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Old 27th February 2021, 04:18 PM   #41
Airfix
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Sanders Roe Jet Flying Boat Fighter anyone?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12764
Test flown by Eric Winkle Brown, unfortunately it didn't offer enough performance compared with land based designs.

He also carried out the first carrier landing of a jet fighter and the first carrier landing of a DeHavilland Mosquito.
https://miro.medium.com/proxy/0*iWooDhjPILY4_QRk.jpg

Going by interviews with the man, his carrier landing of the Mosquito took particular skill.
The necessary landing speed was below the stall speed of the Mosquito, even with flaps down!

Last edited by Airfix; 27th February 2021 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 27th February 2021, 04:37 PM   #42
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25 minute film from 1975 aboard Ark Royal. Phantoms, Buccaneers (the best aircraft ever) and Gannet AEWs.

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Old 27th February 2021, 04:40 PM   #43
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A Gannet would have made all the difference to the air war in the Falklands!

Originally an anti submarine aircraft it was converted to airborne air warning.

It had a unique 'double mamba' engine.
Two turbo props on a single gearbox powering two props on a common centre line.
One could be shut down for cruising.

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Old 27th February 2021, 04:43 PM   #44
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The carrier film is truly brilliant.
Such efficiency on the deck!

Arrestor wires last 30 catches and launch bridles 50.

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 27th February 2021 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 27th February 2021, 04:54 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Some British companies still making planes out of wood at that time as well, but how beautiful is this one by DeHavilland?

The Dragon Rapide is quite nice as well - very 1930s. And still to be seen occasionally.
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Old 27th February 2021, 05:10 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
The Dragon Rapide is quite nice as well - very 1930s. And still to be seen occasionally.
Agreed.


Took this photo at St Mawgan in 2014 when it was home to the Classic Air Force museum and they used to offer pleasure flights in it.

It's now home to the Cornwall Aviation Heritage centre and the scope is a bit more limited.
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Old 27th February 2021, 05:15 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A Gannet would have made all the difference to the air war in the Falklands!

Originally an anti submarine aircraft it was converted to airborne air warning.

It had a unique 'double mamba' engine.
Two turbo props on a single gearbox powering two props on a common centre line.
One could be shut down for cruising.

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If we'd had the Gannet in the Falklands we'd have had Phantoms and Buccaneers as well.
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And the Blackburn Buccaneers were awesome.
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If we'd still had the older Ark Royal, Buccaneers could have carried out the Black Buck raids instead of the Vulcans.

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Old 27th February 2021, 05:21 PM   #48
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Buccaneers are one of the outstanding aircraft.

Strict 'Area Rule'!
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Old 27th February 2021, 05:41 PM   #49
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They have revolving bomb bays, really impressive low level flying capabilities and best of all, they're just utterly beautiful.
I sometimes visit Elvington where they are powered up from time to time.

Another aircraft they have there is the Handley Page Victor, and I've met one of the wing design team of the Victor.
A guy called Geoffrey Griffiths.
Sadly he passed away the other year but I met him at an event back in 2014.
You're probably aware that with swept wings the stall speed changes as it goes down the wing, and fairly complicated mathematics is necessary to get the angles of incidence right.

They didn't have computers, all they had was slide rules and log tables.
And they produced an amazing and badass looking bomber, in my view, the most badass looking of all the V bombers, and whilst it wasn't designed for supersonic flight, it was capable of it.
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Old 28th February 2021, 03:57 AM   #50
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This is a historical video of Sutton Bank, taken in the 1930's.
Glider maker Fred Slingsby used to fly there.
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I am not a member there but I sometimes fly there myself via reciprocal membership, they're a very friendly club and they have a great bar

And this is Robert Kronfeld, he was an experienced glider pilot and test pilot.
He was also a designer of aircraft, a peer of Alexander Schleicher and Wolf Hirth.
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He was Austrian, he came over here after the Nazis came to power and occupied his country.

He joined the Royal Air Force in WW2 and test flew British prototype gliders including the Baynes Bat (a Slingsby built concept for turning tanks into gliders).

After the war he became a British citizen.

Sadly he was killed test flying an experimental flying wing during stalling trials but his legacy remains. He was one of the first to use a vario and developed the techniques all soaring pilots now follow.
He wrote a book on the subject, which can be read online here:
https://www.sailplaneandgliding.co.u...ng-and-soaring
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Old 28th February 2021, 07:50 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by The Common Potato View Post
I was on a skiing holiday in Tonale aka toe nail! in Italy, in the early 1980s, when I heard the noise of a fast jet. Naturally, I looked up. Nothing to be seen. I carried on skiing and saw a pair of F-104s screaming along the valley below me!
You used to get this most days in Snowdonia, I was told. While on a CCF trip scrambling Glyder Fawr, we had a couple of Hawks fly below us, really close. On the way back down, a bit further away, a Hercules at about our level. The instructor said some days they got Tornados doing low level practice flying.
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Old 28th February 2021, 11:26 AM   #52
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If you want low flying you need to be in Wales.

the famous 'Mach Loop'
Get high on the valley sides and you are looking down on the aircraft.

Lots of footage on Youtube

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Old 28th February 2021, 11:48 AM   #53
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I was surprised when I learned that that flying course was not named after the physicist that the speed was named after. It's a nickname that that area, and particularly a nearby town, has had since before it started getting used this way. The full name is Machynlleth.

I did once get to see a couple of A-10s flying low between hills like that, while I was driving home one day from Harrisburg PA to Duncannon PA along the Susquehanna River.
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Old 28th February 2021, 01:00 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I used to visit a website called "strange planes" or some such which had lots of photos (some fake) of, well, strange planes. I noticed that many of the strangest seemed to be British.
Luft 46 is still online, though it hasn't been updated in a while.
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Old 28th February 2021, 03:14 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Speaking of firefighters, hereís a cool article from a while back about TBM Avengers that served as firefighters in Canada. I actually had my hands on one of these aircraft a bit helping clean it up for restoration after it retired from that job.

People tend to think of single engine propeller planes itís not being very big. Avengers are very big. And I donít mean just the Hulk.
No kidding. I was somewhat aware of the Avenger but didn't really know about its characteristics. Then I read Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors and noted how the Avengers would fake torpedo runs on the Japanese craft to force them into evasive maneuvers. I wasn't aware the torpedoes were internal and had bay doors the enemy could see, but not well enough if there wasn't a torpedo there. So I looked up an online video (Military Aviation History I think) where they toured an Avenger. Those things are HUGE. I've had apartments smaller than their interiors. I'm amazed they could land on WW2 Carrier decks.
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Old 28th February 2021, 04:11 PM   #56
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Avengers fitted for Anti Submarine 'Search and Destroy' missions were operated by the RN Fleet Air Arm up until 1954 when they were replaced by the Gannet. They served on in Reserve squadrons till 1957 when the squadrons were disbanded and they were sold to the French.
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Old 28th February 2021, 11:42 PM   #57
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I might just hijack this thread quickly for an aircraft identification. Spotted at the National Museum of Malaysia, without any plaque or other description:



Iíve tried to search for 4 winged training aircraft but only get WW1-era biplanes. Anyone know what this is?
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Old 1st March 2021, 02:18 AM   #58
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a kit?

Include Canard Wing in your search.

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Old 1st March 2021, 02:51 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
a kit?

Include Canard Wing in your search.
I believe, I've seen that design before and if I remember correctly it was indeed a kit.
Edit.

Tandemwing is the correct search word.
It looks a lot like the tricycle version of the QAC Quickie Q2.
Seeing as that is indeed a kit aircraft, I think the minor differences between the first example and the one I linked to are negligable.
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Old 1st March 2021, 04:34 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
I believe, I've seen that design before and if I remember correctly it was indeed a kit.
Edit.

Tandemwing is the correct search word.
It looks a lot like the tricycle version of the QAC Quickie Q2.
Seeing as that is indeed a kit aircraft, I think the minor differences between the first example and the one I linked to are negligable.
Looks right to me.

Interesting that it's engine is essentially a development of the old air cooled VW Beetle engine.
I've heard of motor gliders being powered this way too.
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Old 1st March 2021, 07:58 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
I believe, I've seen that design before and if I remember correctly it was indeed a kit.
Edit.

Tandemwing is the correct search word.
It looks a lot like the tricycle version of the QAC Quickie Q2.
Seeing as that is indeed a kit aircraft, I think the minor differences between the first example and the one I linked to are negligable.
Thanks very much - yes, it is almost spot on except the tail, which could be a different kit part, with all other major parts looking close to identical to my untrained eye. Nice to learn - cheers!
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:55 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Looks right to me.

Interesting that it's engine is essentially a development of the old air cooled VW Beetle engine.
I've heard of motor gliders being powered this way too.
VW engines are, IIRC, very popular for kit planes.
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Old 1st March 2021, 09:09 AM   #63
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Most gliding clubs in my region now use a type of kit built aircraft called a "Eurofox" which is a microlight.
They're ok for some applications but can struggle with heavier gliders.
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Old 1st March 2021, 11:54 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
I might just hijack this thread quickly for an aircraft identification. Spotted at the National Museum of Malaysia, without any plaque or other description:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...c8c5a424b8.jpg

Iíve tried to search for 4 winged training aircraft but only get WW1-era biplanes. Anyone know what this is?
Its an Eagle 150

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Aircraft_Eagle_150
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Old 1st March 2021, 02:31 PM   #65
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Oh cool, I've learned something new

Anyway, someone mentioned the Fairey Gannet the other day, this is the one from Elvington.
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Old 1st March 2021, 02:38 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Oh cool, I've learned something new

Anyway, someone mentioned the Fairey Gannet the other day, this is the one from Elvington.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d5d2a5b179.jpg
There's that old saying about "if it looks right, it'll fly right". But I expect there's probably some kind of getout clause about looking clumsy and awkward and weird that covers the Gannet.
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Old 1st March 2021, 02:41 PM   #67
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Gannet was a brilliant aircraft as an ASW aircraft and the later version as at Elvington fitted with a radome on the belly and radar sets in the bomb bay it became the AEW for the carriers.
They could shut one engine down and loiter for hours plus their low stall speed meant they were easy to fly on and off the decks.

there is one left flying it is the ASW version and quite a few complete aircraft including three in Indonesia and three in Germany.

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Old 1st March 2021, 03:19 PM   #68
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You're not wrong.

Really clever bit of engineering
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Old 1st March 2021, 03:57 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
There's that old saying about "if it looks right, it'll fly right".
That would mean A-10 couldn't fly at all at first, although it's become capable of flying since then as people have come to decide they like the way it looks... as a result of the fact that it already worked, which it wouldn't have.

The phrase also reminds me of one oldy that I saw at the flight museum in Seattle years ago. It had a single propeller on the nose, but the nose was such a huge box compared to the propeller size that only the tips of the blades reached beyond the rectangular outline of the nose, so it would have pulled practically no air past itself. To this day I can't imagine what the idea was behind that and can't convince myself that that thing ever flew, but if it didn't, what's it doing at that museum?
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Old 1st March 2021, 04:45 PM   #70
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Early on the A-10 had a rival, the Northrop YA-9.


They were both capable of carrying that massive cannon, and in both designs the pilots sat in armoured "bathtubs", but the engine placement on the A-10 is better.
It's just a really well designed hard as nails plane to do a dirty job and come back.
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Old 1st March 2021, 05:57 PM   #71
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F14 Tomcats today are as old as Spitfires were when Top Gun was released in 1986
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:29 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Great, thanks. I see these are now made in Malaysia, so that makes sense.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 01:44 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
It is indeed.

Amazingly similar looking aircraft.
Even with 'Form follows function', one would suspect some kind of cross influence here.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 02:38 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
F14 Tomcats today are as old as Spitfires were when Top Gun was released in 1986
K5054 first flew in 1936 and the type entered service in 1938.

1986-1938= 48 years

The first Tomcat to fly took to the air in 1970 and the type entered service in 1974. 2021 -1974 = 47 years ago.

Close, but not quite.
Try the Boulton Paul Defiant (introduced 1939).
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Old 2nd March 2021, 03:25 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
It is indeed.

Amazingly similar looking aircraft.
Even with 'Form follows function', one would suspect some kind of cross influence here.
Indeed.

What works tends to get repeated.. and copied

Compare

a Boeing DC10 with a Lockheed L1011
a Piper Cherokee Archer* with a Beech Bonanza G36
a Beech King Air B200 with Piper PA42 Cheyenne
a Douglas DC8 with a Boeing 707
a Boeing 727 with a Hawker-Siddeley Trident
a BAC 111 with a Douglas DC9


*I had to include my Archer, its the aircraft in which I learned to fly and got my pilot's wings.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 03:49 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
K5054 first flew in 1936 and the type entered service in 1938.

1986-1938= 48 years

The first Tomcat to fly took to the air in 1970 and the type entered service in 1974. 2021 -1974 = 47 years ago.

Close, but not quite.
Try the Boulton Paul Defiant (introduced 1939).

Point being that the Tomcat although retired by the US Navy in 2006 is still viable and potent aircraft and some are still in service with Iran.
Whereas, the Spitfire was obsolete by the end of the 40s and out of service by the mid 50s.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 03:53 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Indeed.

What works tends to get repeated.. and copied

Compare

a Boeing DC10 with a Lockheed L1011
a Piper Cherokee Archer* with a Beech Bonanza G36
a Beech King Air B200 with Piper PA42 Cheyenne
a Douglas DC8 with a Boeing 707
a Boeing 727 with a Hawker-Siddeley Trident
a BAC 111 with a Douglas DC9


*I had to include my Archer, its the aircraft in which I learned to fly and got my pilot's wings.
Gannets replaced Avengers in Fleet Air Arm service and their their forms are similar.
High cockpit with a good view for carrier ops.
Internal bomb bay for torpedo size payload which gives a deep body profile
Rear cockpit for the radar operator/observer.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 04:16 AM   #78
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Oh I got your point, and it's valid.
I'm just a pedant

The tech in the Tomcat might as well be 100 years in advance of the Spitfire, it's a fast twin engined jet with beyond the horizon attack capabilities.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 08:49 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Indeed.

What works tends to get repeated.. and copied

Compare

a Boeing DC10 with a Lockheed L1011
a Piper Cherokee Archer* with a Beech Bonanza G36
a Beech King Air B200 with Piper PA42 Cheyenne
a Douglas DC8 with a Boeing 707
a Boeing 727 with a Hawker-Siddeley Trident
a BAC 111 with a Douglas DC9


*I had to include my Archer, its the aircraft in which I learned to fly and got my pilot's wings.
The DC10 was never a Boeing! It's a Douglas, and deserves to be remembered that way! Not a McDonnell-Douglas, either.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 11:36 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The DC10 was never a Boeing! It's a Douglas, and deserves to be remembered that way! Not a McDonnell-Douglas, either.
Oops
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