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Tags diet issues , dietary science , obesity

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Old 16th November 2019, 02:42 PM   #241
Skeptical Greg
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Quote:
...This helps you to turn simple white rice into a more nutritious meal.
I find it a bit ironic when you see someone ( not you dann ) talk about making this or that food more nutritious..

If it's not nutritious, why are you eating it?
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Old 16th November 2019, 05:51 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
WebMD says:


And the condition of "uncomfortable" and "embarrassing" is described more specifically as:




So it definitely hurts you (and maybe your surroundings) even though it seems as if there are no long-term, harmful effects.
And you can get lactose-free milk ...
Well, I'm pretty sure I'm lactose intolerant, and have experienced some pretty unpleasant symptoms when consuming too much dairy a few times in my life*, but most days I put milk in my coffee or drink a latte without any trouble, so that's why I said "in moderation".

As to lactose free, I just made a big batch of yogurt, going to have it with bananas and blueberries for breakfast. No worries about the lactose content of a bowl of that.

*but really, maybe three times. It's possible that the reactions, which are in line with the symptoms you listed and were coorelated with an episode of much higher than normal dairy consumption, were actually unrelated to the dairy, and that I'm not actually lactose intolerant (I was told I was as a kid, and those reactions reinforce the idea, but maybe I'm wrong).

If even small amounts of diary lead to an unpleasant reaction in most people, then I withdraw my objection.
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Old 16th November 2019, 05:54 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I find it a bit ironic when you see someone ( not you dann ) talk about making this or that food more nutritious..

If it's not nutritious, why are you eating it?
It's possible to take something that is already nutritious and make it more nutritious.

An olympic sprinter can try to train in such a way as to run the 100m race faster. Would you ask "if you're not fast, why are you trying to compete in the olympics?".
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Old 17th November 2019, 12:29 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
This one surprised me!
Association of Dietary Fiber and Yogurt Consumption With Lung Cancer Risk (JAMA Oncology, Oct. 24, 2019)



"Our findings suggest a potential protective role of prebiotics and probiotics against lung carcinogenesis."

People who eat food with fibre have good diets overall, and could have a more active lifestyle, hence better lungs.

Prebiotics and probiotics I gather seem to be widely accepted now to be beneficial, not just yoghurt per se.

Without buying the whole analysis, we can't tell if it proved yogurt alone reduced lung cancer.
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Old 17th November 2019, 04:07 AM   #245
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Yes, but they claim that "high intakes of dietary fiber or yogurt were individually associated with reduced risk of lung cancer, independent of all known risk factors."
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Old 17th November 2019, 04:10 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
If even small amounts of diary lead to an unpleasant reaction in most people, then I withdraw my objection.

Adrian Mole had that effect on some of my students!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 17th November 2019 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 17th November 2019, 04:45 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I find it a bit ironic when you see someone ( not you dann ) talk about making this or that food more nutritious..

If it's not nutritious, why are you eating it?

This is one of those times when a Danish word turns out to be untranslatable. In the meantime, everybody knows about hygge, but we also have the word nydelsesmiddel. It usually appears in the context of "nærings- og nydelsesmidler" (plural), which Google translates as "food and enjoyment". We find it in the term nærings- og nydelsesmiddelindustrien (Google translation: "the food and beverage industry"), but the definiton of nydelsesmiddel is:

Quote:
stof som indtages udelukkende for nydelsens skyld, fx fordi det er velsmagende eller har en behagelig eller stimulerende virkning • fx krydderier, alkohol, rusmidler, tobak, kaffe og slik
or
(især mods. næringsmiddel) om stof, der uden at have (væsentlig) næringsværdi indeholder særegne stimulerende lugte- og smagsstoffer (fx. krydderier, liquor, kaffe, te, tobak); spec. (fagl., især foræld.) om visse af fødemidlernes bestanddele, der mentes at gøre føden tiltalende, stimulere appetitten og fordøjelsen olgn.
Nydelsesmiddel (sproget.dk)

I.e. "a substance that is ingested solely for the sake of pleasure, for instance because it is tasty or has a pleasant or stimulating effect • e.g. spices, alcohol, intoxicants, tobacco, coffee and candy"
or
"(in particular in contrast to food) about substances that, without having (substantial) nutritional value, contain particular stimulating scents and flavors (e.g. spices, liquor, coffee, tea, tobacco); in particular (professionally, especially outdated) about some of the elements of food that are supposed to make the food appealing, stimulate appetite and digestion or have similar effects."
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 17th November 2019 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 17th November 2019, 05:05 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
"hazard ratio, 0.83 (95% CI, 0.76-0.91) for the highest vs lowest quintile of fiber intake; and hazard ratio, 0.81 (95% CI, 0.76-0.87) for high vs no yogurt consumption. "

Funny how they compared extreme quintiles, NOT each to the norm.

Check my math: If norm is 1.00, and they are comparing highest vs lowest quintiles, and we guess the worst quintile is 1.2, then .83 x 1.2 = .996. Umm, no advantage to extreme comsumption, but a disadvantage to the dearrth of yogurt?

It was widely reported, but I don't know how reliable it is:

High fiber, yogurt diet associated with lower lung cancer risk (Science Daily, Oct. 25, 2019)
A yoghurt a day may help keep lung cancer away (Farm Online, Oct. 29, 2019)
Fiber and Yogurt Tied to Lower Lung Cancer Risk (NYT, Oct. 24, 2019)

Unlike some of the others, this article mentions some of the limitations of the study:
Yogurt, fiber, and lung cancer: What's the link? (Medical News Today, Oct. 28, 2019)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th November 2019, 05:29 AM   #249
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Arne Astrup isn't quite convinced by the study: https://www.facebook.com/Arne.V.Astr...288888?__xts__

Quote:
Food with a high content of fibres and yoghurt seems to reduce the risk of lung cancer by 30% - if true, it's probably due to the bacteria in the gut.
(...)
We don't really know if the correlation is also causation
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 17th November 2019 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 17th November 2019, 04:12 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It was widely reported, but I don't know how reliable it is:
...

Unlike some of the others, this article mentions some of the limitations of the study:
Yogurt, fiber, and lung cancer: What's the link? (Medical News Today, Oct. 28, 2019)
"People who consumed the most fiber had a 17% lower risk of developing lung cancer than those who ate the least fiber.

Similarly, people who consumed the most yogurt had a 19% lower risk of developing lung cancer than those who consumed no yogurt." (data mining. Most vs Least? Obviously trying to exagerrate the efficacy."


" Even participants who consumed just a small amount of yogurt had a 15% lower risk of developing lung cancer than those who consumed none." Better, comparing the lowest two quartiles. Which umm, did they do that for the fiber side?

Sounds to me like a small amount of either is pretty darn efficient. No need to eat more than anybody else in the whole world.
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Old 17th November 2019, 04:29 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It was widely reported, but I don't know how reliable it is:

High fiber, yogurt diet associated with lower lung cancer risk (Science Daily, Oct. 25, 2019)
A yoghurt a day may help keep lung cancer away (Farm Online, Oct. 29, 2019)
Fiber and Yogurt Tied to Lower Lung Cancer Risk (NYT, Oct. 24, 2019)

Unlike some of the others, this article mentions some of the limitations of the study:
Yogurt, fiber, and lung cancer: What's the link? (Medical News Today, Oct. 28, 2019)
Damn Jamanet paywall. I want the Comparative Risks. I would probably have to calculate them myself from the raw data.

Same for SToP study, red meat vs stomach cancer.
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Old 18th November 2019, 10:18 PM   #252
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The Matrix

Food studies suddenly got much more complicated:

Quote:
Evidence from interventional and observational studies support that fermented dairy products in particular exert beneficial effects on bone growth and mineralization, attenuation of bone loss, and reduce fracture risk. The effect cannot be explained by single nutrients in dairy, which suggests that a combined or matrix effect may be responsible similar to the matrix effects of foods on cardiometabolic health.
Impact of whole dairy matrix on musculoskeletal health and aging–current knowledge and research gaps (Osteoporosis International/Springer Link, Nov. 14, 2019)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:19 PM   #253
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Looks like a little funding from the dairy industry found it's way into that study..

Not saying I have a problem with it, but those things should be known..
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Old 19th November 2019, 07:44 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Looks like a little funding from the dairy industry found it's way into that study..

Not saying I have a problem with it, but those things should be known..
Yeah, because it does make sense. Not JUST 'D', not JUST calcium, nor JUST the probiotics of the cheese, but that there is a synergistic effect of all three.

Matrix is the word I've been looking for. Few diseases are monogenic. Those are "RARE' diseases. The rest of our health problems are caused by a Matrix of genes. Just like our recent thread about how there is NOT one "gay gene". Then toss in a co-matrix of environmental factors.

See why I "Eagerly await our AI Overlords" ?
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Old 21st November 2019, 01:42 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
...This helps you to turn simple white rice into a more nutritious meal.I find it a bit ironic when you see someone ( not you dann ) talk about making this or that food more nutritious..

If it's not nutritious, why are you eating it?
Saw your post from earlier, and it started my gears grinding.

You'll get into this.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2...by-greenpeace/

Anti-GMO people (e.g. Greenpeace) have blocked the use of Golden Rice in countries with high prevalence of preventable blindness (due to Vitamin A deficiency (VAD).

"According to a 2009 study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the improved Golden Rice strain, being tested in the Philippines and Bangladesh, is as effective as vitamin A capsules and works better than the natural beta-carotene found in spinach.

“Daily consumption of a very modest amount of Golden Rice—about a cup—could supply 50 percent of the recommended daily allowance of vitamin A for an adult,” said rice breeder Russell Reinke, who leads the Healthier Rice Program at the International Rice Research Institute (IRRI), the organization that has been conducting field trials in the Philippines."

"Supplementation requires substantial and consistent funding in order to distribute the capsules to those who need them when they need them. While many foods contain beta-carotene, they can be expensive to buy and difficult to grow in regions where VAD is an issue. Rice is a staple crop in many countries in South and Southeast Asia, and is widely grown by smallholder farmers. Thus Golden Rice could be a cheap, wide-reaching, sustainable approach to fighting VAD."

"Contrary to popular perception, Golden Rice is not a single rice variety. The nutritional traits that were originally inserted in rice plants using genetic engineering have been crossed with many local rice varieties via conventional breeding. This means that farmers in the Philippines, Bangladesh, India, Indonesia and Vietnam can maintain the advantages of the cultivars they’ve been growing, improving via conventional methods and eating for years."
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Old 21st November 2019, 04:44 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Looks like a little funding from the dairy industry found it's way into that study..

Not saying I have a problem with it, but those things should be known..

I think that Arne Astrup accepts funding from everybody who is willing to pay for studies about nutrition, obesity and/or exercise. At one point, he was doing a study paid for by Coca Cola ® while at the same time denouncing sugar-filled soft drinks!
He has often helped the Danish skeptics, e.g. in 2015 when I wrote an article about Danish breatharians and he offered to have them tested, free of charge, at the University of Copenhagen! (If the Coca Cola study was ever published, it hasn't come to my attention!)

Quote:
Ja, jeg tilbyder en gratis test i vores kalorimetre, hvor man får mulighed for at vise at man ikke er i en negativ energi- og fedtbalance, alt i vores 3-stjernede faciliteter på NEXS på Frederiksberg:
Arne Astrup,
Institutleder, professor, dr.med.
Institut for Idræt og Ernæring,
Det Natur- og Biovidenskabelige Fakultet, Københavns Universitet.
Leve af lys-kulten – anno 2015 (Skeptica, Sep. 24, 2015

I guess I don't have to add that the breatharians never accepted his kind offer. Not a single one of them!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 21st November 2019, 04:56 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Matrix is the word I've been looking for.

What is the food matrix? (HIIP Nutritional Fitness, Feb. 15, 2018)
The food matrix: implications in processing, and health (PubMed, Sep. 10, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st November 2019, 01:23 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Saw your post from earlier, and it started my gears grinding.

You'll get into this.

...
Indeed..

It sounds like golden rice meets an essential need where vit A supplementation would be beneficial...

Now, what other nutritional deficiencies exist in the demographic where golden rice would do the most good?
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Old 21st November 2019, 01:38 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
What is the food matrix? (HIIP Nutritional Fitness, Feb. 15, 2018)
The food matrix: implications in processing, and health (PubMed, Sep. 10, 2018)
Food matrix, sure. But I wanted it for genotype/phenotype discussions.

If you can open this link, it is a Promethease matrix of the woman founder of 23&Me' or google or such. It looks like a solar system. Gene snps are green, diseases purple, and published articles are black. She has 7 "diabetes genes". That one is for the disease of Diabetes. You can also look for a gene,and see what various disease it is related to- much commonality there.
https://files.snpedia.com/reports/pr...el_v4_ui2.html[url]


( nuts. didn't go to the graph, only to her Promethease file. Go to the right, scroll down to Diseases, type in Diabetes Mellitus, scroll down to one with (10), click that, go to top write, click graph. That will be a T1 centric graph. Note the othere immune diseases on there, genes in common. )

Other people will show more snps. IIRC, my own graph for coronary heart disease showed 22 snps. With loads of them hooked to other diseases, the inter-relationships are boggling. No longer a solar system, more like a galaxy.

(is there a better name if the inter-relation of data? Matrix is the word I couldn't remember, but there may be a name for that particular type of graph)
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Old 21st November 2019, 08:31 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Indeed..

It sounds like golden rice meets an essential need where vit A supplementation would be beneficial...

Now, what other nutritional deficiencies exist in the demographic where golden rice would do the most good?
That sounds like something I was subconsciously on a mission of discussing more to let many people know.

Not sure it's quite reached my instant recall abilities yet, but I do know I've read of things.

I've got a friend who's a plant microbiologist from east Africa, and is writing up his thesis on tests he's been doing. Must ask that particular question.
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Old 21st November 2019, 11:35 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
(is there a better name if the inter-relation of data? Matrix is the word I couldn't remember, but there may be a name for that particular type of graph)

Is it a kind of factor analysis (Wiki)?
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:44 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Yeah, because it does make sense. Not JUST 'D', not JUST calcium, nor JUST the probiotics of the cheese, but that there is a synergistic effect of all three.

Matrix is the word I've been looking for. Few diseases are monogenic. Those are "RARE' diseases. The rest of our health problems are caused by a Matrix of genes. Just like our recent thread about how there is NOT one "gay gene". Then toss in a co-matrix of environmental factors.

See why I "Eagerly await our AI Overlords" ?
Cool link to the Promethease report anyway.

"is there a better name if the inter-relation of data?"

Probably not, "metabolomics" but that's a nice subject I looked into last year with some similarities.

I'm liking a cybersecurity wiz's mention I saw this week on Twitter of the "entanglement" of data, environment, biology, psychology, politics, and so much else.

Again, not what you were thinking of, but wanted to say something about this interconnectedness.

Seems to be a Baader Meinhof Phenomenon I've got going, or science/the zeitgeist does.

If this was Twitter or IG I'd tag #SDGs #CircularEconomy #SystemsChange to round things off.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 08:06 AM   #263
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The chart design seems to be closest to a "bubble diagram showing spacial relationships" but it us interactive. I was hoping some one in the resident brain trust would know how to copy& paste one from proemthease. But here is one:

https://www.edrawsoft.com/templates/...lationship.png
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Old 22nd November 2019, 08:10 AM   #264
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"An interactive bubble chart showing the entanglement of genotype and phenotype, with footnotes" ?

Add in environmental factors and you can see why I eagerly await AI.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 08:56 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
(is there a better name if the inter-relation of data? Matrix is the word I couldn't remember, but there may be a name for that particular type of graph)

I think that you will find these two articles interesting:

Quote:
“The effects of dairy foods such as yogurt and cheese on body composition, diabetes and CVD risks can be attributed to the food matrix with the interaction of nutrients including protein, calcium, SCFA (short chain fatty acids) from fermentation, and perhaps peptides and phospholipids.The effects are different to what would be expected solely on the basis of the nutritional content. Cheese is a good example, despite its saturated fat and salt content, the majority of studies report that cheese consumption does not increase the risk of CVD and may, in fact, be beneficial. A diet including yogurt and cheese, in reasonable quantities, should be recommended for everyone to prevent and manage type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease. The low-fat version of these dairy foods might by helpful for non-diabetic overweight and obese individuals, whereas emerging evidence suggests the full-fat versions are optimal for people who already have type 2 diabetes.”
« Beyond nutrients: health effects of the dairy matrix » (European Society for Clinical Nutrition and Metabolism, Sep. 6, 2018)

Notice that it seems to be not just a question of the combination of nutritional elements but also of the size and shape of molecules:

Quote:
“Yogurt and cheese do not exert the detrimental effects on blood lipids and blood pressure as previously predicted by its sodium and saturated fat content. Dairy, in particular full-fat, exerts beneficial effects on LDL-cholesterol, blood pressure and postprandial triglycerides,” he added. Observational studies also support that full-fat yogurt and cheese may protect from cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, as well as osteopaenia and osteoporotic fractures, he told the audience.
These effects are due to the relatively recently-discovered phenomenon of the ‘food matrix’, and its impacts are particularly stark when it comes to dairy products. Yet this is counterintuitive at best, and unbelievable at worst, as it flies in the face of all dietary advice produced since the middle of the last century. The thinking behind the food matrix is that the nutritional value of a food is not limited to the sum of its nutrients, but varies according to the structure of the food, the nutrients, the matrix and interactions with other components in the food.
(…)
The reality, said Prof Astrup, is that it’s more complex than simply looking at blood-saturated fats.
“For example, the impact on LDL-C particle size, HDL-C and functionality, and other mediators for the atherosclerotic process should be taken into account. Some food components, for example, have an impact on how the saturated fat affects cholesterol in the blood.”
Observational studies also support that full-fat yogurt and cheese may protect from cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, as well as osteopaenia and osteoporotic fractures, he told the audience
(…)
Even the term ‘saturated fat’ is merely a catch-all, added Prof Astrup.
“If you think about saturated fat, it is essentially many different saturated fatty acids — short-chain, medium-chain, and long-chain — everyone working in biochemistry agrees that they have completely different effects on the body,” he continued.
“For example, if you take saturated fat in dark chocolate, you have stearic acid. It is also a saturated fat, but it doesn’t have the same effect as if you take palmitic acid found in meat and other products. There are so many different biological effects.”
Navigating the ‘food matrix’ (Medical Independent, July 2, 2019)
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Old 22nd November 2019, 10:31 AM   #266
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Okay, I took a screen shot. This graph is frm the Lily Mendel sample, 'diseases', heart diseases. 55 gene snps, those are rs numbers. (my own kit hoas 62) You can see that the big pink rs1800629 is connected to all sorts of grief.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_2019-11-22 Screenshot.jpg (18.8 KB, 7 views)
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Old 23rd November 2019, 11:33 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
"An interactive bubble chart showing the entanglement of genotype and phenotype, with footnotes" ?

Add in environmental factors and you can see why I eagerly await AI.
Nice.

Yes, the "entanglement" is lovely. Bit hard to see the connecting lines in the screenshot. But I really agree it's fascinating.


Here's another example - an interactive "diagram".

I think this music search site is very, very cool and I'd love to see it done with genetics, disease, environment etc.

http://www.liveplasma.com/
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Old 23rd November 2019, 11:54 PM   #268
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I'll try not to let this thought turn into a derail...

Speaking of AI, there's this new from today:

We Teach A.I. Systems Everything, Including Our Biases

"BERT, (new Google AI technology) which is now being deployed in services like Google’s internet search engine, has a problem: It could be picking up on biases in the way a child mimics the bad behavior of his parents."

I'll hide my convoluted thought process.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/11/t...ence-bias.html

If you can't view that, this is the blog post it references:

https://medium.com/@robert.munro/bia...i-3ea569f79d6a

Cause of bias #1 "The algorithms are trained on data with gender imbalances"

Cause of bias #2 "if you train a Machine Learning model on a narrow genre/domain of data, it will struggle with accuracy outside of those examples."

Cause of bias #3: The datasets are not correctly labeled

See my post in the Thunberg thread, about Italy making Climate Change compulsory at school.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/...ry-in-schools/

Quote:
Italy will next year become the world’s first country to make it compulsory for schoolchildren to study climate change and sustainable development, Education Minister Lorenzo Fioramonti said.

'In an interview in his Rome office, Fioramonti said all state schools would dedicate 33 hours per year, almost one hour per school week, to climate change issues from the start of the next academic year in September.

"Many traditional subjects, such as geography, mathematics and physics, would also be studied from the perspective of sustainable development, said the minister, a former economics professor at South Africa’s Pretoria University."

To round that off, entanglement needs to be taught from the perspective of entanglement.



Thus, obesity and genetics are related to world food production, distribution, consumption, sustainable development, and the UN's 2030 sustainable development goals.

The entanglement of genetics and epigenetics of the biosphere.
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Old 24th November 2019, 03:46 AM   #269
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The Global Obesity Epidemic

I don't know where the line between lactose moderation and excess are, but my stomach does.
Ow.

Seems to be where I have something I have no alternative to eat apart from going hungry.

It's even mildly bad when I have powdered coffee whitener daily, which I've done for years.u

Big Dairy, something something something.

Oh, but I saw 718 dairy farms closed in Wisconsin this year. Curious.
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Old 24th November 2019, 06:54 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I don't know where the line between lactose moderation and excess are, but my stomach does.
Ow.

Seems to be where I have something I have no alternative to eat apart from going hungry.

It's even mildly bad when I have powdered coffee whitener daily, which I've done for years.u

Big Dairy, something something something.

Oh, but I saw 718 dairy farms closed in Wisconsin this year. Curious.
Isn't your coffee whitener non-dairy? If so, you may have a fat or protein prob-you can be allergic to casein.
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Old 25th November 2019, 01:53 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Isn't your coffee whitener non-dairy? If so, you may have a fat or protein prob-you can be allergic to casein.
Interesting. Thanks. No, the whitener contains milk solids.

And ow, such a gurgly stomach still!

I should probably stop eating chocolate too. Had a few bits today.

I must check my MFP logs to see when I gave up chocolate for a while.

I remember saying to a friend on a walk that my digestion was fantastic because I was eating fruit for snacks, and wonder if that was when I was off the chocolate.

I'd given up the chocolate in order to have no caffeine intake, since I enjoy not drinking any beverages with caffeine, and when I tried cacao nibs, they knocked me around.

I'm turning into one of those annoyingly *difficult* eaters!!!
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Old 25th November 2019, 06:05 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Interesting. Thanks. No, the whitener contains milk solids.

And ow, such a gurgly stomach still!

I should probably stop eating chocolate too. Had a few bits today.

I must check my MFP logs to see when I gave up chocolate for a while.

I remember saying to a friend on a walk that my digestion was fantastic because I was eating fruit for snacks, and wonder if that was when I was off the chocolate.

I'd given up the chocolate in order to have no caffeine intake, since I enjoy not drinking any beverages with caffeine, and when I tried cacao nibs, they knocked me around.

I'm turning into one of those annoyingly *difficult* eaters!!!
A Bil has issues with the artificial chocolate. I didn't know there was such a thing. Dunno how to read it on package labels. Perhaps "chocolate flavoring"?
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Old 25th November 2019, 06:09 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I'd given up the chocolate in order to have no caffeine intake, since I enjoy not drinking any beverages with caffeine, and when I tried cacao nibs, they knocked me around.

It probably still contains caffeine, but there can't be room for any milk, I think: Lindt 99%.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 25th November 2019, 06:18 AM   #274
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Back to the obesity epidemic: We are the champions! - probably due to the trans-fat ban in 2004:
Denmark has the lowest number of obese people in the EU (DR.dk, Nov. 23, 2019)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th November 2019, 07:17 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Back to the obesity epidemic: We are the champions! - probably due to the trans-fat ban in 2004:
Denmark has the lowest number of obese people in the EU (DR.dk, Nov. 23, 2019)
Cool. And I think the trans-fat ban is a great thing. Should be done elsewhere as well.
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Old 26th November 2019, 01:13 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It probably still contains caffeine, but there can't be room for any milk, I think: Lindt 99%.
Yes, cacao nibs contain caffeine, and other (obscure to me) stimulants.

It was the caffeine that knocked me around, not any milk, of which there was none.

I had less than 5g of nibs. Been a year since I gave up caffeine, nearly 2 years without alcohol.

The natural highs of being healthy are wonderful.

Those external stimulated highs and subsequent lows are not nice when you're aware of the difference, and used to the feeling of being normal and well nearly all the time.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Back to the obesity epidemic: We are the champions! - probably due to the trans-fat ban in 2004:
Denmark has the lowest number of obese people in the EU (DR.dk, Nov. 23, 2019)
Denmark is a rat park.

Social services, childcare, welfare, cities, and levels of activity are far far better than places like most of the US.

The trans fats ban would be only one reason when those factors are taken into account, though related to a country/Scandinavia-wide zeitgeist that implements healthy policies. Yes, I do know common, highly palatable, calorie-dense foods can contain trans fats.

(I must point out that you seemed to think a while back that I didn't know trans fats are bad. Underestimating me in another way I didn't mention earlier.)

You've now mentioned them a few times. What is your personal direct experience of trans fats if you now bring them up again?
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Old 26th November 2019, 02:04 AM   #277
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I only brought up trans fats again because they were in the news. (And I should have added that the Danes aren't even European champions. The Swiss are, I think, but they aren't in the EU. And they don't come anywhere near Southeast Asians!)

Other causes for Denmark's position in the EU were mentioned in the article:

Quote:
We have retained some healthy dietary options such as rye bread and oatmeal. And relatively many of us live in urban communities that encourage cycling, walking and moving in general.
We also have taxes on sugar and soft drinks - and actual bans on unhealthy food.
Among other things, we were the first country in the world to prohibit trans fatty acids by law in 2004. That seems to play a certain role, says Arne Astrup.
There was a significant drop in the number of both obese and cardiovascular patients in the years after the ban went into effect, the professor said.
Denmark has the lowest number of obese people in the EU (DR.dk, Nov. 23, 2019

Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Cool. And I think the trans-fat ban is a great thing. Should be done elsewhere as well.

The WHO is trying to do just that: WHO plan to eliminate industrially-produced trans-fatty acids from global food supply (WHO, May 14, 2018).

In the meantime, Healthline seems to be a pretty reliable source of information about trans fats and health in general: 7 Foods That Still Contain Trans Fats (Healthline, Oct, 29, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:38 AM   #278
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This is shocking!

The Guardian, Nov. 20, 2019:
The food deserts of Memphis: inside America's hunger capital | Divided Cities (13 min.):
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

"In the wealthiest part of greater Memphis, people live 13 years longer on average than in the poorest"
"When grocery store operators look at: Can they make money? The answer from their perspective is: possibly but probably not."
"The gap between the quality of rich and poor Americans' diets has widened over the past two decades."

By the way, if you look at the highlighted sentence, the same difference can be found in a major city in Denmark:
Quote:
If you live in Aalborg East, your life is 13 years shorter on average than if you live in the wealthier neighborhood of Hasseris seven kilometers away.
In Aalborg East, on average they die as early as in Pakistan (DR.dk, May 22, 2016)
Documentary (in Danish): A Sick Difference.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 28th November 2019, 06:41 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
This is shocking!

The Guardian, Nov. 20, 2019:
The food deserts of Memphis: inside America's hunger capital | Divided Cities (13 min.):
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

"In the wealthiest part of greater Memphis, people live 13 years longer on average than in the poorest"
"When grocery store operators look at: Can they make money? The answer from their perspective is: possibly but probably not."
"The gap between the quality of rich and poor Americans' diets has widened over the past two decades."

By the way, if you look at the highlighted sentence, the same difference can be found in a major city in Denmark:

Documentary (in Danish): A Sick Difference.
+

Is it a difference in diet? Is diet the only difference, not with some social or genetic difference ?

Do poor people the world over eat less REAL cheese?
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Old 28th November 2019, 09:25 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Is it a difference in diet? Is diet the only difference, not with some social or genetic difference ?
The article claims that "you get these lifestyle diseases because you eat and live more unhealthy, exercise less and consume more alcohol."
But take a look at the graphs that accompany the article:
uddannelse: education
økonomi: (personal) finances
disponibel indkomst: earnings after tax has been deducted

It doesn't mention genetics at all.

Quote:
Do poor people the world over eat less REAL cheese?

Some people don't eat any cheese at all, East Asians, for instance, and they seem to be doing better than the rest of us. But I'm pretty sure that they don't eat much fancy cheese on the wrong side of Memphis or Aalborg!


This is not related to the article, but you might be interested in this speech by Arne Astrup about carbohydrates, satiety, diabetes, insulin resistance, the blood-sugar diet etc. Many intersting illustrations:
EFAD Webinar- Oats and the Microbiome: Potential Link For Metabolic Health? (Nov. 26, 2019)
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I AGREE
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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