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Old 8th November 2019, 04:12 PM   #1881
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Johnson appears to be rather confused about the deal "he" negotiated, just a small detail about customs and NI..... BBC News - General election 2019: Boris Johnson 'does not understand' deal trade checks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50352678
A British PM "does not understand" Ireland...
Nothing new there......
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Old 9th November 2019, 12:51 AM   #1882
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Johnson appears to be rather confused about the deal "he" negotiated, just a small detail about customs and NI..... BBC News - General election 2019: Boris Johnson 'does not understand' deal trade checks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50352678
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Johnson says absolutely anything that will get him through the next minute, there's as much forethought and planning as a wind chime in whirlwind.
Straight out of the Trump playbook. Johnson had that tendency but now it seems to be a general strategy. Devout Tories and Brexiteers will hear the words and that will be good enough.
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Old 9th November 2019, 01:23 AM   #1883
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Straight out of the Trump playbook. Johnson had that tendency but now it seems to be a general strategy. Devout Tories and Brexiteers will hear the words and that will be good enough.
Far more than a tendency.

Johnson built his career on lying, the Times sacked him for it (he made a historical error in an article and rather than own up to it he doubled down and made up a quote from his godfather, a noted authority), and then was picked up by the Telegraph as Brussels Correspondant, a job that he interpreted as 'make up inflammatory lies about the EU', described as being like chucking rocks at a neighbour's greenhouse to hear the crash, and which he said gave him a "wierd sense if power". Some of those lies are still in circulation decades later and informed the nebulous idea of 'taking back control'.

(You probably already know all this but I don't think it can be restated enough how dishonest Johnson is or how scandalous his position as PM should be.)
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Old 12th November 2019, 02:04 AM   #1884
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The UK’s Macabre Final Election

Originally Posted by Craig Murray
[...] The claims that Johnson did not understand his own deal are wide of the mark. He is not stupid; he knows what is in it. If you listen very carefully to what he said then and subsequently, he is not claiming his deal does not specify any checks between Northern Ireland and the mainland. What he is stating is his assurance that there will be no checks. This confirms the fears I have been reporting within the FCO, that Boris Johnson simply has no intention of actually implementing the withdrawal agreement. He has been negotiating in bad faith with the EU, and signing up to things he has no intention of doing in order to “Get Brexit Done”. He has no moral scruples over lying, it is not his style to think beyond immediate personal advantage, and he is still enamoured of the idea that in the end the EU will always buckle because it needs the UK market.

The stars have aligned perfectly for those of us who support Scottish Independence, and I am delighted that both Irish unification and Plaid Cymru have been given a bigger boost than seemed plausible just a very few years ago. This election is sordid, tawdry, corrupt and uninspiring; a fitting end for the UK and its long history of callous exploitation. Never has a state been more adept at using its system of law to shift resources from the poor to the rich. Never has a state’s dissolution been more overdue.

The balkanization of the UK? I have no opinion on that.
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Old 12th November 2019, 02:19 AM   #1885
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It is "inexplicable and shameful" that the UK government has not yet published a report on alleged Russian interference in British politics, Hillary Clinton has told the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50382668
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Old 12th November 2019, 03:50 AM   #1886
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It is "inexplicable and shameful" that the UK government has not yet published a report on alleged Russian interference in British politics, Hillary Clinton has told the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50382668
Gosh, I wonder why a Conservative Prime Minister (whose party has apparently accepted millions in donations from Russian sources) wouldn't want that report published before the election
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Old 12th November 2019, 04:07 AM   #1887
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And now Nigel Fromage claims he was offered a peerage three days before he decided not to stand against Tories. Why is there no scandal? That should be enough to bring down a government, yet it's hardly caused a ripple.
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Old 12th November 2019, 04:17 AM   #1888
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
And now Nigel Fromage claims he was offered a peerage three days before he decided not to stand against Tories. Why is there no scandal? That should be enough to bring down a government, yet it's hardly caused a ripple.
I suppose part of it is that Nigel Farage has made the claim, it hasn't been confirmed by a more reliable (or should I say less unreliable) source such as the Conservative Party.

We the electorate are the problem. If the electorate cared more about the behaviour of politicians then politicians would care more about their behaviour.

Anyway, it's pretty well known that Boris Johnson will do pretty much anything to stay in power and he wants a no-deal Brexit so this hardly comes as a surprise.
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:21 AM   #1889
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The UK’s Macabre Final Election

The balkanization of the UK? I have no opinion on that.

The Balkan states seem to be a lot happier, more stable and more secure than they were in the 1990s, that's for sure.

I don't like Craig Murray, not one tiny little bit. He's a raving conspiracy theorist and he has his own agenda which he's quite happy to promote using somebody else's mandate. However he's not always wrong and some of his blog posts have been very perceptive.

This time though I think he is letting optimism run away with him. I don't think the SNP is going to do as well as he predicts because the unionist parties are entering into formal and informal electoral pacts against them, meanwhile the SGP is intent on standing no-hoper candidates all over the place. And we couldn't win every seat in Scotland or wipe out every Tory even in the black-swan event of 2015.

But even if it happened, I don't see what's to stop Johnston continuing to refuse another independence referendum, legislate to remove all meaningful powers from the Scottish parliament, and also legislate to make "campaigning to break up the UK" illegal. And if he does that, then I wouldn't bet against this becoming violent in a way that Scotland has avoided up to now. That sort of "Balkanisation" I think we could all do without.
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Last edited by Rolfe; 12th November 2019 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:30 AM   #1890
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The Balkan states seem to be a lot happier, more stable and more secure than they were in the 1990s, that's for sure.
On average, sure. Specific results may vary. Serbia is the exception, for the exact same reasons as now pester England. The only reason there was no unrest is a combination of collapsing birth rates and mass emigration, they lose almost 1% of their population per year.

Failed state incoming.

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Old 12th November 2019, 05:32 AM   #1891
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Meanwhile some schadenfreude:

https://twitter.com/Wayne_BayIey/sta...772658690?s=19

Quote:
Wayne BayIey
@Wayne_BayIey
....and the rest. I employed a full time campaign coordinator last week on a 2 month contract which has cost me thousands. I also have an outbuilding FULL of Brexit Party leaflets and signs ready for next weeks launch.

Nigel owes me over TEN GRAND.
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:33 AM   #1892
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
On average, sure. Specific results may vary. Serbia is the exception, for the exact same reasons as now pester England. The only reason there was no unrest is a combination of collapsing birth rates and mass emigration, they lose almost 1% of their population per year.

Failed state incoming.

Serbia and England, I can see the parallels. Not being English, although I'm obviously not promoting this nor would I be happy about it, it's not my main concern.
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:34 AM   #1893
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post

Oh dear what a pity how sad never mind.
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:59 AM   #1894
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Meanwhile some schadenfreude:

https://twitter.com/Wayne_BayIey/sta...772658690?s=19

Quote:
Wayne BayIey
@Wayne_BayIey
....and the rest. I employed a full time campaign coordinator last week on a 2 month contract which has cost me thousands. I also have an outbuilding FULL of Brexit Party leaflets and signs ready for next weeks launch.

Nigel owes me over TEN GRAND.
Wow. Surely there must be some upper limit to how many can actually fit under the bus?
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Old 12th November 2019, 06:03 AM   #1895
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wow. Surely there must be some upper limit to how many can actually fit under the bus?
I think it's 350 million a week, isn't it?

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Old 12th November 2019, 07:01 AM   #1896
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Oh dear what a pity how sad never mind.
Indeed.
Still, he says he's going to campaign as an Independent Brexit Party candidate. May as well, since he's spent all that money apparently...

I wonder how many others are planning on doing the same, now that Nige has dropped them (and kept their money).
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Old 12th November 2019, 08:41 AM   #1897
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The Balkan states seem to be a lot happier, more stable and more secure than they were in the 1990s, that's for sure.

Well they're happier than during the wars, sure, but compared to the situation before that, I would disagree on all but Slovenia and Croatia. Bosnia-Herzegovina f.e. ist an extremely poor practical EU-protectorate and Kosovo is a mafia haven with associated US base, a terrible place that everybody who can is leaving.

Anyway, I hope that if any such developments take place in the UK you guys manage to do it peacefully.
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Old 12th November 2019, 08:44 AM   #1898
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wow. Surely there must be some upper limit to how many can actually fit under the bus?

Mebbe. But there's no shortage of buses.

...

...

...

...

Yet ... anyhow.
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Old 12th November 2019, 09:03 AM   #1899
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
<gibber snip>

The balkanization of the UK? I have no opinion on that.
Again with the drivel spouted by the anti-Semitic crackpot and conspiracy theory peddler?

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Old 12th November 2019, 09:05 AM   #1900
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Serbia and England, I can see the parallels. Not being English, although I'm obviously not promoting this nor would I be happy about it, it's not my main concern.
The problem will be he overspill from those failed states onto their neighbours.
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Old 12th November 2019, 09:15 AM   #1901
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Scotland is underpopulated and English people who want to be Scottish are not any sort of problem. It could be a matter of scale and timing I suppose.
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Old 12th November 2019, 09:22 AM   #1902
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Well they're happier than during the wars, sure, but compared to the situation before that, I would disagree on all but Slovenia and Croatia. Bosnia-Herzegovina f.e. ist an extremely poor practical EU-protectorate and Kosovo is a mafia haven with associated US base, a terrible place that everybody who can is leaving.

Anyway, I hope that if any such developments take place in the UK you guys manage to do it peacefully.
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Again with the drivel spouted by the anti-Semitic crackpot and conspiracy theory peddler?

Well it can't possibly have been the Serbian genocides against the Muslims (and Catholics) in Bosnia and Kosovo because Russia supported Serbia.

I do actually agree that the West bears a lot of responsibility, but that is because they didn't intervene earlier.
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Old 12th November 2019, 07:23 PM   #1903
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Scotland is underpopulated...
What does that mean? Is there population number that supposed to be? By what measure?

In a world that is, in my opinion, horribly overpopulated, it is hard to imagine what underpopulated actually looks like.

OK, off topic, but allow just a small side note?
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Old 13th November 2019, 05:27 AM   #1904
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
What does that mean? Is there population number that supposed to be? By what measure?

In a world that is, in my opinion, horribly overpopulated, it is hard to imagine what underpopulated actually looks like.

OK, off topic, but allow just a small side note?
Scotland:

Quote:
Scotland's total land area is 30,400 square miles or 78,800 square kilometers, giving it an overall population density of 168 people per square mile or 65 people per square kilometer.
https://www.undiscoveredscotland.co....phy/index.html

England:

Quote:
As of 2018, the population density for the United Kingdom was 274 people per square kilometer. Of the countries which make up the United Kingdom, England is by far the most densely populated at 430 people per square kilometer.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...uk-by-country/


However, you do need to take into account terrain. Scotland is full o' ye banks and braes' o' bonny doon.


Attached, from: https://theconversation.com/think-yo...s-europe-90345
Attached Images
File Type: jpg eu pop density.jpg (32.2 KB, 27 views)
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:17 AM   #1905
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
But even if it happened, I don't see what's to stop Johnston continuing to refuse another independence referendum, legislate to remove all meaningful powers from the Scottish parliament, and also legislate to make "campaigning to break up the UK" illegal. And if he does that, then I wouldn't bet against this becoming violent in a way that Scotland has avoided up to now. That sort of "Balkanisation" I think we could all do without.
Sounds more like Catalonia than the Balkans.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:26 AM   #1906
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Sounds more like Catalonia than the Balkans.
TBF so does Caledonia.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:28 AM   #1907
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Sounds more like Catalonia than the Balkans.
Even that one is a stretch until the U.K. issues arrest warrants for Nicola Sturgeon and SMPs in flight to the continent.
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Old 13th November 2019, 01:47 PM   #1908
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
What does that mean? Is there population number that supposed to be? By what measure?

In a world that is, in my opinion, horribly overpopulated, it is hard to imagine what underpopulated actually looks like.

OK, off topic, but allow just a small side note?

Surprisingly, Vixen has posted something relevant.

Scotland was subjected to severe depopulation in the late 18th and 19th centuries, for a number of reasons. In comparative terms, at the time of the union in 1707 Scotland contained (from memory) about 28% of the population of the brand new UK, that is with 33% of the land mass. Now that 33% of the land mass contains only something like 8.6% of the population. Scotland's population remained almost static at about 5 million throughout the 20th century and has only recently (in fact since the establishment of the Scottish parliament) begun to grow a bit. If it had grown as projected we'd have about 8 million people by now.

People have written about the so-called remote areas of Scotland, comparing them to geographically similar places in for example Norway. While Norway has thriving communities, Scotland has ankle-high stone foundations of ruined dwellings, hidden among the grass and heather.

We need and want more people. The problem is of course that people need infrastructure and that doesn't spring fully-created overnight. But it would be a nice problem to have, rather than the Westminster government deporting people with young families who have chosen to make their lives running a small business in a struggling small community because they only employed one person rather than two.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:54 PM   #1909
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
People have written about the so-called remote areas of Scotland, comparing them to geographically similar places in for example Norway. While Norway has thriving communities, Scotland has ankle-high stone foundations of ruined dwellings, hidden among the grass and heather.
Meanwhile in reality, rural areas in Norway and other Nordic countries are often struggling and certainly not "thriving", especially the northern ones. Very few young people want to live in the middle of nowhere, meaning that the population is concentrated in larger towns and the larger cities.

Add to this the people's preference for living at more southern latitudes, Scotland is destined to remain largely empty.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:59 PM   #1910
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I dunno - what with global warming and all, in another 50 years people will be flocking to Scotland for the balmy climate.
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Old 13th November 2019, 11:49 PM   #1911
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Tory Brexit = keeping wogs out

Quote:
The Conservatives will reduce "immigration overall" to the UK after Brexit if they win the general election, Home Secretary Priti Patel has said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50412772

Stuff the needs of industry, the NHS or UK residents' desire to reunite their families - got to pander to the xenophobes and racists
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:03 AM   #1912
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Originally Posted by crackers View Post
I dunno - what with global warming and all, in another 50 years people will be flocking to Scotland for the balmy climate.
Scotland has ... acceptable ... climate solely thanks to the Antlantic conveyor, a warm current from the Gulf of Mexico that warms all of Europe. Without that Scotland would be the climate would be comparible to the climate of Hudson bay in Canada.

Most Canadians live well to the south, about as far north as France.

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Old 14th November 2019, 02:05 AM   #1913
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Tory Brexit = keeping wogs out



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50412772

Stuff the needs of industry, the NHS or UK residents' desire to reunite their families - got to pander to the xenophobes and racists
I see this time they're not going to give any actual figures (or timescales).
I think they've taken a leaf out of Samson's book...
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Old 14th November 2019, 02:58 AM   #1914
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Surprisingly, Vixen has posted something relevant.
Yawn
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Old 14th November 2019, 03:03 AM   #1915
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Tory Brexit = keeping wogs out



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50412772

Stuff the needs of industry, the NHS or UK residents' desire to reunite their families - got to pander to the xenophobes and racists
This language is irritating. For the record it was the Trade Unions (Labour mostly) who went on anti-immigrant marches way back when.
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Old 14th November 2019, 03:06 AM   #1916
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
TBF so does Caledonia.
Nominated for pith
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Old 14th November 2019, 03:10 AM   #1917
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
This language is irritating. For the record it was the Trade Unions (Labour mostly) who went on anti-immigrant marches way back when.
Back when ?

Back in the 1930's it was the Fascists leading the attacks on immigrants and Labour, unions and other Socialists leading the fight against them.

Back in the 1970's it was the National Front leading the attacks on immigrants and Labour, unions and other Socialists leading the fight against them.

Over the last couple of decades it has been the EDL, UKIP, Brexit Party and the Conservatives themselves leading the attacks on immigrants and Labour, unions and other Socialists leading the fight against them.

Even if there was some point in time where organised labour was leading the attacks on immigration and immigrants, for the last ten years it's been the Conservative Party which has been blaming immigrants for the effects of Austerity, calling for hard limits on the number of immigrants, talking about changing the immigration process (whilst at the same time doing precisely nothing about it).
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Old 14th November 2019, 03:20 AM   #1918
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Back when ?

Back in the 1930's it was the Fascists leading the attacks on immigrants and Labour, unions and other Socialists leading the fight against them.

Back in the 1970's it was the National Front leading the attacks on immigrants and Labour, unions and other Socialists leading the fight against them.

Over the last couple of decades it has been the EDL, UKIP, Brexit Party and the Conservatives themselves leading the attacks on immigrants and Labour, unions and other Socialists leading the fight against them.

Even if there was some point in time where organised labour was leading the attacks on immigration and immigrants, for the last ten years it's been the Conservative Party which has been blaming immigrants for the effects of Austerity, calling for hard limits on the number of immigrants, talking about changing the immigration process (whilst at the same time doing precisely nothing about it).
The way I see it, it's a working class thing. The working classes mistrust what they perceive as 'cheap labour' (immigrants from poorer countries) undercutting their wages (or so they believe). It is this group who came out in support of Enoch Powell ('Enoch is right'). However, when you look at immigration history, it is invariably the Tories (for capitalist reasons [cheap, plentiful]) inviting them in.

You'll find Labour supported the various immigration acts so it is not a case of their being some how more friendly.

Please don't use popular racist terminology even it it is tongue-in-cheek as it doesn't help the argument.
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Old 14th November 2019, 03:29 AM   #1919
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Tory Brexit = keeping wogs out



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50412772

Stuff the needs of industry, the NHS or UK residents' desire to reunite their families - got to pander to the xenophobes and racists
Of course the irony is that this will massively reduce the influx of Europeans who are culturally and physically very similar to them (white skin, culturally Christian, secular etc) and who have tended to disburse themselves within the existing communty and instead we will have to make up the bulk of the immigration we need with the noticeably non-WASP communities that scare them so much.
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Old 14th November 2019, 03:37 AM   #1920
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Of course the irony is that this will massively reduce the influx of Europeans who are culturally and physically very similar to them (white skin, culturally Christian, secular etc) and who have tended to disburse themselves within the existing communty and instead we will have to make up the bulk of the immigration we need with the noticeably non-WASP communities that scare them so much.
Maybe, maybe not.
I've thought about this seeming disconnect.

But, at least this way you can see/spot the immigrants.

With all those Poles who came for work, a local might think they're amongst their own people and suddenly find out they're surrounded by immigrants! The horror.
Better to have the immigrants more visible. Colour coded so to say.
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