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Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , diseases , medical conspiracies

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Old 17th January 2022, 02:03 AM   #961
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Oh thank Odin...

I knew you'd put this fire out in a N Y minute.
Not so fast.
Firstly, it's quite clear (despite MBDK spoiling it!) that you hadn't actually checked this yourself. The next time you accuse someone of 'blindly parroting' what they've read somewhere, remember this: this is exactly what you did.

Next, the Epoch Times, your current source du jour claimed they had done an analysis of these figures, and come up with entirely different- and obviously wrong- figures and conclusions. Now, that analysis was not linked to in the article you posted, which means you didn't check that either and, even if you had, you didn't spot that it was complete *********. Are you now going to approach anything from that source with a considerable pinch of salt or, better yet, stop reading it altogether? If not, why not?

Finally, all of this data, whether from the Epoch Times' interpretation or not, comes from the CDC. Do you now accept the CDC as a reliable source of information? If not, why not?
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Old 17th January 2022, 02:16 AM   #962
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Aaaah, Bubba, back and mentioning Zelenko again, I see.

Any chance you might get round to addressing certain points about this "honest doctor" and his awful (as in very bad indeed and not showing what you or he said it did - I went and actually read it) "research", which I asked about around 2 suspensions ago?
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Old 17th January 2022, 02:23 AM   #963
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Called it.

Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
My guess is that at most it's a piece of data which has been cherry picked and wilfully misrepresented to make it look like it means something it actually doesn't, which is the usual case with the stuff you find.
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Old 17th January 2022, 05:51 AM   #964
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Any sign yet of this totally-not-imaginary, definitely-an-actual-doctor friend of Bubba's?
Looking forward to chatting with him.
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:30 AM   #965
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I think you're being too kind.
I personally think this conversation only happened in Bubba's head.

Of course, Bubba is perfectly free to get his 'doctor friend' to register on this forum, and then we can find out.
How about it, Bubba?
You beat me to it.

I'd love to read these claims from Bubba's "Dr. friend" himself.
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:37 AM   #966
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I'm questioning the narrative. Kind of makes me the opposite of a sheeple, then, doesn't it? A wolfle, perhaps.
Anyway, I thought that's what you wanted, Bubba- people to ask questions and think for themselves?
When you reject an overwhelming scientific consensus, it means you're too smart to be fooled.

When you reject the scientifically contradicted claims of someone who's already been wrong about, well, everything, it means you're a sheep.
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:38 AM   #967
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
In case it escapes you, the take away here is not about the significance of the death rate spike (which is very significant)...The take home prize is that you heard it from me.

Your "sources" are hiding it from you, right now.
We also heard from you that Trump would be back in the White House by now.

How'd that go?
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:42 AM   #968
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
My doctor friend called me back.
Did you tell him we think he doesn't exist? If he keeps calling to talk to you about this, wouldn't he be interested in proving you, a friend, right, when others are calling you a liar?
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:44 AM   #969
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Imaginary friends can seem very real to some people.
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:45 AM   #970
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
What a rousing forum!
Just followed your link and noticed I was the only one there.
Yeah, it tends to taper off during the evening. Right now five are active.

About a dozen years ago there used to be a forum called the James Randi
Educational Foundation forum and it closed. The more liberal minded went
here. Conservatives wound up at the Skeptical Community Forum. And I
think the moderates went to Skeptics Society Forum, I recognize a few of
the names there. I don't know who went to the CFI Forum.

https://www.skepticalcommunity.mu.nu/
https://skepticforum.com
https://forum.centerforinquiry.org
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:46 AM   #971
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
My doctor friend called me back. He said yes, Mercola reported the death rate spike, and Mercola's articles are now available for only a day or two, before being archived, after he was attacked by Biden, (Zuckerberg, Dorsey, google,) for "disinformation"

No matter. Apparently Epoch Times picked it up. You might catch on if you dont double down in denial. Good luck with that.

BTW, you are so far down in the dark, regarding Mercola.!! When you learn the mortality rate spike is for real, and he was the first, or one of the first to post it, about a week ago, while your "sources" hid it from you (and still are hiding it right now)....maybe you will wake the F up.
All you need is Kevin Bacon and you'll really have something here.
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Old 17th January 2022, 10:54 AM   #972
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'd like to know when Bubba's "doctor friend" got their doctorate, from which university, and what their specialty is.
I think I've found him.
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Old 17th January 2022, 12:01 PM   #973
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post

JP Sears is here to help. Here his latest video "The Narrative is Crumbling - 16 Reasons Why"

Let me know if he nailed it (always does) I haven't watched it yet, as I've been busy sharing the news about the mortality spike.


The Narrative is Crumbling - 16 Reasons Why

https://www. youtube .com/ watch?v=D70kZDLGr4Q
JP Sears - "The Clown Prince of Wellness!"
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Old 17th January 2022, 01:30 PM   #974
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The circus is back in town, there's no denying it.
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Old 17th January 2022, 01:39 PM   #975
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more on Dr. Peter McCullough

In an earlier thread several of us discussed Dr. Peter McCullough (Wikipedia entry here). A portion of W.D. Clinger's comment #2309 follows: "After watching the interview and reading most of the other garbage my acquaintance wanted me to read, I replied to her email. She reacted pretty much as you have seen Caroline13 react. She believes Trump can do no wrong, but she believes the vaccines Trump is so proud of developing are a weapon of bioterrorism. She thinks of herself as an ultra-patriot, but insists the US government is lying about the incidence of COVID-19. She tells me Drs McCullough and Gold must know what they're talking about because Gold has academic degrees from the University of Chicago and Stanford, and McCullough is a professor at Baylor University and/or Texas A&M, but she dismisses everything I say because (as she puts it) I'm listening to professors instead of paying attention to what's happening in the real world."

I read a recent interview with Dr. MuCullough in the Epoch Times newspaper, in which he touted hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, among other claims. This induced me to search for other information. I found a refutation of a podcast hosted by Joe Rogan, where he was interviewed for 2 hours and 45 minutes. According to the Health Feedback link I provided, Dr. McCullough is 1 for 18 regarding his claims. Reuters also fact checked this interview. Politifact looked into an earlier interview.

BTW, the last portion of comment #2309 above is another example of mutually contradictory anti-vax arguments being put forward.
EDT
Epoch Times is closely tied in with Falun Gong, according to an article in The Atlantic. IIUC Falun Gong has an anti-medicine bias. If someone else already linked to this article, I will say in advance that I was ninja'd.
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Old 17th January 2022, 03:03 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
When was the last time the usually stable death rate increased an unheard of 15-20% ? ...and why?

What the heck changed in 2021 that would cause overall mortality to jump by approximately 40%?

Through the 3rd quarter of 2021, (correct me if I'm wrong here) overall mortality has spiked about 40% in USA, on average. Apparently the trend continues in the 4th quarter, as those numbers are still in the pipeline.

My doctor friend told me about this. He said he heard that the majority of deaths in the uptick are not classified as covid 19 deaths. He had been telling me for months that doctors have been seeing increasing cases and deaths, across a range of non covid conditions. He said doctors are blaming the covid injections, in private only, for fear of being fired.

If correct, Texas and Nevada deaths are up roughly 50%-60%. In another state, hospitals are seeing dramatic spikes in deaths and hospitalizations for many non covid conditions, while the covid deaths are less than half the 2020 numbers. It seems puzzling.

You guys got any ideas on what could cause this to happen, suddenly, in 2021 ? What changed last year, ?

P.S.

I know you missed me. It's so mutual, and I've been looking forward to returning so you guys can explain this for me, since y'all are so well informed by your awesome sources.
This is a very odd statement here. Most of the conspiracy theorists have been denying the seriousness of Covid by saying the government is faking Covid statistics and attributing everything to it. Now, suddenly, we have the opposite! Now they're minimizing Covid deaths to conceal the real seriousness.

When do you suppose the change occurred? Or is the conspiracy so clever that Covid can be both nothing and everything at once?
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Old 17th January 2022, 03:17 PM   #977
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
This is a very odd statement here. Most of the conspiracy theorists have been denying the seriousness of Covid by saying the government is faking Covid statistics and attributing everything to it. Now, suddenly, we have the opposite! Now they're minimizing Covid deaths to conceal the real seriousness.

When do you suppose the change occurred? Or is the conspiracy so clever that Covid can be both nothing and everything at once?
The technical term for this is "flailing", and usually denotes a lack of focused rational ability. Less formally, it's known as "throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks."
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Old 17th January 2022, 04:12 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
... is the conspiracy so clever that Covid can be both nothing and everything at once?
Bingo.
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Old 17th January 2022, 04:15 PM   #979
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
This is a very odd statement here. Most of the conspiracy theorists have been denying the seriousness of Covid by saying the government is faking Covid statistics and attributing everything to it. Now, suddenly, we have the opposite! Now they're minimizing Covid deaths to conceal the real seriousness.
My take is that Bubba is implying that vaccinations are causing excess deaths while Covid-19, itself, is much less a problem. But I could be wrong. Bubba's comments generally lack detailed specificity.
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Old 17th January 2022, 04:28 PM   #980
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
This is a very odd statement here. Most of the conspiracy theorists have been denying the seriousness of Covid by saying the government is faking Covid statistics and attributing everything to it. Now, suddenly, we have the opposite! Now they're minimizing Covid deaths to conceal the real seriousness.

When do you suppose the change occurred? Or is the conspiracy so clever that Covid can be both nothing and everything at once?
This is the gist of Bubba's claim:

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
My doctor friend told me about this. He said he heard that the majority of deaths in the uptick are not classified as covid 19 deaths. He had been telling me for months that doctors have been seeing increasing cases and deaths, across a range of non covid conditions. He said doctors are blaming the covid injections, in private only, for fear of being fired.
So, he is saying, as is The Epoch Times, the vaccinations are causing the excess deaths. Of course that is patently false, as I proved earlier from their own source material (post #959).

Last edited by MBDK; 17th January 2022 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Aded previous post number.
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Old 17th January 2022, 04:35 PM   #981
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Not sure if anyone has already posted this here, but in this episode of Decoding the Gurus, they suffer through 6 hours of listening to Peter McCullough and Robert Malone to bring an episode that exposes their misinformation, and Rogan's increasingly obvious anti-vaxx agenda...

Quote:
Matt and Chris return to the Joe Rogan-verse much quicker than they would have liked to take a critical eye to two recent episodes (6 more hours!!!) offering controversial takes on Covid 19 and the dangers of vaccines. Yes, that's right more fear mongering, more global conspiracies, and more unrecognised heroes of science that Joe needs to promote to his large audience.

In this case, we have Dr. Robert Malone, the *self-proclaimed* inventor of mRNA vaccines, and Dr. Peter McCullough, a cardiologist who was recently sued by his old hospital for using its name when promoting his covid theories. Both figures are well documented promoters of covid misinformation, including in various appearances on extreme right wing conspiracy sites like Alex Jones' InfoWars.

Matt and Chris are no medical experts nor do they play them on podcasts (if you are looking for a point by point technical/medical debunking, we would recommend following the links at the bottom of these show notes). But what they are very familiar with are modern gurus and conspiracy theorists. So in this episode, after twenty plus episodes of calibrating the Gurometer(TM) with known gurus, they take it for a new test with these two maverick doctors. Applying the well-developed science of Gurometry(TM) to a novel dataset. How do they fare? Guess...

Honestly, this is probably the darkest and most depressing episode we've done. It was not fun and we would really prefer to be talking about something else but here we are. Hopefully we will not be back soon...
Link
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Old 17th January 2022, 04:36 PM   #982
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Yes, gulled by the media he consumes, our interlocutor is attempting to spread the debunked, dangerous disinformation that the vaccines are responsible for excess deaths. As always, he is holding a sack full of ****, ignoring its odor.
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Old 17th January 2022, 04:51 PM   #983
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Yes, gulled by the media he consumes, our interlocutor is attempting to spread the debunked, dangerous disinformation that the vaccines are responsible for excess deaths. As always, he is holding a sack full of ****, ignoring its odor.
He can't smell it, because of his COVID infection (which, he also denies, of course).
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Old 17th January 2022, 05:46 PM   #984
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
About a dozen years ago there used to be a forum called the James Randi
Educational Foundation forum and it closed.
That's not quite true. It was handed over in its entirety to new management, underwent a rebranding, and became the International Skeptics Forum.
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:08 PM   #985
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excess deaths as a function of time

Originally Posted by MBDK View Post
So, he is saying, as is The Epoch Times, the vaccinations are causing the excess deaths. Of course that is patently false, as I proved earlier from their own source material (post #959).
Graphs of excess deaths track closely in time with graphs of deaths ascribed to Covid-19 across many countries. Somewhere I saw a graph that showed how poorly excess deaths tracked with the introduction of the vaccines (it might have been specific to Britain).
EDT
"In the absence of a vaccination program, there would have been approximately 1.1 million additional COVID-19 deaths and more than 10.3 million additional COVID-19 hospitalizations in the U.S. by November 2021." Commonwealthfund.org
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Old 17th January 2022, 06:22 PM   #986
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These are the freakouts we need.

Mexican TV host calls antivaxxers “morons” (reddit.com)
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Old 17th January 2022, 07:17 PM   #987
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That's not quite true. It was handed over in its entirety to new management, underwent a rebranding, and became the International Skeptics Forum.
The part about this being the forum where all the most liberal JREF members ended up is also incorrect. This is actually where all the most attractive members ended up.
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Old 17th January 2022, 07:19 PM   #988
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Yes, gulled by the media he consumes, our interlocutor is attempting to spread the debunked, dangerous disinformation that the vaccines are responsible for excess deaths. As always, he is holding a sack full of ****, ignoring its odor.
He's also got a loaf of Wonder Bread and a butter knife.
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Old 17th January 2022, 07:32 PM   #989
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
The part about this being the forum where all the most liberal JREF members ended up is also incorrect. This is actually where all the most attractive members ended up.
Present company excluded, of course.
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Old 17th January 2022, 07:49 PM   #990
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Only partly related to Corona, but I came across this amusing little snippet, which I hope opens correctly (it's a link to Twitter, which I don't belong to):

https://twitter.com/TifaAuntie/statu...83710533672961
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Old 18th January 2022, 01:14 AM   #991
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A genuine conspiracy by doctor. To experiment on prisoners without their consent.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...droidApp_Other

Quote:
Four inmates at an Arkansas jail have filed a lawsuit against the facility and its doctor after they said they were unknowingly prescribed ivermectin to treat Covid-19 as a form of “medical experimentation” despite US health officials warning that the anti-parasitic drug should not be used for that purpose.

The Arkansas’ chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit on behalf of the men last week against Washington county jail, Washington county sheriff Tim Helder and jail physician Dr. Robert Karas. Last August, Helder revealed that the drug had been prescribed to patients with Covid-19.

“The lawsuit charges the defendants for administering ivermectin to incarcerated individuals without prior informed consent as to the nature, contents, or potential side effects of the drug,” the ACLU said in a statement last week.
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OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
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Old 18th January 2022, 01:54 AM   #992
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
The part about this being the forum where all the most liberal JREF members ended up is also incorrect. This is actually where all the most attractive members ended up.
Rubbish. I'm still posting my best work on the Skeptic Society Forum as a really hot, male, fashion model, skeptic debunker.

You ISF members are the weak water sugary sorbets compared to us full bodied cream SSF skeptics working with Pyrrho the moderator. . .

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Old 18th January 2022, 02:05 AM   #993
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
A genuine conspiracy by doctor. To experiment on prisoners without their consent.
Quote:
Four inmates at an Arkansas jail have filed a lawsuit against the facility and its doctor after they said they were unknowingly prescribed ivermectin to treat Covid-19 as a form of “medical experimentation” despite US health officials warning that the anti-parasitic drug should not be used for that purpose.

The Arkansas’ chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit on behalf of the men last week against Washington county jail, Washington county sheriff Tim Helder and jail physician Dr. Robert Karas. Last August, Helder revealed that the drug had been prescribed to patients with Covid-19.

“The lawsuit charges the defendants for administering ivermectin to incarcerated individuals without prior informed consent as to the nature, contents, or potential side effects of the drug,” the ACLU said in a statement last week.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...droidApp_Other
Do you think this is Bubba's doctor friend?

I'm also waiting for Tippit, Bubba and Childlike Empress to wade in and condemn this incident. People being given dangerous, experimental drugs without their consent? FASCISM! OPPRESSION!!!! COMMUNISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OTHER TERMS FOR THINGS WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND BUT THINK ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 18th January 2022, 05:23 AM   #994
GraculusTheGreenBird
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Oh Bub-baaaaaaaaaa!

Gulled again, like the rest of the conspiracy sheep. You will never learn.
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Old 18th January 2022, 11:13 AM   #995
Hans
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Only partly related to Corona, but I came across this amusing little snippet, which I hope opens correctly (it's a link to Twitter, which I don't belong to):

https://twitter.com/TifaAuntie/statu...83710533672961
great
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Old 18th January 2022, 12:50 PM   #996
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
ETA: 'visa v'? Is that a special kind of credit card?
It's what you use once you've maxed out Visa I to Visa IV buying useless supplements from Alex Jones.
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Old 18th January 2022, 02:06 PM   #997
Paul2
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Only partly related to Corona, but I came across this amusing little snippet, which I hope opens correctly (it's a link to Twitter, which I don't belong to):

https://twitter.com/TifaAuntie/statu...83710533672961
My tradition is to tell my university students at the first class session that we really need smart people because approximately 1/2 of all Americans are below average intelligence.

When we did face-to-face classes, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the class reacted in a way that indicated that they understood the joke. Sigh.
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Old 18th January 2022, 10:51 PM   #998
Tippit
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Do you think this is Bubba's doctor friend?

I'm also waiting for Tippit, Bubba and Childlike Empress to wade in and condemn this incident. People being given dangerous, experimental drugs without their consent? FASCISM! OPPRESSION!!!! COMMUNISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OTHER TERMS FOR THINGS WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND BUT THINK ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I support informed consent and body autonomy at all times, for all people. Ivermectin has been used to successfully treat billions of people, since the 70's:

Ivermectin, ‘Wonder drug’ from Japan: the human use perspective

It also has a well-established safety profile, even at high doses:

Safety of high-dose ivermectin: a systematic review and meta-analysis

It appears that the prisoners survived their Covid infections. They probably would have survived them with or without Ivermectin given the fact that the disease has a 99.76% infection survival rate. Were they harmed by the Ivermectin? If not, the lawsuit seems frivolous, given the non-experimental and safe aspects of the drug. If you're going to argue that the doctor is guilty of malpractice for prescribing it in spite of "US health officials", then that is baseless, since there was apparently no harm done.

The prisoners should have been fully informed and given consent before any medical treatment, but prescribing relatively unharmful treatments in spite of the Orwellian Ministry of Health should not be illegal.
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Old 18th January 2022, 10:54 PM   #999
The Great Zaganza
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Penicillin has successfully been used to treat billions of people, Tippit.
Would you suggest using it for COVID-19?
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Old 18th January 2022, 10:54 PM   #1000
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Ivermectin has been used to successfully treat billions of people, since the 70's:
It's been used to treat people with parasitic infections, not viruses.
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