Vixen should bear this in mind the next time she starts banging on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies. With regards to the accusation Raffaele had said he used his computer during the evening when he had not. This has been explained before but it seems PGP posters are too stupid to take it in. When Raffaele was interrogated, he was brought in on the 5th of November and the murder happened on the 2nd which meant Raffaele was being asked to recollect events from 3 days ago. It can be difficult to remember exactly what someone did in these circumstances. In addition, Raffaele was being put under pressure by the police. Raffaele got the events of the 1st and 2nd of November mixed up. Raffaele explains this in his book. If Raffaele was describing actions which did not take place, he did this because he got mixed nights mixed up. What Raffaele said happened due to problems remembering rather than deliberate lying. It is strange how Vixen who claims to have done a degree in psychology does not understand that memory does not work perfectly. PGP on the other hand tell deliberate blatant falsehoods which can’t be caused by problems with memory. This can be seen in Vixen’s posts where Vixen makes false claims which don’t appear in any records or contradict court records. In addition, PGP have supported those who tell blatant falsehoods. As can be seen from the links below, PGP have supported corrupt police/prosecutors who told deliberate lies by feeding false information to the media about bleach receipts, the Harry Potter book and showering in a bloody bathroom, lied in documentation and committed perjury. http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/raffaeles-kitchen-knife/ http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/contam...bwork-coverup/ http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/meredi...ry-corruption/ http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/ http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/blood-...irs-apartment/ https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/ http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html When PGP attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying there is something they leave out. PGP give the impression they object to lying in general but in reality they don’t have an issue with lying but how lies are employed. PGP only regard lying as wrong if it works in Amanda and Raffaele’s favour but lying is perfectly acceptable if it works against Amanda and Raffaele. If Raffaele did lie about his computer use, PGP only object to it because Raffaele used this supposed lie to his advantage. When lies are used against Amanda and Raffaele, they defend those making the lies or say nothing. As an example the lies told by the prosecution listed above are acceptable to the PGP because they work against Amanda and Raffaele. PGP are too dishonest to admit this. Yet another way PGP show gross hypocrisy when they attack Amanda and Raffaele for lying. If someone is going to come an internet forum and viciously attack someone for lying whilst displaying gross hypocrisy displayed by my post below, they have an obligation to explain this hypocrisy which PGP have consistently refused to do. When I pointed out that Vixen has told numerous falsehoods in her posts and PGP have on numerous occasions defended and ignored liars, she completed ignored this in the response to my post. PGP either have no explanation for their hypocrisy or suffer from such chronic mental impairment they can’t understand it is hypocritical to attack someone for lying whilst lying yourself and supporting liars on an industrial scale. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11997763 Falsehoods told by Vixen http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11938562 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11942852 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11598412 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post11427461 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11951893 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11982023 |
24th September 2017, 09:30 AM | #2194 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
As Boemia, expert shoe/foot and fingerprint analyst testified and as submitted by the prosecution, there was a ladies size 36 - 38 clear shoeprint on the pillow underneath the body.
Boemia used proper measuring equipment and grids, Vinci paid by the defence had nothing but conjecture. As you can see it is a single footprint with clear outlines (not a man's half a footprint) with a heel measuring 40mm. This is the size associated with 36 - 38 in women's trainers. Amanda Knox takes size 37. There is her personal calling card in the murder room. |
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
24th September 2017, 09:32 AM | #2195 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
24th September 2017, 09:33 AM | #2196 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
24th September 2017, 09:36 AM | #2197 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
|
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
24th September 2017, 09:37 AM | #2198 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
|
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
24th September 2017, 09:38 AM | #2199 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
24th September 2017, 09:39 AM | #2200 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,561
|
|
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|