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Tags crickets , Cuba conspiracies , Cuba incidents , havana syndrome , mass hysteria , microwave weapons , sonic weapons , US-Cuba relations

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Old 14th December 2021, 11:12 AM   #1161
dann
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Brand new article about the 'syndrome', short and remarkably to the point, as to be expected when the author, Dr Christian Jarrett, is a cognitive neuroscientist and science writer:

Quote:
... in 2018, a group of researchers at the University of Pennsylvania reported that the results of brain scans they’d performed on 21 former US Cuba-based staff who’d experienced the neurological symptoms showed no significant abnormalities.

When physical symptoms are experienced in the absence of any identifiable physical cause, such as a virus – and especially when the symptoms show signs of contagiousness, first appearing in one person and then appearing in others with whom they are in close contact – then one plausible explanation is mass psychogenic illness. This means the ultimate cause of the illness is people’s beliefs, which then ‘infect’ others, potentially leading to a mass outbreak. Some experts argue controversially that this is the most likely cause of Havana Syndrome.

Mass psychogenic illness has a few key components. The first is that a set of similar health symptoms emerges among a group of people who are in close contact; the second is that it often occurs in a context of intense stress or anxiety; and finally, to be confirmed as psychogenic, there must be an absence of any known ongoing organic cause, such as a virus, bacteria, poison or cutting-edge sonic weaponry.
What is causing Havana Syndrome, the mysterious illness that has struck hundreds of US diplomats? (BBC Science Focus, Dec 14, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 16th December 2021, 04:04 AM   #1162
dann
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Quote:
... the evolving effort to deal with the episodes, which have spanned the globe and generated fears of stealth foreign attacks, is complicated by officials’ inability to establish a clear diagnosis for a spate of symptoms that while sometimes debilitating are also common, and to identify who or what is causing them.
Officials have detected no patterns among apparent victims in their effort to better understand and attribute the incidents, despite an extensive, ongoing investigation by the government, which includes the CIA and other agencies, according to officials. And, deepening the mystery, most of those who do report symptoms — labeled anomalous health incidents (AHI) by the government — turn out to have some other identifiable condition.
Unanswered questions loom over Biden administration push to strengthen ‘Havana Syndrome’ response (Washington Post, Dec 15, 2021)

Yes, it is very hard to come up with a coherent diagnosis when the one that makes sense is frowned upon and may cost you your job as a medical investigator.

Quote:
“In a significant majority of cases where individuals have come forward with symptoms, they can be attributed to some particular illness or condition, or they’re reporting out of an abundance of caution and the symptoms do not meet AHI criteria,” said a person familiar with the matter, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive topic.
(...)
Officials are also seeking to better educate medical staffers at missions worldwide, instructing them to be receptive to potential victims’ experiences — and they stress that skepticism is no longer the norm.
(...)
The new law references “qualifying injuries to the brain,” even though administration experts say they do not currently have proof that the mysterious ailments are brain injuries.
“That’s one of the big challenges we have,” a State Department official said. “There’s no one test where you say, ‘Aha! This is an AHI. I can see this on a scan.’”

That really needed to be be made clear!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 16th December 2021 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 16th December 2021, 04:53 AM   #1163
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Quote:
Senator Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) joins Andrea Mitchell to discuss how the Biden administration is addressing to the needs of more than 200 victims of Havana Syndrome. “It's important for us to keep a focus on this not just to make sure that the people who were attacked, get the help they need, but also to find out who's responsible, how they're doing it and put an end to it,” says Sen. Shaheen.
Sen. Shaheen: State Dept. needs to ‘find out who is responsible’ for Havana Syndrome (MSNBC, Dec 15, 2021)

This one's pretty easy, Shaheen: You are!
And so are your colleagues Marco Rubio and Susan Collins, among others.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 16th December 2021, 11:48 AM   #1164
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I assume that this is just same old, same old, and that the 'cross-functional team' is not yet another commission. And I think that the 'Interagency Coordinator for Anomalous Health Incidents' has already been instated to replace Pamela Spratlen, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they actually hope that having more people coordinate new investigations is the way to come up with proof that Putin has been attacking U.S. agents and diplomats with ray guns:

Quote:
Havana Syndrome
Lawmakers are also taking an interest in Havana Syndrome, the mysterious ailment that's plagued US government officials and diplomats overseas in places like Cuba, Austria and Russia.
People seemingly afflicted by 'Havana Syndrome' have reported symptoms like nausea, vertigo, hearing and sight issues and a ringing of the ears known as tinnitus.
The 2022 NDAA orders Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin to create a 'cross-functional team' to examine military-related cases of Havana Syndrome - referred to in the text and in formal settings as 'anomalous health incidents,' or AHI.
It also calls on Biden to appoint a 'Interagency Coordinator for Anomalous Health Incidents' dedicated to the matter.

US intelligence officials still haven't released an official explanation for what is sickening dozens of Americans stationed overseas, though one theory involves targeted 'microwave' attacks from Russia.
However, the explanation lacks evidence in some of the reported cases and the intel community has not even been able to confirm they were attacks in the first place.
If progressives want to influence defense they need to get on the committees': Democrats are reeling after coming away from negotiations empty handed while Republicans secured a $25billion boost (Daily Mail, Dec 16, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 19th December 2021, 01:56 PM   #1165
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Warmongering, pure and simple

Media Bias Fact Check says that National Review (NR) is "mostly factual" but with a right-wing bias. The latter is true, but the new article about the 'Havana Syndrome', Is Russia Inflicting Brain Damage on CIA Officers and Diplomats? (NR, Dec 19, 2021), doesn't concern itself with facts.

At first, the 'syndrome' is described as "another ominous scheme that may bear Moscow’s fingerprints." And of course, it may, so why mention that not one single 'fingerprint', Russian or otherwise, has been found so far?

Then Cuba, "apparently served as Russia’s accomplice in targeting U.S. and Canadian officials stationed on the island," another idea that also doesn't have one single fact to back it up.

And according to NR, it's not that the White House has no evidence that makes it seem likely that Russia or Cuba has done anything to harm U.S. diplomats and agents. In fact, nothing at all has been established about the cause of the so-called anomalous health incidents (AHI). But the NR can tell us that Washington just "is not yet prepared to acknowledge the cause," which, of course, is a bit different from not having found any cause.

But one thing is certain, in spite of no factual evidence: AHIs are "an innocuous term that masks the brutal reality of these deliberate and ongoing attacks."

And now that it has been established without any reference to facts that AHIs are the result of attacks, the NR comes up with imaginary facts as its reference: "The attacks, the (NAS) report added, were the result of “directed” and “pulsed” energy, meaning the victims were specifically targeted."

Bad and unsubstantiated as the NAS report was, it never said this. This is a very obvious lie published by this allegedly "mostly factual" magazine, and to make it worse, the article calls the alleged NAS findings, "this well-researched and unambiguous conclusion by experts."

The NAS report isn't unambiguous. It favors one of many hypotheses but never gets anywhere close to any "unambiguous conclusion". And David Relman, the leader of the NAS group, has recently expressed even more doubts about their findings. (See the quotation from the Salon article, Oct 21, 2021, in post 1050.)

But why worry about facts and truths when other things are so much more important?

"Let’s hope that protracted debate about sufficiency of evidence does not delay the moment of truth and accountability."
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 20th December 2021, 10:30 AM   #1166
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
At first, the 'syndrome' is described as "another ominous scheme that may bear Moscow’s fingerprints." And of course, it may, so why mention that not one single 'fingerprint', Russian or otherwise, has been found so far?
That is the fingerprint: the Russians are so sophisticated that their fingerprint is that there is no fingerprint …
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Old 20th December 2021, 11:06 AM   #1167
dann
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
That is the fingerprint: the Russians are so sophisticated that their fingerprint is that there is no fingerprint …

Indeed! And you reach "the moment of truth and accountability" so much faster when you don't let yourself be bothered by minor details like "sufficiency of evidence" ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd December 2021, 03:46 PM   #1168
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Could You Benefit from Filing a 'Havana Syndrome' Energy Attack Injury Claim?

I bet this won't slow down the growing number of new cases. I think it's the Omicron version of the 'syndrome':

Quote:
"Could You Benefit from Filing a 'Havana Syndrome' Energy Attack Injury Claim?" reads an advertisement from one law firm, Sullo & Sullo of Houston. "It could be in your best interests to speak to an experienced Havana Syndrome energy attack injury lawyer."
Legal, financial fights mount as 'Havana Syndrome' goes unsolved (NBC News, Dec 22, 2021)
The article includes a video, 25:19 min.

"Fighting an Invisible Enemy: The Voices of Havana Syndrome" will stream on NBC News NOW on Friday, Dec. 24, at 4 p.m. ET. and be available on Peacock on Dec. 27.


ETA: I just finished watching the NBC News video, and I am sure that it will contribute to creating more 'Havana Syndrome' sufferers.
I have already mentioned the Danish case of the girls vaccinated against HPV as the largest case of mass psychogenic illness in Denmark that I am familiar with. It gained momentum when a TV channel, TV2.dk aired the documentary De Vaccinerede Piger – Syge og Svigtede', i.e. 'The Vaccinated Girls - Sick and Abandoned'. It showed the girls, had them talk about their suffering, and let the people who believed them described how they had been let down by the health-care system. The health-care workers who believed the girls were portrayed as heroes who came to the rescue of the poor girls.

It took years to convince the general public that the girls who had actual ailments didn't get them from the vaccines and that the majority of the girls suffered from mass psychogenic illness.

This new video from NBC News reminds me of the Danish documentary, and there is no doubt that it will contribute to the damage that has already been done with the story of the 'Havana Syndrome' in the USA.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 22nd December 2021 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 23rd December 2021, 03:02 AM   #1169
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Exclusive: ‘Havana Syndrome’ victim speaks out - CLIP 12/22/21 (NBC Nightly News)
But unfortunately, "This video is not available in your location."
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd December 2021, 10:14 AM   #1170
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This appears to be the exact same video as the one attached to the NBC News article mentioned in post 1168, Legal, financial fights mount as 'Havana Syndrome' goes unsolved (NBC News, Dec 22, 2021), in case any of you couldn't access it:

Fighting An Invisible Enemy: The Voices Of Havana Syndrome
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd December 2021, 11:52 PM   #1171
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I must admit I rarely peek in here and that I really don't understand the interest at this point, sans some new scientific breakthrough. Conspiracy Theory forum maybe?
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Old 24th December 2021, 01:37 AM   #1172
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My title for the thread was Alien Attack? Mass Hysteria? Conspiracy?

I you had peeked in here more often, you would have noticed that the story is still evolving. You would also have noticed that the U.S. government and the CIA take this particular conspiracy theory very seriously as do most of the mainstream news outlets.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th December 2021, 04:57 AM   #1173
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I have already mentioned Suzanne O'Sullivan's book about mass psychogenic illness, The Sleeping Beauties: And Other Stories of Mystery Illness, in (post 1031).

In a new review, Mystery Illnesses Writ Large (Los Angeles Review of Books, Dec 24, 2021), Jeff Wheelwright, author of The Irritable Heart: The Medical Mystery of the Gulf War, writes:

Quote:
Havana syndrome, in which US and Canadian diplomatic personnel feared they had been attacked by a sonic weapon wielded by the Cuban government, provides an interesting and unusual case because it involved a medically sophisticated population. Symptoms, shared by men and women alike, include headaches, dizziness, memory problems, and hearing issues. A crucial factor, according to O’Sullivan, is that one of the American medical researchers on the scene had a military background, which led him to associate the health complaints in and around the US embassy with the traumatic brain injuries (TBI) that occurred in the blast zones of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. TBI itself was a slippery diagnostic entity, and at any rate was the wrong tack to take, she maintains. It was biologically implausible to attribute the symptoms in Havana to the impact of sound waves or microwaves. For one thing, such weapons would have burned the skin.

Commenting on a 2018 paper in the Journal of the American Medical Association, O’Sullivan writes, “Despite the paper’s emphatic conclusion pointing to a brain injury, none of the tests described in the JAMA paper actually proved that: the brain scans were all normal.” More likely, political pressures and stressful working conditions were to blame for Havana syndrome. “As is often heard said in medical circles, ‘When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.’ Functional disorders are common. Sonic weapons are not. How was an everyday diagnosis sidelined for one that many thought impossible?” That the Havana symptoms have since been reported at other American missions only strengthens O’Sullivan’s argument.

Highly recommended! (Both the book and the review)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th December 2021, 03:56 PM   #1174
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A reader's letter about the article in The Nation mentioned in post 1105, The Secrets of the So-Called “Havana Syndrome”:
Letters From the January 10/17, 2021, Issue: Russiagate redux?… Hope for defund… Occupy’s lessons… (The Nation, Dec 25, 2021)

The reader thinks that the author of the article "Kornbluh even suggests that the most likely culprit in this case is (you guessed it) Russia."
I don't think Korbluh actually suggests this. He reports what other people think, and the article also mentions mass psychogenic illness and the fact that "information has been restricted and heavily censored."
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th December 2021, 04:15 PM   #1175
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The 'Havana Syndrome' seems to be a great inspiration for people who imagine that they themselves are being attacked by rays meant to harm them, control their minds and cause depopulation. Somehow it is also supposed to be connected to the jabs, but I only watched the first eight minutes (of 59:25!):

State Department Official Urges Congress to Take Action on Havana Syndrome (Dec 23, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 26th December 2021 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 28th December 2021, 12:31 PM   #1176
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Recognition for atomic veterans, Havana Syndrome included in defense bill (Augusta Free Press, Dec 27, 2021)
Biden signs off on $30 million in funding for victims of Havana Syndrome, the mysterious illness officials believe is caused by directed-energy attacks (Business Insider, Dec 28, 2021)

Quote:
HAVANA Act of 2021
In 2021, reports of the Havana Syndrome began to gain more attention from government officials. Some U.S. diplomatic, intelligence, and other government officials reported unusual cognitive and neurological issues during overseas assignments. The mysterious phenomenon was first reported in 2016, and reports mostly came from individuals working in Cuba, according to the bill.
The bill authorized multiple government agencies to compensate government workers for brain injuries. It passed the Senate with unanimous consent and the House with 427 votes. Biden signed the bill on Oct. 8.
Seven notable pieces of bipartisan legislation in 2021 (Washington Examiner, Dec 25, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 29th December 2021, 10:53 AM   #1177
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This one is from July 2021, but I hadn't noticed this interview with Clifford Saper before. He was one of the people involved with the NAS report. His claim is that 'Havana Syndrome' consists of a "core syndrome", which is when people hear and feel the 'attack', followed by the symptoms that makes them see health-care professionals, i.e. dizziness, headaches, nausea etc.
He doesn't mention the recordings of the sound, which makes his idea of microwave attacks extremely unlikely. He would, of course, also have to explain why other researchers analyzed those recordings and determined that the sounds came from crickets.

Quote:
In the first segment, Dr. Alex Menze talks with Dr. Clifford Saper about Havana Syndrome and recent attacks on American diplomats.
Illness in Overseas U.S. Embassies Employees (Neurology Podcast, July 12, 2021)
The first segment is 18 minutes long.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 29th December 2021, 11:07 AM   #1178
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Quote:
What’s causing Havana syndrome? Where are the UFOs coming from? CBS News National Security Correspondent David Martin predicts one these two mysteries will be solved in 2022.
David Martin's 2022 prediction (Face the Nation of Twitter, Dec 26, 2021 - short clip, 0:51 min)

That one's pretty easy since the 'Havana Syndrome' has already been solved. The only problem is that the State Department, the CIA and the Senate can't come to terms with the explanation.

The tinfoilers love the clip from Face the Nation.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 1st January 2022, 11:28 AM   #1179
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Mark Lenzi's actual complaint to the United States District Court Eastern District of Virginia, Dec 8, 2021, pdf, 46 pages.

Found at:
Quote:
ALEXANDRIA, Va. — A State Department official claims he was reassigned to a new job that doesn’t match his skillset after speaking out about how he and his family were stationed in China when they began suffering symptoms of what is now called Havana Syndrome, including memory loss, headaches and sleeplessness.
Havana Syndrome (Courthouse News Service, Jan 1, 2022)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 5th January 2022, 09:55 AM   #1180
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The author of the article, James Schumaker, worked as an ambassador's aid in Moscow in the late 1970s, and in 1985 he was tested positive for chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL).
He doesn't say that this was caused by the microwave radiation at the embassy at the time, but the secrecy of the situation and the lack of transparency naturally made embassy workers very suspicious. They felt that they couldn't trust the U.S. government about this:

Quote:
All in all, many people in Moscow were agitated and offended by what appeared to be efforts to sweep the whole controversy under the rug. Moscow staffers tended to be a little overwrought in any case, due to the unique pressures of work and life in Moscow, and the efforts of the State Department to assuage their concerns were viewed with extreme suspicion. The clincher for many of them was the unusual incidence of illness on the part of American ambassadors stationed in Moscow. In an article in The New Yorker on Dec. 20, 1976 (“A Reporter at Large, Microwaves–II”, Paul Brodeur reported that not only had two recent American ambassadors to Moscow died of cancer (Llewellyn “Tommy” Thompson and Charles “Chip” Bohlen), but then-Ambassador Walter Stoessel was suffering from a severe blood disorder (Ambassador Stoessel eventually died of leukemia in 1986). To most Moscow staffers, it just seemed like too much of a coincidence.
(...)
I have often wondered how many others have faced similar unexpected medical issues over the past few decades, and whether Moscow Signal was to blame. Many Moscow veterans from the 1960s through the 1980s are already gone, but a substantial number remain. Like the current victims of Havana syndrome, Moscow Signal veterans also deserve definitive answers to the questions that were raised in their time but subsequently ignored.
Before Havana Syndrome, There Was Moscow Signal (AFSA, the Foreign Service Journal Jan-Feb 2022, Jan 4, 2022)

I just finished reading Suzanne O'Sullivan's book The Sleeping Beauties and Other Stories of Mystery Illness. I read the chapter about the 'Havana Syndrome', "Horses Not Zebras" when I got it, but seeing it in the context of the other stories about mass psychogenic illness (MPI) makes it so much more obvious how important the issue of distrust in the (public health) authorities is for the development of MPI, be it in the Miskito community in Nicaragua, the immigrant community in Sweden, among students at Le Roy and their parents in New York or in the close-knit community of secret agents and diplomats at the U.S. embassy in Havana, Cuba.
The latter are already suspicious of the authorities of the country they are working in (and against), and it only serves to make matters worse when the the facts concerning their health are being kept secret by their own government.
Other things that contribute to creating MPIs are health authorities (whether real or fake) with an agenda and sensationalist media reports.
As a Dane, it is amazing to see the many similarities between the HPV-vaccine scare among girls in such diverse environments as internet-connected Denmark and very isolated communities in Latin America.

Anyway, James Schumaker's disease is entirely physiological, i.e. not an MPI, and he doesn't claim that he is the victim of a Russian microwave attack, but his story makes it very obvious how people might come to think so due to the secrecy surrounding their cases: "I have often wondered ..."
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Old 9th January 2022, 04:01 PM   #1181
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It's not just for EHS sufferers anymore

Right-wing extremists and covidiots have joined the battle against 'Havana Syndrome':

Quote:
At the event in Stockton, Aguilar spoke through a bullhorn outside, and later at the microphone inside, asking the board to “challenge the state’s mandates.” Aguilar was immediately followed at the microphone by two more parents, who claimed radiofrequency radiation from computers used for distance learning poisoned their children and possibly gave them a case of “Havana Syndrome,” a mysterious brain ailment reported by many diplomats and U.S. intelligence officers.
Minutes after that, the Board of Education agreed to push back against California’s still-pending vaccination mandate. The protesters gave the school board a standing ovation.
From the Capitol to the city council: How extremism in the U.S. shifted after Jan. 6 (NBC News, Jan 3, 2022)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 11th January 2022, 11:44 AM   #1182
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Sonic Attacks - the Norwegian version

LYDENE SOM DRIVER OSS TIL VANVIDD - Nils ville sende politiet etter isbilen (Klikk.no, Nov 11, 2021)
The sounds that drive us nuts - Nils wanted to call the police on the ice-cream truck
(In Norwegian, sorry!)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th January 2022, 05:01 PM   #1183
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'Havana syndrome': US baffled after new cases in Europe

Four more US diplomats working in Geneva and Paris have fallen ill with a suspected neurological illness known as "Havana syndrome", US media report.
Three diplomats became sick in the Swiss city and one in the French capital last summer, with some 200 people affected over five years.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the American government was working to get to the bottom of the mystery.

There are fears an adversary may have targeted diplomats with microwaves.
Mr Blinken said the issue had been raised with Russia but no determination had been made.

Havana syndrome first emerged in Cuba in 2016 and has affected US diplomats, spies, officials and family members, as well as a number of Canadian diplomatic staff deployed in Cuba.
Some of the people who experienced the syndrome were left with dizziness and fatigue for months. 
The latest cases include one person who was evacuated from Switzerland to the US for treatment, media reports say.

Mr Blinken told MSNBC in an interview that he had met state department employees around the world who had described their illnesses and how their lives had been disrupted.
People, he said, had been "directly and powerfully affected".
"To date, we don't know exactly what's happened and we don't know exactly who is responsible," he told the broadcaster.
"We are working overtime across the entire government to get to the bottom of what happened, who's responsible," he said.

Russia, China and the US itself are all said to have researched microwaves for military purposes but Moscow has dismissed accusations it used "microwave weapons" against US missions as "fanciful hypotheses".
A more innocent, but also unproven, theory is that those who got sick suffered from a mass condition brought on by some stressful underlying situation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59986297
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Old 13th January 2022, 08:20 PM   #1184
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"In 2020, around 19.77 million people were working for state and local governments in the United States. This is much higher than the number of federal government (civilian) employees, which stood at about 2.93 million people in that year."

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ees-in-the-us/

I think the figure is 5% of people have a mental illness at any one time.

A few hundred with Havana Delusion is entirely predictable.

If the Russians had weapons that actually worked, they could do so much more damage than this.
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Old 14th January 2022, 12:53 AM   #1185
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Considering that millions of people have been and still are being encouraged by the U.S. government to believe that they are under attack, I am surprised that it is still only a few hundred. And considering that some of them have believed this since 2016, it will be very difficult to convince them otherwise.

Many of those people will continue to believe this till their dying day when they die, not of but with the 'Havana Syndrome'.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th January 2022, 01:00 AM   #1186
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Considering that millions of people have been and still are being encouraged by the U.S. government to believe that they are under attack, I am surprised that it is still only a few hundred. And considering that some of them have believed this since 2016, it will be very difficult to convince them otherwise.

Many of those people will continue to believe this till their dying day when they die, not of but with the 'Havana Syndrome'.
Does "Havana Syndrome" also cause Morgellons ?
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Old 14th January 2022, 02:56 AM   #1187
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Does "Havana Syndrome" also cause Morgellons ?

No, I have not seen Morgellons mentioned in connection with 'Havana Syndrome'. The origin story of 'Havana Syndrome', i.e. sonic attacks, would not make it seem likely to people that skin lesions would occur in that context.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th January 2022, 03:11 AM   #1188
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Mainly of interest to Swedes and other Scandinavians:
The Swedish non-fiction program Utrikesbyrån had an episode about Havanasyndromet on Nov 9, 2021 (29 min. in Swedish with Swedish subtitles).
The three Swedish experts all believed the story about U.S. diplomats and CIA agents having been the victims of enemy attacks.
https://forum.vof.se/viewtopic.php?p=747412#p747412
There is a short clip with Robert Baloh (at 13:05) in English.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th January 2022, 03:14 AM   #1189
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, I have not seen Morgellons mentioned in connection with 'Havana Syndrome'. The origin story of 'Havana Syndrome', i.e. sonic attacks, would not make it seem likely to people that skin lesions would occur in that context.
I apologise for my pathetic attempt a mockery and levity.
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Old 14th January 2022, 03:53 AM   #1190
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It is sometimes difficult to take it seriously!

At least, Blinken seems to have become more and more hesitant about describing the AHIs as attacks:

Secretary of State Antony Blinken joins Morning Joe to discuss new reports of U.S. diplomats struck with suspected 'Havana Syndrome' and why he says those responsible will suffer 'severe consequences.' (MSNBC, Jan 13, 2022)
Quote:
QUESTION: So given the lack of answers as we’re searching for where this is coming from, does the United States validate that this is some sort of attack on our diplomats?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: There is no doubt in my mind that people have been directly and powerfully affected. I’ve talked to them. I’ve listened to them. I’ve heard them. I’ve seen them. But we’ve got to get to the bottom of exactly what happened and who might be responsible, and that’s what we’re determined to do. And as I said, we’ve got virtually the entire government working on this at the President’s instructions. We’re not there yet, but we will get there. We will figure this out. Meanwhile, we have to do what we can to protect people and, as I said, care for them.
Secretary Antony J. Blinken with Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinksi, and Willie Geist of Morning Joe on MSNBC (MSNBC, Jan 13, 2022)

U.S. Diplomats in Geneva, Paris Struck with Suspected 'Havana Syndrome' (WSJ, Jan 13, 2022)

Quote:
The Wall Street Journal reported on ThursdayExternal link that at least three Americans serving at the US consulate in Geneva were suspected to have been afflicted by the syndrome last summer, which the Biden administration has dubbed an “anomalous health incident”.
“At least one of those officials was medevaced [evacuated by air] from Switzerland to the US for treatment,” it wrote.
In Paris, senior embassy officials informed diplomats via email about a suspected case, the officials said.
The paper said the suspected attacks were reported internally last summer to officials in the two cities and eventually to the State Department in Washington.
US diplomats in Geneva and Paris allegedly hit by ‘Havana Syndrome’ (SwissInfo.ch, Jan 14, 2022)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 14th January 2022 at 03:54 AM.
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Old 14th January 2022, 03:24 PM   #1191
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If you live near Los Alamos ...
Quote:
In his talk, Hull will present background information on what the U.S. government initially referred to as “an anomalous health incident” in 2016 that has since become known as the “Havana Syndrome”.
Hull will discuss similar incidents reported by CIA, State Department and military personnel across six continents and the reported health symptoms, results of a CDC health study and “Havana Act of 2021”. He also will present information provided by CIA and State Department “victims” who have come out in public to plea their cases.
Hull will address studies and published articles – both the pro and con – on whether this was an intentional attack by a foreign government.
Military Order Of The World Wars Features Presentation By Bob Hull On Havana Syndrome Tuesday Jan. 18 (Los Alamos Daily Post, Jan 14, 2022)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th January 2022, 12:58 PM   #1192
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Blinken: US still unsure who is behind Havana Syndrome cases (AlJazeera, Jan 13, 2022)

Of course, the U.S. is still unsure. After all, the victims are people with prestigious jobs working for the government. It they had been high-school girls in, say, Le Roy, N.Y., the alleged mystery (or AHIs) would have been solved in a couple of months and long forgotten.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old Today, 05:12 AM   #1193
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Quote:
More than five years on, and the so-called Havana Syndrome is back with us.
Four American diplomats have fallen sick this week with suspected cases of the Syndrome in Paris and Geneva.
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken says the federal government is working to identify the illness and who or what might be behind it.
The mystery condition has affected about 200 diplomats and their family members since 2016.
Symptoms include migraines, nausea, memory lapses and dizziness
On Inside Story, an in-depth discussion on the causes of this syndrome.

Presenter: Peter Dobbie
Guests:
Robert Bartholomew, honorary senior lecturer in the department of psychological medicine at the University of Auckland. He is also co-author of 'Havana Syndrome: Mass Psychogenic Illness and the Real Story Behind the Embassy Mystery and Hysteria'.
Natasha Lindstaedt, author and specialist on U.S. foreign policy. She is social sciences deputy dean at the University of Essex.
Glenn Carle, career CIA officer and former deputy national intelligence officer.
Who or What is behind Havana Syndrome? | Inside Story (AlJazeera on YouTube, Jan 14, 2022)
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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When asked about the 'Havana Syndrome', "what might it be?", Glenn Carl answers,"Well, the immediate thought, I think of all of my colleagues and the institutions involved in foreign policy, is that the Russians are the most likely ones to have done this kind of activity."

When asked "Has there been anything like this in the past?", Natasha Linstaedt, at first, answers that "we have no idea what's really causing this," "there is nothing like this where we don't really even know what the diagnosis is, who is doing it, or what it actually is ... and we don't even know it it's something real."

It will come as no surprise to the followers of this thread that Robert Bartholomew thinks that the cause of the 'syndrome' is mass psychogenic illness. He points out that Pamela Spratlen "was forced to resign" because she would rule out MPI as a possible (!) cause.

The moderator objects to this, saying that the 'Havana Syndrome' sufferers are "career diplomats, we're talking about people who are intelligent, well-travelled, they're well-educated people, they're presumably mature, and they're in their 40s, their 50s. They don't tear up when they're watching Hallmark TV, you know, they don't tear up when they're watching a chick-flick, a girly movie, when they're watching something that put tugs at the heartstrings."

It is possible that the moderator's ridiculous objection - How would he even know how diplomats and CIA agents respond to Hallmark chick-flicks? - is merely meant as an opportunity for Bartholomew to explain that being sentimental has nothing whatsoever to do with MPI. Even Glenn Carl objects to the idea that spies and diplomats are utterly heartless, unsentimental creatures.

The moderator himself again objects to the idea of MPIs because the sufferers are "200 people who have operated in the upper echelons of the international diplomatic service. It is highly unlikely, surely, that they have character traits that link them and they are given to behaving in a way where they clearly lack emotional equilibrium, and they believe that they have a certain set of symptoms so therefore they carry on displaying those symptoms even when they are ending up working part-time or they have been retired from that job early."

He thus makes it obvious that he has no idea what MPI is since he thinks that only people with very particular personality traits fall victim to it and that it stops immediately when you no longer are in the setting where you thought that you were subjected to whatever you have been led to believe is the cause of your symptoms.
The narrative of the 'Havana Syndrome' is ongoing, and the sufferers are still encouraged to believe that they are the victims of an attack perpetrated by Russia.

Glenn Carl agrees with the moderator and adds that "as I understand it, independent of any reports of, quote, Havana Syndrome having occurred, that people reported this phenomenon separately and without knowledge of it having occurred elsewhere. So someone in Paris felt these symptoms and said, 'Hey, my brain is not working right', and someone in Havana said, 'I'm suffering from x or ', and they were independent of each other, not a copycat of a subliminally influenced event, so far as I understand it."

I don't think that his reservation "as understand it" twice makes up for the fact that, at this point, it is impossible to imagine that any U.S. diplomat or spy anywhere in the world is unaware of the 'Havana Syndrome' and doesn't immediately consider it as a possible cause of their 'brain not working right' or symptoms 'x or y'. They have not only heard the rumors, they have been explicitly warned and encouraged by the U.S. government to report all x, y or z symptoms!

The moderator objects to the idea of directed microwave energy weapons because of the size that such a weapon would have to have. He finds a sonic weapon more likely because "the London authorities had plans or a conversation to use it around about the Olympics in 2012 for crowd control purposes."
He doesn't seem to understand that sonics would not cause brain damage.

When asked to comment on this, Natasha Lindstaedt says that "we don't completely understand what technology is being used, and we can't rule out that it could be possible it's a technology that we haven't discovered yet," thus implying that, in spite of all the "unknowns", the 'syndrome' must be caused by some kind of technology.
"But one thing we do know, the victims have reported hearing a sound, a loud sound in their head, before they started having problems. So there may be something connected to that that needs to be better explored, that it's not just something in their head, that it was actually a common stream amongst the victims."

This is a very good example of how the story about the 'Havana Syndrome', and thus the 'syndrome' itself, is evolving:
Back in 2017, it was described as an actual sound, not as "something in their heads." And AP's release of the first recording of the sound (YouTube, Oct 12, 2017) made it obvious that this was not merely "in their heads."
But when researchers pointed out that it was a recording of "lovelorn crickets" and not of a sonic weapon, it was necessary to come up with another explanation in order to justify the idea that 'Havana Syndrome' is caused by an attack. The solution was the Frey effect caused by a a directed microwave energy weapon, which would make a sound-like phenomenon occur inside people's heads. That the Frey effect would never be recordable as sound on a cellphone or on any other recording device contradicts this idea, but conspiracy nuts never worry about contradictions or thus aren't bothered by cognitive dissonance.

Natasha Lindstaedt, the "specialist on U.S. foreign policy," then asks the cui bono question as her argument for making Russia responsible for the 'syndrome', implying that it benefits Russia to destroy the U.S.-Cuban diplomatic relations as if Trump and Biden had no interest in destaffing the U.S. embassy in Havana, which the 'Havana Syndrome' served to justify.

The moderator calls the cancer deaths of three US ambassadors to Moscow since the 60s (!) "statistically ... highly unlikely," which it isn't.
He then says that "Some of the Canadians that have been directly affected by something have been transported from Ottawa to Halifax, Nova Scotia. They have been medically tested, and it's been found that the left-hand side of their brain does not connect properly with right-hand side of their brain. That's a matter of medical fact. On top of that, some of the Canadians (...) are displaying the early symptoms of Parkinson's, Alzheimer's or general dementia. (...) Statistically, that is highly unlikely. And they had no conversation with the Americans who were affected by this."

This is simply not true, which Bartholomew tells him. And it has been mentioned several times in this thread: Patient Zero, a CIA agent in Havana, was actively campaigning for the 'Havana Syndrome' idea, both among U.S. embassy staff and their Canadian colleagues. It is frustrating that the obvious lie persists that this was not the case, i.e. that the 'Havana Syndrome' sufferers came down with the 'syndrome' independently of each other. It wasn't the case in Havana, and it could not possibly have been the case in the rest of the world since then!

How fictitious the story of the 'Havana Syndrome' is becomes even more obvious at the end of the program:

Quote:
Moderator: Natasha, the very last word to you, in the next 30 seconds of the program: If this is a weapon, it is an amazing weapon, and I use the word 'amazing' advisedly, the next iteration of this weapon, what might it be capable of doing?

Natasha Lindstaedt: I think that's the scary thing, the unknown, it might be capable of being unleashed on a larger population, and that would really disable a big portion of the public if they're able to lease it on a much greater part of the population. And I think that's one of the unknowns that makes this so incredibly scary because we have people retiring from their jobs that they were really passionate about because they have been so disabled by this mysterious syndrome.

And that is not entirely false: Nothing is more scary than imaginary unknowns! Ask any director of horror movies!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old Today, 09:47 AM   #1194
dann
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I didn't notice this Cuban video about the 'Havana Syndrome' till now. Google and YouTube do their utmost to make it go unnoticed, which is probably the reason why it only has 86 views so far.
It is a short (9:37 min.) interview in English with Dr. Mitchell Valdés-Sosa, director general of the Cuban Neuroscience Center and head of the Cuban Committee of Experts investigating the 'Havana Syndrome'.

No evidence Havana Syndrome (Radio Habana Cuba on YouTube, Oct 8, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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