John of God on Oprah

Smiledriver · 28th June 2011, 04:32 PM

So Oprah is doing a show on John of God...it is a scandal. I googled "John of God eyeball scraping and the first link is to a link to a blog dedicated to stopping JOG and quotes Randi's Flim Flam.

Oprah, her O editor, and some Doctor have just been uncritically fawning over him for 30 minutes.

I tried to join Oprah's forum and comment on the show and how simple it is to find robust debunking of JOG. However, I couldn't click the agreement to the term of service.

Either way, she has 30 minutes to redeem herself here.

dropzone · 28th June 2011, 04:50 PM

I thought she was canceled.

Look. Oprah was freaked out by the potential reality of a horror movie (can't remember which) about demonic possession. She gave us Dr Phil. She's been a woomeister since she took over what was a local morning show that went national. She's an idiot. The people who hang on her every word are idiots. Idiots are also more-easily influenced by advertising and what Oprah likes, which makes advertisers happy because idiots make up a significant percentage of the population. It's hard to ignore her influence, but try. Your nerves will thank you.

Maurice Ledifficile · 28th June 2011, 05:05 PM

To me, Oprah is like the TV shopping network. You go there, you pitch your product, and everyone makes money. I don't see it changing, but perhaps someday her credibility will reflect what she is really doing. The pop psychology, the demented moralizing, and the "expert" advice from "professionals" like Phil and Oz just make me puke. One can only hope that someday people will go "oh, that quack..." when referring to any on these people.

Bikewer · 28th June 2011, 08:30 PM

Exactly. When I express a certain disgust for Oprah, folks chime in with "look at all the good she does!". Yes, she gives away a lot of money and sets up schools in poor regions and yadda yadda.
Very nice.
But she also unhesitatingly promotes charlatans and purveyors of woo like "Jon of God".

Anyone who had done any diligence in this regard knows that this fakir is doing exactly the same schtick that his predecesser, "Arigo of the rusty knife" did 30 years before.
It was flim-flam then, it's flim-flam now.

Maurice Ledifficile · 28th June 2011, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

Exactly. When I express a certain disgust for Oprah, folks chime in with "look at all the good she does!". Yes, she gives away a lot of money and sets up schools in poor regions and yadda yadda.
Very nice.
But she also unhesitatingly promotes charlatans and purveyors of woo like "Jon of God".

Anyone who had done any diligence in this regard knows that this fakir is doing exactly the same schtick that his predecesser, "Arigo of the rusty knife" did 30 years before.
It was flim-flam then, it's flim-flam now.

Ramen!
I do respect the charity work, but at the same time, what uber-multi-millionnaire in the public eye doesn't give millions to charity...

ETA: What I mean is the money she spends on charity will never touch her own budget. It really is like me giving chump change to an "urban outdoorsman" on my way to work.

sputnik · 28th June 2011, 09:35 PM

Blimey! I thought Oprah had retired already?

And as for JOG - isn't he so 1990's? I mean he has been debunked so many times now, I thought his cult was done for?... Looks like he is competition for Sylvia (hack, cough, non-smoker, honest) Browne?

blobru · 28th June 2011, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Smiledriver

So Oprah is doing a show on John of God...it is a scandal. I googled "John of God eyeball scraping and the first link is to a link to a blog dedicated to stopping JOG and quotes Randi's Flim Flam. ---

Is that this blog: STOP JOHN OF GOD? That's maintained by one of our forum members, EMM (as she's known for short).

wardenclyffe · 28th June 2011, 10:02 PM

This show was a repeat. Here's the link to the original thread of outrage:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=192274

Ward

sadhatter · 29th June 2011, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by dropzone

I thought she was canceled.

Look. Oprah was freaked out by the potential reality of a horror movie (can't remember which) about demonic possession. She gave us Dr Phil. She's been a woomeister since she took over what was a local morning show that went national. She's an idiot. The people who hang on her every word are idiots. Idiots are also more-easily influenced by advertising and what Oprah likes, which makes advertisers happy because idiots make up a significant percentage of the population. It's hard to ignore her influence, but try. Your nerves will thank you.

I've been watching " Married with children " lately, and it kills me that 10 years ago they had oprah's schtick down so well. Then suddenly people just forget how full of **** she was.

She had one good idea, and that was promoting the movie precious. Other than that, waste of television space.

Eddie Dane · 29th June 2011, 08:20 AM

I find it fascinating how people like Peter Popoff, Uri Geller and such can keep doing business in world with ready access to information, extreme transparency, Youtube and whatnot.

It just seems to take incredible, shameless audacity.

Maybe their market has shrunk though. I'd like to know.
Do they have less success then in say, the seventies?

Monketi Ghost · 29th June 2011, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie Dane

I find it fascinating how people like Peter Popoff, Uri Geller and such can keep doing business in world with ready access to information, extreme transparency, Youtube and whatnot.

*snip*

People are stupid, and the less sexy explanation is always less preferred.

Checkmite · 29th June 2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Maurice Ledifficile

The pop psychology, the demented moralizing, and the "expert" advice from "professionals" like Phil and Oz just make me puke.

I've seen Oz promote woo; I wasn't aware of any substantial faults with Dr. Phil. Does he give clinically bad information or something?

Dr. Keith · 29th June 2011, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I've seen Oz promote woo; I wasn't aware of any substantial faults with Dr. Phil. Does he give clinically bad information or something?

[OT] I'm not a fan of Dr. Phil, but I saw him speak at a graduation and I have to say that he is a very engaging speaker. Self deprecating, funny, sincere, and very well paced. He had a little something for everyone. I was pleasantly surprised.[/OT]

Maurice Ledifficile · 29th June 2011, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

[OT] I'm not a fan of Dr. Phil, but I saw him speak at a graduation and I have to say that he is a very engaging speaker. Self deprecating, funny, sincere, and very well paced. He had a little something for everyone. I was pleasantly surprised.[/OT]

I can't think of too many specific examples right now and it's not a good day for research, but I've seen him promote kinesiology, for one thing. That's enough for me.

I might have a bias due to his resemblance to Hank Kingsley...

ETA: Sorry guys, I meant to quote and respond to this one:

[originally posted by:Checkmite]
[I've seen Oz promote woo; I wasn't aware of any substantial faults with Dr. Phil. Does he give clinically bad information or something? ]

wardenclyffe · 29th June 2011, 06:09 PM

I saw Dr. Phill promote applied kinesiology once on his show very early on in his first season. I'm not aware of him promoting it since.

Ward

wardenclyffe · 29th June 2011, 06:26 PM

The chairman of the "Dr. Phil Advisory Board" is Dr. Frank Lawlis. He's questionable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8YHDMKg1wA

and I know he was involved in the applied kinesiology the Dr. Phil has used on his show.

Ward

ConspicuousCarl · 29th June 2011, 09:59 PM

I am going to start an allergy-healing crusade using the old "I got your nose" trick. First I "get" the victim's nose, then I rinse it in holy water, and then I replace it. Praise Jesus! Be sure to sign your checks.

Greediguts · 29th June 2011, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I've seen Oz promote woo; I wasn't aware of any substantial faults with Dr. Phil. Does he give clinically bad information or something?

He had a show with James Van Praagh and Char Margolis. I don't recall a skeptical voice appearing on the show. James did warn everyone of "fake" psychics, since Dr. Phil was worried about some people becoming addicted to using them. A "real" psychic would never allow that to happen...

Dr. Phil still has psychic crap on his website here.

Bikewer · 30th June 2011, 11:11 AM

Even NPR's "Doctor Zorba" gets a little close to the line at times. He's generally very straightforward, and folks call him up all the time about what "supplements" they should be taking.
He'll generally point out to them rather gently that the supplements are not supported by science, that there are no regulated standards, that they may not even contain any of the supposed materials advertised, etc.
Then he'll turn right around and advise people to "try it and see if it makes you feel better"....

Likewise recommending acupuncture and similar treatments while mentioning "chi" as if it were a real thing.

28th June 2011, 04:32 PM	#1
Smiledriver Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 168	John of God on Oprah So Oprah is doing a show on John of God...it is a scandal. I googled "John of God eyeball scraping and the first link is to a link to a blog dedicated to stopping JOG and quotes Randi's Flim Flam. Oprah, her O editor, and some Doctor have just been uncritically fawning over him for 30 minutes. I tried to join Oprah's forum and comment on the show and how simple it is to find robust debunking of JOG. However, I couldn't click the agreement to the term of service. Either way, she has 30 minutes to redeem herself here.
Smiledriver Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 168

28th June 2011, 04:50 PM	#2
dropzone Master Poster Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,032	I thought she was canceled. Look. Oprah was freaked out by the potential reality of a horror movie (can't remember which) about demonic possession. She gave us Dr Phil. She's been a woomeister since she took over what was a local morning show that went national. She's an idiot. The people who hang on her every word are idiots. Idiots are also more-easily influenced by advertising and what Oprah likes, which makes advertisers happy because idiots make up a significant percentage of the population. It's hard to ignore her influence, but try. Your nerves will thank you.
dropzone Master Poster Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,032

28th June 2011, 05:05 PM	#3
Maurice Ledifficile Lost in translation Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,964	To me, Oprah is like the TV shopping network. You go there, you pitch your product, and everyone makes money. I don't see it changing, but perhaps someday her credibility will reflect what she is really doing. The pop psychology, the demented moralizing, and the "expert" advice from "professionals" like Phil and Oz just make me puke. One can only hope that someday people will go "oh, that quack..." when referring to any on these people.
	__________________ "There is a plenty of proof, but unfortunately it is entirely unprovable." - Punshhh "There’s a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an idiot." – Stephen Wright

28th June 2011, 08:48 PM	#5
Maurice Ledifficile Lost in translation Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,964	Originally Posted by Bikewer Exactly. When I express a certain disgust for Oprah, folks chime in with "look at all the good she does!". Yes, she gives away a lot of money and sets up schools in poor regions and yadda yadda. Very nice. But she also unhesitatingly promotes charlatans and purveyors of woo like "Jon of God". Anyone who had done any diligence in this regard knows that this fakir is doing exactly the same schtick that his predecesser, "Arigo of the rusty knife" did 30 years before. It was flim-flam then, it's flim-flam now. Ramen! I do respect the charity work, but at the same time, what uber-multi-millionnaire in the public eye doesn't give millions to charity... ETA: What I mean is the money she spends on charity will never touch her own budget. It really is like me giving chump change to an "urban outdoorsman" on my way to work.
	__________________ "There is a plenty of proof, but unfortunately it is entirely unprovable." - Punshhh "There’s a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an idiot." – Stephen Wright Last edited by Maurice Ledifficile; 28th June 2011 at 08:51 PM.

28th June 2011, 09:35 PM	#6
sputnik Scholar Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 56	Blimey! I thought Oprah had retired already? And as for JOG - isn't he so 1990's? I mean he has been debunked so many times now, I thought his cult was done for?... Looks like he is competition for Sylvia (hack, cough, non-smoker, honest) Browne?
sputnik Scholar Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 56

28th June 2011, 08:30 PM	#4
Bikewer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 12,924	Exactly. When I express a certain disgust for Oprah, folks chime in with "look at all the good she does!". Yes, she gives away a lot of money and sets up schools in poor regions and yadda yadda. Very nice. But she also unhesitatingly promotes charlatans and purveyors of woo like "Jon of God". Anyone who had done any diligence in this regard knows that this fakir is doing exactly the same schtick that his predecesser, "Arigo of the rusty knife" did 30 years before. It was flim-flam then, it's flim-flam now.

28th June 2011, 09:55 PM	#7
blobru Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6,900	Originally Posted by Smiledriver So Oprah is doing a show on John of God...it is a scandal. I googled "John of God eyeball scraping and the first link is to a link to a blog dedicated to stopping JOG and quotes Randi's Flim Flam. --- Is that this blog: STOP JOHN OF GOD? That's maintained by one of our forum members, EMM (as she's known for short).
blobru Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6,900	__________________ "Say to them, 'I am Nobody!'" -- Ulysses to the Cyclops "Never mind. I can't read." -- Hokulele to the Easter Bunny

28th June 2011, 10:02 PM	#8
wardenclyffe Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,292	This show was a repeat. Here's the link to the original thread of outrage: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=192274 Ward
	__________________ ~~Na eth'er aa, ammre' en ank'aar'eith, d'emner'aa-, asd'reng'aather, em'n'err-aae...~ - Alenara Al'Kher'aat, aged 347

29th June 2011, 08:04 AM	#9
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,694	Originally Posted by dropzone I thought she was canceled. Look. Oprah was freaked out by the potential reality of a horror movie (can't remember which) about demonic possession. She gave us Dr Phil. She's been a woomeister since she took over what was a local morning show that went national. She's an idiot. The people who hang on her every word are idiots. Idiots are also more-easily influenced by advertising and what Oprah likes, which makes advertisers happy because idiots make up a significant percentage of the population. It's hard to ignore her influence, but try. Your nerves will thank you. I've been watching " Married with children " lately, and it kills me that 10 years ago they had oprah's schtick down so well. Then suddenly people just forget how full of **** she was. She had one good idea, and that was promoting the movie precious. Other than that, waste of television space.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,694

29th June 2011, 08:20 AM	#10
Eddie Dane Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,681	I find it fascinating how people like Peter Popoff, Uri Geller and such can keep doing business in world with ready access to information, extreme transparency, Youtube and whatnot. It just seems to take incredible, shameless audacity. Maybe their market has shrunk though. I'd like to know. Do they have less success then in say, the seventies?
Eddie Dane Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,681	__________________ Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh!

29th June 2011, 08:30 AM	#11
Monketi Ghost Confusion Reactor Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 25,141	Originally Posted by Eddie Dane I find it fascinating how people like Peter Popoff, Uri Geller and such can keep doing business in world with ready access to information, extreme transparency, Youtube and whatnot. snip People are stupid, and the less sexy explanation is always less preferred.

29th June 2011, 02:05 PM	#12
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,538	Originally Posted by Maurice Ledifficile The pop psychology, the demented moralizing, and the "expert" advice from "professionals" like Phil and Oz just make me puke. I've seen Oz promote woo; I wasn't aware of any substantial faults with Dr. Phil. Does he give clinically bad information or something?

29th June 2011, 02:10 PM	#13
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,944	Originally Posted by Checkmite I've seen Oz promote woo; I wasn't aware of any substantial faults with Dr. Phil. Does he give clinically bad information or something? [OT] I'm not a fan of Dr. Phil, but I saw him speak at a graduation and I have to say that he is a very engaging speaker. Self deprecating, funny, sincere, and very well paced. He had a little something for everyone. I was pleasantly surprised.[/OT]
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

29th June 2011, 03:54 PM	#14
Maurice Ledifficile Lost in translation Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,964	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith [OT] I'm not a fan of Dr. Phil, but I saw him speak at a graduation and I have to say that he is a very engaging speaker. Self deprecating, funny, sincere, and very well paced. He had a little something for everyone. I was pleasantly surprised.[/OT] I can't think of too many specific examples right now and it's not a good day for research, but I've seen him promote kinesiology, for one thing. That's enough for me. I might have a bias due to his resemblance to Hank Kingsley... ETA: Sorry guys, I meant to quote and respond to this one: [originally posted by:Checkmite] [I've seen Oz promote woo; I wasn't aware of any substantial faults with Dr. Phil. Does he give clinically bad information or something? ]
	__________________ "There is a plenty of proof, but unfortunately it is entirely unprovable." - Punshhh "There’s a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an idiot." – Stephen Wright Last edited by Maurice Ledifficile; 29th June 2011 at 03:57 PM.

29th June 2011, 06:09 PM	#15
wardenclyffe Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,292	I saw Dr. Phill promote applied kinesiology once on his show very early on in his first season. I'm not aware of him promoting it since. Ward
	__________________ ~~Na eth'er aa, ammre' en ank'aar'eith, d'emner'aa-, asd'reng'aather, em'n'err-aae...~ - Alenara Al'Kher'aat, aged 347

29th June 2011, 06:26 PM	#16
wardenclyffe Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,292	The chairman of the "Dr. Phil Advisory Board" is Dr. Frank Lawlis. He's questionable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8YHDMKg1wA and I know he was involved in the applied kinesiology the Dr. Phil has used on his show. Ward
	__________________ ~~Na eth'er aa, ammre' en ank'aar'eith, d'emner'aa-, asd'reng'aather, em'n'err-aae...~ - Alenara Al'Kher'aat, aged 347

29th June 2011, 09:59 PM	#17
ConspicuousCarl Thinker Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 149	I am going to start an allergy-healing crusade using the old "I got your nose" trick. First I "get" the victim's nose, then I rinse it in holy water, and then I replace it. Praise Jesus! Be sure to sign your checks.
ConspicuousCarl Thinker Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 149

29th June 2011, 11:10 PM	#18
Greediguts Atheist for Jesus Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 653	Originally Posted by Checkmite I've seen Oz promote woo; I wasn't aware of any substantial faults with Dr. Phil. Does he give clinically bad information or something? He had a show with James Van Praagh and Char Margolis. I don't recall a skeptical voice appearing on the show. James did warn everyone of "fake" psychics, since Dr. Phil was worried about some people becoming addicted to using them. A "real" psychic would never allow that to happen... Dr. Phil still has psychic crap on his website here.

30th June 2011, 11:11 AM	#19
Bikewer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 12,924	Even NPR's "Doctor Zorba" gets a little close to the line at times. He's generally very straightforward, and folks call him up all the time about what "supplements" they should be taking. He'll generally point out to them rather gently that the supplements are not supported by science, that there are no regulated standards, that they may not even contain any of the supposed materials advertised, etc. Then he'll turn right around and advise people to "try it and see if it makes you feel better".... Likewise recommending acupuncture and similar treatments while mentioning "chi" as if it were a real thing.