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Old 21st June 2017, 02:51 PM   #41
PhantomWolf
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Kamehameha who stole everyone else's land in Hawaii is worshipped as or almost as a deity here. If the Hawaiians had the power they would most certainly do exactly as you ascribed to the Europeans
I am sure they would have, afterall look at the history of the Maori in my own country. My point isn't that the natives were more civilized than Europeans, it's that Europeans weren't superior and more civilized than the natives, they just had better weaponry.
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Old 22nd June 2017, 05:59 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Yep. My brothers and I still enjoy taking down a tree with a hand saw or axes and then limbing the tree and sectioning it and splitting it for firewood. It is a good workout and useful work. Even if we have a chainsaw with a sharpened chain in the back of the truck for when we've had enough or just running out of time.

And that's orders of magnitude different from what these folks did.
I've done enough of it that the hard work does not impress me either.
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Old 22nd June 2017, 06:04 AM   #43
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That's the second-worst appeal to authority I've seen this week. Somehow equating making a rocking horse with making a boat and sailing around the world without modern navigation aids. Jesus, that must be an attempt at humour that I've somehow missed.
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Old 22nd June 2017, 12:55 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I've done enough of it that the hard work does not impress me either.
Not at all the point, but nice horse?
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Old 22nd June 2017, 02:57 PM   #45
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Descendants of Neanderthals use primitive power source to make forward progress. National Geographic article to follow.
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Old 22nd June 2017, 03:01 PM   #46
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And you just keep digging yourself in deeper.......
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Old 23rd June 2017, 10:37 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And you just keep digging yourself in deeper.......
I take that as a compliment, that I have enough impact that you are concerned about my posts.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 03:04 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Maybe casebro will next say that any idiot with a color camera is a greater artist then Da Vinci, Rembrandt, or the French Impressionists.....

Not likely, since they were all white.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 03:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That is a valid point.
I don't buy the whole "Indignious (for lack of a better word) people are morally superior to more technically advanced people" nonsense for a minute. The whole Rosseau concept of the "Noble Savage" is pure BS
Although that does not excuse the way that the Europeans treated the "natives". I think that US's treatment of Native Americans is, along with slavery, the two great blots on the US's history.
And it certainly does not excuse casebro's withering contempt for non Whites.
I agree. People are pretty much the same everywhere. And an evil is an evil. What some (many) Europeans did to Native Americans (and I'll include Hawaians here) was an evil, whatever evils some (many?) Native Americans did to one another. And, to add the obvious, the better the technology available the greater the evil that can be (was) achieved.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 03:57 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Descendants of Neanderthals use primitive power source to make forward progress. National Geographic article to follow.
Gee, clever! Where did the idea of outriggers/multihulls first achieve success? it seems like a major breakthrough!
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Old 23rd June 2017, 04:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Once each for that and Slocumb's. Later, Bowditch. I appreciate Navigation.

I do not appreciate the recent glorifications of backwards technology. "Lived in congress with the land" is baloney, they raped the land the best they could. Have you read about the Polynesians extincting themselves at Easter Island? The American natives with 20,000 living in a village with no sewer system, later calling that valley taboo because of cholera? Aztec kings with cloaks made from the feathers of 2,000 hummingbirds? I think I prefer chlorine, Mylar, and a Sextant.
I am a sailor and I love sailing. But all sailing is a glorification of backwards technology in many ways, for all the advancements in materials and design. if you want to go around the world using current technology, then buy an airplane ticket. Or if you insist on using a boat, it is my understanding that diesels have displaced sails in terms of overall utility for more than 100 years.

Oh, BTW, no one uses a sextant anymore, and Mylar is a fairly ancient, although still used, material now. Not really a good example of cutting edge sailing tech.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 04:18 PM   #52
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Speaking for myself, It may be due to my over the top patriotism, but I am excited that my fellow Americans were so instrumental in recreating this part of our country's history! It was a fun and very challenging project, and I am proud of their success.

That is why I really enjoy the USA- we get to share one another's heritages. I get to share the thrill of this voyage; the sailors get to eat knishes now that they have returned.

BTW Casebro- what country are you from? Perhaps you are just jealous?
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Old 26th June 2017, 12:02 AM   #53
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nevermind
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Old 30th June 2017, 11:59 AM   #54
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Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C5%8...#363;leʻa[1][2] is a performance-accurate full-scale replica of a waʻa kaulua,[3][4]

Construction
Polynesian voyaging canoes were made from wood, whereas HōkūleĎa incorporates plywood, fiberglass and resin.[7]
The OP is a lie. I pointed that out. Instead of calling me a skeptic, on a skeptic site, I was called a racist. What a bunch of bigots you are that can't accept a different viewpoint.
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Old 30th June 2017, 12:06 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
To be fair, the Hokule'a has been around for decades, doing similar voyages, and was initially conceived to make a (semi) political point about the loss of culture. When the ship was first built, no one in the state knew how to navigate using anything other than modern methods. They had to bring in someone from Micronesia to first do the navigation for them, and eventually train others.

Even today, Hokule'a sails to advocate for awareness of the oceanic environment, and to encourage people to preserve and propagate various endangered cultural practices.

While I personally agree with these agendas, I do believe they do have political ramifications, and ironically, discussions such as the above were one of the desired results of the original dream.

http://www.hokulea.com/
See, the whole concept of the trip was political statement. But some here can't handle the least bit of rebuttal.
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Old 30th June 2017, 12:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
...

Either way: big ocean, little boat, little island waaaay out there.
And I did give credit where credit is due, their navigation.
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Old 30th June 2017, 12:56 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Jesus, H.............Is there nothing interesting or out of the usual in this world that doesn't lead to a sneer-fest here?

No-one suggested that this was some sort of inter-ethnic competition. No-one suggested that just because some Polynesians did this, that white people couldn't do it too. No one suggested that this voyage was any sort of political statement. Why the **** do some drongos have to make a political point about absolutely every damn story?


And this doesn't prove they did make it to all sorts of places, only that they could make it, which disproves those who say, "Obviously those canoes couldn't make such ocean-spanning trips!" (Even though they even more obviously traversed massive stretches of ocean to even make it to Hawaii and other Pacific islands in ancient times.)
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