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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:58 AM   #3361
Welshman
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The prosecution has a ready and willing PR company at their disposal that they don't even have to pay for: the media. The police/prosecutor/"sources close to the prosecution" give the media information that they want published. Naturally, only their side is given to the media. The public reads this and assumes it's all true and accurate without hearing any contradictory evidence. The defense is constantly trying to catch up with this tactic but the harm is already done. This is especially true in the early stages of an investigation. For example, the picture of the "bloody bathroom", the report of the running washing machine, Amanda's "lie" about the Harry Potter book, the "bloody footprints", Amanda smelling of sex, the bleach receipt, etc all swayed the public in the early stages of the investigation toward guilt. The defense is at an absolute disadvantage from day one and, even when the defendants hire someone to help them combat this prosecution advantage, they get attacked and accused of trying to manipulate and sway public opinion. But the police/prosecution are never seen as doing the exact same thing only they don't have to hire anyone and get it all for free.
I agree the media provided very effective PR for the prosecution in several ways. The prosecution had friendly journalists such as John Follain. To the best of my knowledge the mainstream media never covered the massive level of corruption by the police/prosecution described in the links below.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/raffaeles-kitchen-knife/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/contam...bwork-coverup/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/meredi...ry-corruption/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/blood-...irs-apartment/
https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html
Besides the falsehoods fed to the media, the media told their own falsehoods as detailed in the links below
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/

A lot of the media coverage towards Amanda was very hostile as detailed below

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/media.html

Despite the conduct of the media, TJMK complained the media was biased in Amanda’s favour. It shows how stupid and deluded PGP are.

If as Vixen constantly claims, there was a mountain of evidence and a strong case against Amanda and Raffaele, why did the prosecution had to resort to spreading false information to the media regarding bleach receipts, the washing machine running, the Harry Potter books and showering in a bloody bathroom. Why resort to numerous lies if the prosecution had so much evidence and a slam dunk case. There is a golden rule that the prosecution should never have to resort to lying if they have a slam dunk case.

The relationship between the media and the prosecution shows the industrial scale hypocrisy of the PGP. They complain about Amanda’s family using a PR firm but had no problem when the media provided effective PR for corrupt prosecutors. Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies but PGP had no problem with the prosecutors leaking umpteen lies to the media and the media spreading lies about Amanda.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 07:09 AM   #3362
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
The ECHR and its parent organization, the Council of Europe (CoE) recently began providing a summary of the "supervisory actions" of the Committee of Ministers (which "supervises the execution" of ECHR judgments) in a Country Factsheet Profile - different from the one tracking noteworthy ECHR judgments - for each member State of the CoE.

For Italy, there is a long list of ongoing and closed Supervisions. Of relevance are enacted reforms attributed to closed Supervisions:

"Constitutional reform in 1999 confers constitutional rank to a number of requirements of Article 6 of the Convention (fair trial, adversarial process, equality of arms…).

Additional safeguards in 2001 for persons who made pre-trial statements and subsequently availed themselves of their right to remain silent; the use of such statements require the consent of all interested parties. Besides, it is no longer possible for someone to be convicted on the sole basis of
statements he/she was unable to cross-examine."

Also of interest:

For Italy:
Total number of cases transmitted for supervision since the entry into force of the Convention [26 Oct 1955] = 4120
Total number of cases closed by final resolution = 2004

For the UK (as a comparison):
Total number of cases transmitted for supervision since the entry into force of the Convention [03 Sep 1953] = 434
Total number of cases closed by final resolution = 418

Source:
https://www.coe.int/en/web/execution/country-factsheets
See links to PDFs for the individual States

The reformed Italian Constitution includes the following; provisions relevant to the AK - RS case (because they were violated during one or more of the trial "stages") are highlighted:

Article 111

Jurisdiction is implemented through due process regulated by law.

All court trials are conducted with adversary proceedings and the parties are entitled to equal conditions before an impartial judge in third party position.

The law provides for the reasonable duration of trials.

In criminal law trials, the law provides that the alleged offender shall be promptly informed confidentially of the nature and reasons for the charges that are brought and shall have adequate time and conditions to prepare a defence.

The defendant shall have the right to cross-examine or to have cross-examined before a judge the persons making accusations and to summon and examine persons for the defence in the same conditions as the prosecution, as well as the right to produce all other evidence in favour of the defence.

The defendant is entitled to the assistance of an interpreter in the case that he or she does not speak or understand the language in which the court proceedings are conducted.
In criminal law proceedings, the formation of evidence is based on the principle of adversary hearings.


The guilt of the defendant cannot be established on the basis of statements by persons who, out of their own free choice, have always voluntarily avoided undergoing cross-examination by the defendant or the defence counsel.

The law regulates the cases in which the formation of evidence does not occur in an adversary proceeding with the consent of the defendant or owing to reasons of ascertained objective impossibility or proven illicit conduct.

All judicial decisions shall include a statement of reasons.*

Appeals to the Court of Cassation in cases of violations of the law are always allowed against sentences and against measures affecting personal freedom pronounced by ordinary and special courts. This rule can only be waived in cases of sentences by military tribunals in time of war.

Appeals to the Court of Cassation against decisions of the Council of State and the Court of Accounts are permitted only for reasons of jurisdiction.

*Violated because the "reasoning" of the statement of reasons was arbitrary, for example, by including justifications of guilt which presumed physically impossible actions, such as a selective cleanup of DNA evidence.

Source for English text of Italian Constitution, Article 111:

https://www.senato.it/documenti/repo...ne_inglese.pdf
Here are some other articles of the Italian Constitution that were violated in the AK - RS case. (There may be other articles in addition to Art. 111 and those in this listing which were violated but which are not included in this listing.)

Art. 24
Anyone may bring cases before a court of law in order to protect their rights
under civil and administrative law.
Defense is an inviolable right at every stage and instance of legal proceedings.*
The poor are entitled by law to proper means for action or defense in all
courts.
The law shall define the conditions and forms of reparation in case of judicial
errors.


Art. 25
No case may be removed from the court seized with it as established by law.
No punishment may be inflicted except by virtue of a law in force at the time
the offence was committed.
No restriction may be placed on a person's liberty save for as provided by law.***

Art. 27
Criminal responsibility is personal.
A defendant shall be considered not guilty until a final sentence has been
passed.
****
Punishments may not be inhuman and shall aim at re-educating the convicted.
Death penalty is prohibited.

Art. 28
Officials of the State or public agencies shall be directly responsible under
criminal, civil, and administrative law for acts committed in violation of
rights.
In such cases, civil liability shall extend to the State and to such public
agency.
*****

*According to ECHR case-law, legal proceedings in a criminal case include the first questioning of a suspect by the authorities.

**According to ECHR case-law, such laws of compensation are not to be applied in an arbitrary fashion or in a way that violates the presumption of innocence.

***According to ECHR case-law, there must be reasonable suspicion to arrest and detain a person. The arrest is a violation of the Convention unless the grounds of the arrest satisfy both domestic (that is, Italian) law and the case-law of the ECHR under Article 5.

****Violated by the use of the verdict of Guede's short-track trial against Knox and Sollecito.

*****No compensation has been awarded yet to Knox or Sollecito for the violations of their defense rights.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 07:43 AM   #3363
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Oh, you didn't catch the speech a cople of days ago that General Kelly gave defending the Trumpster and lying.

Does this mean that you defend congresswoman Frederica S. Wilson's calling out Trump for his call to the family of the killed soldier, Sgt. La David Johnson? That, in and of itself, was a despicable attack against someone calling to offer condolences, no matter how well it was handled.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 09:06 AM   #3364
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Originally Posted by sept79 View Post
Does this mean that you defend congresswoman Frederica S. Wilson's calling out Trump for his call to the family of the killed soldier, Sgt. La David Johnson? That, in and of itself, was a despicable attack against someone calling to offer condolences, no matter how well it was handled.
Meanwhile, no one is talking about the Benghazi-like bungling of the administration. Trump pivoted into a discussion of "calling Gold Star families" when asked why he'd not addressed the tragedy in Niger.

Which is the parallel to this thread. Instead of talking about there not being any forensics for 2 of the three accused at the crimescene, let's talk about cartwheels and judicial truths from other trials.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 10:35 AM   #3365
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Originally Posted by sept79 View Post
Does this mean that you defend congresswoman Frederica S. Wilson's calling out Trump for his call to the family of the killed soldier, Sgt. La David Johnson? That, in and of itself, was a despicable attack against someone calling to offer condolences, no matter how well it was handled.
The point was truthfulness. I thought the Congresswoman was petty But just as petty was Trump's response to the Congresswoman and even more petty was his attack on former Presidents. Kelly was just proof how low people will go in apologizing for the President. A career General got up and lied for the President? Isn't that despicable? Isn't it despicable that Trump lied about former US Presidents not calling the loved ones?
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Old 22nd October 2017, 12:52 PM   #3366
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I coulda swore people said they were going to quit the Trump bashing in this thread. I guess when you can't stand someone, it makes you feel good to publicly slam them, right Vixen?
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Old 22nd October 2017, 12:54 PM   #3367
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Originally Posted by Thitical Crinker View Post
I coulda swore people said they were going to quit the Trump bashing in this thread. I guess when you can't stand someone, it makes you feel good to publicly slam them, right Vixen?
What? I haven't mentioned Trump.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:01 PM   #3368
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I implied nothing at all, I simply observed a common behaviour.

If you want scurrilous, look to your own...
In one stroke you are claiming that women are all brainless twits whose brains can be induced to dribble out their ears so long as the bloke wears the right after-shave, or in my case, instead-of-shave since I sport at beard. I'm a bloke, and I am deeply offended that you would trivialise the other half of humanity in that way. As a man, I can say that I find this sort of misogyny utterly repulsive.
That's a sweeping generalisation, isn't it? You've never heard of Anna Smith...?

It is a fact Curt seems to have all these women fighting over him.

Having a beard shouldn't preclude you from dabbing gentlemen's Eu de Cologne over your person.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:02 PM   #3369
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
She didn't tell me anything.

If someone has published something on the internet such as her article on Ground Report, then it is available to be used as long as the proper credit is given to the author. Pruett wouldn't have had a leg to stand on and neither would Amazon. But that ain't the way it went down, is it?

You have been told it was.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:03 PM   #3370
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I could go looking for it and maybe I will when I've got more time. Right now, I can only quote your buddy, NvdL, for Deceit:

"Amanda is not thinking straight. She is drunk on coke and marijuana."
Er, hang on a minute. Don't attribute other people's quotes to me.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:05 PM   #3371
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You have not come right out and said it but you have implied it on many occasions:



Your answer:
Cont 20, #2668




Your answer:

cont 20 #2681

Cont. 23 #1563

#3079 cont 20

You know there is no evidence of AK ever using cocaine, so you resort to this back door spin instead.
I can't see any quote there where I said Knox was a cocaine user. Her boyfriend on the train was indeed jailed for cocaine smuggling. Fact.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:09 PM   #3372
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Or lie about their lies.
Politicians lie. Sean Spicer was paid to spin for Trump. That was his job.


Do bears **** in the woods?
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:11 PM   #3373
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Originally Posted by Welshman View Post
TJMK complained about Amanda hiring a PR firm and the PR campaign waged on behalf of Amanda. TJMK and Vixen slavishly defend Mignini despite the fact Mignini is a total scumbag with a dubious history which meant TJMK was an PR tool for Mignini. Amanda was viciously attacked for using PR but TJMK felt it was perfectly acceptable to provide PR for a corrupt prosecutor. Yet another example of hypocrisy by PGP.
There is zero evidence Mignini is, or was, corrupt.

A prosecutor prosecutes. That's his job.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:15 PM   #3374
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The prosecution has a ready and willing PR company at their disposal that they don't even have to pay for: the media. The police/prosecutor/"sources close to the prosecution" give the media information that they want published. Naturally, only their side is given to the media. The public reads this and assumes it's all true and accurate without hearing any contradictory evidence. The defense is constantly trying to catch up with this tactic but the harm is already done. This is especially true in the early stages of an investigation. For example, the picture of the "bloody bathroom", the report of the running washing machine, Amanda's "lie" about the Harry Potter book, the "bloody footprints", Amanda smelling of sex, the bleach receipt, etc all swayed the public in the early stages of the investigation toward guilt. The defense is at an absolute disadvantage from day one and, even when the defendants hire someone to help them combat this prosecution advantage, they get attacked and accused of trying to manipulate and sway public opinion. But the police/prosecution are never seen as doing the exact same thing only they don't have to hire anyone and get it all for free.
The police and the prosecutors are establishment. They get to enforce the law.

There would be no sense prosecuting someone unless you have a fair chance of success.

It's not law enforcement if you don't catch the right people. The police and the prosecutors don't have a say in determining the verdict.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:19 PM   #3375
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Originally Posted by Welshman View Post
I agree the media provided very effective PR for the prosecution in several ways. The prosecution had friendly journalists such as John Follain. To the best of my knowledge the mainstream media never covered the massive level of corruption by the police/prosecution described in the links below.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/raffaeles-kitchen-knife/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/contam...bwork-coverup/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/meredi...ry-corruption/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/blood-...irs-apartment/
https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html
Besides the falsehoods fed to the media, the media told their own falsehoods as detailed in the links below
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/

A lot of the media coverage towards Amanda was very hostile as detailed below

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/media.html

Despite the conduct of the media, TJMK complained the media was biased in Amanda’s favour. It shows how stupid and deluded PGP are.

If as Vixen constantly claims, there was a mountain of evidence and a strong case against Amanda and Raffaele, why did the prosecution had to resort to spreading false information to the media regarding bleach receipts, the washing machine running, the Harry Potter books and showering in a bloody bathroom. Why resort to numerous lies if the prosecution had so much evidence and a slam dunk case. There is a golden rule that the prosecution should never have to resort to lying if they have a slam dunk case.

The relationship between the media and the prosecution shows the industrial scale hypocrisy of the PGP. They complain about Amanda’s family using a PR firm but had no problem when the media provided effective PR for corrupt prosecutors. Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies but PGP had no problem with the prosecutors leaking umpteen lies to the media and the media spreading lies about Amanda.
It is slam dunk the pair committed the crime and there is a mountain of evidence. The merits court found them guilty on evidence BARD and the appeal court upheld the conviction.

Marasca clearly state they annulled the case because of the press coverage and because of flaws in the investigation, neither of which were legal issues in the first place.

Marasca did confirm the kids lied and lied and lied, were there at the murder when it happened, washed off the victim's blood and did cover up for Rudy.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:21 PM   #3376
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
There is zero evidence Mignini is, or was, corrupt.

A prosecutor prosecutes. That's his job.
Every once in a while the PGP-PR effort badly shows its hand. Defend Mignini even if you have to lie to do it.

During the 2009 trial where he was the prosecutor, Mignini himself was facing criminal abuse of office allegations to do with the Narducci affair. Following his prosecutorial role in the Kercher trials, he was sanctioned for denying Sollecito his rights at interrogation.

One of the main agendas of the PGP-PR machine is to defend Mignini. It would be better if they did it without lying.

Note - after saying there was "no evidence" the campaign will turn to "disputing" this. Which begs the question.....
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Last edited by Bill Williams; 22nd October 2017 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:27 PM   #3377
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Mod Warning Some posts discussing Forum Management and the MA have been split to FMF Please raise forum management discussions only in the FMF area.
Responding to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By:Agatha
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:34 PM   #3378
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post

Marasca did confirm the kids lied and lied and lied, were there at the murder when it happened, washed off the victim's blood and did cover up for Rudy.
The PR campaign will simply repeat these long since discredited talking points..... because otherwise they'd have no case.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:58 PM   #3379
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It is slam dunk the pair committed the crime and there is a mountain of evidence. The merits court found them guilty on evidence BARD and the appeal court upheld the conviction.

Marasca clearly state they annulled the case because of the press coverage and because of flaws in the investigation, neither of which were legal issues in the first place.

Marasca did confirm the kids lied and lied and lied, were there at the murder when it happened, washed off the victim's blood and did cover up for Rudy.
Yes, it was a slam dunk case with tons of evidence, and everyone that posts here besides you is a delusional moron, but by astonishing coincidence reality has deemed to satisfy our delusions by making the case play out exactly how one would have expected it to play out if it was based on piss poor evidence and prosecution/judicial malfeasance, with multiple acquittals and esteemed outsider consensus that the case was bad. What horrible luck that the physical outcome subverts and defies your secretly correct world view. That is definitely what is going on. Rofl.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:28 PM   #3380
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That's a sweeping generalisation, isn't it? You've never heard of Anna Smith...?

It is a fact Curt seems to have all these women fighting over him.

Having a beard shouldn't preclude you from dabbing gentlemen's Eu de Cologne over your person.
No, it is not a fact at all. It's just another baseless claim proffered by those who feel the need to attack Knox's family for their own psychological needs. Not a single shred of evidence has been offered to support this sad and petty claim. It's just more dirt slinging.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 22nd October 2017 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:30 PM   #3381
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Er, hang on a minute. Don't attribute other people's quotes to me.
Do you agree with NvdL's quote or would you like to take this opportunity to disagree?
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:38 PM   #3382
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I can't see any quote there where I said Knox was a cocaine user. Her boyfriend on the train was indeed jailed for cocaine smuggling. Fact.
As I said, you've never come right out and said it but you have implied it many times as your quotes show. Just come out and clear this up with a simple "yes" or "no" answer; do you believe Knox used cocaine?

Ummm...he was not her boyfriend. Nice try there and oh so typical. There is no evidence she ever saw him again after that train trip and evening they spent at the same hotel. Or do you think a dinner (shared with her sister) and doing some heavy petting later constitutes a boyfriend relationship? If so, you have a very peculiar definition of what a boyfriend is.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:44 PM   #3383
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Do you agree with NvdL's quote or would you like to take this opportunity to disagree?
I'm an independent person in my own right. Nick believes cocaine consumption was a factor in the crime.

All I know about is the hashish, which is not a substance that is associated with violence.

My view of the crime is that it was a sadistic 'thrill killing' and if drugs were involved, they would be as a facilitator, not the trigger. Rather in the same way the WM3 drank beer and whiskey to loosen their inhibitions.

Since I believe the murderers have a personality disorder, the secondary issue of 'what drugs were they on' is not particularly relevant.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:46 PM   #3384
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You have been told it was.
LOL! And that's why Amazon suspended his account until he removed the relevant content?

As I said (and which you ignore): if something is published on the internet (as Pruett's timeline was)) then an author has every legal right to use it as long as it is correctly and legally cited. Whether Pruett wanted it included in vdL's book or not would not have mattered. And Amazon would have had no cause to suspend his account. No matter how often and how loud you proclaim otherwise, those are the facts.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:56 PM   #3385
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I'm an independent person in my own right. Nick believes cocaine consumption was a factor in the crime.

All I know about is the hashish, which is not a substance that is associated with violence.

My view of the crime is that it was a sadistic 'thrill killing' and if drugs were involved, they would be as a facilitator, not the trigger. Rather in the same way the WM3 drank beer and whiskey to loosen their inhibitions.

Since I believe the murderers have a personality disorder, the secondary issue of 'what drugs were they on' is not particularly relevant.
What evidence does Nick base his claim on? Nothing as there is none. In fact, forensic tests showed no cocaine use by Knox. Yet he declares it as a fact thus misinforming his ignorant readers.

I see you are tap dancing around the question. No surprise there. I rather suspected you would. Nice touch, by the way, with the WM3 drinking beer and whiskey bit. Subtle...but the implication is there. And that is what you do.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 04:08 PM   #3386
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
LOL! And that's why Amazon suspended his account until he removed the relevant content?

As I said (and which you ignore): if something is published on the internet (as Pruett's timeline was)) then an author has every legal right to use it as long as it is correctly and legally cited. Whether Pruett wanted it included in vdL's book or not would not have mattered. And Amazon would have had no cause to suspend his account. No matter how often and how loud you proclaim otherwise, those are the facts.
You have it arse over tits. Amazon do not get involved in dispute resolution.

Somebody called Michael B bragged he had a pirated PDF version of Nick's book and offered to send it to anybody who wanted to read it. Howzat for a wilful breach of copyright?


[quote]
Originally Posted by Annella
Originally Posted by MichaelB
Someone gave me a free copy of the latest drivel from that phony Nick van der Leek.

This is quite funny:

Quote:
Curiously, just a few weeks after DECEIT was published at the end of May 2015, one of the key timelines supporting Amanda’s version of events disappeared. DECEIT criticised the accuracy of these timelines and assertions, referencing particular inaccuracies published on the Ground Report platform.The contentious timeline, compiled and authored by Karen Pruett, a Seattle-based hairdresser and supporter of the Knox family,is now unavailable online and thus unavailable to be scrutinised. In the first iteration directly quoting Pruett [in DOUBT], Pruett actively and successfully tried to have the book blocked on Amazon. We then republished DOUBT as DECEIT, excised all references to Pruett, but did make reference by hyperlinking to dodgy timeline data on Ground Report. As I say, the entire site is now offline too. Coincidental or suspicious?

A well-balanced, open-minded reader might well ponder: “Well, who is Pruett anyway, and how important is she?” Well, on Amanda Knox’s official website, under the section TIMELINE, the 31 go to hyperlink at the top of the page is to none other than Pruett’s timeline. Pruett is also mentioned by name prominently at the very top of the page dedicated to TIMELINE. In other words, Knox endorses Pruett’s version, and Pruett endorses Knox’s version. Of course, the link on Knox’s website to Pruett’s timeline [on Ground Report] is no longer a functional link.
Really? Works for me. :mrgreen:


Here's the PDF of "Under Suspicion" if anyone can be bothered reading it.
Ground Report works for me too!

I started to read Leek's novel and got to the part where the note regarding an apartment to rent is deemed to written by Amanda Knox. The author probably needs to study how most Italians write. I actually questioned some Italian family members about just how similar handwriting was among them all and it appears at school you were required to write that way. If I can find some examples from letters sent to me from family I will put them up...if anybody is interested! They all looked just like the handwriting in that note. I wont be reading any further. Mind you I have never been into fantasy. ;-)
http://www.groundreport.com/5088798/
Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:01 am


So, the fanatical unhinged Amanda Knox foot soldjah MichaelB himself confirms Nick published a direct link to Pruett's timeline linked to her own article.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 04:16 PM   #3387
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As I said, you've never come right out and said it but you have implied it many times as your quotes show. Just come out and clear this up with a simple "yes" or "no" answer; do you believe Knox used cocaine?

Ummm...he was not her boyfriend. Nice try there and oh so typical. There is no evidence she ever saw him again after that train trip and evening they spent at the same hotel. Or do you think a dinner (shared with her sister) and doing some heavy petting later constitutes a boyfriend relationship? If so, you have a very peculiar definition of what a boyfriend is.
They kept in touch afterwards. The only reason he was caught and jailed was because police found his details on her phone contacts. ('Your phone, his details'.)

What do you want me to call him, her co-fornicator..?
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Old 22nd October 2017, 04:21 PM   #3388
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What evidence does Nick base his claim on? Nothing as there is none. In fact, forensic tests showed no cocaine use by Knox. Yet he declares it as a fact thus misinforming his ignorant readers.

I see you are tap dancing around the question. No surprise there. I rather suspected you would. Nice touch, by the way, with the WM3 drinking beer and whiskey bit. Subtle...but the implication is there. And that is what you do.

It's his considered opinion and he explains in detail why and how he comes to that opinion.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 04:51 PM   #3389
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[quote=Vixen;12045051]You have it arse over tits. Amazon do not get involved in dispute resolution.

Somebody called Michael B bragged he had a pirated PDF version of Nick's book and offered to send it to anybody who wanted to read it. Howzat for a wilful breach of copyright?


Quote:
Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:01 am


So, the fanatical unhinged Amanda Knox foot soldjah himself confirms Nick published a direct link to Pruett's timeline linked to her own article.
Michael does not confirm "Nick published a direct link to Pruett's timeline". Van der Leek says he quoted Pruett but does not say he linked to her article in Doubt. He only hyperlinked to it in Deceit:

Quote:
In the first iteration directly quoting Pruett [in DOUBT], Pruett actively and successfully tried to have the book blocked on Amazon. We then republished DOUBT as DECEIT, excised all references to Pruett, but did make reference by hyperlinking to dodgy timeline data on Ground Report.
I see you describe Michael as a "fanatical and unhinged" Knox foot soldier. You just can't stop the personal insults, can you? Reminds me of someone else.

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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:10 PM   #3390
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
They kept in touch afterwards. The only reason he was caught and jailed was because police found his details on her phone contacts. ('Your phone, his details'.)

What do you want me to call him, her co-fornicator..?
False. They did not keep in touch. That is a false story that originated on Radaronline and then subsequently made it's way to the Daily Mail, the Mirror and Giallo who simply repeated what Radaronline had said. "Frederico's" phone number was 389-9647716, taken from the court order to tap his phone. The number may have been in her phone contact list, but there were no calls from or to it according to Knox's phone log. Can you guess why this was never brought up in court? Because there was no contact between them.

Well, if you consider some heavy petting one time as "fornicating" go ahead. But her "boyfriend" he most certainly was not.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:14 PM   #3391
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[quote=Stacyhs;12045084]
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You have it arse over tits. Amazon do not get involved in dispute resolution.

Somebody called Michael B (Becker?) bragged he had a pirated PDF version of Nick's book and offered to send it to anybody who wanted to read it. Howzat for a wilful breach of copyright?




Becker does not confirm "Nick published a direct link to Pruett's timeline". Van der Leek says he quoted Pruett but does not say he linked to her article in Doubt. He only hyperlinked to it in Deceit:



I see you describe Becker as a "fanatical and unhinged" Knox foot soldier. You just can't stop the personal insults, can you? Reminds me of someone else.

I edited my post 12:27. Any particular reason you went to some great length to reproduce a pre-edited version instead, half an hour later?

Please explain why you did this.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:14 PM   #3392
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's his considered opinion and he explains in detail why and how he comes to that opinion.
It may be his opinion but considered, it is not. There is no evidence whatsoever that Knox ever took cocaine. Nothing. But there is forensic evidence that she did not.

It is nothing more than vdL believing something because it fits his guilt bias.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:22 PM   #3393
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[quote=Vixen;12045100]
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post


I edited my post 12:27. Any particular reason you went to some great length to reproduce a pre-edited version instead, half an hour later?

Please explain why you did this.
LOL! All I did was quote what you said by copy and pasting it. I had to go back and look at what you later edited and can see that you took out Michael's last name. I can see why. In fact, I just did the same thing for the same reason you did: it breaks the rules. I went to no "great length" at all. I had just c & p'd it before you edited it and then stepped away for a few minutes before finishing my post. Sheesh. Paranoid much?
Now how about YOU going back and editing your post to me to remove the last name before it gets noticed by the powers that be?

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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:48 PM   #3394
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I'm an independent person in my own right. Nick believes cocaine consumption was a factor in the crime.

All I know about is the hashish, which is not a substance that is associated with violence.

My view of the crime is that it was a sadistic 'thrill killing' and if drugs were involved, they would be as a facilitator, not the trigger. Rather in the same way the WM3 drank beer and whiskey to loosen their inhibitions.

Since I believe the murderers have a personality disorder, the secondary issue of 'what drugs were they on' is not particularly relevant.
The PGP-PR agenda is often confused with cultish behaviour. For the recored, strictly speaking it is not.

But it doesn't help that the PR-spin these folk put on things is based on "beliefs", rather than evidence.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:59 PM   #3395
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
The PGP-PR agenda is often confused with cultish behaviour. For the recored, strictly speaking it is not.

But it doesn't help that the PR-spin these folk put on things is based on "beliefs", rather than evidence.
This reminds me of other beliefs based on no evidence: witches won't sink in water, the earth is the center of the universe, dinosaurs and humans co-existed, people's hearts will explode over 50 mph, and women in tight jeans can't be raped, and there are some "good people" among the neo-Nazis.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 06:58 PM   #3396
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This reminds me of other beliefs based on no evidence: witches won't sink in water, the earth is the center of the universe, dinosaurs and humans co-existed, people's hearts will explode over 50 mph, and women in tight jeans can't be raped, and there are some "good people" among the neo-Nazis.
A pseudonymous poster named Harry Rag used to for years repeatedly post stuff that was neither presented in court nor accepted by any court - similar to Vixen simply reposting that the courts had found that Knox had been present during the crime; when the Marasca-Bruno report from 2 1/2 years ago SPECIFICALLY says that at best the prosecution claims put Knox in the cottage after the crime and in another part of it.

Only in Harry Rag's case for years - years - he roamed the 'net finding news-stories, and he'd blanket the "discussion" thread below the piece with his own cut and paste.

More specifically in his case it was the "mixed-blood" meme and the "there was abundant DNA evidence to convict". Neither were true, but that did not stop him from flooding news-piece comments sections - for years.

Such has been the determined guilt-PR effort. Just repeat, repeat, repeat, and don't even address the postings which show that not even the "merits" courts Vixen says she's citing do not sustain what she's claiming.

Such has been the determined guilt-PR effort.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 07:06 PM   #3397
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
A pseudonymous poster named Harry Rag used to for years repeatedly post stuff that was neither presented in court nor accepted by any court - similar to Vixen simply reposting that the courts had found that Knox had been present during the crime; when the Marasca-Bruno report from 2 1/2 years ago SPECIFICALLY says that at best the prosecution claims put Knox in the cottage after the crime and in another part of it.

Only in Harry Rag's case for years - years - he roamed the 'net finding news-stories, and he'd blanket the "discussion" thread below the piece with his own cut and paste.

More specifically in his case it was the "mixed-blood" meme and the "there was abundant DNA evidence to convict". Neither were true, but that did not stop him from flooding news-piece comments sections - for years.

Such has been the determined guilt-PR effort. Just repeat, repeat, repeat, and don't even address the postings which show that not even the "merits" courts Vixen says she's citing do not sustain what she's claiming.

Such has been the determined guilt-PR effort.
I'm familiar with Harry Rag. I learned to ignore his continual cut and paste posts that he plastered all over comment sections pertaining to the case.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:05 AM   #3398
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[quote=Stacyhs;12045115]
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post

LOL! All I did was quote what you said by copy and pasting it. I had to go back and look at what you later edited and can see that you took out Michael's last name. I can see why. In fact, I just did the same thing for the same reason you did: it breaks the rules. I went to no "great length" at all. I had just c & p'd it before you edited it and then stepped away for a few minutes before finishing my post. Sheesh. Paranoid much?
Now how about YOU going back and editing your post to me to remove the last name before it gets noticed by the powers that be?
No, it's not because 'it breaks the rules', it's called 'manners'.

It was extremely rude of you to unedit someone else's post for mischievous reason.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:08 AM   #3399
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This reminds me of other beliefs based on no evidence: witches won't sink in water, the earth is the center of the universe, dinosaurs and humans co-existed, people's hearts will explode over 50 mph, and women in tight jeans can't be raped, and there are some "good people" among the neo-Nazis.
Then there are the gullible folks who believe psychopaths think and feel the same way as a normal person. Hence, they cannot possibly have committed a murder, is the reasoning, and it must have been a police frame up.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:20 AM   #3400
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
A pseudonymous poster named Harry Rag used to for years repeatedly post stuff that was neither presented in court nor accepted by any court - similar to Vixen simply reposting that the courts had found that Knox had been present during the crime; when the Marasca-Bruno report from 2 1/2 years ago SPECIFICALLY says that at best the prosecution claims put Knox in the cottage after the crime and in another part of it.

Only in Harry Rag's case for years - years - he roamed the 'net finding news-stories, and he'd blanket the "discussion" thread below the piece with his own cut and paste.

More specifically in his case it was the "mixed-blood" meme and the "there was abundant DNA evidence to convict". Neither were true, but that did not stop him from flooding news-piece comments sections - for years.

Such has been the determined guilt-PR effort. Just repeat, repeat, repeat, and don't even address the postings which show that not even the "merits" courts Vixen says she's citing do not sustain what she's claiming.

Such has been the determined guilt-PR effort.
Amanda Knox put herself at the scene, once verbally, within an hour or so after voluntarily arriving at the Questura, when hearing Raff had withdrawn his alibi for her, telling police his initial statement had been a 'sack of ****', and twice more in writing by her own hand.

Her footprints in Mez' blood is highlighted by luminol. Her DNA is mixed in with Mez' DNA in the bathroom and in Filomena's room, and in one of the luminol highlighted footprint.

Oh, don't tell us: the luminol is all wrong.
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