ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 30th October 2019, 11:22 AM   #41
threadworm
Graduate Poster
 
threadworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,577
Teaching about a particularly religion is not the same as basing your entire curriculum around that religion's teachings.
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to.

**************************

Apollo Hoax Debunked
threadworm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 11:43 AM   #42
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,955
Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
Teaching about a particularly religion is not the same as basing your entire curriculum around that religion's teachings.
It's also not the same thing as encouraging a particular religious practice or worship.

Also, some information for anyone who accepts even a little bit of the OP's evidence-free, patently false premise: Prayer actually is allowed in US public schools. Children who want to pray can pray. They can even form groups of students to pray together. As long as they're not creating a disturbance, especially if their mode of prayer would disrupt classes, students are absolutely free to pray at school.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 12:46 PM   #43
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,329
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's also not the same thing as encouraging a particular religious practice or worship.

Also, some information for anyone who accepts even a little bit of the OP's evidence-free, patently false premise: Prayer actually is allowed in US public schools. Children who want to pray can pray. They can even form groups of students to pray together. As long as they're not creating a disturbance, especially if their mode of prayer would disrupt classes, students are absolutely free to pray at school.
But if we don't force them to pray to the correct version of Jesus, it'll be the end of the USA!
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 12:56 PM   #44
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,391
I love that the title of this thread compares two facts that are both wrong.

Why are oranges square while EAgles are not allowed to fly?

I feel like we are witnessing an art form in the making.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 12:56 PM   #45
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,113
Originally Posted by paiute View Post
As we are making unsubstantiated claims, may I remind you that I am the Queen of England, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, Queen, Defender of the Faith.
Boring. I am the Holy Roman Emperor, despite the fact that I am neither holy nor Roman (neither were most of my predecessors).
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 12:58 PM   #46
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,113
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I love that the title of this thread compares two facts that are both wrong.

Why are oranges square while EAgles are not allowed to fly?

I feel like we are witnessing an art form in the making.
It's a reflection of how far right wing talking points have drifted away from reality. Convservatives are rapidly becoming almost as delusional as sovereign citizens.

ETA: I remember something of similar construction a few years ago. The second part of it was "when we're not allowed to say merry Christmas". I've forgotten what the first part was, but it was equally false. I think it was shared on Facebook, and I pointed out that we are, in fact, allowed to say Merry Christmas.

Last edited by CORed; 30th October 2019 at 01:13 PM.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 01:44 PM   #47
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,708
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
If a school wants to include religion in their curriculum under social studies or cultural studies they're GTG.

In the early 1960's in Catholic school we had an introduction to Japanese culture that focused on art and the Japanese tea ceremony.

My uncle who had lived through the Pacific beach tours 42-45 was not amused.
When I came home on leave in 1974 riding a Honda CB500/4, my father was very disappointed - not because I bought a motorcycle, but because I bought a Japanese motorcycle rather than a British one.
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 01:48 PM   #48
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,934
It reminds me of a Jeselnik joke.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 03:45 PM   #49
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,933
Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Boring. I am the Holy Roman Emperor, despite the fact that I am neither holy nor Roman (neither were most of my predecessors).
Paraphrasing Voltaire, I see.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 03:47 PM   #50
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,933
Apparently the OP never heard of Comparative Religions 101..
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 03:50 PM   #51
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,933
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
And it is a pretty clear and fundamental distinction too, in my opinion; but some would like to ignore it for rhetorical reasons.
Though I think it's pretty revealing about where the OP is coming from...

This is what is scary. The OP has never shown much interest in religion before, but since he became a 100% dedicated supporter of Donald Trump,he seems to have considerable hostility toward Islam. He must follow in the footsteps of Dear Leader, I guess.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 04:00 PM   #52
d4m10n
Illuminator
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I love that the title of this thread compares two facts that are both wrong.
It would be a fun exercise to rewrite the title so as to include zero factual errors.

"Why are American public schoolchildren allowed to learn about the religions of the world from a neutral and secular perspective while at the same time public school teachers are not allowed lead students in sectarian prayers?"

Well **** when I put it that way it sort of hangs together.
__________________
I'm a happy SINner on the Skeptic Ink Network!
Background Probability: Against Irrationality, Innumeracy, and Ignobility
http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 04:19 PM   #53
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,329
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I love that the title of this thread compares two facts that are both wrong.

Why are oranges square while EAgles are not allowed to fly?

I feel like we are witnessing an art form in the making.
It's just a standard JAQing point of the religious right. Because they are so horribly persecuted.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 04:57 PM   #54
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,922
Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
And while we’re at it, why is there a Black History Month but no White History Month?
The last time some dork said this I reminded him that the other 11 months were obviously white history month; in the USA anyway.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 05:31 PM   #55
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,807
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
But if we don't force them to pray to the correct version of Jesus, it'll be the end of the USA!
The lily-white hippy dude in the long robes seems to be America’s favourite Jesus. Or is it the almost naked lily-white hippy guy hanging from a cross with blood all over him? Surely not the short swarthy dark haired Jewish chap that looked like all the other men in first century Israel.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 07:47 PM   #56
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,329
(((Jesus))) is a damn commie hippie librul!
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 05:16 AM   #57
DuvalHMFIC
Graduate Poster
 
DuvalHMFIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,276
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
The lily-white hippy dude in the long robes seems to be America’s favourite Jesus. Or is it the almost naked lily-white hippy guy hanging from a cross with blood all over him? Surely not the short swarthy dark haired Jewish chap that looked like all the other men in first century Israel.
I'm a Real American™ so I prefer the mormon version of Jesus
__________________
Ben is sick ladies and gentlemen, thats right, Ben is sick.
DuvalHMFIC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 05:27 AM   #58
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,901
Why are Holocaust Studies taught in public schools when children are not allowed to espouse editorials from Der Stürmer?

Why do the cats in "Cats" get to sing on Broadway when real cats aren't allowed to?

Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 06:46 AM   #59
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,807
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Why are Holocaust Studies taught in public schools when children are not allowed to espouse editorials from Der Stürmer?

Why do the cats in "Cats" get to sing on Broadway when real cats aren't allowed to?

Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?
Just like me, they want to be..........
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 08:28 AM   #60
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,272
I went to Catholic school, so we prayed every morning in high school. Students who belonged to other faiths were allowed to sit quietly during prayer times, but they still had to take the required religion classes with everybody else.

In a separate class that focused on anthropology, then, we learned about the basics of other common world religions, including Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

How does that information fit into your silly claim, OP?


Also, I know other people have said it, but for god's sake - prayer is NOT banned in public schools! The teachers/principals/whatever are not permitted to compel students to pray (whereas my school could and did). Students at public schools are allowed to pray on their own any time they please, including in groups. What is so hard to understand about that?

Last edited by isissxn; 31st October 2019 at 08:30 AM.
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 09:21 AM   #61
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,434
The OP didn't provide a specific case, but one I have heard recently is a guy who sued because they were learning about Islam in school, and one of the questions on an exam asked to provide the Shahada, one of the 5 pillars of the Muslim religion ("There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger")

It is a reasonable question to ask if you want to know how much a student knows about Islam. It wouldn't be even out of the realm to ask them to list all 5 pillars.

The student sued because they claimed they couldn't even write that in response to the question "What is the Islamic statement known as the Shahada?"

The lawyer was whining, "Would they ever ask anyone to write The Lord's Prayer?"

It's such a dumb situation.
1) As noted, schools are allowed to teach ABOUT religion, and clearly the question was asked in the context of assessing what the student knows about Islam. There is no claim that the school insisted it was true or anything, or that anyone should believe it, just that they are expected to know it as part of the class.
2) If there were a course teaching _about Christianity_, I don't know that the Lord's Prayer would be an appropriate thing to memorize (that's not really a pillar of Christianity or anything), but it depends on the context. You could certainly have a question asking "What is the prayer taught by Jesus in the Sermon on Mount called?" and that would be fair. Even if you went with "Write the prayer taught by Jesus in the Sermon the Mount" it wouldn't be too bad, especially if you had a section describing the features of the Sermon on the Mount. It wouldn't make as much sense in just teaching about Christianity, though
3) More to the point, what would be the objective of making sure the students learned the Lord's Prayer? This is where the thing falls apart. It's not that it's an illegal question, it's that it's a poor pedagogical question. Considering the fact that the students are predominantly Christian already, it's a pointless question to ask them to write the Lord's Prayer.**** In the same way, if it was a class learning about Islam, and it was a classroom of mostly Muslim kids, then asking the Shahada would be equally worthless. I spend way too much time these days worrying about things like learning objectives, but there is a point to it. What is the purpose of the question?

***Hey, if Christian kids want to write the Lord's prayer in a Intro to Christianity, ask them about the addition of the doxology ("for thine is the kingdom, power and glory now and forever") to the Lord's Prayer. It's not in that part of the bible. When you answer that question, you can't write the Lord's Prayer all you want.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 03:23 PM   #62
Joe Random
Master Poster
 
Joe Random's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,135
I agree with the OP - prayer should be allowed in school.

Joe Random is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 03:55 PM   #63
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,933
Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
I agree with the OP - prayer should be allowed in school.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...b5ec193cda.jpg
Join the Campus Crusade For Cthuluhu today!
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 04:38 PM   #64
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,329
63 posts and the OP hasn't been back. Either A) Threads auto-close when they hit page 3 without a return by the OP or B) Once page 3 is reached only mockery of the OP is allowed.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2019, 05:26 PM   #65
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,826
nm
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

Last edited by eerok; 31st October 2019 at 05:33 PM.
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 06:44 AM   #66
phiwum
Penultimate Amazing
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,249
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
63 posts and the OP hasn't been back. Either A) Threads auto-close when they hit page 3 without a return by the OP or B) Once page 3 is reached only mockery of the OP is allowed.
Yes, I'd say this wasn't even an attempt at a serious argument. Say something just butt stupid and watch others jump in to say it's butt stupid. Somehow, this makes you smart.

Ha ha! I can make you say I'm stupid! That makes me a Puppetmaster!
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 06:52 AM   #67
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 29,828
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
63 posts and the OP hasn't been back.
Worse than that, 66 posts and nobody's mentioned the concept of the complex question. This is either a failure of skepticism or a failure of pedantry.

Dave
__________________
Inspiring discussion of Sharknado is not a good sign for the audience expectations of your new high-concept SF movie sequel.

- Myriad
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 07:24 AM   #68
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,272
OP has started a very similar thread in Community.
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 08:42 AM   #69
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,329
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
OP has started a very similar thread in Community.
And hasn't returned to that one, either.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 09:07 AM   #70
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,218
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Mutliculturalism is a mechanation of the PC agenda.
Depends what you mean by it.

Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Out of curiosity, who do you think came up with the term 'Xtian'?
https://www.dictionary.com/e/xmas-christogram/

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
XTIAN is not a valid word.
You should tell Christians that, since they're the ones who started using it.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 09:08 AM   #71
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,218
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Join the Campus Crusade For Cthuluhu today!
Fhtagn.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 09:27 AM   #72
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 21,231
Originally Posted by paiute View Post
As we are making unsubstantiated claims, may I remind you that I am the Queen of England, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, Queen, Defender of the Faith.
You're sixty six years late.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

Last edited by catsmate; 1st November 2019 at 09:35 AM.
catsmate is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 09:44 AM   #73
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,807
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
You're sixty six years late.
You think the rest of paiute's claim is valid then?
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 10:35 AM   #74
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 13,959
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Depends what you mean by it.



https://www.dictionary.com/e/xmas-christogram/



You should tell Christians that, since they're the ones who started using it.
Exactly where I was headed with that, Belz… Modern Christians react as if it's an insult, when it's actually an abbreviation they came up with themselves. It's NOT some secular attempt to remove the name Christ.

But the one commonality I've found among the fanatically faithful (or perhaps, more correctly, the most vocal faithful) is that seem to carry, at best, a superficial understanding of the history of their religion and things associated with it. The Xtian term is a perfect example. Also things like the belief that the Biblical Jesus was mentioned in contemporary historical texts of the time, and so on. Oversimplifications of incorrect information that's about as "based on a true story" as a made-for-TV movie.
__________________
Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together. - Eugene Ionesco
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 10:46 AM   #75
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,320
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Exactly where I was headed with that, Belz… Modern Christians react as if it's an insult, when it's actually an abbreviation they came up with themselves. It's NOT some secular attempt to remove the name Christ.

But the one commonality I've found among the fanatically faithful (or perhaps, more correctly, the most vocal faithful) is that seem to carry, at best, a superficial understanding of the history of their religion and things associated with it. The Xtian term is a perfect example. Also things like the belief that the Biblical Jesus was mentioned in contemporary historical texts of the time, and so on. Oversimplifications of incorrect information that's about as "based on a true story" as a made-for-TV movie.
These are the people who think the “War on Christmas” was an actual thing.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 12:03 PM   #76
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 20,792
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
***Hey, if Christian kids want to write the Lord's prayer in a Intro to Christianity, ask them about the addition of the doxology ("for thine is the kingdom, power and glory now and forever") to the Lord's Prayer. It's not in that part of the bible. When you answer that question, you can't write the Lord's Prayer all you want.
For a while there I went to a few Catholic weddings. Of course, the Our Father is part of the litany -- it includes the doxology in a different format ("For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever"), which comes as a response after the main prayer and a long blessing by the priest. I was always amused and waited to pick out the Lutherans and such when it got to "Deliver us from evil."
The Catholic finish to that section is simply "Amen."
The Lutherans in the crowd would always finish with "For thi..." and trail off because the Catholic people had already shut up. Confused looks abounded.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 12:11 PM   #77
ahhell
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,697
I suggest we shouldn't post anything more in this thread until some evidence of the OP is actually put forward.

I could just as well start a thread asking why is acupuncture taught in public schools but chiropractic not?
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 12:34 PM   #78
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,807
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I suggest we shouldn't post anything more in this thread until some evidence of the OP is actually put forward.

I could just as well start a thread asking why is acupuncture taught in public schools but chiropractic not?


Something I have often wondered. May we could discuss while we wait for the op to return.

I think it’s because who doesn’t like sticking needles in people!!
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 12:40 PM   #79
Joe Random
Master Poster
 
Joe Random's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,135
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
These are the people who think the “War on Christmas” was an actual thing.

If there's no War on Christmas then why would we need a Salvation Army, hey? CHECKMATE, ATHEISTS!!!1!
Joe Random is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2019, 12:42 PM   #80
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,329
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You think the rest of paiute's claim is valid then?
Of course not. He left out "Empress of India".

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
For a while there I went to a few Catholic weddings. Of course, the Our Father is part of the litany -- it includes the doxology in a different format ("For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever"), which comes as a response after the main prayer and a long blessing by the priest. I was always amused and waited to pick out the Lutherans and such when it got to "Deliver us from evil."
The Catholic finish to that section is simply "Amen."
The Lutherans in the crowd would always finish with "For thi..." and trail off because the Catholic people had already shut up. Confused looks abounded.
I grew up in a church which used "debts" instead of "trespasses". I still get confused on the rare occasions I wind up in church.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:00 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.