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Old 26th September 2018, 05:56 PM   #121
casebro
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https://www.ticketnews.com/2018/06/t...legal-bot-use/

Just shows their hypocrisy. I guess Prestige Entertainment wasn't paying the vig?
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Old 26th September 2018, 11:26 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I think it's possible, if part of TM's business proposal is to set pricing for the different seats citing this is how the performer can generate best revenue from the venue.

If they are exposed as lowballing the cut to the artist through a secret side project that buys the artist's low price and resells under a different brand, pocketing the difference, there could be contractual violations of their stated responsibility to the artist.
As far as I am aware TM don't set ticket prices,
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Old 26th September 2018, 11:33 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
As far as I am aware TM don't set ticket prices,
The way I see it, Ticketmaster has been using intermediaries to set ticket prices as high as possible.
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Old 28th September 2018, 06:55 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
As far as I am aware TM don't set ticket prices,
My suggestion is that they may consult. The thought being that they know the venues and local market; the artist doesn't necessarily know much about this. Audience is 60+ years old, so seat 117B could fetch $400 on a weeknight in October, for example.

So, after getting paid to recommend pricepoints, they discover they're too low, buy a batch through a cutout and take extra profits.

This is something we've seen a lot of in real estate as well. A couple want to sell their house, and phone the real estate agent on the bus stop bench. She says the house is worth $900k and she has a buyer. The old couple go for it. The buyer was the real estate agent, who flips it for the actual value of $1.2M, clearing both a $15k selling agent's fee from the couple, and $300k capital gains profit. Notice that the real money is in the lowball and resell. The necessary factor is being trusted to recommend pricing.
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Old 28th September 2018, 07:01 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The way I see it, Ticketmaster has been using intermediaries to set ticket prices as high as possible.
The concept is price discrimination to profit maximize. Seniors and student discounts on the bus system are an example. They pay less because they can afford less, and the transit system knows they can sell 1M $15 student passes ($15M) instead of 250k $50 student passes ($12.5M).

In my world (telecom), phone the loyalty department, 90% of the time, you'll hang up paying less than your neighbour with identical services. Because you demonstrated you were able or willing to pay less. He's paying more because he's demonstrating he's happy paying more (by not haggling).

In the ticket sales world, Ticketmaster is price discriminating to sell identical tickets to different demographics. Those with more time than money pay less; those with more money than time pay more. Ticketmaster does not pass any of this marketing derived additional profit on to the artist, which may be a violation of contract if they are consulted to recommend pricepoints for the artist based on their knowledge of the venue and market.


ETA: and I think the driving complaint is that they're creating an artificial scarcity to force the hand of the potential higher pricepayers. Diverting some regular price tickets to the elite tier, an equivalent number of regular price customers will have to go without. Again, there's a parallel in real estate. Families unable to find an affordable home while condos sit empty awaiting flipping to another speculator who will also leave it unoccupied.
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Old 28th September 2018, 07:10 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
My suggestion is that they may consult. The thought being that they know the venues and local market; the artist doesn't necessarily know much about this. Audience is 60+ years old, so seat 117B could fetch $400 on a weeknight in October, for example.

...snip...
I've listened to a lot of the hearings before committees and so on and them being involved in setting prices hasn't come up, so I think at least in the UK they are not in the ticket face price setting game.
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Old 28th September 2018, 07:30 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I've listened to a lot of the hearings before committees and so on and them being involved in setting prices hasn't come up, so I think at least in the UK they are not in the ticket face price setting game.
The whole point is that they're in the game where the face price isn't the real price.
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Old 28th September 2018, 07:32 AM   #128
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Maybe this is just something that's less weird (although to be it should be) to Americans because... there's basically no concept of a "face price" on any level of American commerce.

We're just used to what we end of paying being significantly higher than whatever price is being displayed / advertised.

Taxes and fees being this thing that goes on "after" you've agreed on the price is just the norm for us. It's messed up, but it's the norm.
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Old 28th September 2018, 07:54 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The whole point is that they're in the game where the face price isn't the real price.
Have we evidence yet of the numbers - preferably percentages - of tickets and the mark-ups that go through the scalpers?

Somewhere like the O2 arena has a 20,000 capacity, is it a 1000 tickets that go through the scalpers, 10,000? 20,000?

If it is something like a 1,000 then the face price is pretty much the "real price", if it was nearer to 10,000 it certainly isn't.
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Old 28th September 2018, 07:57 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Maybe this is just something that's less weird (although to be it should be) to Americans because... there's basically no concept of a "face price" on any level of American commerce.

We're just used to what we end of paying being significantly higher than whatever price is being displayed / advertised.

Taxes and fees being this thing that goes on "after" you've agreed on the price is just the norm for us. It's messed up, but it's the norm.
Not in terms of tickets for performances, folk in the UK are used to paying "handling charges", "admin fees" and a myriad of other innocuous sounding mark-ups on tickets, it would be rare to pay the actual face price of any ticket unless you were paying directly at the door. (There has been some recent legislation that has limited the scope for these type of mark-ups.)
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Old 28th September 2018, 07:58 AM   #131
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//Total spitballing//

I do wonder if simple demographics is breaking certain concepts of "an event" to a degree.

Cheap air fare, improved transportation, cars being for all practical purposes universal among the population the ability to go a long distance to see "an event" is just open to a lot more people. A stadium simply can't be built big enough to house everyone that wants to see and unlike in the past can now reasonably both afford and get to, certain events.
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Old 28th September 2018, 08:29 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//Total spitballing//

I do wonder if simple demographics is breaking certain concepts of "an event" to a degree.

Cheap air fare, improved transportation, cars being for all practical purposes universal among the population the ability to go a long distance to see "an event" is just open to a lot more people. A stadium simply can't be built big enough to house everyone that wants to see and unlike in the past can now reasonably both afford and get to, certain events.


I think this is a big factor for big name stars for sure. I plan trips to Vegas around who is gonna be there. I have no problem driving to San Antonio (3.5 hours) Austin (4.5 hours) or Houston (5.5 hours) just to see a show. My area gets very few shows I want to see and here I donít have to worry about scalpers because I have connections with most of the promoters and/or tickets donít sell out quickly.

For small/mid-tier acts, I rarely have an issue getting tickets and canít remember ever buying a scalper ticket for those shows.

I also have another strategy for big name acts: I join the fan club. For example, I joined the Maroon 5 club just to get tickets to their NYE show last year. Scored second row seats and a two hour pre show party with free drinks/appetizers as a Xmas gift to my wife. Those seats were selling for more than triple what I paid for them. Pre sales are the true fanís best friend and itís not just fan clubs; AMEX, Live Nation, venues, etc all have their own pre sales.


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Old 28th September 2018, 08:52 AM   #133
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//Continue slight hijack, if anyone feels its gone to far feel free to spin it off//

Like seriously imagine how busy... errr Disneyland let's say would be tomorrow if today someone invented legit Star Trek style transporters and removed distance and time barriers.
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Old 28th September 2018, 09:39 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//Continue slight hijack, if anyone feels its gone to far feel free to slip if off//

Like seriously imagine how busy... errr Disneyland let's say would be tomorrow if today someone invented legit Star Trek style transporters and removed distance and time barriers.
But the Holodeck would make it all moot.
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Old 28th September 2018, 09:45 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But the Holodeck would make it all moot.
A cool idea I had a few years back was when holograph technology becomes good enough it would be cool to be able to go to your local stadium and watch a real time, 3D, full size recreation of, say, the Superbowl displayed holographically.
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Old 28th September 2018, 09:48 AM   #136
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Ticketmaster and Life Nation merged, with many anti-monopoly caveats placed by the justice dept.

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Nation_Entertainment

2018 Allegations of Antitrust Violations and DOJ Investigation

In 2018, the United States Department of Justice launched an investigation following complains that Live Nation had engaged in anti-competitive practices following the merger. AEG has alleged that Live Nation had pressured them into using Ticketmaster as a vender. If AEG had refused, they would have lost out on business. The allegations of antitrust violations have resulted in a re-examination of the merger between Ticketmaster and Live Nation. Much of the initial criticisms of the merger has been re-affirmed.[12][13]
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