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Old 12th November 2007, 05:33 PM   #1
Island Skeptic
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THIEF HEALER TONIGHT!! Help!

OK folks, for those of you who haven't gotten to know me, let me be brief: I'm a born-again skeptic, was never really religious except for a brief period of time years ago (for which i claim temporary insanity), but have for a long time been what i referred to as "spiritual": simply believing in some sort of supreme being or force. (I have now abandoned that notion as well.)

The main trigger that brought me back to my senses was an incident when i went to see a so-called "Faith Healer" (i suffer from a chronic illness - very much pain and very desperate for relief). With this so-called "faith healer," i experienced what i sincerely *thought* was painlessness (although it was very short-lived). As much as my logical side would not believe anyone could hold such powers, this particular experience drew me very close to believing -and emptying my pockets to this thief. Of course with my curiosity of how this could possibly be, i quickly ran to the internet to research this -which is when i came across James Randi and Derren Brown. When i watched Derren Brown's video "Instant Conversion," i felt completely duped and very embarrassed. The techniques this 'faith healer' of ours uses is almost identical to what Derren Brown demonstrates in that video (and the techniques of subsequent readings i found here and there).

Since then, i've been waiting for this thief to announce his next public display of 'faith healing' so that i can publicly question him -and here he is! He is coming tonight!

I am not a vindictive person, but i am concerned for the many wealthy widows of my neighborhood who have been giving this guy $200-$400 "donations" per session(!!) for "healings." (If he can heal, then why must they continue returning??) All I want to do is cause the audience (my community) to consider the possibility(certainty) that this guy is a hoax, and to be capable of offering a clear explanation of how he performs these apparent "miracles".

I asked (in another thread) if someone could just explain one trick that Derren Brown does in his "instant conversion" video so that i can come to this thief's next public meeting fully armed and prepared. I need to know how he is capable of causing someone to experience something particularly when their backs are turned to him (and the experience comes at the precise moment he makes whatever stupid motion he does with his hands).

How is that done?? If anyone can tell me, please send me a private note or respond here ASAP, because i really would like to corner this thief tonight. I have 2.5 hours before this event begins. If anyone has the answer to the Derren Brown trick, I would appreciate it so much!

Thank you and alooooooHa!

For your entertainment, the Thief Healer's invitation (below):

Dear Friends,

You're invited to join Howard Wills for a series of evenings filled with laughter, healing and heart beginning today at 5pm at the Princeville Community Center.

Since moving to Kauai Howard has been generously sharing knowledge on healing, consciousness and love, which has helped transform thousands of lives throughout the world for over 34 years. He continues to work with people both in-person and via remote, including offering private sessions here on Kauai.

Whether your issue is mental, physical, emotional or spiritual--each program with Howard is experiential, designed to assist you in releasing the various burdens you carry in your life, thus opening the door to greater freedom, health, joy and love.

We hope you will join us.

All programs being held on the dates below will be at the Princeville Community Center, from 5pm - 7pm.
Suggested donation is $25:

Nov. 12 Monday
Dec. 13 Thursday
Jan.10 Thursday Jan. 24 Thursday
Feb. 11 Monday Feb. 28 Thursday
Mar. 13 Thursday Mar. 27 Thursday

If youd like more information on Howard you can visit his website at www.howardwills.com or call 310-650-2733 to schedule an in-person or phone session.
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Old 12th November 2007, 05:38 PM   #2
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oops, just needed to reply to my own thread so that i may receive instant notification of any responses.

Mahalo nui loa and alooooooooHa!
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Old 12th November 2007, 06:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
Since then, i've been waiting for this thief to announce his next public display of 'faith healing' so that i can publicly question him -and here he is! He is coming tonight!

I asked (in another thread) if someone could just explain one trick that Derren Brown does in his "instant conversion" video so that i can come to this thief's next public meeting fully armed and prepared. I need to know how he is capable of causing someone to experience something particularly when their backs are turned to him (and the experience comes at the precise moment he makes whatever stupid motion he does with his hands).

How is that done?? If anyone can tell me, please send me a private note or respond here ASAP, because i really would like to corner this thief tonight. I have 2.5 hours before this event begins. If anyone has the answer to the Derren Brown trick, I would appreciate it so much!

Thank you and alooooooHa!
How Derren Brown did his performance and how your nemesis does his performance are totally different. Being able to explain how something mysterious is done and convincing people who believe something religious is different.

If you are willing to spend time and do some research this might be the place. If you wanted something ASAP you needed to provide more details.
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Old 12th November 2007, 06:22 PM   #4
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Just what i was about to say.

And even if you could explain that one trick everyone would just point to some of the other tricks (the 'healings' for example) and say "but how do you explain that", and as soon as you haven't got an explanation they think they've won the argument.

As soon as you bring it down the level of just exposing the effects, you open yourself up for endless debate and a long drawn-out argument. (Unless you're James Randi and therefore omniscient...)

I would maybe ask for some evidence - "can you prove that you've ever healed anyone permanently of a serious disease? Or ask why god hates amputees.

I'm not sure how much more effective this would be however - if you're going to disrupt proceedings, you can do anything you like - no ones going to listen to you and its very unlikely that you're going to convince anyone of anything (although Im standing by to stand corrected - Im sure someone will have some good ideas)

Maybe you could stand outside and hand out pamphlets (or sneak in before the show and stick them on the seats...). You can fit more info in a pamphlet and if someone takes something like that home and reads it, they may be convinced enough to seriously think about it...
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Old 12th November 2007, 06:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by vIQleS View Post
Just what i was about to say.

And even if you could explain that one trick everyone would just point to some of the other tricks (the 'healings' for example) and say "but how do you explain that", and as soon as you haven't got an explanation they think they've won the argument.

As soon as you bring it down the level of just exposing the effects, you open yourself up for endless debate and a long drawn-out argument. (Unless you're James Randi and therefore omniscient...)

I would maybe ask for some evidence - "can you prove that you've ever healed anyone permanently of a serious disease? Or ask why god hates amputees.

I'm not sure how much more effective this would be however - if you're going to disrupt proceedings, you can do anything you like - no ones going to listen to you and its very unlikely that you're going to convince anyone of anything (although Im standing by to stand corrected - Im sure someone will have some good ideas)

Maybe you could stand outside and hand out pamphlets (or sneak in before the show and stick them on the seats...). You can fit more info in a pamphlet and if someone takes something like that home and reads it, they may be convinced enough to seriously think about it...
This is all good advise, thank you so much. I particularly like the pamphlet idea - considering that I do not do very well with confrontations, particularly in front of an audience.

Does anyone have suggestions of links here on the internet, where I can find suitable enough information to print out and pass around to the group?

(BTW: He is not a "God" or "Christian" healer guy. He caters to the "Spiritual/New Age" group.)
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
This is all good advise, thank you so much. I particularly like the pamphlet idea - considering that I do not do very well with confrontations, particularly in front of an audience.

Does anyone have suggestions of links here on the internet, where I can find suitable enough information to print out and pass around to the group?

(BTW: He is not a "God" or "Christian" healer guy. He caters to the "Spiritual/New Age" group.)
Check out Randi's books: Film-Flam and The Faith Healers. Christian or not, many use the same tactics and Randi explains how some of these tricks are done.

Various links:
http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...ics/faith.html
http://skepdic.com/faithhealing.html
http://www.csicop.org/sb/9409/skeptic.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...l/healing.html

There are several videos too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53yHE9Y1bdA

Or the Trinity Foundation's documentaries on Benny Hinn

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...1561140514506& (Part 1 of 8)

Last edited by Enlighten; 12th November 2007 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 12th November 2007, 11:05 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Enlighten View Post
Check out Randi's books: Film-Flam and The Faith Healers. Christian or not, many use the same tactics and Randi explains how some of these tricks are done.

Various links:
http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...ics/faith.html
http://skepdic.com/faithhealing.html
http://www.csicop.org/sb/9409/skeptic.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...l/healing.html

There are several videos too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53yHE9Y1bdA

Or the Trinity Foundation's documentaries on Benny Hinn

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...1561140514506& (Part 1 of 8)
Thank you so much for the great links! I did not go to this evening's event because I felt the pamphlet idea was probably the best, and it would be better if i come more properly prepared. I will be there for his next event with pamphlets in hand. I wish James Randi could join me. That would make quite an interesting evening. :-)

Randi had promised to send me a personal autographed copy of "Faith Healers," but it appears that he got side-tracked. *sniffles* ...No matter, i will order it from Amazon.com (and will probably consider adding "Flim Flam" to my order as well).

I really appreciate all of your help here. You folks are really great people and I am so happy to have come across this site!

I'll update you all on how things turn out when I go to our "faith healer's" next public appearance. ...Maybe even take a little video of his performance while there. ;-)

Wishing you all a FUNtastic week!

AloooooooHa!
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Old 13th November 2007, 07:54 AM   #8
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Unfortunately, the only way to get these slime is either catching them messing with children or the application of numerology ( I find 357, 44 and 45 particularly enlightening in these matters.
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Old 13th November 2007, 10:11 AM   #9
Island Skeptic
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Numerology??

**scratching head**
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Old 13th November 2007, 12:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Unfortunately, the only way to get these slime is either catching them messing with children or the application of numerology ( I find 357, 44 and 45 particularly enlightening in these matters.

Numerology. As in the numbers of pistol calibers.
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Old 13th November 2007, 02:04 PM   #11
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How about a deer slug (about .60 cal & soft lead - expands hellaciously IIRC)?
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Old 13th November 2007, 03:39 PM   #12
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LOL!

You people are cruel!

(But it would be a lie to tell you i did not get some internal pleasure from the thought of it. *grin*)
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Old 13th November 2007, 07:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
...
Randi had promised to send me a personal autographed copy of "Faith Healers," but it appears that he got side-tracked. *sniffles* ...No matter, i will order it from Amazon.com (and will probably consider adding "Flim Flam" to my order as well).
...

AloooooooHa!
"Flim Flam" has details about how of the stunts are done, whereas the "Faith Healers" has a fair amount of biography.

Last edited by Enlighten; 13th November 2007 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 21st November 2007, 10:17 PM   #14
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Plus some good pamphlets:

http://www.skeptics.org.nz/SK:RESOURCES:331667
http://www.skeptics.org.nz/download/mediumchecklist.pdf
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