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Old 27th November 2020, 10:55 AM   #2241
Captain_Swoop
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TechnicallyRon tweeted
@TechnicallyRon

"We just want a vaccine"
"MAKE IT PATRIOTIC"
"Why"
"CALL IT FREEDOM SAUCE"
"please just the vaccine"
"MAKE IT PLAY GOD SAVE THE QUEEN WHEN YOU OPEN IT"
"But"
"DOCTORS MUST DRESS AS BEEFEATERS WHILST INJECTING IT"
"can't we be a normal country"
"MAKE IT SMELL LIKE BREXIT"
"how"
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:01 AM   #2242
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Iain Duncan Smith tweets

@MPIainDS
Boris needs a good explanation for these Tiers or he will lose both his MPs and the country. The onerous new rules will have a disastrous effect on business and public morale. Where is the economic analysis we were promised?
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Old 27th November 2020, 03:54 PM   #2243
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"More than 1,300 wrongly told they have Covid after Test and Trace lab error
Government’s service voids results after problem with testing chemicals discovered"

World beating.

link
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Old 28th November 2020, 05:25 AM   #2244
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If they do this through political expediency then IMO they deserve to be heavily criticised
Yes, I haven't agreed with everything they have done since Starmer have taken over, but over all they've been in my "good" camp. If they fight against lockdown in order to weaken the Tories - especially after having criticised the government for not instituting a lockdown, then they'll definitely move to my "bad" camp.

Christ alone knows who I'll vote for in the next election then, if Starmer is still leader.
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Old 28th November 2020, 05:27 AM   #2245
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
"More than 1,300 wrongly told they have Covid after Test and Trace lab error
Government’s service voids results after problem with testing chemicals discovered"

World beating.

link
Whereas I'm still getting notifications for someone else, telling them that they have tested negative.
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Old 28th November 2020, 03:59 PM   #2246
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Indie Sage has advice for schools.
https://www.independentsage.org/wp-c...hools-v4b1.pdf
We need to things like warmer clothing for more ventilation. Better track & trace run locally, no exams for primary kids.... Lots basically.
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Old 28th November 2020, 04:35 PM   #2247
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No track and trace. That's just voyeurism. What is needed is test and trace.
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Old 28th November 2020, 05:20 PM   #2248
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MPs raise concerns over vaccine supply after Pfizer shuts cold storage site

The Pfizer global supply site in Havant is closing with packaging operations transferred to Puurs in Belgium, which will be one of two production hubs for the company's coronavirus vaccine

Concerns have been raised about the risk of disruption to supplies of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine and added costs after the drugs company shut a cold storage facility in the south of England ahead of the end of the Brexit transition period next month.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...site-7pv57ztrr
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Old 29th November 2020, 07:28 AM   #2249
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John Redwood tweets

@johnredwood
Why not open and staff all the Nightingale hospital capacity they need for CV 19 cases and get the rest of the NHS back to full capacity for everything else? No need to scare us with the idea the NHS will not cope.
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Old 29th November 2020, 08:01 AM   #2250
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
MPs raise concerns over vaccine supply after Pfizer shuts cold storage site

The Pfizer global supply site in Havant is closing with packaging operations transferred to Puurs in Belgium, which will be one of two production hubs for the company's coronavirus vaccine

Concerns have been raised about the risk of disruption to supplies of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine and added costs after the drugs company shut a cold storage facility in the south of England ahead of the end of the Brexit transition period next month.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...site-7pv57ztrr
If only this had been foreseeable...
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Old 29th November 2020, 08:42 AM   #2251
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
You're unaware that the UK Govt has actually pre-ordered 350 million doses of Covid-19 vaccine from 6 different biopharma companies?

In other words, 250 million of the UK's 350 million pre-ordered doses are not from AstraZeneca.....
Look. The news is that the government has ordered 20,000,000 Pfizer vaccines. This is likely to get the green light within the next three weeks or so. The other vaccines are a long way off! Sanofi and GSK are not expected until circa June 2021. AIUI - although the news updates all the time - the Trump administration secured the lion's share of the Pfizer vaccines. I am guessing the UK were allowed a nominal number. Think about it: 20m doses will only suffice for ten million people in a population of 67m. (As an aside it appears to be earmarked initially for NHS staff as it'll be stored on their premises, or very vulnerable care home residents, and not the general public, including the obese, the elderly and those with underlying serious conditions). In other words the Pfizer vaccine is not available to the public at any time for the near future. The initial production lines are aimed at the USA:

Quote:
The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services previously said it would pay Pfizer and biotech firm BioNTech $1.95 billion to produce and deliver 100 million doses of their Covid-19 vaccine with the option to acquire 500 million additional doses. HHS later announced it would give Johnson & Johnson more than $1 billion for 100 million doses with the option for an additional 200 million.

HHS also struck a deal with Sanofi and GlaxoSmithKline for up to $2.1 billion to develop and deliver 100 million doses of their potential coronavirus vaccine with the option to acquire an additional 500 million doses.
CNBC

Matt Hancock has asked the UK medical regulators to speed the Astrazeneca one through but there is no way it will be available until well after Christmas IMV, probably not until well into the New Year IF it passes the standards.


To my mind this is pure 'reassuring the public', see, for example, Alok Sharma's puff piece about how delighted he is over his coffee this morning. It is just an exercise in public relations. Call me cynical but the Pfizer vaccine will not be widely available or the Moderna one to the general British public for quite a long time, regardless of how many orders the government announces it has made.

The Moderna one will not be available 'until early Spring' (read April or May):

Quote:
The UK government has today (Sunday 29 November) signed a deal for a further 2 million doses of Moderna’s promising vaccine candidate, bringing the total to 7 million doses for the UK.

Following today’s deal, the UK now has access to enough doses of Moderna’s vaccine candidate for around 3.5 million people.

To be approved for use in the UK, the Moderna vaccine must meet the strict standards of safety and effectiveness of the independent medicines regulator, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA). If it is approved, 7 million doses could start to be delivered to the UK as early as spring 2021 - the same timetable as other countries in Europe.
UK.Gov


The EU aren't expecting to undertake mass vaccinations until the new year so all the excitement about Oxford/Astrazeneca being ready in the UK as 'early as 7 Dec 2020' is either (a) pure hype, or (b) an overly hasty roll out. I suspect the former. OK, it's an emergency...
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Old 29th November 2020, 08:50 AM   #2252
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
Is that intended to be a personal attack?
Being called patriotic is now a 'personal attack'?
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Old 29th November 2020, 09:47 AM   #2253
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Will you be providing evidence to support the highlighted claim? That the 70% figure was announced, and the market reaction prompted a second press release? Because that's not what I saw happen.
Let's just say I follow the financial news out of habit. I didn't realise I ought to have collated evidence for those of us who do not. However, it has been since explained that the reason the Astrazeneca guy drew attention to the subset result is because 'financial rules means he was obliged to', according to one report. I am not sure that is correct as you only need to announce a 'profit warning' unless that is what he was actually doing. So whilst people were wondering why he would announce a subset figure which appears to undermine the integrity of the 70% figure, it can be explained as him trying to rescue the fall in share price at Astrazeneca being seemingly declared less effective than Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna, and this is the way I saw it. The chap seems a bit of an idiot, unless he indeed was obliged to say what he did say.

Quote:
The dosing error had previously been reported by the Daily Mirror back in June, describing it “as a huge embarrassment for the Oxford Covid-19 vaccine trial.”

Jones, who has been following the trials closely, was quoted at the time, saying he was “surprised” by the error and worried that it might have “an impact upon the clarity of the trial.”

He told ABC News Thursday: “The data in the press release does not invite the public's trust."

“I do not worry that the vaccine is unsafe, all the evidence is that it is," he continued. "But I do worry that if we don't know exactly why the different doses performed as they did, there can be no guarantee that the correct dose will be used going forward. The public need complete openness, what are they going to get and how protected will they be?”

Despite the criticism and confusion that followed Monday’s announcement, the British government is backing the vaccine, with its chief scientific adviser, Patrick Vallance, saying Thursday, “The headline result is the vaccine works and that’s very exciting.”

Some damage, however, has clearly been done. AstraZeneca’s stock price has fallen while competitors Pfizer/BioNtech and Moderna have experienced gains.
ABC

So, not a 'flight of fancy' as the press appear to agree with me.


Quote:
Laith Khalaf, financial analyst for AJ Bell, said the hit to AstraZeneca’s share price was likely to be “kneejerk” reaction from the initial announcement.

He said: “Pfizer got there first, but as we know we will need a number of vaccines and I would have thought the market might view this more positively across the sector as a whole.

“I imagine there are probably some more speculative investors who have been spreading chips across the pharma companies looking to hit the one that makes the big time first, and maybe they are now taking their money off the table.”
Evening Standard

The unspoken rule of business is that you do not do or say anything that undermines your business (think: Gerald Ratner) and the explanation for the Astrazeneca suit appearing to do just that - although he saw it as a 'rescue attempt' - is a weak 'he was obliged to' by financial rules.
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Old 29th November 2020, 11:06 AM   #2254
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
John Redwood tweets

@johnredwood
Why not open and staff all the Nightingale hospital capacity they need for CV 19 cases and get the rest of the NHS back to full capacity for everything else? No need to scare us with the idea the NHS will not cope.
This household, consisting of a retired senior nurse and a retired NHS payroll and IT bod, asked right at the start of the whole Nightingale thing where the folk to staff them would come from, given that existing frontline services are all pretty much at the limit of what they can do after the assaults on budgets and staffing levels since 2010, not to mention the cuts to nursing training places. We still haven't heard a convincing answer...Maybe Redwood knows about a magic nurse and doctor tree somewhere?
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Old 29th November 2020, 12:38 PM   #2255
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
This household, consisting of a retired senior nurse and a retired NHS payroll and IT bod, asked right at the start of the whole Nightingale thing where the folk to staff them would come from, given that existing frontline services are all pretty much at the limit of what they can do after the assaults on budgets and staffing levels since 2010, not to mention the cuts to nursing training places. We still haven't heard a convincing answer...Maybe Redwood knows about a magic nurse and doctor tree somewhere?
We'll just get them in from the EU.....

.....oh, never mind
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Old 29th November 2020, 01:24 PM   #2256
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
This household, consisting of a retired senior nurse and a retired NHS payroll and IT bod, asked right at the start of the whole Nightingale thing where the folk to staff them would come from, given that existing frontline services are all pretty much at the limit of what they can do after the assaults on budgets and staffing levels since 2010, not to mention the cuts to nursing training places. We still haven't heard a convincing answer...Maybe Redwood knows about a magic nurse and doctor tree somewhere?
I thought part of the plan was to get newly retired NHS staff, plus forces medics, plus just about to qualify students to help man up the hospitals. Then there were suggestions of volunteers, such as myself as an ex-cop who is used to dead bodies assisting with certain tasks, such as the pop up mortuaries that also appeared.
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Old 30th November 2020, 02:49 AM   #2257
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Redwood has solution to the NHS England struggling to cope with the pandemic and carry on its usual work.

HuffPost UK: Tory MP Makes Jaws Drop With Tweet About Opening Nightingale Hospitals.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b68ca87f850f42

All we need to do is fully open the Nightingale hospitals to deal with just the pandemic!

Next he will offer his solution to the national debt, why don't they just pay it back!
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Old 30th November 2020, 04:06 AM   #2258
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Everything you need to know about the psychopathy of the Telegraph is summed up in the 'good fiscal news' headline.

To save clicking on the tweet, the headline in question is: Government saves £600m on state pension payments as Covid deaths surge.
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Old 30th November 2020, 04:12 AM   #2259
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Everything you need to know about the psychopathy of the Telegraph is summed up in the 'good fiscal news' headline.

To save clicking on the tweet, the headline in question is: Government saves £600m on state pension payments as Covid deaths surge.
One of the most disgusting and callous headlines in recent memory. More fitting to the DAILY STAR.
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Old 30th November 2020, 05:18 AM   #2260
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I thought part of the plan was to get newly retired NHS staff, plus forces medics, plus just about to qualify students to help man up the hospitals. Then there were suggestions of volunteers, such as myself as an ex-cop who is used to dead bodies assisting with certain tasks, such as the pop up mortuaries that also appeared.
Snags with that is that unless they changed the rules recent retirees could screw up their pensions (this is assuming they have relevant and up to date skills), there are professional accountability questions about using students in that manner, likewise with volunteers (one of my old managers was always after us to use volunteers; we kept refusing because of supervision and accountability issues, not to mention the specialist nature of most of our work - FFS I couldn't find enough work for a Band 5 staff nurse).

It's not a very good plan and sounds like one thought up by someone who knows nothing about the NHS and nursing in particular.
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Old 30th November 2020, 06:12 AM   #2261
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We're having increased restrictions placed on us in Wales from Friday.
  • No alcohol in pubs, cafes or restaurants
  • They must close after 6pm
  • Takeaway service for food and non-alcoholic drinks allowed after 6pm
  • No further restrictions for shops, gyms and so on

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55128305

These are similar restrictions to those in Level 3 in Scotland

I was planning to meet up for a pint with a neighbour on Thursday. I might knock that on the head - the place is likely to be packed.

I suspect that this will mean that people will meet illegally in their houses leading up to Christmas rather than in pubs and restaurants. If so, I don't know what the impact on Covid cases is likely to be.
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Old 30th November 2020, 04:51 PM   #2262
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If people are discerning about who they visit or allow to visit them, and they drastically limit the number of other households they mix with like that, it might not be too bad. What are the chances?
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Old 30th November 2020, 05:06 PM   #2263
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Labour abstaining on the tier vote tomorrow.
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Old 30th November 2020, 11:15 PM   #2264
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Labour abstaining on the tier vote tomorrow.
Both Labour and the SNP are abstaining because they have serious misgivings about the policy but won't vote against the policy- the government accuse them of playing politics and say that they should work with the government.

OTOH there's no criticism whatsoever of the Tory backbenchers who are voting against the government. Boris Johnson is a coward and a hypocrite (but I guess that's not news to anybody paying attention)
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Old 1st December 2020, 04:32 AM   #2265
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Isn't it the job of politicians, especially the Govt opposition to 'play politics'?
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Old 1st December 2020, 04:33 AM   #2266
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Gove on the radio 'admits' the growing numbers of antivaxers could be a problem.

Maybe he shouldn't have spent 4 years undermining and denigrating experts to get Brexit over the line.
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Old 1st December 2020, 09:53 AM   #2267
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Gove on the radio 'admits' the growing numbers of antivaxers could be a problem.

Maybe he shouldn't have spent 4 years undermining and denigrating experts to get Brexit over the line.

Never mind that, he’s still working on whether scotch eggs count as a “substantial meal” and if so how many.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-michael-gove

At the moment it seems that one scotch egg is a substantial meal, but two aren’t.
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Old 1st December 2020, 09:58 AM   #2268
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Never mind that, he’s still working on whether scotch eggs count as a “substantial meal” and if so how many.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-michael-gove

At the moment it seems that one scotch egg is a substantial meal, but two aren’t.
.....and it completely undermines the intent of the rule which is to allow the hospitality industry to limp along but to stop people from going out for a session.

edited to add....

Mind he is a hungry man if he thinks that two Scotch eggs is a starter - unless he's thinking quail's eggs.

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Old 1st December 2020, 10:09 AM   #2269
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The problem really isn’t that the government aren’t doing enough to fight the virus, or enough to protect the economy, but that they’re taking action that damages the economy but fails to adequately control the virus.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 01:46 AM   #2270
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https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/...31239863541760

Quote:
HUGE: the Pfizer vaccine will be made available in the UK from next week, after the Medicines and Healthcare Regulatory Agency (MHRA) approved it for use here. Statement from the Dept of Heath here

This means the UK is the first country to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine for use.

It has a 95% efficacy, and the UK has pre-ordered 40 million doses (enough for 20 million people).

Matt Hancock says there will be three locations for the vaccine rollout:

1. Hospitals, he says 50 hospitals are already 'set up and waiting to receive the vaccine'

2. Vaccination centres which are 'being setup now'

3. Community rollout - GPs and pharmacists.

Matt Hancock tells
@LBC
the prioritisation order (deciding who gets the vaccine first) will be published later this morning, based on age/ vulnerabilities.
Document embedded in first tweet.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 03:53 AM   #2271
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Let's just say I follow the financial news out of habit. I didn't realise I ought to have collated evidence for those of us who do not. However, it has been since explained that the reason the Astrazeneca guy drew attention to the subset result is because 'financial rules means he was obliged to', according to one report. I am not sure that is correct as you only need to announce a 'profit warning' unless that is what he was actually doing.
Not sure where you got your information on this from but companies have a responsibility to disclose any information which they have which may lead to a substantial share price variation.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 03:55 AM   #2272
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I thought part of the plan was to get newly retired NHS staff, plus forces medics, plus just about to qualify students to help man up the hospitals. Then there were suggestions of volunteers, such as myself as an ex-cop who is used to dead bodies assisting with certain tasks, such as the pop up mortuaries that also appeared.
I think that this government needs to learn that talking about a plan and suggesting things that 'could' happen doesn't make them happen.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 03:59 AM   #2273
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/...31239863541760

Document embedded in first tweet.
Surely the first to be vaccinated should be those who are most likely to be spreaders? The elderly and vulnerable are mostly staying at home anyway.

Seems to me you want hospital shop and pub staff vaccinated and other essential workers.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 11:09 AM   #2274
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The very elderly in care homes who are being looked after by people who have lives in the community are hugely at risk, as the death toll in that group demonstrates.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 11:54 AM   #2275
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The very elderly in care homes who are being looked after by people who have lives in the community are hugely at risk, as the death toll in that group demonstrates.

Yes, but are they going to pass it on? Wouldn’t it be better to stop it getting there by vaccinating the staff? That way they benefit, and the other people the staff come into contact with also benefit.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 04:03 AM   #2276
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If you only vaccinate the staff then what about family of the residents? They would still not be able to visit unless you vaccinate them, too.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 04:17 AM   #2277
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Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng View Post
If you only vaccinate the staff then what about family of the residents? They would still not be able to visit unless you vaccinate them, too.
Well yes why not? Put them up near the top of the list.

I don't know what the modelling has shown but it seems to stand to reason to me that if you vaccinate the spreaders then you reduce the prevalence of the virus much more significantly than vaccinating the vulnerable.

but I suppose the maths is based on numbers that at least I am only guessing at in terms of doses available, speed of rollout and the sizes of groups etc.

My thought was just if we spend the next 6 months vaccinating the vulnerable then by the middle of next year we are going to be no further on in terms of the impact on day to day life, the prevalence of the virus in society and progress towards 'normality'.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 04:30 AM   #2278
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The rules in Wales have changed again.

We're now allowed to travel to Tier 1 and Tier 2 areas in England for non-essential reasons.

Pubs in Wales must close at 6 and cannot serve alcohol. Pubs in England in Tiers 1 and 2 are not so restricted. Those of us living in border regions can now go to the pub in England if we want to.

In the village of Redbrook, one pub is in England, the other, across the River Wye on a footbridge, is in Wales. The residents of Redbrook haven't gone thirsty so far.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 05:12 AM   #2279
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
We're now allowed to travel to Tier 1 and Tier 2 areas in England for non-essential reasons.
Better hope you don't need to go there for anything essential then.

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Old 3rd December 2020, 05:28 AM   #2280
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Better hope you don't need to go there for anything essential then.

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