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Old 17th August 2017, 10:32 AM   #1041
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's true. Time is an illusion (Einstein, Brian Greene, etc...). Time is an experience of a mind of the phenomena, unfolding themselves moment by moment. But in reality outthere, there is spacetime: all events exist together.

I'm only referring to the idea of Einstein and Brian Greene and other physicists that time is an illusion.

And Douglas Adams: "The wave harmonic theory of historical perception, in its simplest form, states that history is an illusion caused by the passage of time, and that time is an illusion caused by the passage of history."

By the way, your "observer" wouldn't be some sort of turtle, would it?
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Old 17th August 2017, 11:08 AM   #1042
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's true. Time is an illusion (Einstein, Brian Greene, etc...). Time is an experience of a mind of the phenomena, unfolding themselves moment by moment. But in reality outthere, there is spacetime: all events exist together.
If events are separated in space-time then the don't "exist together". Again in order for logical consistency, events and their negations must be separated. Space-time represents that separation. So it explicitly means they are not "together".

Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post

I'm only referring to the idea of Einstein and Brian Greene and other physicists that time is an illusion.
No you're not, you're just referring to your own musings and trying to posit them as theirs. As you still don't appear to understand what you are arguing for and what they actually asserted.

Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
An illusion of a mind. Only minds can have illusions.
You need minds to have this illusion of time.
While you might need minds to have your preferred illusion, you don't need minds to have time. However, minds do require time a priori. Again otherwise mind and no mind are simultaneous. As it is not just minds that require events and their negations to be separated but simple logical consistency. Should you continue to choose to argue for logical inconsistency any effective argument renders itself as false as it does true.
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Old 17th August 2017, 05:56 PM   #1043
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's true. Time is an illusion (Einstein, Brian Greene, etc...)....
Maartenn100, the truth is:.
  1. Einstein treated time as real.
  2. Repeat for millions of scientists!
  3. Brian Greene has an interesting discussion in a Nova "Fabric Of The Cosmos" show of the [b]flow of time[/B ]as a illusion.
  4. etc.
What makes this into a lie is that neither said "Time is an experience of a mind of the phenomena". They wrote about physics.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th August 2017 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 17th August 2017, 07:19 PM   #1044
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The grand cycle of Masrteen100's posts still fascinates me! A post by him will pop up after approx. 3 to 4 months of silence. Then he will post for a few days, only to go silent for another 3 to 4 months.

Maarten- please satisfy my curiousity if you are willing. Why do you fall silent! What makes you return? Do you mark the date of your return in advance on a calendar or do you just post again based on an internal clock? Is there a deeper meaning to it all? I am not making fun- I am truly curious!
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Old 18th August 2017, 02:51 PM   #1045
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
The sequence is not an illusion, but it's an experience of reality which only appears in front of a conscious mind. In reality, outthere, in spacetime, the whole ordre of events already exists simultaniously in spacetime.

(That's not what I'm saying, that's current scientific knowledge. I only show you the logical implication of it: you need a mind to have the experience of a sequence of events, moment by moment)
Nope, that is what you are saying.
It is your misinterpretation, please find a published research article that agrees with you.

There is no simultaneity, regardless of your feelings
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Old 18th August 2017, 02:52 PM   #1046
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's true. Time is an illusion (Einstein, Brian Greene, etc...). Time is an experience of a mind of the phenomena, unfolding themselves moment by moment. But in reality outthere, there is spacetime: all events exist together.

I'm only referring to the idea of Einstein and Brian Greene and other physicists that time is an illusion.

An illusion of a mind. Only minds can have illusions.
You need minds to have this illusion of time.
That is NOT what Einstein said or Greene, that is just you
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Old 18th August 2017, 04:54 PM   #1047
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
The grand cycle of Masrteen100's posts still fascinates me! A post by him will pop up after approx. 3 to 4 months of silence. Then he will post for a few days, only to go silent for another 3 to 4 months.

Maarten- please satisfy my curiousity if you are willing. Why do you fall silent! What makes you return? Do you mark the date of your return in advance on a calendar or do you just post again based on an internal clock? Is there a deeper meaning to it all? I am not making fun- I am truly curious!
Vewwyy Kumarish as I have noted in the past.
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Old 18th August 2017, 04:55 PM   #1048
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Spent a good deal of wasted time on this train to c'ville also. They all end up there - only the times separate them!!!
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Old 19th August 2017, 02:32 AM   #1049
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
[/list]What makes this into a lie is that neither said "Time is an experience of a mind of the phenomena". They wrote about physics.
I write about reality. Minds are part of reality. Physics is just one aspect of reality. The mind, however, is also a part of reality. Even when you like to ignore minds as part of nature, minds do exist. Even when it is not part of physics. (physics is just a human invention to describe parts of nature).
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spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously. Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time

Last edited by Maartenn100; 19th August 2017 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 19th August 2017, 03:04 AM   #1050
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I write about reality. Minds are part of reality. Physics is just one aspect of reality. The mind, however, is also a part of reality. Even when you like to ignore minds as part of nature, minds do exist. Even when it is not part of physics. (physics is just a human invention to describe parts of nature).
Carrot cakes are also part of reality. But we don't need to incorporate them into our theories about space-time.
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Old 19th August 2017, 03:47 AM   #1051
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
That is NOT what Einstein said or Greene, that is just you
Nope: http://www.physics-astronomy.com/201...-illusion.html

en

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v99-S4_IvVg

And an illusion can only be created by a mind.
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spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously. Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time

Last edited by Maartenn100; 19th August 2017 at 03:50 AM.
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Old 19th August 2017, 05:53 AM   #1052
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
From your own citation...

Quote:
Albert Einstein himself, "the dividing line between past, present, and future is an illusion".
So not that time is an illusion created by the mind but "the dividing line between past, present, and future is an illusion". Again referring to the fact that the ordering of some (not all) events can be relative and thus dependent on the worldliness involved. So not even that "illusion" being created "by a mind". Again events that are causally related are not simultaneous in any reference frame also events that are not spatially separated and are simultaneous (not separated in time) are simultaneous in all reference frames. You continue to confuse (apparently now just deliberately) some aspects of ordering in time and simultaneity being frame dependent as simply time itself being "mind" dependent. Which the actually theories and observations explicitly demonstrate is not the case. By all means please let use know when you can modify time (not just your perception of time) using just your mind.
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Old 20th August 2017, 02:11 PM   #1053
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Nope:
You make your previous post a lie by only reading the article title or not understanding what Albert Einstein said, Maartenn100.

According to Einstein Time is an Illusion, and Here is the Proof (and no proof is given !)
Quote:
Time is actually relative, and flexible and, according to Albert Einstein himself, "the dividing line between past, present, and future is an illusion". Below in the video Prof. Brian Greene explains this concepts beautifully…. So watch and learn.
This is Einstein stating that time is real - otherwise how can time be relative and flexible! He, Prof. Brian Greene and anyone who has learned about relativity in the last 112 years know that time is real but different observers measure different times. Thus the division between the past and future varies according to an observer's measurements and is a every real "illusion".

The quote is not from a textbook, lecture or scientific paper! It is a remark from a condolence letter.
Einstein and Michele Besso
Quote:
Upon Besso's death in 1955, Einstein wrote a letter of condolence to the Besso family — less than a month before his own death — which contained the following quote "Now he has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That signifies nothing. For those of us who believe in physics, the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."
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Old 21st August 2017, 02:53 PM   #1054
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That is lazy Martenn and should be ashamed, no where can you find that as an actual quote of Einstein's.
just on that web page WITHOUT any citation!
https://www.google.com/search?q=eins...utf-8&oe=utf-8

I am shocked you just quote garbage off the internet, I has hoped for better.
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