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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew Bolt , autism , environmental activists , Greta Thunberg

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Old 6th November 2019, 11:04 PM   #2521
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Our electricity is 80% renewable.

Still have to burn coal a bit when it gets busy
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

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Old 7th November 2019, 03:50 AM   #2522
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Actually got that wrong

84%

Edit: Think Greta may not come here
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 7th November 2019 at 04:02 AM.
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Old 7th November 2019, 06:31 AM   #2523
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
At the cost of islands disappearing and whole countries inundated? Do you think this is a good thing? Well, you must, because this is exactly what you have said.

Unbelievable.
Silver lining and all.

Back to reality

So far all attempts to mitigate GHG emissions from burning fossil fuels have failed. Increases in renewables and increases in vehicle fuel efficiencies are all good yet Greta Thunberg's childhood has still been ruined.

So what now ? Wait for government and young people to fix this climate emergency ?
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Old 7th November 2019, 10:05 AM   #2524
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Also being underestimated is the effect climate change is already having. Polling has shown, most people under age 35 expect some bad stuff to happen in the years ahead. Many believe they can already see a decline in quality of life. I'm well over 35 and I see it too. Battling something like climate change is one of the prime reasons for having government. This meme that if people would just ride a bike to work climate change will go away is ridiculous. This isn't a problem we can solve one concerned citizen at a time.
I see your point, but I think it a disingenuous one.

I think that most people who care to give the issue thought realise that when the rubber hits the road the crux of the problem is the consumer-culture itself. The "right" is not being paranoid when they point out that much of what will likely need to be done if the greatest numbers of people are to come through this with the least suffering will resemble forms of Communism.
That is a dangerous "third-rail" consideration, as we have an entire world sustaining itself through manipulating that culture to their own benefit to one extent or another- and we are rightly terrified of the cultural and personal upheavals that will probably result from rejecting that model.

It may very well be the case that this problem could be solved by a sufficient number of people choosing to live in a much smaller house, ride a bike or use mass transit to travel, stop eating meat, stop purchasing 99% of the crap that we purchase, and otherwise behave as completely rational global citizens.
The downside, of course is the the complete economic collapse that would likely take place should a number of people sufficient to make a difference decide to take that route.

The irony not lost on those who might be willing to make those changes, is that by becoming the solution to the climate crisis they will put themselves in the position of martyrs, as the economic collapse will hurt them more than the people who continued to live like hogs.
Conversely, if they continue to consume like the hogs, they are also most likely to suffer the worst effects of the climate collapse.

The dilemma then, is how to avoid being a victim of the climate problem without becoming a martyr to the solution. The answer to that seems to be forced collective action. Which is what I think you mean when you said "this isn't a problem we can solve one concerned citizens a time".

That is what Greta is a poster girl for. Of course it is for show. She need only show herself making an effort to be the concerned citizen (like the sailboat, and the Tesla), it is clear that those things are not the solution- but more importantly they are not the solution she is urging. The solution she is selling is the idea of collective action as something that is necessary, and what she is attempting (wittingly or not) is to indoctrinate the upcoming generation to embrace that idea.

Sorry for the ramble.
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Last edited by Distracted1; 7th November 2019 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 7th November 2019, 10:23 AM   #2525
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
That’s because you are not looking.
I was specifically looking for exactly what she had done and said. As far as I can see, she has urged school 'strikes' and shamed adults for 'taking away her childhood'. Which I am not sure was actually taken away.

What action has been spurned? What nation has changed its energy initiatives? I'm not talking about flash in the pan decreased airline usage in Sweden. Time will tell if that holds out.

Again, it's not the conservation and responsible management agenda I have a problem with. It is the endless dog and pony shows. Feel good showboating is a hollow substitute for action.

Quote:
Do you not think a lot can be done by governments without everybody in the world stopping driving cars? Because I do. In another thread there is a news report that Australia generates more than 50% of its electricity from renewables, which has resulted mainly from government subsidised solar panels. When our government gets more serious and closes down all coal fired power stations, that percentage will move rapidly.

Australia has had a poor record in this area, but it has shown how quickly change can happen. Government needs pressure put on it to change, and Greta’s movement is helping to increase that pressure.
Exactly my point. Real work getting done, with real results. All sans Greta, btw.

As I keep saying, playtime is over. Cheap theatrics are over. Time to drop the pom poms and get to work. Greta seems like an aging cheerleader at this point. We don't need school strikes for another cheap show. We need to hit them in the wallet
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:35 AM   #2526
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No time to catch up other than to read some of the discussion in here about Greta Thunberg's transportation methods.

FYI, Qantas have been testing flying planes using biofuels since at least 2012.

https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlin...fuel/global/en

The first Sydney - LA biofuelled flight was in January 2012.

"In January 2018 we operated the world's first dedicated biofuel flight between the United States and Australia: QF96 from Los Angeles to Melbourne. The historic trans-Pacific 15-hour flight operated with approximately 24,000kg of blended biofuel, saving 18,000kg in carbon emissions.

"Qantas used biofuel processed from Brassica Carinata, a non-food, industrial type of mustard seed, developed by Canadian-based agricultural-technology company, Agrisoma BiosciencesThis link will open in a new window.. Carinata is planted in the off-season so it provides landholders supplementary income and doesn't interfere with a farm's primary production. The plant is water efficient, reduces erosion and conserves soil nutrients.

"The flight was part of the partnership announced in 2017 which will also see the companies work with Australian farmers to grow the country's first commercial aviation biofuel seed crop by 2020."

https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlin...fuel/global/en

At each stage of the production and use of the aviation biofuel, carbon is reabsorbed, compared to the opposite with conventional aviation fuel.

Pic: https://www.qantas.com/img/350x232/environ1-a.jpg

Note, I don't know what planes Greta Thunberg has been flying in (if any), or if any other airlines already fly with green fuel methods, but I seem to recall I did read something (unrelated to Thunberg).

Just pointing out that, as with nearly everything these days, if you look into it, there are better ways to do things that are also already being done.

I'm not following Thunberg's journey, but I see some of the interesting environmental, science, political and protest news she shares.
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:58 AM   #2527
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What action has been spurned? What nation has changed its energy initiatives? I'm not talking about flash in the pan decreased airline usage in Sweden. Time will tell if that holds out.

Again, it's not the conservation and responsible management agenda I have a problem with. It is the endless dog and pony shows. Feel good showboating is a hollow substitute for action.



Exactly my point. Real work getting done, with real results. All sans Greta, btw.
Greta criticised Australia's Prime Minister.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...25-p52uma.html

The PM has since banned exporting our recycling, and now:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/t...W-m3qRdZZn-J4A

Today, Australia's PM, leaders and thinkers met to enact recycling systems changes in Australia.

The PM and current government (with whom I disagree on many things) actually have a circular economy policy, and many environmental strategies.

I was criticising them on Twitter a lot, early in the year. Then recently, I realised that I didn't actually know much about them or look at the current gov.au news releases.

It's our fear of our traditional enemies and our own tunnel vision that stops us realising we have more in common than we think.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:14 AM   #2528
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Greta writes:

11,000 scientists recently signed a declaration of climate emergency.
It's great that this gets media attention.
But it's not like this [is] the first time. Just last year over 20,000 scientists signed a similar warning. How many warnings do we need for us to actually start treating this crisis as a crisis?
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:51 AM   #2529
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'Greta Thunberg effect' driving growth in carbon offsetting

Growing concern about the climate crisis and the “Greta Thunberg effect” are driving huge increases in individuals and businesses choosing to offset their emissions by investing in carbon-reducing projects in developing countries.

NGOs and organisations involved in carbon offsetting have seen as much as a fourfold increase in investment from people who want to try to mitigate their carbon footprints.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:54 AM   #2530
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
'Greta Thunberg effect' driving growth in carbon offsetting

Growing concern about the climate crisis and the “Greta Thunberg effect” are driving huge increases in individuals and businesses choosing to offset their emissions by investing in carbon-reducing projects in developing countries.

NGOs and organisations involved in carbon offsetting have seen as much as a fourfold increase in investment from people who want to try to mitigate their carbon footprints.
So much for the "she is doing nothing" naysayers. make way deniers.
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Old 8th November 2019, 05:14 AM   #2531
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
So much for the "she is doing nothing" naysayers. make way deniers.
I'm not sure which is more laughable

The thinking they weren't making efforts for years before Greta hit your radar or that you think she prompted them.
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Old 8th November 2019, 06:21 AM   #2532
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
'Greta Thunberg effect' driving growth in carbon offsetting

Growing concern about the climate crisis and the “Greta Thunberg effect” are driving huge increases in individuals and businesses choosing to offset their emissions by investing in carbon-reducing projects in developing countries.

NGOs and organisations involved in carbon offsetting have seen as much as a fourfold increase in investment from people who want to try to mitigate their carbon footprints.
Oh yes, carbon offsets. Even Greta Thunberg knows those ae feeble and ineffective otherwise she'd be flying and using those rather than refusing to fly.

Emulate your heroes people, don't simply buy your way to salvation.
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Old 8th November 2019, 09:32 AM   #2533
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I'm not sure which is more laughable

The thinking they weren't making efforts for years before Greta hit your radar or that you think she prompted them.
David Hughes, the chair of Climate Stewards, said: “This year, the whole business of carbon offsetting has suddenly taken off. It has been so gratifying to see a lot of individuals choosing to offset over the last 12 months – the numbers have more than doubled.

“We are seeing the Greta effect, the impact of Extinction Rebellion, the impact of the words of David Attenborough, the school strikes, all of these coming together.”
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Old 8th November 2019, 09:40 AM   #2534
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I'm not sure which is more laughable

The thinking they weren't making efforts for years before Greta hit your radar or that you think she prompted them.
Two things I know:
Efforts were being made since before Thunberg was born.
Efforts have increased due to her influence.j
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Old 8th November 2019, 11:30 AM   #2535
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Two things I know:
Efforts were being made since before Thunberg was born.
Efforts have increased due to her influence.j
Yes.

But of course she is annoying, should be at school and live in a cave.........
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Old 8th November 2019, 12:11 PM   #2536
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes.

But of course she is annoying, should be at school and live in a cave.........
Yep. There is a whole lot of struggling and failure going on to find legitimate reasons to criticize her. In spite of it all an imperfect 16 yo girl with limited experience and limited knowledge is having way more positive effect on mitigating climate change than any of her critics ever have or ever will.

If her increased carbon footprint over the course of her tour influences, say, 10,000 young people to reduce theirs then that is a positive trade off. I do agree with obvious position with her old fart critics here that expecting any of them to further reduce their own carbon footprints due to her efforts is a lost cause. Fortunately many, many people think otherwise.
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:17 PM   #2537
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes.

But of course she is annoying, should be at school and live in a cave.........

Don't agree with this.

I find the way she comes across is irritating in some of her speeches, but that is due to bad acting and the people that write the script.

She should be in school in some capacity though

not sure why you think people want her to live in a cave.


Just not causing 6 trans-Atlantic flights to not cause 4 would be handy
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:24 PM   #2538
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes.

But of course she is annoying, should be at school and live in a cave.........
It seems like you're having trouble articulating a reasonable middle ground between "luxury air travel whenever you want" and "live in a cave with no electricity or running water".

Greta could travel by air because her message is important and must be delivered in person. You've suggested she's doing important work in the past, but seem reluctant to argue that this justifies air travel. Why not? Other important people will be flying to COP25, why shouldn't Greta?

Greta could travel by air and buy carbon offsets to compensate, but you've also not made that argument. Why not? Do you not believe in carbon offsets?

As someone who regularly vacations by air, and who also clearly believes in the importance of Greta's message, I think you would have some really good insights into the subject. It's exactly because you don't choose to live in a cave that I'm interested in what you have to say about Greta's travel choices.
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:34 PM   #2539
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
'Greta Thunberg effect' driving growth in carbon offsetting

Growing concern about the climate crisis and the “Greta Thunberg effect” are driving huge increases in individuals and businesses choosing to offset their emissions by investing in carbon-reducing projects in developing countries.

NGOs and organisations involved in carbon offsetting have seen as much as a fourfold increase in investment from people who want to try to mitigate their carbon footprints.
'Greta Thunberg effect' ?

I thought her big audience was high school and younger, age kids..

Is the argument, that they are talking their parents into investing in carbon-reducing projects?
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:39 PM   #2540
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It seems like you're having trouble articulating a reasonable middle ground between "luxury air travel whenever you want" and "live in a cave with no electricity or running water".

Greta could travel by air because her message is important and must be delivered in person. You've suggested she's doing important work in the past, but seem reluctant to argue that this justifies air travel. Why not? Other important people will be flying to COP25, why shouldn't Greta?

Greta could travel by air and buy carbon offsets to compensate, but you've also not made that argument. Why not? Do you not believe in carbon offsets?

As someone who regularly vacations by air, and who also clearly believes in the importance of Greta's message, I think you would have some really good insights into the subject. It's exactly because you don't choose to live in a cave that I'm interested in what you have to say about Greta's travel choices.
Why?

COP 25 is a shindig of loads of people who have been talking about climate change since probably before she was born.

The whole point of the thing is climate change.

What is the actual point of her rocking up and saying listen to scientists to a room which features some extremely good climate scientist do exactly?

And again

Video conference, **** off big massive TV, no plane flights, no sitting on a boat for two weeks
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:46 PM   #2541
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Why?

COP 25 is a shindig of loads of people who have been talking about climate change since probably before she was born.

The whole point of the thing is climate change.

What is the actual point of her rocking up and saying listen to scientists to a room which features some extremely good climate scientist do exactly?
Beats the **** out of me. It's lionking's idea, not mine. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though. If he's got a good argument for it, let's hear it.
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:51 PM   #2542
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Beats the **** out of me. It's lionking's idea, not mine. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though. If he's got a good argument for it, let's hear it.

Doubt we will get one

The whole thing is a bit of a stupid endeavour with this particular event to me to be fair.

It would be a bit like a meeting of all 3 Michelin star chefs and some kid rocking up to tell them how they should try to make their food as nice as possible.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:02 PM   #2543
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It seems like you're having trouble articulating a reasonable middle ground between "luxury air travel whenever you want" and "live in a cave with no electricity or running water".

Greta could travel by air because her message is important and must be delivered in person. You've suggested she's doing important work in the past, but seem reluctant to argue that this justifies air travel. Why not? Other important people will be flying to COP25, why shouldn't Greta?

Greta could travel by air and buy carbon offsets to compensate, but you've also not made that argument. Why not? Do you not believe in carbon offsets?

As someone who regularly vacations by air, and who also clearly believes in the importance of Greta's message, I think you would have some really good insights into the subject. It's exactly because you don't choose to live in a cave that I'm interested in what you have to say about Greta's travel choices.
No you’re not. Your only interest is ridiculing Greta and those who support her.

I don’t care how she gets to places she speaks at. Her message is more important than her mode of transport.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:06 PM   #2544
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
No you’re not. Your only interest is ridiculing Greta and those who support her.

I don’t care how she gets to places she speaks at. Her message is more important than her mode of transport.
Her message is the people she is talking to should listen to the people she is talking to.

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Old 8th November 2019, 02:15 PM   #2545
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
No you’re not. Your only interest is ridiculing Greta and those who support her.

I don’t care how she gets to places she speaks at. Her message is more important than her mode of transport.
Part of her message is that mode of transport is important. Do you agree with that message?
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:25 PM   #2546
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I'm not sure which is more laughable



The thinking they weren't making efforts for years before Greta hit your radar or that you think she prompted them.
You seem to have a knack for always missing the point
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:27 PM   #2547
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Oh yes, carbon offsets. Even Greta Thunberg knows those ae feeble and ineffective otherwise she'd be flying and using those rather than refusing to fly.



Emulate your heroes people, don't simply buy your way to salvation.
Carbon offsets can be effective.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:31 PM   #2548
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Doubt we will get one

The whole thing is a bit of a stupid endeavour with this particular event to me to be fair.

It would be a bit like a meeting of all 3 Michelin star chefs and some kid rocking up to tell them how they should try to make their food as nice as possible.
You really don’t get the concept of analogies, do you,

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Her message is the people she is talking to should listen to the people she is talking to.

Of course you are confused. You are incapable of understanding her very simple message.

Her message is the people she is talking to should listen to the people she is talking about climate scientists. Her further message is that people should not only listen to climate scientists but people should follow their advice.

Do you personally agree that people should listen to climate scientists?
Do you personally agree that people should follow the advice of climate scientists?

If you do agree with these two things then her message is valid whether you have heard it before or not.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:34 PM   #2549
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Carbon offsets can be effective.
Maybe Greta should start a GoFundMe to raise money to pay for her carbon offsets, so that she can fly around the world carrying her important message. Surely 16 years old isn't too young to start reasoning through these kinds of problems.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:35 PM   #2550
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You really don’t get the concept of analogies, do you,



Of course you are confused. You are incapable of understanding her very simple message.

Her message is the people she is talking to should listen to the people she is talking about climate scientists. Her further message is that people should not only listen to climate scientists but people should follow their advice.

Do you personally agree that people should listen to climate scientists?
Do you personally agree that people should follow the advice of climate scientists?

If you do agree with these two things then her message is valid whether you have heard it before or not.
Her message is valid. It's not a "brave campaign" though.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:38 PM   #2551
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
You seem to have a knack for always missing the point
As I said above this is his idea of wit. He gets the points. He is actually a reasonably bright person but he personally dislikes Greta Thunberg and seems to think that posts that make him appear ignorant are a clever way of criticizing her.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:48 PM   #2552
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You really don’t get the concept of analogies, do you,



Of course you are confused. You are incapable of understanding her very simple message.

Her message is the people she is talking to should listen to the people she is talking about climate scientists. Her further message is that people should not only listen to climate scientists but people should follow their advice.

Do you personally agree that people should listen to climate scientists?
Do you personally agree that people should follow the advice of climate scientists?

If you do agree with these two things then her message is valid whether you have heard it before or not.
The people she is talking

a) contains some of the scientists

b) the whole event is organised to try to deal with climate change.

Quote:
Do you personally agree that people should listen to climate scientists?
Do you personally agree that people should follow the advice of climate scientists?
Yes

But that is who she is preaching to at the event

Hence telling them to listen to themselves.......While probably yelling at them for stealing her dreams and her childhood.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:59 PM   #2553
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The people she is talking

a) contains some of the scientists

b) the whole event is organised to try to deal with climate change.
Failing to relate this to what you quoted

Quote:
Yes

But that is who she is preaching to at the event

Hence telling them to listen to themselves.......While probably yelling at them for stealing her dreams and her childhood.
She is talking to everyone that attends the event. Those that agree with her and those that may not. Those who have likely heard it all before and those who may be hearing some of this for the first time.

Probably? Your speculation means absolutely nothing. Personal dislike of Thunberg has nothing to do with her message
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:05 PM   #2554
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The amount of troll-feeding in this thread is unreal. I guess I'm glad some of you bother refuting certain posters and their claptrap, but wow, this is above and beyond in my opinion.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:14 PM   #2555
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
She is talking to everyone that attends the event. Those that agree with her and those that may not. Those who have likely heard it all before and those who may be hearing some of this for the first time.
I'm fascinated by the hypothesis that someone may be so into the climate change debate that they've made arrangements to attend, but so out of touch that there are sixteen year olds who know things they haven't heard yet.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:30 PM   #2556
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm fascinated by the hypothesis that someone may be so into the climate change debate that they've made arrangements to attend, but so out of touch that there are sixteen year olds who know things they haven't heard yet.
That does sound like an interesting hypothesis. Assuming it is yours (I have not seen anyone else here propose that) perhaps you could elaborate for us.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:45 PM   #2557
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Failing to relate this to what you quoted







She is talking to everyone that attends the event. Those that agree with her and those that may not. Those who have likely heard it all before and those who may be hearing some of this for the first time.



Probably? Your speculation means absolutely nothing. Personal dislike of Thunberg has nothing to do with her message
So there will be people at a massive climate change summit listening to climate change scientists who need to be told to listen to climate change scientists?



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Old 8th November 2019, 03:50 PM   #2558
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
So there will be people at a massive climate change summit listening to climate change scientists who need to be told to listen to climate change scientists?



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You seem to be rather distracted today. You are having trouble writing posts connected to what I have said. Perhaps you are recovering from a really Good Friday night out?
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:50 PM   #2559
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post

If her increased carbon footprint over the course of her tour influences, say, 10,000 young people to reduce theirs then that is a positive trade off. I do agree with obvious position with her old fart critics here that expecting any of them to further reduce their own carbon footprints due to her efforts is a lost cause. Fortunately many, many people think otherwise.
Reduce your carbon footprint in NOT part of Thunberg's message. Thunberg is all about imploring world leaders to listen to the climate scientists and blaming them, along with adults for the current mess we find ourselves in.

Thunberg says she doesn't fly, she doesn't suggest anybody else do the same.

Here's a way to look at things. The next time you turn the key in your car's ignition, don't think of that sound as an engine starting up, think of it as the sound of a teeny tiny volcano erupting. By turning that key you've effectively drilled a little hole miles into the Earth's crust and your letting out a little bit of carbon that's been safely sequestered away for millions of years. You might not be able to see that carbon dioxide coming out of your tailpipe, but Greta can and she's very. very angry about it.

When you step on the accelerator, thing of yourself accelerating climate change. It's just a little acceleration but it's acceleration nonetheless.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:53 PM   #2560
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Reduce your carbon footprint in NOT part of Thunberg's message. Thunberg is all about imploring world leaders to listen to the climate scientists and blaming them, along with adults for the current mess we find ourselves in.

Thunberg says she doesn't fly, she doesn't suggest anybody else do the same.

Here's a way to look at things. The next time you turn the key in your car's ignition, don't think of that sound as an engine starting up, think of it as the sound of a teeny tiny volcano erupting. By turning that key you've effectively drilled a little hole miles into the Earth's crust and your letting out a little bit of carbon that's been safely sequestered away for millions of years. You might not be able to see that carbon dioxide coming out of your tailpipe, but Greta can and she's very. very angry about it.

When you step on the accelerator, thing of yourself accelerating climate change. It's just a little acceleration but it's acceleration nonetheless.
Hey man ! I do appreciate a humerous post now and then. Thanks for this .
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